Of all things, I think this is definitely not what will happen. It would cost around $75k fully maxed out if the goal is to replace the 7.1 I think the link Prefuse shared is the most likely scenario.
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MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...
- Thread starter maikerukun
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To be fair, the Powermac G5 was the dev box for the XBox 360, so YMMV on how much the dev platform resembles the deployed platform.
That maybe cause the G5 had a PowerPC CPU. Since the Xbox 360 was using one as well, it made sense I guess.
Would Apple kill ALL the expansion of the current Mac Pro and make another Studio?
They did in 2013 but let's see what Apple does in 2023.
Remember Apple likes to reuse it's chassis for a long time. Would Tim Cook retool?
I just wonder if the M-chips do support GPU PCI cards in any way? The current MacPro is kind of weird in the actual product line. Not that I'd need additional power, but I'd find it great if Apple would provide an update kit for Intel MacPros just to stay updated for the future.I bought the expensive MacPro 7,1 to have a Mac for the next 10 years not 3.
No. The ASi Mac Pro will have PCIe slots, there are more things users place in those slots besides GPUs...
- ASi Mac Pro
- M2 Extreme SoC
- 48-core CPU (32P/16E)
- 152-core GPU
- 64-core Neural Engine
- Hardware-accelerated H.264, HEVC, ProRes, and ProRes RAW (hopefully Apple adds AV1 as well...?)
- Four video decode engines
- Eight video encode engines
- Eight ProRes encode and decode engines
- 384GB LPDDR5 SDRAM
- 1.6TB UMA bandwidth
- 8TB SSD (dual 4TB NAND blades)
- Six PCIe slots
- US$17499
Why would Apple "make another Studio" when they already have one...?
The "update kit" for ASi in the 7.1 Mac Pro is buying the 8.1 ASi Mac Pro...
Your 7.1 Mac Pro will still work long after the 8.1 ASi Mac Pro comes out...
Since w have not seen any SoCs in the M2 family except the base M2 so far, there is no way to judge how many PCIe lanes the M2 Max SoC will have...
But whatever that number is, multiply by four for the M2 Extreme SoC...
I don't blame you for feeling like this. You can see which 7.1 I own in my signature...I refuse to stand idly by and watch Apple kill such a beautiful monstrosity.
Well the idea here that I originally hypothesized was what if it's not an M chip? What if all this time they were developing literally a brand new chip all it's own specifically and only for the desktop Pro systems. Something to truly compete at the high end again. 7.1 is capable, but it's CPU holds it back. What if Apple has been working for several years secretly solving this?
If those PCIe slots support the upcoming AMD 7000 series then this could be something interesting
Just to be pessimistic, is it possible the shift to Apple Silicon is complete? Maybe the Studio is all that apple has to offer to pros. Hopefully I’m dead wrong.
If those PCIe slots support the upcoming AMD 7000 series then this could be something interesting
And to be optimistic... If this happens, if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro supports PCI graphics, the optimist in me says that with a system update, eGPU support might be enabled for all the previous AS Macs. My suspicion remains that this long lead time with no eGPU has a purpose to force developers to live at least a couple of years with only AS graphics, and to architect their apps as AS graphics first, so there's no cases of "this app requires an eGPU to function".
Believe it when I see it. Apple has been on a roll of disappointing us lately, so I don't expect them to change that now.
instead of having to buy a brand new machine... (but c'mon... it's apple, and more importantly Tim Cook
I’m not sure I’d say “all he cares about is $$$$.” Besides, it’s not like that prohibits Apple from offering this upgrade path.
If I were Apple and wanted to make this happen, here’s how I would message it:
- Our Mac Pro customers are exceptional creators who are significantly committed and invested in the Mac system
- they love the expansion and power that only the Mac Pro provides and today we’re helping them preserve their investment by offering the Mac Pro Ultimate Upgrade for $10.000.
- Not only does this mean they can continue to use their favorite components from their existing Mac Pros, but by offering this once in a generation upgrade path, we significantly reduce the environmental impact these upgrades would otherwise incur
So, you’ve got money making (including a group of folks who may have waited another couple of years before upgrading) and environmental waste reduction and a lot of good will with arguably your biggest customers. If they were to do this, though, I wouldn’t expect a significant discount over buying the same config in an all new Mac or as many SKUs. The discount might be only $500, but the value proposition is that this is really only for folks who have a significant investment and they want to carry it forward.
So, it’s doable and would harken back to Apple’s earlier days (which they’re clearly trying to achieve on a few different fronts). I don’t know if they would actually do it because there’s a lot of complexity and risk associated with it ranging from skill set, people hour cost, training, and potential for abuse (eg a customer brings in a Mac Pro with a wonky graphics card and blames Apple for breaking it)
All in all, I’d say there’s a very low chance, but a chance nonetheless.
What are you proposing they receive in return for $10k, given that's the entire price of a reasonably specced 7,1 new?
I actually agree with you OP, and this has been discussed already.
The thing about 7,1 is that, even for the 2019 product line-up, it was a very much a forward-thinking design that suggested a new philosophy was around the corner. A number of events coincided to reach the 7,1 design, including the promotion of John Ternus, changes in the design team and the admission (or rather, acceptance) than 6,1 was a product driven by design over real-world functionality.
As a result, Apple hadn't rearchitected a product to such great lengths in a very long time. Likewise, the development of 7,1 coincided with that of Apple Silicon, and there is next to no chance that the two departments were siloed. Therefore I don’t believe Apple would have invested so much into this industrial design with a plan to retire it some 4 years later, knowing that Silicon was right around the corner.
