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Mac Pro 2013 Gaming?
- Thread starter pscl
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The Xeon is a generation behind. They are Ivy Bridge based where the Core i7-4770 is on Haswell. The Ivy Bridge Xeon is faster than the Ivy Bridge Core i7 from the Late 2012 iMac's.
As for the plugins, I expect that to change eventually. X-Plane will start to pick up FSX developers as X-Plane gains more converts. How long that will take depends on how fast people make the jump.
They both Turbo Boost to 3.9GHz but the Mac Pro uses ECC main memory which actually hurts all out performance a little. The iMac's CPU is no joke and slightly newer gen so it's not surprising that it's a bit faster, that's not to say better in every way. Despite what has been made about the new Mac Pro's cooling that big single fan and huge heatsink will likely allow the new MP to run for longer periods without throttling. And if you need ECC then you have no choice.
[G5]Hydra;18580669 said:
"In the Top 10% of the gaming rigs out there right now" - Words fail me....
You have absolutely no facts to back up the huge assumptions you are making here!
At least base you facts on something tangible.
http://www.3dmark.com/search
Go to town, gamers love 3dmark.... have a search and see how close to the 10% the new mac pro hits.....
Lol. I'm laughing at myself right now. Well played sir.....
Only caveat being that we don't know what percentage of the 3dmark results are actual gaming PCs. That 91% is all systems tested.
Actually that 91% is quite bad against PC systems running 2x 7970 crossfire. Those systems are near the 99% mark. The D700 are way off the pace.
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Tested by Mac Vids Cards, who isn't very fond of the nMP.
Dual 7970 in a 12core 3.4Ghz 2012 MP is slower than a the 3.0Ghz 8 core Dual D700 nMP.
http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,8154.0.html
cMP with 7970s
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2064476
nMP with D700's
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2038247
So if we're talking about just what's the best MP over all it's the nMP by far.
Of course with a custom built PC, we won't be limited to much slower ram, and PCIe v2 like the 2012 MP.
Personally I think the MP is fine for gaining, although we all know it can't compete against a custom gaming machine. Although for someone that likes to game here and there and doesn't want to spend on an extra machine it'll do fine. Especially in Windows where Xfire works.
AMD really need to sort out their drivers though, in regards to OSX, and Windows.
Pretty much agreed. No one is saying a nMP is better than a 2014-spec custom gaming box, but the fact the nMP does both workstation and game-station quite well is the icing on the cake.
Pretty much agreed. No one is saying a nMP is better than a 2014-spec custom gaming box, but the fact the nMP does both workstation and game-station quite well is the icing on the cake.
I guess at some point we need a list of nMP games that work as they should under CrossFire, so as not to end up buying a melon on irrestible steam offers
I think the six core nMPR with dual D700s would make a great games machine but I also think the drivers need time to mature and crossfire needs to work properly. But you will have a great powerful and quiet system in a small package.
On the flip side one R9 290x can cost as much as the upgrade to dual D700 so it would be embarrassing if they weren't better game cards. But of course they are way cheaper then an off the shelf FirePro card.
On the flip side one R9 290x can cost as much as the upgrade to dual D700 so it would be embarrassing if they weren't better game cards. But of course they are way cheaper then an off the shelf FirePro card.
This is total nonsense. Mac Pro is a workstation computer. Sure, its good at gaming, but a faster dedicated gaming machine can be build at a lesser price. I am too lazy to throw a build together, so just look here: http://toptengamer.hubpages.com/hub/Best-2-000-Gaming-PC-Desktop
Its a $2000 build which will as fast or faster than your 3,999.00 Mac Pro
Yeah I didn't pull out the 90% number completely out of thin air, someone even posted the chart a page or two ago, but it is a fair point you make that we don't really know how many of those benches are actual gaming PC's. Then again you curiously posted on a short while ago:
Your statement would indicate that you yourself think 3dmark heavily skews toward gamers then you moved the goalposts saying that the MP is bad against 2x7970's. I never said it would be good against a 2x7970 but then again most machines ever built wouldn't either.
The short of it is The nMP is pretty good at gaming despite it obviously not being made for such a purpose. It's small and quiet, heck it wouldn't be terrible for a LAN party but I think I'd be terrified that someone would walk off with it
If you are already getting one for other purposes then gaming is just a nice bonus. Why some people get all bent out of shape because other people want to play with their shiny new work machines I don't know. Especially considering it would cost a not inconsiderable amount of money to build a better performing gaming rig to use on the side which wouldn't make sense when the nMP could be used for both purposes.Say for example you were considering a Hexcore MP. Would you upgrade to the D700's for $600 more or would it be more cost effective to build another machine to game on. IMHO the upgrade to the D700's does two things. First it gets you to that 10% of 3dmarks which helps it as a gaming machine and secondly it will be much more desirable on the used market in a few years. If you were to take that very same $600 and put it towards a gaming rig you'd barely get the gfx card needed to get to that top 10%. Forget about the MB, RAM, case PSU etc. I would think you'd need probably around $1500 to get a reasonably good game rig if you wanted at least dual R9's or a 780Ti in there.
ETA- thanks to leman for proving my point.
$600 for the D700 upgrade or $2000 to go to the trouble to build the game rig. If you are already buying the nMP then it saves you $1400 by not having to build a game rig.
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Hey if anybody is interested or wondering about audio, I just plugged my USB PC gaming headset Plantronics GameCom 780 into my (soon to be replaced) iMac, works great, microphone too. No drivers or software required, just appears as a new device in sound settings.
While it's obvious you could build a PC gaming machine for half the price that performs roughly twice as well, I wouldn't call the Mac Pro bad for gaming.
