Mac mini alternatives (macOS in VM on Apple and non-Apple hardware)

[leo-tech]

I realize at least one company has attempted this before, but...

I'd like to see an established PC manufacturer put together what tonymac86's site calls "a golden build" -- that is, a compilation of components that are "as compatible with the Mac OS as it gets".
...

What you are saying makes perfect sense, but still there is one more important option, which is, sadly, neglected or underestimated by many - namely macOS in VM - where users are considerably less restricted by their specific hardware choices.

As I recall, earlier Apple went to great lengths to accommodate Windows on Macintosh hardware (using Boot Camp), also there are no restrictions whatsoever for those Macintosh users willing to use VMs, where they are free to run any flavors of Windows and Linux in addition to their host macOS.

But, where it would be perfectly logical and proper for Apple to allow the very same thing for PC users other way around, i.e. the ability to run macOS in VM under Windows or Linux host OS - suddenly it was not equally and reciprocally OK, hence that restrictive, illogical and plain wrong Apple attitude and EULA (their "do as I say, not as I do" approach, which I can't help but see as a serious violation of the Golden Rule and common sense, hidden in plain sight).

 

[krause734]

I switched to an Intel NUC 7i3 w/ Samsung 960 SSD and 8GB RAM. Should've done it a while ago. Linux Mint is very simple and clean. I probably won't be coming back to Apple whenever they manage to update their standalone desktops.

 

[leo-tech]

Intel brings hexa-core chips to laptops with Coffee Lake-H

Intel’s latest chips for high-performance laptops offer more CPU cores, higher clock speeds, and higher… model numbers.

For the first time Intel is offering 6-core, 12-thread chips for laptops. And for the first time the company will use the Intel Core i9 name for some of its highest-performance mobile chips.

Meet the Intel Coffee Lake-H product family.

As the name suggests, the new chips are based on the same 14nm++ architecture as Intel’s Coffee Lake chips for desktops. These 45 watt processors offer more performance and consume more power than the 15 watt, quad-core Kaby Lake Refresh chips Intel launched last year. But the company says despite their differences, both are part of its 8th-gen Core processor lineup. Go figure..

 

[Cape Dave]

I switched to an Intel NUC 7i3 w/ Samsung 960 SSD and 8GB RAM. Should've done it a while ago. Linux Mint is very simple and clean. I probably won't be coming back to Apple whenever they manage to update their standalone desktops.

That is my go to hard drive. Wicked awesome.

 

[ActionableMango]

But, where it would be perfectly logical and proper for Apple to allow the very same thing for PC users other way around, i.e. the ability to run macOS in VM under Windows or Linux host OS - suddenly it was not equally and reciprocally OK, hence that restrictive, illogical and plain wrong Apple attitude and EULA (their "do as I say, not as I do" approach, which I can't help but see as a serious violation of the Golden Rule and common sense, hidden in plain sight).

It seems completely 100% logical to me.

Windows 10 costs money. Every computer that it gets installed on means more money for Microsoft, so they are motivated for it to work everywhere.

MacOS is free. Apple gets their MacOS investment back because it only works with Mac hardware, which makes them money. Every computer that MacOS gets installed on that's not a Mac means (A) no money for Apple, or even worse, (B) a lost sale for Apple.

 

[leo-tech]

It seems completely 100% logical to me.

Windows 10 costs money. Every computer that it gets installed on means more money for Microsoft, so they are motivated for it to work everywhere.

MacOS is free. Apple gets their MacOS investment back because it only works with Mac hardware, which makes them money. Every computer that MacOS gets installed on that's not a Mac means (A) no money for Apple, or even worse, (B) a lost sale for Apple.

I think something is very wrong with this picture, where the monopolist computer company called Apple gets what it wants, and not the customers.

I would be more than happy to buy a suitable Macintosh model and avoid all this hassle of making macOS work in some other way, on some other non-Apple hardware and all that.

The trouble is that as of this moment no suitable Macintosh model I would consider buying is available on the market, hence my search for some Mac Mini alternative.

And that one way traffic on the side of Apple (hey, let's allow everyone to install Windows on Macintosh! .. what, the other way around, macOS on PC? oh no-no-no!) is still so creepy, whatever the rationalization behind it.

 

[ActionableMango]

I think something is very wrong with this picture, where the monopolist computer company called Apple gets what it wants, and not the customers.

Monopoly? Apple's computer market share is something like 7%, and I just switched from a Mac Pro to a Windows PC a few months ago. Having a tiny market share and easily switching to a competitor are not the hallmarks of a monopolistic computer company. Quite the opposite.

