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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Interesting.



Either overt clickbait or someone seriously did not actually read the patent at all for comprehension.

'slot' is not a euphemism for PCI-e slot in this document.


In the overview of related are on page 1 ( of first patent linked 20230050061 )

" ... As process technologies shrink and GPUs become more powerful they may contain large number of shader cores. Software or firmware may provide units of work to be performed , referred to as "kicks" . Data master circuitry (...) may distribute work from these kicks to multiple replicated shader cores over a communication fabric. ..."

That communication fabric is inside the chip package. ( see figure 26 of patent).

On page 4 , section [0048] , 230

" ... These hardware slots may also be referred to herein as "dSlots" . Each subunit may include multiple hardware slots. 230 Sub units may also be refered to herein as "mGPUs ... "

On page 4 , section [0112] "Slot Reclaim "

"... In some embodiments , control circuitry is configured to allow a logical slot to reclaim a hardware slot that is assigned to another logical slot ...
... only hardware slots in the emptied state are eligible to be reclaimed by another logical slot"

What they are talking about there is that there are "slots" into which can insert work into inside the GPU subunits. mGPU isn't 'multiple GPUs". The 'GPU' here is closer to being what the Apple marketing literature calls a GPU core.

The appleinsider article pulls figure 6 out from the patent into a mostly made up alternative universe context. Where each vertical 'swim lane' in that diagram starts with a "Control Stream Processor" . You can think of that as what the marketing calls a GPU core. Once know that a mGPU is a sub-unit can also put this into a the proper contet that these are subcomponents of a greater whole.


What this patent is far more so about is how Apple can provide a bit of an abstract via a logical (i.e., virtual) kick unit mappings. For example can make it so that app1 , app2 , app3 get their own logical unit 'slots' to put work into. The kick manager here is working to assign it out a large number of mGPU units in some coherent , productive way. This job gets harder as grow the number of GPU cores ( and respective subunits inside those 'cores' ; ALUs , matrix , etc. ) larger and larger. It looks a little like how register renaming works. the opcodes refer to register3 (a logical/virtual name) , but dynamically that is 'renamed'/'mapped' to an internal register inside to processor with another physical number. Virtual workload slots are dynamically 'renamed/'mapped' to internal physical workload slots. When the internal workload is down then have to remap the results back to the logical/virtual address.


This is more so about 'really big', single GPU spread out over a chip die (or chip package) . Not Multiple extremely discrete GPUs.


The article mentions several other Apple patents today. I couldn't find one that has anything to do with discrete GPU topics/coverage. If he has got some specific numbers others, maybe there is something there that is closer to the 'story' being told here. ( third Affinity patent. same out of context hocus pocus where patent is talking about same mGPU (subunits) and Kick slot manager issues. )
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
I still find it interesting. :)



yet more completely out of context quotes pulled from the patent to 'fire up' the 'but it has just gotta have dGPUs' crowds into clicking on the link.

And of how folks outside of Apple create expectations that Apple really did not have hand in composing. But several rounds of the 'telephone game' will turn that into "but Apple promised us ( or lead us on with notion of ) dGPUs".
 

mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
What if the new macPro just used off the shelf AMD EPYC or similar workstation grade chips, forgoing SOC altogether, and kept upgradability? That would be my best guess.

If the Mac Pro can't use user-addable GPUs to increase the number of (non-Apple) displays the machine drives, it's just another trashcan... and hey, lookit, HP is cranking up the Z8 marketing with the new Xeons.
 

Kimmo

macrumors 6502
Jul 30, 2011
266
318
Some additional reporting on the Apple patents regarding GPU optimization:


Also, there's a good conversation on the subject going on here:

 

smckenzie

macrumors member
May 7, 2022
97
106
A bit off topic but encouraging non the less is that Maxon put out a post on the Redshift forum earlier today regarding how Apple want to work with Maxon to improve the GPU experience. They want us Mac users to provide them bug examples etc.

The encouraging thing here is this isn’t specific to AS - just gpu in general so seems like they are taking the whole gpu thing seriously.

Link below.

 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,174
Stargate Command
A bit off topic but encouraging non the less is that Maxon put out a post on the Redshift forum earlier today regarding how Apple want to work with Maxon to improve the GPU experience. They want us Mac users to provide them bug examples etc.

The encouraging thing here is this isn’t specific to AS - just gpu in general so seems like they are taking the whole gpu thing seriously.

Link below.


Blocked by a sign-in screen....
 

smckenzie

macrumors member
May 7, 2022
97
106
Oops my bad.

Here’s the bulk of it:


Hi everyone,

It's no secret that running Redshift on Apple hardware has been an inconsistent and unpredicatble experience for many.

While some issues have been related to legitimate bugs in Redshift or our abstraction layer implementation to support Metal, many other problems have been a result of issues with the Metal framework, the Metal compiler or the GPU driver. In these cases, the issues must be addressed directly by Apple. To be clear, this is not about asigning blame or pointing fingers. The GPU workloads in Redshift are generally much larger and more complex than in other GPU compute software and Metal is relatively new tech, so in many ways Redshift is breaking new ground here.

The good news is that Maxon and Apple are very much aligned in wanting to makes things better, and to do so we need your help.
We are asking for anyone who is experiencing crashes, glitched renders or other unexpected behavior running Redshift on Apple hardware to send us a report.”
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
Just was thinking….

The the 8,1 rumored to be a totally useless piece of s***, imo, lacking 3rd party gpu support. As such, there is a high chance that apple might not update drivers on the 7,1 to support the 7900 series because their lies about ASi graphics performance look even more atrocious. So basically ineptitude and spite.

