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Mac mini alternatives (macOS in VM on Apple and non-Apple hardware)

leo-tech said:
in a sane, reasonable and fair world it's supposed to work both ways, not only one skewed way it favors the Macintosh/macOS monopolist Apple.
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You're wanting Apple to completely change their business model as it relates to OS and hardware?

Don't hold your breath on that one.
 
You're wanting Apple to completely change their business model as it relates to OS and hardware?
Click to expand...
Well, I would not go as far as to suggest that...also I did not in any way imply that Apple should re-design macOS for users to be able to install and run macOS direct on the existing PC hardware.

Earlier, I asked a reasonable question: what exactly would happen, if Apple modified their EULA to allow users to run macOS in Virtual Machines only?

I have reasons to believe such a move would massively benefit Apple by creating many potential Macintosh users, and I honestly cannot see any downside.

Is there any downside worth considering as such, really?
 
leo-tech said:
Earlier, I asked a reasonable question: what exactly would happen, if Apple modified their EULA to allow users to run macOS in Virtual Machines only?
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I'd anticipate a of people would install a stripped down W10 install and just boot up virtualbox or similar, running macos full screen as their primary environment. Particularly in the desktop space.

Two risks to Apple: (1) the above works so well that a chunk of the market no longer feels the need to buy Macintosh hardware or (2) the above creates a sufficiently poor experience for some portion of potential switchers (due to subpar hardware, misconfiguration, etc) that they think macos is crap -- when in fact it's their hw/config/etc and not Apple's fault.

Sure it's a fun idea for Apple to allow macOS to run in a VM on non-Apple hardware... but I don't see any real upside to them for doing so other than to make a handful of tinkerers happy, and I see plenty of potential downside.

That's just *my* assessment. You don't need to agree.
 
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Return of the ruinous Mac Clones in spirit.

But seriously, the price of MacOS is included in Apple's hardware. Even if we ignore quality issues letting people freely install MacOS on a virtual hackintosh is a financial loss to Apple unless they make more net per user off the App Store than per hardware unit.

The standard MacOS will never have an EULA to allow Virtual Machine use unless said EULA permitted only virtual machine use on genuine apple hardware. Since the point of a virtual box is to abstract the underlying hardware that isn't going to happen.

At best Apple might sell a MacOS Server/VM edition for Virtual Machine use, and charge you for the privilege just like Microsoft charges for Windows licenses, but Apple is going to charge more for their superior OS and how many people would pay $200+?
 
deeddawg said:
I'd anticipate a of people would install a stripped down W10 install and just boot up virtualbox or similar, running macos full screen as their primary environment. Particularly in the desktop space.

Two risks to Apple: (1) the above works so well that a chunk of the market no longer feels the need to buy Macintosh hardware or (2) the above creates a sufficiently poor experience for some portion of potential switchers (due to subpar hardware, misconfiguration, etc) that they think macos is crap -- when in fact it's their hw/config/etc and not Apple's fault.

Sure it's a fun idea for Apple to allow macOS to run in a VM on non-Apple hardware... but I don't see any real upside to them for doing so other than to make a handful of tinkerers happy, and I see plenty of potential downside.

That's just *my* assessment. You don't need to agree.
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well maybe if they did not kill Mac OS X Server they could of may so that yes you can it in say qemu / esxi on any base hardware.
 
leo-tech said:
Well, I would not go as far as to suggest that...also I did not in any way imply that Apple should re-design macOS for users to be able to install and run macOS direct on the existing PC hardware.

Earlier, I asked a reasonable question: what exactly would happen, if Apple modified their EULA to allow users to run macOS in Virtual Machines only?

I have reasons to believe such a move would massively benefit Apple by creating many potential Macintosh users, and I honestly cannot see any downside.

Is there any downside worth considering as such, really?
Click to expand...

Lots of Xcode-developers for iOS would not buy a Mac, esp. in the markets like China where software piracy is extremely high. Also Mac users tend not to buy Apple services.

Who do you think have bought the Mac Mini for the last years? ios-developers who are not Mac or iPhone users, but who only cares about creating iOS apps.

Apples revenue comes from hardware and services. Making MacOS run in virtual machines gets them into the software world where piracy is high and people do not want to pay unless they have to.

Look at Adobe, they increased their revenue a lot when they tied it to a cloud service instead of a software license. Why? Because users had to, the software became unusable without the service.
 
I had MacOS in a VM for a couple months between giving up on a hackintosh and before the new Mini came out.