The D700 dropped a lot of what made the FirePro a professional card. I'm not even sure it is a FirePro and not just a 7970/280X with a lower clock (nobody has done the Windows Pro application benchmarks yet to deliniate between them).
Even if the D700 were a legitimate FirePro, cards like the W9000 perform almost identically to similarly clocked consumer cards in gaming (I'd argue because they are almost identical, and just have arbitrary software distinctions). There really isn't a difference, except in certain specific applications (and in the W9000/8000's case, ECC, but that's moot on the nMP)
I am hugely skeptical of the nMP, but I have to say that the gaming performance is definitely very good, on par with a high-end gaming rig (provided you don't mind Crossfire, which is fine about 90% of the time these days).
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I agree, I've argued from the beginning that calling the DXX's FirePro was pure marketing on Apple's part. While everybody bleated how the D700 was going to make you take out a second mortgage I knew that the only way they'd pull it off is by making it a Kindof-FirePro.
Here's where the value comes in. Many, or most of us have a need or desire for this computer. My case is typical from what I've heard around here, I'm a software engineer who needs a top drawer machine to keep up with me. I also like to game a bit and don't want another ugly box and monitor at my desk. I also would rather spend the $2k on a gaming box and pour that into one machine.
Voila! The new Mac Pro fits the bill. Pretty ideal, in one machine I've got everything I want professionally, and personally I've got gaming performance too. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple didn't more-or-less have this use case in mind.
This is how USB DACs work these days - they are natively supported everywhere.
Never had issues with B&W MM-1s (outstanding sound quality btw, highly recommended) or FiiO E17 amp in OS X / Bootcamp.
P.S. You might want to change sampling rate to 96Khz if your device supports it and you want to play high-res audio (Utilities -> Audio MIDI Setup).
For some that is an option yes. Having two machines.
But the nMP for certain pro app usage tramples all over an iMac so we have to get the nMP for that kind of work. It's just a great bonus that we can also game on it so no need for a second machine (which is what I do right now). Less electricity, less cables and monitors too.
Everybody will have a personal preference in the end.
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Hey thanks, will look into those (edit)speakers. Can only go up to 48Khz on the Plantronics.
I really want to listen to what 24/196Khz audio sounds like as my parents have a very high end Hi-Fi setup and have started to ask about DAC's and Streamers. They have Stac ear speakers which are meant to be quite good. Do you have any experience with 24/196 ?
Cheers
Anim
I'm not a full-blown audiophile, just enjoy good sound.
As for high-res content - only thing I have in 96Khz is Muse's last album. With FiiO amp (which supports 96Khz) and on Shure 940s there seems to be a little more clarity, especially on orchestral parts. But that is it. Keep in mind, to "properly" listen on Mac you have to use direct-access player, Fidelia, etc. - iTunes supposedly will not deliver the sound.
All in all, consumer high-res audio is more of a hoax IMO, 44Khz losless is more than enough if you use good amp and headphones.
Never had experience with Stax, they cost a pretty penny, that's for sure.
Shure makes perfect canal/headphones for me, ideal for jazz- or progrock-like music, very exact "analytical" sound.For 44.1Khz - 24bits or even 16bits / it's more than enough for normal use.
You need a nice room and a nice pair or (5.1) speakers, to take advantage of higher formats.
If you gonna use headphones, 44.1Khz it's more than enough.
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Personally I think over 3000 for gaming rig of the spec offered by the Mac Pro is too much. It doesn't perform that great if the Anand review is anything to go by. I'm using a DIY PC (i7 3770k + GTX 780) as my desktop - the major components excluding the extra SSD's and RAM that I use for VM's can be bought for around £1000-£1200. It's a great all-rounder and does play games at 1440p very well.
Don't get me wrong I'd love a Mac as I prefer OS X to Windows any day of the week, and I do expect to pay a bit more for the privilege. I don't expect to pay 3 x the price for the same performance though. It just doesn't seem worth the investment to me. If Apple were to offer a 'Mac' with a similar form factor to the nMP that contained an i7 and a single fast graphics card with a starting price of around £1500-£2000 I'd buy it yesterday. I really don't see why Apple won't make this as potential buyers won't buy either the mini or the iMac and can't justify the price of the nMP - I would have to spend around £6-7k for a spec similar to my PC if I took external storage into account.. We build PC's or Hackintoshes instead because Apple's product line is too thin.
Have to agree with you for the sole purpose of just a gaming machine. The nMP is a luxury in that regard with moderate/high end gaming on those that support Crossfire.
A proper gaming machine, in my book has different components/requirements.
A single very fast Graphics card, the GTX 780 Ti at the moment if you prefer Nvidia which seems to have better game support than AMD.
3 x 120 Hz 1ms gaming monitors (these are utterly terrible for anything but games)
8Gb or 16Gb of fast ram
512GB SSD boot with HDD data drive
Blu-ray/dvd writer
Lastest Gen CPU clocked between 4 and 5 Ghz (cooled however you can)
Deathadder 2013 mouse
Good gaming headset that lets you get positional audio (including above/below)
You could SLI that up but that can cause more issues than solves them (Thinking Cod Ghosts here), Pro gamers are about FPS not about Ultra settings that can hamper visibility when all you need to see is the enemy. So single fast card is optimum imo. 90+ fps is a goal I aim for in any game. Even if I have to run at medium graphics.
You ignore his main argument of resale value. Anyways, the fact that the nMP is benching the way it does under Windows gaming is just fantastic for anyone who would care. Buy what you want, but this workstation just happens to make a pretty singular lan party box.
Certainly wont be for everyone but if you're looking into one and whether it could game was on your mind, it seems the answer is yes. How could that be a bad development? Did anyone seriously expect cf support? I didn't.