 

[leo-tech]

Some good news for a change, I was able to install macOS Sierra as guest OS in a VM (Linux Mint 18.3, VMware Workstation 14 Pro, Intel NUC i7 4c/8t 32gb), then I upgraded it to High Sierra, so far everything looks good, naturally with a few limitations, but in general I am pleasantly surprised how solid and stable this V-Hackintosh looks and feels.

Then this question crossed my mind, let's speculate for a moment: what would really happen, if say Apple suddenly changed their EULA and allowed PC users to run macOS in a Virtual Machine?

Would it undermine Apple in some ways - or, quite to the contrary (as I suspect), create considerably more Apple Macintosh users and customers instead?

 

[Boyd01]

IMO that will never happen, if anything they are moving towards locking it down even more. And they are not interested in creating more MacOS users, they want customers to purchase Macintosh computers.

 

[clearer]

Some good news for a change, I was able to install macOS Sierra as guest OS in a VM (Linux Mint 18.3, VMware Workstation 14 Pro, Intel NUC i7 4c/8t 32gb), then I upgraded it to High Sierra, so far everything looks good, naturally with a few limitations, but in general I am pleasantly surprised how solid and stable this V-Hackintosh looks and feels.

Then this question crossed my mind, let's speculate for a moment: what would really happen, if say Apple suddenly changed their EULA and allowed PC users to run macOS in a Virtual Machine?

Would it undermine Apple in some ways - or, quite to the contrary (as I suspect), create considerably more Apple Macintosh users and customers instead?

I suspect Apple would benefit greatly. I don't know any way to properly develop software for macOS or iOS without XCode and thus macOS -- this is the reason why I have a mac at all (a macmini 1,1 that I was gifted and then upgraded). If macOS was made more available, it would also make it a lot cheaper and easier for developers to produce software for mac. The alternative is to make XCode available outside of macOS, which I doubt will happen.

The whole argument about needing to support too many different combination of hardware in order to go the Windows route and licensing the operating system to other vendors is a bit of a broken record. Apple already supports a *very* wide range of options with a lot of different chipsets, processors, graphics cards and what not. In the end the only major difference is the motherboard and graphics cards. Print a list of supported chipsets and gpus and tell people to take a hike if they try to run the OS on anything else.

 

[jeyf]

just a rumor but Dell was or is looking at VMWare Inc.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

just a rumor but Dell was or is looking at VMWare Inc.

dell owns them.

 

[leo-tech]

A new book, covering Google, Amazon, Facebook and Apple:
Matt Ward - Gods of the Valley: How Today's Tech Giants Monopolize the Future Paperback (2018)

Please note: the Macintosh part of Apple business was not even mentioned (at first glance, anyway)

[doublepost=1531140068][/doublepost]

just a rumor but Dell was or is looking at VMWare Inc.
...
dell owns them

Dell owns 80% of VMware, a publicly traded software virtualization company that Dell acquired when it purchased EMC for $67 billion in 2015...

 

[BornAgainMac]

If there’s anything Apple is great at, it’s making consumer electronics that are as much painful brain teasers as they are objects of desire. — I performed open heart surgery on my Mac mini, and it was horrifying

I have been wanting to upgrade my Mac Mini 2012 to 4 TB of Flash storage and call it my Mac Mini 2018 but I am dreading taking my Mac Mini apart even with the videos online that show step by step how to do it and have the proper tools. It is like going to the dentist for major dental work.

Apple should make it so the the top of the mini opens up without any tools and you have easy access to replace the memory and hard drive and clean the dust out.

 

[jeyf]

so th

I have been wanting to upgrade my Mac Mini 2012 to 4 TB of Flash storage and call it my Mac Mini 2018 but I am dreading taking my Mac Mini apart even with the videos online that show step by step how to do it and have the proper tools. It is like going to the dentist...

2012 was a long time ago.

 

[leo-tech]

Monopoly? Apple's computer market share is something like 7%, and I just switched from a Mac Pro to a Windows PC a few months ago. Having a tiny market share and easily switching to a competitor are not the hallmarks of a monopolistic computer company. Quite the opposite.

I meant of course that Apple has a monopoly on both Macintosh computers (hardware) and macOS (the main compatible operating system - please note that Macintosh computers are also Windows and Linux-compatible).

I wouldn't go as a far as to suggest that Apple should make macOS compatible with any PC hardware under the sun (same as Windows) - only on Virtual Machines (for Apple to be equally polite, as everybody and his dog can run Windows and Linux in VMs in various hypervisors under macOS already, if they so desire, with full Apple blessing, endorsement and support - so why not the other way around).

