MP 14,8 Mac Pro 2023 is a scam

[cybermook]

They still are. They still sell them. They have continuously tweaked them so they are upgradable and current.

 

[jimmy_john]

They still are. They still sell them. They have continuously tweaked them so they are upgradable and current.

It’s wild they still sell them!

Those Xeons were released over 3 years and 3 Xeon generations ago. We had a few of the 7920’s but the 7865s were a huge upgrade.

 

[TheCopywriter]

So... back to ECC. Is it coming or not?

 

[impulse462]

Do you know if you can boot off that card off a partition where you’ve raid’ed 2 or more sticks together?

I don't boot off the 8tb sabrent but my main linux partition boots off a 2tb samsung evo 970 which is also plugged in via pcie. works fine.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I don't boot off the 8tb sabrent but my main linux partition boots off a 2tb samsung evo 970 which is also plugged in via pcie. works fine.

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out if raid'd sticks are macOS bootable on that device. I do NOT think they are, but it's always nice to get confirmation (one way or the other) from an actual user.

 

[HDFan]

do video editors use it?

Checked the website of the maybe best and most popular trainer (Larry Jordan) of professional video editors. He does hardware reviews as well. Just released his M2 Studio review. No mention of ECC anywhere on his site.

 

[impulse462]

Thanks. I'm trying to figure out if raid'd sticks are macOS bootable on that device. I do NOT think they are, but it's always nice to get confirmation (one way or the other) from an actual user.

I can't speak to macOS unfortunately, I just use linux and format everything using gpartition etc. Honestly I feel like it would be weird if it wasn't supported on macOS? maybe some BSD commands you can use.

Checked the website of the maybe best and most popular trainer (Larry Jordan) of professional video editors. He does hardware reviews as well. Just released his M2 Studio review. No mention of ECC anywhere on his site.

damn i guess NO ONE NEEDS ECC THEN because this one video editor doesn't need it

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I can't speak to macOS unfortunately, I just use linux and format everything using gpartition etc. Honestly I feel like it would be weird if it wasn't supported on macOS? maybe some BSD commands you can use.

damn i guess NO ONE NEEDS ECC THEN because this one video editor doesn't need it

Dont you know the pinnacle of the pyramid of humanity is a YouTube/video editor. No one else counts. /sarcasm

 

[mattspace]

damn i guess NO ONE NEEDS ECC THEN because this one video editor doesn't need it

Systems crashing occasionally is normal now, didn’t you get the memo? Also,
periodic rebooting is perfectly reasonable as a maintenance procedure, that’s just how computers work.

It doesn’t matter if your pristine photographs, your digital memories have dead and hot pixels in them. After all, the file system doesn’t detect and protect against bitrot, why would you want your memory to do so?

 

[kvic]

damn i guess NO ONE NEEDS ECC THEN because this one video editor doesn't need it

Really bad. Photo editors lost the glamour so quickly. Audio 'editors' never seem to get the glittering. /s

 

[mattspace]

Really bad. Photo editors lost the glamour so quickly. Audio 'editors' never seem to get the glittering. /s

bah! the random electronic screeches that will appear in your audio files will just make you down with all the kids and their Skrillexes and their grindcore. Embrace the random “new data”. Your archived files should evolve and change every time you open them, or even just while idle on disk.

 

[HDFan]

damn i guess NO ONE NEEDS ECC THEN because this one video editor doesn't need it

He's the guy who many industry professionals use when they have video editing problems. He has hundreds of vendor contacts in the industry as well. If he doesn't mention it is likely that people who use him as a resource aren't experiencing ECC problems. That's thousands of video editors.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

He's the guy who many industry professionals use when they have video editing problems. He has hundreds of vendor contacts in the industry as well. If he doesn't mention it is likely that people who use him as a resource aren't experiencing ECC problems. That's thousands of video editors.

So have all these thousands of video editors been using M1 ultra studio's or real workstation's with ECC mem? Or have they all rushed out for the new Mac studio Pro M2 ultra's ?

Like all thing's time will tell. I would guess these thousands of editor's will wait before purchase to see if there are any issue's with out ECC mem before purchase.

ECC has been a workstation standard for age's Apple cant just turn up with a machine they call pro or workstation with out ECC and then say its ok. Its just Apple bending the rules because it suits them. The new so called Mac pro is not a true workstation. Its a Studio Pro at best.

 

[seek3r]

So have all these thousands of video editors been using M1 ultra studio's or real workstation's with ECC mem? Or have they all rushed out for the new Mac studio Pro M2 ultra's ?

Like all thing's time will tell. I would guess these thousands of editor's will wait before purchase to see if there are any issue's with out ECC mem before purchase.

