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Another 8-Core Intel Xeon E5 SKUs.

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http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-8core-sandy-bridgeep-processors-have-150w-tdp-/
 
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Just wondering, wouldn't the next Mac Pro update be with Ivy Bridge, and not Sandy Bridge? :confused:
 
Sandy Bridge Xeon is not even out yet. There is a logical progression. Unless you are being funny because of the delay's getting the Pro parts to market. The 2600K is a consumer grade proc and Intel has plenty more plans for SB (unless that changes of course who knows these day's)
 
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derbothaus said:
Sandy Bridge Xeon is not even out yet. There is a logical progression. Unless you are being funny because of the delay's getting the Pro parts to market. The 2600K is a consumer grade proc and Intel has plenty more plans for SB (unless that changes of course who knows these day's)

No, I'm being serious. I guess I didn't notice the 'E' in the title. :eek:
 
So Q4 is anytime between start of October and end of December....?

If Apple were to get the chips slightly early, would September be a possibility?
 
So Q4 is anytime between start of October and end of December....?

Yes.

If Apple were to get the chips slightly early, would September be a possibility?

Depends when the CPUs will be released. If it's early October, then September is possible but if it's closer to the end of Q4 (or 2012 like some rumors suggest), then September is fairly unlikely.
 
like most people, i just want to know when they'll be released. been waiting too long for this :)
 
theoratically speaking Apple could release a SP MP, right? as far as I'm concerned those SB xeons (SP) are already out in the wild...?!


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like most people, i just want to know when they'll be released. been waiting too long for this :)

Me too, I've got the cash ready to go.

I want a machine with Thunderbolt, but I want to leave the door open for some customisation down the road (new GPU, SSD etc).

That confines me to the Mac Pro, as the iMac is a PITA to upgrade later (GPU upgrade not even possible).

To be honest, I don't need 8 cores, or even 6 for that matter. But what I do want/need is the expandability offered by the Mac Pro. I've been using an early 2008 iMac for over 2 years now, and the 8800GS in it can't really keep up with the latest games and is a bit long in the tooth. I thought about dropping an SSD in it like I did my MBP, but theres too much unnecessary risk and stuffing around involved.

It would be really nice of Apple to bring out the fabled "headless iMac" with the same relative specs (i7, decent video card) but with the expandability of the Mac Pro.

But until that happens, I guess I'll have to spend the extra money.
 
theoratically speaking Apple could release a SP MP, right? as far as I'm concerned those SB xeons (SP) are already out in the wild...?!
What's out now (LGA1155) are the wrong socket than what is suitable for a Mac Pro (LGA2011, which isn't out yet). Nor does LGA1155 have enough PCIe lanes for a high-end workstation.
 
Why your guy think Quad-core E5-1620 will be processor for low-end mac pro?

IMO, The performance gap between i7-2600 (27" iMac) i7 and E5-1620 is little as it clocks (3.4 vs 3.6). so i think the hex-core E5-1650 more suitable as processor for low-end mac pro.
 
What's out now (LGA1155) are the wrong socket than what is suitable for a Mac Pro (LGA2011, which isn't out yet). Nor does LGA1155 have enough PCIe lanes for a high-end workstation.

forgive me if im about to ask a stupid question :) but what about Z68? not enough PCIe for an entry/mid level workstation?


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Why your guy think Quad-core E5-1620 will be processor for low-end mac pro?

IMO, The performance gap between i7-2600 (27" iMac) i7 and E5-1620 is little as it clocks (3.4 vs 3.6). so i think the hex-core E5-1650 more suitable as processor for low-end mac pro.

6-cores are too expensive. If you look at what the situation was a year ago, iMac had as fast CPU as the Pro, even though both were just updated.

forgive me if im about to ask a stupid question :) but what about Z68? not enough PCIe for an entry/mid level workstation?


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PCIe lanes are provided by the CPU, thus the chipset won't matter. Z68 provides as many lanes as P67 or H67.
 
forgive me if im about to ask a stupid question :) but what about Z68? not enough PCIe for an entry/mid level workstation?
It only has 16x PCIe lanes on the CPU and another 8x on the Z68 (grand total of 24x lanes).

