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MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...
- Thread starter maikerukun
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Like I said...we built a house. He just got here and kicked in the door, demanding answers to questions nobody asked LOL. I'm gonna let him explore the rooms. We'll be at the dining table waiting to serve dinner 😂
@prefuse07 octane x have no official benchmark. The most used scene has been the super simple “chessboard scene” that has been shared in the octane forums at otoy.com. It is however extremely simple by modern standards and only give a rough estimation of perf.
This “trench scene “ is even simpler.
I have continually tried using octane on mac and have my own scenes. On one of them a 6900xt in egpu vs vega64 was almost exactly twice the speed.
Now with no support for egpu on m1, rendering speed for a single m1max is back at vega64 levels but with more vram.
On my pc with 3090, there is just no comparison. It feels 10x faster and makes totally different workflows available. Even large scenes is almost instant. I did some tests with my scenes early on but at that time, octane x always crashed in addition to being super slow so I just dropped it. And now octane x 2022 doesn’t even support Amd graphics anymore so you’re stuck on octane x 2021 (called pr14).
Now, just waiting for a m2 ultra or something better to be released to finally know if I could get back to using mac only. I doubt it but really hope to be surprised.
I will not buy anything that is slower than an 3090 in actual real scenes. Would of course prefer faster than that but with about that speed, I won’t be limited with what I do for the time being.
It would be great if @maikerukun could run that new octane x scene I linked to earlier in this thread (the volume scene on the forum). At least we have up to date results for that one.
This “trench scene “ is even simpler.
I have continually tried using octane on mac and have my own scenes. On one of them a 6900xt in egpu vs vega64 was almost exactly twice the speed.
Now with no support for egpu on m1, rendering speed for a single m1max is back at vega64 levels but with more vram.
On my pc with 3090, there is just no comparison. It feels 10x faster and makes totally different workflows available. Even large scenes is almost instant. I did some tests with my scenes early on but at that time, octane x always crashed in addition to being super slow so I just dropped it. And now octane x 2022 doesn’t even support Amd graphics anymore so you’re stuck on octane x 2021 (called pr14).
Now, just waiting for a m2 ultra or something better to be released to finally know if I could get back to using mac only. I doubt it but really hope to be surprised.
I will not buy anything that is slower than an 3090 in actual real scenes. Would of course prefer faster than that but with about that speed, I won’t be limited with what I do for the time being.
It would be great if @maikerukun could run that new octane x scene I linked to earlier in this thread (the volume scene on the forum). At least we have up to date results for that one.
Actually hollup, I'm gonna let HIM cook! Even if we ignore real world usage and just go by the article he posted; My machine is 28% faster than TWO RTX A6000's LMFAO!
My GPU setup = $10k
TWO RTX A6000's? = $20k
SO...BY HIS LOGIC, COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES, TWO ENTERTPRISE RATED GPU's "3090's and 4090's are NOT", you have to spend $20,000 MINIMUM to match my Mac Pro...That's not even including the rest of the system...don't forget power bricks to handle that wattage, and very likely a nice $6k rig to put them in. You're looking at $30k or so all said and done. In the meant time on the Apple side, you can grab a 16 core Mac Pro for $8K right now and 2 w6800x duo's for $8k and walk away with a system 33% faster than an equivalent enterprise PC for just $16k...a full $4k LESS than just the GPU's in the PC LOLOLOL.
Now to be fair you can get them used or find them for around $5k via 3rd parties if you want and can possibly get yourself a system near $16k, but not direct from the manufacturer.
I could have another here on Monday 🥰
But this of course is all according to HIM...so I'm not gonna say anything because he kind of just said it all for me
I will definitely do so far ya once I am available to do so. As you know I was in Germany last couple weeks and now in Florida on vacation at Busch Gardens, Island of Adventure, and Disneyworld until next week. Remind me next Wednesday when I'm back home and I'll fire her up and let her have a go of it.
Interestingly enough "and you know I tend to crap on the M series because I think it's the wrong move for the Mac Pro 8.1 unless they've been working on a super secret custom chip that's going to blow us all away", I've been giving far more time during this past month of travels to doing some client work and even just experimenting with random assets and ideas in C4D 2023 while on the go and I have to admit, it's been very doable.
My primary issue with PC Laptop monsters that have 3090 performance on the go is they're not really "on the go" are they? They get their performance cut in HALF once you unplug them and still run out of juice in a quick 3 hours or so.
My M1 Max MacBook Pro has been handling having C4D, After Effects, and FCPX all opened simultaneously with zero lag and giving me all day battery life STILL, completely untethered and working on set, in my dressing room, at my hotel, in the lobby, out exploring...just everywhere I go...I don't even close anything...hell I haven't charged it today and as you can see, it's at 48% still lol.
Very much looking forward to my M2 Max MacBook Pro showing up next Wednesday when I get home and seeing how much faster it is on the go.
Obviously nowhere near what the Mac Pro 7.1 can do, but still definitely usable, and M2 Max should be exactly 33% faster than this according to outside sources...I won't know personally until next week.
To address what you were saying about the 3090 feeling faster...It DEFINITELY does in both Blender and Maya, and in C4D running Octane NOW THAT OCTANE HAS STOPPED SUPPORT AND ONLY RUNS ONE GPU ON MAC PRO 7.1 It definitely feels sluggish, and I have to resort to C4D R25 for that super speedy performance. And since I'm so acclimated to C4D 2023 now, I've settled for the fact that it is super nerfed and as a result, I admit to finding myself at a strange impasse of working in older versions of the software to take advantage of all my GPUs or working nerfed in 1 w6800x "which is still alone around 85% of the speed of an RTX 3090.