Yes, the profit margin this series of products will have been extraordinary, but on reflection it's clear that the Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR were targeting a difference audience than the Mac Pro of old. Therefore the higher pricing was reasonable when many large companies won't bat an eye-lid.
The release of 7,1 was also not far behind the reveal of Silicon, which should have been a marketing mishap given the performance of M1, yet the decision to go with a tower and not for instance a continuation of the iMac Pro is interesting. It's clear that Apple is committed to the tower design since it is a differentiator from the less modular Studio, Mini and 6,1 Mac Pro. PCIe cards come in a variety of functions, from audio production to video production, I/O, additional storage and much more.
Silicon will have undoubtedly impacted the sales of Mac Pro, but I honestly doubt Apple is concerned. If they do intend to continue using the 7,1 enclosure (all be it with modifications), then they have already succeeded in gaining positive feedback and reviews from the hardware. And to be clear this was never a concern for most reviewers; rather it was the Xeon chips not taking advantage of modern creative workflows and the product pricing that were the main complaints.
In short, I believe that if Apple doesn't reuse the 7,1 enclosure, then they will indeed come up with a new one fitting for Apple Silicon.
The thing about 7,1 is that, even for the 2019 product line-up, it was a very much a forward-thinking design that suggested a new philosophy was around the corner. A number of events coincided to reach the 7,1 design, including the promotion of John Ternus, changes in the design team and the admission (or rather, acceptance) than 6,1 was a product driven by design over real-world functionality.
As a result, Apple hadn't rearchitected a product to such great lengths in a very long time. Likewise, the development of 7,1 coincided with that of Apple Silicon, and there is next to no chance that the two departments were siloed. Therefore I don’t believe Apple would have invested so much into this industrial design with a plan to retire it some 4 years later, knowing that Silicon was right around the corner.
Yes, the profit margin this series of products will have been extraordinary, but on reflection it's clear that the Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR were targeting a difference audience than the Mac Pro of old. Therefore the higher pricing was reasonable when many large companies won't bat an eye-lid.
The release of 7,1 was also not far behind the reveal of Silicon, which should have been a marketing mishap given the performance of M1, yet the decision to go with a tower and not for instance a continuation of the iMac Pro is interesting. It's clear that Apple is committed to the tower design since it is a differentiator from the less modular Studio, Mini and 6,1 Mac Pro. PCIe cards come in a variety of functions, from audio production to video production, I/O, additional storage and much more.
Silicon will have undoubtedly impacted the sales of Mac Pro, but I honestly doubt Apple is concerned. If they do intend to continue using the 7,1 enclosure (all be it with modifications), then they have already succeeded in gaining positive feedback and reviews from the hardware. And to be clear this was never a concern for most reviewers; rather it was the Xeon chips not taking advantage of modern creative workflows and the product pricing that were the main complaints.
In short, I believe that if Apple doesn't reuse the 7,1 enclosure, then they will indeed come up with a new one fitting for Apple Silicon.
I think this is exactly right. There is definitely a chance we see GPU support (lots of valid points made as to what that chance is), but the most important thing to Apple isn’t whether they have to put a team working on an AMD PCI GPU driver, it’s whether app developers go all in on learning how to use the ASI GPU and providing first class support for it.
Not unless Apple buys nvidia.
As AS GPU uses completeply different model to Nvidia/AMD then I suspect that any GPU card will be as Compute Only as opposed to actually display,
ie uses Apple GPU cores to do the display output but possibly add support for AMD (I think given history that Apple not going Nvidia) cards as Compute.
I do not see a difference (however others here more knowledgeable then me may be able to explain) however as Apple don’t seem interested in eGPU support on AS the other then on a TB bus what is the difference between an eGPU and an internal PCI-E GPU card for display purposes in terms of software development and access.
ie uses Apple GPU cores to do the display output but possibly add support for AMD (I think given history that Apple not going Nvidia) cards as Compute.
I do not see a difference (however others here more knowledgeable then me may be able to explain) however as Apple don’t seem interested in eGPU support on AS the other then on a TB bus what is the difference between an eGPU and an internal PCI-E GPU card for display purposes in terms of software development and access.
My wildest fantasies see Apple creating a Mac Pro silicon that looks like the current chassis but contains AS inside. And then they say something like: We're not only going to give you this machine with power that blows away the intel Xeons that we were selling, but we're also going to cut $1,500 off the base price to open this up to more people so that this becomes the platform of choice.
Of course, then I wake up to the cold reality that Apple doesn't give a crap.
Of course, then I wake up to the cold reality that Apple doesn't give a crap.
And then shortly after Tim Cook announces that effective immediately, he's resigning, and they bring Jony Ive back!
You know... Since we're still in the "WHAT IF" thread and all
Sheesh, that's a dark thought LOL. But I don't think they're done just yet. I think the M family has been revealed, and they have a much beefier, ultimate chip for the pro system.
That said, IF this were the end of the shift, then that would still mean the Mac Pro 8.1 would be an unstoppable beast as it would be a much updated version of the 7.1
I would actually be just fine with this. Give me a new board updated PCIe slots, a state of the art 48 core+ CPU, all in a $10k package. bring in and drop off my system for the install pick her up in 3 days and off to the races. I'm completely down for that.
Hmmm interesting points. Either way, I'm very curious to see where this all goes, and if our 7.1's get to come with us...
LOL...well I for one just want to be able to run w7800x DUO's on a 48+ core CPU, with media encoders native, and honestly that's my dream system. I love the 7.1 design, fit all of that in there and I'm a happy camper.