I had some display issues (my host computer has a 4K monitor) and USB issues. I couldn't sync my iPad or iPhone to iTunes anymore, and some USB drives wouldn't work)

Things are working well again with the Mini.
 
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VirtualBox 6.0 released with improved graphics and hardware support
https://liliputing.com/2018/12/virt...h-improved-graphics-and-hardware-support.html

VirtualBox is a free and open source, cross-platform virtualization utility that works on Windows, Mac, Linux, and other operating systems. Install VirtualBox on your computer and you can use it to run an operating system-within an operating system. For example, I often use it to test Linux distributions on my Windows 10 computer without rebooting.

This week the developers at Oracle released VirtualBox 6.0, and it’s a pretty major update...

https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
 
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Intel NUC7i7DNHE i7 4c/8t ● 32gb memory ● 512gb m.2 NVMe SSD
For comparison: Mac Benchmarks | Mac mini 2018 i7-8700B 6c/12t
 
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I tried OSX in a VM on a Windows host last year. USB was an issue, and I couldn't reliably backup my iPad or iPhone with the OS in the VM. The process was poor enough that it convinced me to buy the Mini. The Mini, so I could share the desk with my Windows computer.
 
hans1972 said:
Lots of Xcode-developers for iOS would not buy a Mac, esp. in the markets like China where software piracy is extremely high. Also Mac users tend not to buy Apple services.

Who do you think have bought the Mac Mini for the last years? ios-developers who are not Mac or iPhone users, but who only cares about creating iOS apps.

Apples revenue comes from hardware and services. Making MacOS run in virtual machines gets them into the software world where piracy is high and people do not want to pay unless they have to.

Look at Adobe, they increased their revenue a lot when they tied it to a cloud service instead of a software license. Why? Because users had to, the software became unusable without the service.
Click to expand...
I don't really know what would be the best course of action for Apple to take into the future. That said, I have been using Apple computers since the early '80s, and the thing I like the most is the stability and easy of use of OS-X. I would like to upgrade from an early 2011 iMac, but at the moment I am at a crossroads. It seems that the recent trend for Apple in relation to the Macintosh is "compactness," not upgradability, nor fulfilling the needs of a lot of customers.

What would I like to see on a Macintosh computer (Mini, for example)?

a. No motherboard-soldered GPU and CPU, SSD, Bluetooth, and so on
b. More room for additional SSDs, and RAM
c. A larger case to allow for optional cooling systems

I was thinking of upgrading to a Mac Mini, but to buy the one I want is just too expensive, and there is no further chance to upgrade it. The only thing that is preventing me from buying a "mini" PC is Mac OS-X.

In my view it is a matter of time before programers create a program that within itself, like a shell, allows for any OS to run flawlessly. If I Mac can run Windows, there will be PCs that can do the same.
 
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In my view it is a matter of time before programers create a program that within itself, like a shell, allows for any OS to run flawlessly. If I Mac can run Windows, there will be PCs that can do the same.
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Such "shells" already exist, they are called "hypervisors" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor

Hypervisor-1 (like, for example, VMware ESXi) installs on bare metal, and Hypervisor-2 (like, for example, Oracle VirtualBox or VMware Workstation or Parallels Desktop) install as program in host operating system (Windows, Linux, macOS).
 
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We may have a little light at end of tunnel. With mobile devices dropping in sales, Apple has hit the limit on pricing, leaving many people out in the cold. Now an opportunity they had walked away from. Making some of the lower priced computer models, i.e., Mac Mini modular for upgrades. Bring more hardware sales to boost the "services' sales that are right now keeping them afloat. They could even sell the upgrade parts to expand on.
 
Intel Bean Canyon NUC review (Intel NUC Kit NUC8i7BEH) | 12/16/2018

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Intel’s NUC line of mini computers have been around for years, offering a combination of compact design and decent performance for situations where you might want the power of a full-fledged PC, but you’d prefer if it didn’t take up a lot of space.

For the most part, Intel NUC computers feature laptop-class hardware. But laptop-class hardware has gotten pretty powerful in recent years, and the company’s new “Bean Canyon” NUC lineup are the first to feature 28 watt, 8th-gen Intel Core processors featuring Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655...

Some related information:

Intel NUC Kit NUC8i7BEH
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits/nuc8i7beh.html

Intel Core i7-8559U Processor | 8M Cache, up to 4.50 GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/137979/Intel-Core-i7-8559U-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4-50-GHz-

Geekbench processor benchmarks
https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks
 
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