So, my earlier speculative question still stands: what would really happen, if say Apple suddenly changed their EULA to allow PC users to run macOS in a Virtual Machine?

 

[Boyd01]

what would really happen, if say Apple suddenly changed their EULA and allowed PC users to run macOS on a Virtual Machine?

Hell would freeze over?

 

[Yvan256]

2012 was a long time ago.

It was only six years ago. And in Apple terms, it's only the previous Mac mini generation.

They could have (really) upgraded the Mac mini two or three times since then, but they decided to nerf the Mac mini in 2014 instead.

 

[leo-tech]

Hell would freeze over?

Yes, I know...

But, apart from that - just think for a moment, what a unique and easy opportunity to create so many new Macintosh users Apple may have consciously chosen to ignore or miss. And it's not like Apple also cannot profit on the way from 3rd party hypervisor sales (I guess they can also design their own hypervisor, it should be easier to accomplish compared to developing and producing their own ARM-processors) and end user macOS-in-VM license fees. Whichever way one may look at this apparent anomaly, something simply does not add up here.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Hell would freeze over?

maybe macos server only and $199-$599. But they should of done that when they killed x-serve

 

[leo-tech]

HP updates its Z line of entry-level workstations with Xeon E options (and more)

HP is updating its line of entry-level workstation computes with four new models, including the HP Z2 Tower, HP Z2 Small Form Factor, and HP Z2 Mini, along with the EliteDesk 800 Workstation Edition.

The smallest of the bunch is the HP Z2 Mini G4, which is an update to the Z2 Mini Workstation that launched a few years ago.

The new model is the same 8.5″ x 8.5″ x 2.3″ size as its predecessor, but under the hood it packs a lot more power, with up to NVIDIA Quadro P1000 graphics, up to an Intel Xeon E-2176G processor, and up to 32GB of DDR4-2400 memory.

The little computer has room for a 2.5" drive and an M.2 NVME 2280 SSD and features a USB 3.1 Gen-2 Type-C port, four USB 3.0 ports, Ethernet, DisplayPort, and a headset jack and two SODIMM slots.

The HP Z2 Mini G4 supports 802.11ac WiFi and Bluetooth 5.0 and in comes with a bunch of processor and graphics options including Intel Pentium Gold through Xeon E chips and a choice of AMD or NVIDIA graphics...

...

HP Z2 Mini G4 Workstation - Quick Specs - 17-Jul-2018

 

[Miat]

Nice.

Serious competition for Apple. I approve.

 

[imrazor]

HP Z2 Mini G4

So it ships with a PowerPC G4??

Just kidding...

 

[leo-tech]

Intel’s Coffee Lake NUC mini PCs shipping in September...

Intel’s new “Bean Canyon” NUC computers are tiny desktop PCs powered by 28 watt Intel Coffee Lake processors with Intel Iris Plus 655 graphics.

If you don’t count the Intel “Skull Canyon” and “Hades Canyon” NUCs, which are larger models aimed at gamers, the new Bean Canyon systems are the most powerful NUC mini computers to date.

Intel started talking about the little PCs earlier this year, and the company revealed detailed specifications last week. Now the first Bean Canyon systems are up for pre-order, and the folks at distributor SimplyNUC say the computers should begin shipping in mid-September.

According to SimplyNUC, the Core i7 models will be the first to ship. Core i5 and Core i3 models should begin shipping about a month later, in mid-to-late October.

The distributor is already taking pre-orders for pre-configured systems for $490 and up. That starting price gets you a model with an Intel Core i3-8109U processor, 8GB of RAM, and 128GB of solid state storage, but no operating system. You can pay more for a faster processor, Windows 10 Home or Pro, and more RAM or storage.

Or if you already have some of the components you’ll need, you can save some money by picking up a barebones model that doesn’t have any RAM or SSD. Prices start at $274 for a barebones kit with a Core i3 processor...

 

[leo-tech]

So, the new bright and shining Mac Mini 2018 is finally here, the long wait and frustration is over.

As many other Mac Mini users, I'm planning to buy one in the near future too, it's going to be fun!

However, at the same time I remain a strong proponent and supporter of Apple one day altering its EULA and making it legal to run macOS in VMs (Virtual Machines) on other computing platforms, Windows and Linux.

Fact: Apple is in favor of allowing Macintosh users to run Windows and Linux on Macintosh computers (one OS at a time using Boot Camp, and multi-OS using VMs) - but in a sane, reasonable and fair world it's supposed to work both ways, not only one skewed way it favors the Macintosh/macOS monopolist Apple.