So that's a whopping single 16x slot for a dedicated GPU, and say a pair of 4x slots (other configurations possible as well). But there is a limit as to bandwidth for those additional 8x lanes provided by the chipset, as they can also bottleneck over the DMI 2.0 if enough are used simultaneously. Imagine trying to shove 40Gb/s just off of the 8x PCIe lanes on the chipset over a 20Gb/s link... Not pretty, and a valid issue for heavy I/O users.

This would work as an entry level workstation, and Intel's actually created the Xeon E3 series out of the LGA1155 socket as a result (uses a slightly different chipset from the C20x family).

But keep in mind that the MP is a high-end workstation, not an entry level product.

Now it's possible Apple could consider this, but to do so would be a significant step backwards for creative professionals, which seems to be the majority of MP purchasers from what I can tell.

PCIe lanes are provided by the CPU, thus the chipset won't matter. Z68 provides as many lanes as P67 or H67.
Actually, the Z68 adds an additional 8x lanes. But it does have limits. Both in bandwidth, and total lane count (24x total), it's still fewer lanes than current MP's offer.
 
6-cores are too expensive. If you look at what the situation was a year ago, iMac had as fast CPU as the Pro, even though both were just updated.
And now with thunderbolt. If next Mac pro have fast CPU as iMac. (even new mini server has nearly the quad pros performance)

What reasons people looking for entry-level Mac Pro (not mid-level, high-end). rather than iMac?

especially when you consider there are a lot of thunderbolt peripheral (tb audio, tb, storage, tb graphics card) on the edge.

IMO in today situation, There will be better to use all DP xeon. and bring up the price. rather than use single Quad-Core xeon e5. that laps the iMac line-up.
 
And now with thunderbolt. If next Mac pro have fast CPU as iMac.

What reasons people looking for entry-level Mac Pro (not mid-level, high-end). rather than iMac?

especially when you consider there are a lot of thunderbolt peripheral (tb audio, tb, storage, tb graphics card) on the edge.

IMO in today situation, There will be better to use all DP xeon. and bring up the price. rather than use single Quad-Core xeon e5. that laps the iMac line-up.

The availability of TB enclosures is very small atm. Most pros often have external storage already (e.g. eSATA) so Thunderbolt isn't necessary. Even if they don't have, the Mac Pro can end up being cheaper than iMac and TB RAID box like the Promise Pegasus.

Some people also dislike the iMac's screen a lot and are ready to pay more not to be limited to it. Sure, external monitor can be used but come on, not everyone has space for two or more +27" monitors.

While TB may offer external GPUs, the link between the GPU and CPU is much, much slower and higher latency then with internal GPUs. Thunderbolt is only 10Gb/s, that isn't too much. PCIe 2.0 x16 offers 64Gb/s. Thunderbolt is connected via PCIe so there is additional latency too.

Thunderbolt may have the potential to kill at least the SP Mac Pro but only time will tell us what happens. Today, Thunderbolt is more or less useless, excluding a couple of expensive peripherals.

nanofrog said:
Actually, the Z68 adds an additional 8x lanes. But it does have limits. Both in bandwidth, and total lane count (24x total), it's still fewer lanes than current MP's offer.

Yeah, I know that. But so does P67 and H67 ;) Aren't those lanes usually used for stuff like USB 3.0, Thunderbolt and other onboard controllers? Usually the lanes from the CPU are the only free ones and meant for GPUs and other PCIe cards.
 
The availability of TB enclosures is very small atm. Most pros often have external storage already (e.g. eSATA) so Thunderbolt isn't necessary. Even if they don't have, the Mac Pro can end up being cheaper than iMac and TB RAID box like the Promise Pegasus.

Some people also dislike the iMac's screen a lot and are ready to pay more not to be limited to it. Sure, external monitor can be used but come on, not everyone has space for two or more +27" monitors.

While TB may offer external GPUs, the link between the GPU and CPU is much, much slower and higher latency then with internal GPUs. Thunderbolt is only 10Gb/s, that isn't too much. PCIe 2.0 x16 offers 64Gb/s. Thunderbolt is connected via PCIe so there is additional latency too.

Thunderbolt may have the potential to kill at least the SP Mac Pro but only time will tell us what happens. Today, Thunderbolt is more or less useless, excluding a couple of expensive peripherals.
That make me think above user can afford to pay $3000 for their workstation.