I know that is a maximum cynical view, but I’m saddened by how rarely that view does not pan out to be incorrect.
 
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avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
2,264
1,654
Just was thinking….

The the 8,1 rumored to be a totally useless piece of s***, imo, lacking 3rd party gpu support. As such, there is a high chance that apple might not update drivers on the 7,1 to support the 7900 series because their lies about ASi graphics performance look even more atrocious. So basically ineptitude and spite.

I know that is a maximum cynical view, but I’m saddened by how rarely that view does not pan out to be incorrect.

Wouldn’t surprise me that they have to support their previous bench-marketing.

Even the old 5,1 running a RX6900XT seems to be competitive. 7,1 running newer cards is very good.

On the 7,1 you can use Windows, so it cuts Apple display driver support out of the equation.
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
I'm gonna catch up on all this content tonight possibly. Still out here in Germany doing business. It's pretty wild out here, meeting after meeting after meeting. Found international distribution for one of our films (we brought two out here), so it's going well, and of course...working on my M1 MacBook Pro and taking this photo with the iPhone 14 pro max :) Missing you guys and the thread though. Can't wait to see what. ya'll been discussing. Also, gave in and ordered an M2 Max MacBook Pro maxed out...8tb is just a mistake that haunts my M1 lol "4tb runs out quickly in my industry". I also ordered the M2 Pro Mac mini (8tb) to replace the Mac Studio running the Music Studio...it arrives on March 7th so I'll be sure to share my thoughts once it does. The M2 MacBook should be arriving the day I get back to LA (the 22nd) so I'll also update with my thoughts on that...I feel like these tools combined with my 2019 Mac Pro is really all you need to run any creative business or studio. And ya'll already know where this is headed :p...my thoughts project so far out LOL

Michael Simpson Jr. - Germany - Berlin Film Festival.JPG
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
So if you want to see how much Apple is s***ing on professionals, I have another thread on a color laser printer I just bought here:


The TLDR is apple is DEPRECATING that printer manufacturers make their own drivers and instead use the brain dead AirPrint driver. Why is this bad!?! Well, because you cannot set basic things with AirPrint like draft/normal/fine quality, or paper type in a bin being printed, and myriad of other really BASIC features of the printer. It's fine for stupid remedial iPhones, but it completely is unacceptable for any professional that has any print needs at all. It's beyond a joke. I honestly cannot believe it, but these nimrods are PROUD they are lobotomizing macOS day by day to be a ******* variant of iOS.

TLDR^2: apple is betraying it's pro users on many fronts.
 

maikerukun

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Oct 22, 2009
719
1,037
Anyone thinking Apple may do a Super Bowl ad during the halftime show to promote the new Mac Pro? Doubtful, as they would probably hype Apple Music instead. But wouldn't that be cool; if they did something as good as the iconic "1984" ad.
Apple Music put on the Halftime Show, which was cool of them, but the show was just okay. Rihanna definitely should've brought out the features on the songs she performed. Drake, Jay-Z, and Kanye would've made that show unforgettable.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
I'm thinking this might end up being the reveal, but we've seen surprises from them before so nothing is ruled out!

I hope not. I think punting until M3 makes way more sense than letting this dead rat flop out for us to deal with and then extrapolate from.

Sadly, I suspect youre right.

Man, I hope all my pessimism turns out to be misplaced.
 
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prefuse07

Suspended
Jan 27, 2020
895
1,073
San Francisco, CA
I hope not. I think punting until M3 makes way more sense than letting this dead rat flop out for us to deal with and then extrapolate from.

Sadly, I suspect youre right.

Man, I hope all my pessimism turns out to be misplaced.

That's kind of what pushed me into just getting the 7,1 now. Tired of waiting, speculating, plus knowing there's a high chance it could be on AS instead of being the last x86/Intel machine kinda drove me over the top. I still love the option of running Windows and Linux whenever I want (don't forget legacy x86 apps), plus I was reading yesterday that MSFT has now released documentation on running W11 on ARM Macs -- basically, they're just saying to use virtualization via Parallels, which means apple doesn't plan on bringing bootcamp to ARM/AS. I don't know why I had some hope that it might've been in development.

I am going to hold on to my 7,1 for as long as I can -- as I did with my 5,1.
 

ZombiePhysicist

Suspended
May 22, 2014
2,884
2,794
That's kind of what pushed me into just getting the 7,1 now. Tired of waiting, speculating, plus knowing there's a high chance it could be on AS instead of being the last x86/Intel machine kinda drove me over the top. I still love the option of running Windows and Linux whenever I want (don't forget legacy x86 apps), plus I was reading yesterday that MSFT has now released documentation on running W11 on ARM Macs -- basically, they're just saying to use virtualization via Parallels, which means apple doesn't plan on bringing bootcamp to ARM/AS. I don't know why I had some hope that it might've been in development.

I am going to hold on to my 7,1 for as long as I can -- as I did with my 5,1.

Sadly the reason I got the 7,1 day one, despite it being stupid expensive was similar pessimistic thinking. The PCI3.0 was beyond lame and last gen. But I figured they would f' it up and might never release a decent Mac Pro again, or at least not for 3 years, in which case I would be more than ready for an upgrade anyway. Well here we are.

There is value to it being the last of the intel machines and hopefully entitled to getting a bunch more software updates.

If apple fails to the deliver, all the sudden the value of 7,1's stays high by the hangers on who will hope apple fixes their mistake after 'trashcan 2 electric boogaloo'...although that may be a very very tiny group... The rest...
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