ECC has been a workstation standard for age's Apple cant just turn up with a machine they call pro or workstation with out ECC and then say its ok. Its just Apple bending the rules because it suits them. The new so called Mac pro is not a true workstation. Its a Studio Pro at best

I’m still convinced it’s a compromise stopgap machine, and we’ll see a huge upgrade to it with either an M3 extreme type chip or that with the M4 generation (likely the latter given how M3 is likely around the corner and the MP was just released).

Whether that comes with ECC mem or not I guess would depend on market demand, I could also see them forgoing ECC directly on the memory itself and implementing some sort of error checking into the CPU/on die in the SoC that handles memory *and* other error checks, though I think it’s unlikely

 

[vsc]

Purely my personal opinion. All existing Apple Silicon computer shouldn't be defined as workstation. One of the main reason is lack of ECC memory.

I am not a super fans of ECC RAM, I can live without that. However, when we are talking about workstation, no matter we use the definition from Intel, or from Wiki. One of the main difference between workstation and normal PC is reliability / data integrity.

With ECC RAM, the hardware itself can detect and self correct some memory errors. This function doesn't exist on any Apple Silicon Mac, including Mac Studio and Mac Pro.

So, if a computer cannot detect memory error by itself. Which means data integrity is not guarantee. And I don't think it can't be categorised as workstation.

For reliability, it doesn't mean that the hardware on workstation cannot go wrong. But when something goes wrong, with ECC RAM, the user can know if there is any memory error straight away. Without ECC RAM, the user will need hours or even days to run memory test, and still no way to 100% sure if the RAM is really good.

Late to the game here, but I remember when I started designing deep submicron silicon devices (e.g. integrated circuits) upsets were a concern especially when one considers use cases. Processing X frames per second for display? Likely not to notice a few bits wrong. Doing iterative math operations where errors can compound? It's a big deal.

This logic applies to processor design as well where we were doing digital signal processing (DSP) pipelines. We had to specifically design in strategies to address this problem, including ECC for memory. In fact our partner, Intel in conjunction with TSMC, made a point that we must address this issue.

Apple's silicon is well into the region where this is a problem. I'm unaware what if anything they are doing. If nothing, then at best their hardware is targeting consumers. It's something worth further investigation before making a significant fiscal leap to Apple's silicon.

Oh and I agree with your opinion about Apple, workstation class hardware and the definition of a workstation.

 

[impulse462]

Dont you know the pinnacle of the pyramid of humanity is a YouTube/video editor. No one else counts. /sarcasm

the absolute most professional is someone who only uses apple software to makes uncritical youtube reviews of apple hardware because they keep needing to get free hardware from apple to have a job.

I’m still convinced it’s a compromise stopgap machine, and we’ll see a huge upgrade to it with either an M3 extreme type chip or that with the M4 generation (likely the latter given how M3 is likely around the corner and the MP was just released).

Whether that comes with ECC mem or not I guess would depend on market demand, I could also see them forgoing ECC directly on the memory itself and implementing some sort of error checking into the CPU/on die in the SoC that handles memory *and* other error checks, though I think it’s unlikely

optimistic but i wouldn't put it past this company. that john ternus guy in a wwdc interview said "i'm not sure how you would support dGPU architecture with the unified memory framework" with a straight face. he clearly isn't a computer architect

Late to the game here, but I remember when I started designing deep submicron silicon devices (e.g. integrated circuits) upsets were a concern especially when one considers use cases. Processing X frames per second for display? Likely not to notice a few bits wrong. Doing iterative math operations where errors can compound? It's a big deal.

This logic applies to processor design as well where we were doing digital signal processing (DSP) pipelines. We had to specifically design in strategies to address this problem, including ECC for memory. In fact our partner, Intel in conjunction with TSMC, made a point that we must address this issue.

Apple's silicon is well into the region where this is a problem. I'm unaware what if anything they are doing. If nothing, then at best their hardware is targeting consumers. It's something worth further investigation before making a significant fiscal leap to Apple's silicon.

Oh and I agree with your opinion about Apple, workstation class hardware and the definition of a workstation.

you lost the video editors when you said the words "iterative", "math", and "digital signal processing"

coincidentally my research involves a lot of that so glad to see someone else here respect it

 

[jimmy_john]

the absolute most professional is someone who only uses apple software to makes uncritical youtube reviews of apple hardware because they keep needing to get free hardware from apple to have a job.

optimistic but i wouldn't put it past this company. that john ternus guy in a wwdc interview said "i'm not sure how you would support dGPU architecture with the unified memory framework" with a straight face. he clearly isn't a computer architect

you lost the video editors when you said the words "iterative", "math", and "digital signal processing"

coincidentally my research involves a lot of that so glad to see someone else here respect it

Man, what a bunch of idiots these video editors must be. Going about their lives, getting professional, paying work done week after week, year after year.

Don’t they know they need ECC?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Man, what a bunch of idiots these video editors must be. Going about their lives, getting professional, paying work done week after week, year after year.

Don’t they know they need ECC?

Yes, and there are no other professionals other than video editors. Fact! Science! /sarcasm