With iMac thunderbolt. it made some entry-mac pro user distress to bought it.
(such as the some people in some "Future of mac pro" threads)

We may have "same as iMac performance" CPU in base mac pro in yesterday. but today rather than that we have "nearly expandability" of the pro in iMac too.

So IMO. apple ought to bring some performance gap to divide its line up. (Like it be in 2006-2009 era iMac=2Core Mac pro>=4 core)

Now i think three folds.

First, The line-up of next mac pro features dual processor on every model and bring up the price (at ~$3000), leave SP as BTO (discount at $3-400). this option will made the big gap of performance (and price too.) between based mac pro and high-end iMac (as 8 vs 4-Core).

Second, Same price but bring Hex-core (or 4-Core with 2nd SSD Standard) to base configuration. to made a performance gap.

Thirds, Quad as base configure but drop down the price to match i7 iMac ($2199). Some user will see an iMac as a mac pro with free 27" Thunderbolt Display.

Do your guys think what choice is possible?
 
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With iMac thunderbolt. it made some entry-mac pro user distress to bought it.

Distressed or bought the right product ? There has been a set of people who bought the wrong product, the Mac Pro. That is one reason why there is almost constant complaining about the Mac Pro price. It is the wrong product for those people because it doesn't meet their budget constraints or workload needs.

A fraction of the "I need a minitower" folks can now by an iMac and have their needs met in the price range they are constrained to. Multiple monitors and about one decent PCI-e slot worth of I/O.



but today rather than that we have "nearly expandability" of the pro in iMac too.

Yes and no. There is a wider variety of things you can connect to the iMac but if what the user needs is bandwidth and expandability there is gap.

Thunderbolt isn't great bandwidth if look at the bandwidth of the current Mac Pro's PCI-e slots. It is even worse in comparison to a Mac Pro with Xeon E5 ( PCI-e v3.0 which doubles the throughput. )

The E5 also have higher memory I/O ( to/from RAM and the L3 caches).

TB moves older protocols: DisplayPort 1.1a when 1.2 is current and PCI-e v2.0 when v3.0 is about to be current.


First, The line-up of next mac pro features dual processor on every model and bring up the price (at ~$3000), leave SP as BTO (discount at $3-400). this option will made the big gap of performance (and price too.) between based mac pro and high-end iMac (as 8 vs 4-Core).

Second, Same price but bring Hex-core (or 4-Core with 2nd SSD Standard) to base configuration. to made a performance gap.

Thirds, Quad as base configure but drop down the price to match i7 iMac ($2199). Some user will see an iMac as a mac pro with free 27" Thunderbolt Display.

There is a performance gap just by using an E5 instead of a mainstream core i7. You are not going to see it with some synthetic benchmark that is so small it fits in the L3 cache of both though. If get down to measuring real multithread I/O horsepower there is a gap. A large one.

Pointing at core or GHz numbers is myopic. The performance of the top end BTO iMac is going to be close to the low end Mac Pro because they are relatively close in price. There is not going to be some huge gulf between them. All the Mac Pro has to be is "faster' which a 0.2GHz gap will provide.

SSDs "standard" are only going to jack up the price too high. $3,000 can't be the base price of the Mac Pro. That is just wrong. If willing to sell a machine at a lower price then that is the base. All the options in any BTO store should move the base price up. You don't hide your lower prices inside some knobs in the store. You post them clearly so that folks with a budget don't walk past your store thinking there is nothing to buy.

If anything the Mac Pro needs to "take back" the $2,099-2,999 price range from the iMac; not give it up completely. Giving it up completely would be the death of the Mac Pro. That is exactly where the XServe was..... it is dead.

To get down to $2,199 the Mac Pro would require the E5 1620 to be priced just as low as the former Xeon 3x20 models ( ~$260) and strip down a number of components. So a 4x1GB RAM , a smallish HDD , no optical , entry video card , etc. Something like $2,299 or $2,399 is more likely. Some movement down would be a start.

The prices for these Thunderbolt PCI-e card expansion boxes haven't really been posted. If these are $200-300 then the Mac Pro is going to be a better deal if Apple can close the gap by at least that much. Instead of one or two slots PCI-e v2.0 which saturate your TB data throughput, you get 4 PCI-e v3.0 slots (with twice the bandwidth).

Most users aren't going to have large need for TB on a Mac Pro when have higher bandwidth in the form of PCI-e cards.
 
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