As we all know from previous posts in this thread, I have a $12k Puget system with two RTX 4090's sitting in the cart waiting to see what happens at the spring and summer Apple keynotes. If I don't like what I see for the new Mac Pro, I will be hitting buy and that Puget will be sitting right next to the 7.1
Because nothing on Apple's side will be even comparable in Octane moving forward on the 7.1 if Apple doesn't update the drivers and allow support for the upcoming successors to the 6-series GPU's or just release an Intel 8.1
24% off and as I mentioned in my post, you can find them for cheap if you look for them, I literally said that, but I appreciate you confirming it for me <3
And I didn't say "PRO", I said "ENTERPRISE"...that's the difference between the A6000 and the 4090.
I agree about the drivers though.
I didn't go looking for a great deal, I just went straight to the most mainstream store. Whereas you appear to have gone on a mission to find the most expensive A6000 you could. Thanks for conceding that better deals might be available though!
OK, but what is 'ENTERPRISE' about the 6800X Duo? It's not the features I mentioned, so why would it disqualify the 4090? Either neither are enterprise cards, or both are.
Hi guys,
I'm back, primarily cause of the latest topic. Those sites youse referenced are crap.
Here is the OG video those sites are talking about.
This card is a technical marvel and if Apple ever makes one again it will be wonderful.
But would I buy one myself, nope because 2 4090s are more better. Ada is a good architecture.
Still I love the wackiness of the Duos. (Now, I go back to my hibernation)
I'm back, primarily cause of the latest topic. Those sites youse referenced are crap.
Here is the OG video those sites are talking about.
This card is a technical marvel and if Apple ever makes one again it will be wonderful.
But would I buy one myself, nope because 2 4090s are more better. Ada is a good architecture.
Still I love the wackiness of the Duos. (Now, I go back to my hibernation)
Not sure a 4090 is cheaper than a Mac Pro fully loaded. 970 is what you get for a trade in.
Also likely that’ll drive the eBay market’s 2019s down.
Also likely that’ll drive the eBay market’s 2019s down.
Wouldn’t it be great if apple sent an invite to the press today about an event next Tuesday? 😂
It'd probably just be for an M2 iMac or something. I expect the MP will be previewed at WWDC, so developers can tweak their apps to take advantage of its unique architecture, with a release later* in 2023.
* December
* December
Isn't it a few days early? I would expect it more like Thursday or Friday of this week.
Actually hollup, I'm gonna let HIM cook! Even if we ignore real world usage and just go by the article he posted; My machine is 28% faster than TWO RTX A6000's LMFAO!
My GPU setup = $10k
TWO RTX A6000's? = $20k
SO...BY HIS LOGIC, COMPARING APPLES TO APPLES, TWO ENTERTPRISE RATED GPU's "3090's and 4090's are NOT", you have to spend $20,000 MINIMUM to match my Mac Pro...That's not even including the rest of the system...don't forget power bricks to handle that wattage, and very likely a nice $6k rig to put them in. You're looking at $30k or so all said and done. In the meant time on the Apple side, you can grab a 16 core Mac Pro for $8K right now and 2 w6800x duo's for $8k and walk away with a system 33% faster than an equivalent enterprise PC for just $16k...a full $4k LESS than just the GPU's in the PC LOLOLOL.
Now to be fair you can get them used or find them for around $5k via 3rd parties if you want and can possibly get yourself a system near $16k, but not direct from the manufacturer.
I could have another here on Monday 🥰
But this of course is all according to HIM...so I'm not gonna say anything because he kind of just said it all for me
Dude, just put down the RedBulls for a while a chill out.
The 4090 is 27% FASTER than a W6800X Duo. Two 4090s would be, according to your logic, 54% faster than your two DUOs.
If you're just talking about Apple's fastest, versus Nvidia's fastest, and comparing the price of entry, then we're talking about $3200 total retail for two 4090s, and $10,000 retail for two DUOs.
The simple fact of the matter is that you're in no way getting better performance for less money on the Apple/AMD side.
What if the answer is hiding in plain sight?
What if those four beautiful, wheeled, unplugged 7,1's on Johny's floor aren't 7,1's at all?
What if they are prototypes of the new, nuclear powered Mac Pro 8,1?
No power cord required and enough carbon dioxide-free juice to effortlessly drive any GPU combination a user can imagine.
And, it will light, heat and cool your house at no additional cost!
My sources tell me that Johny's group has it ready to ship. The only holdup is Apple Legal.
In typical namby-pamby lawyer fashion, they want all sorts of warning labels covering radiation, nuclear waste, no-proliferation, blah-blah-blah. What a bunch of killjoys.
What if those four beautiful, wheeled, unplugged 7,1's on Johny's floor aren't 7,1's at all?
What if they are prototypes of the new, nuclear powered Mac Pro 8,1?
No power cord required and enough carbon dioxide-free juice to effortlessly drive any GPU combination a user can imagine.
And, it will light, heat and cool your house at no additional cost!
My sources tell me that Johny's group has it ready to ship. The only holdup is Apple Legal.
In typical namby-pamby lawyer fashion, they want all sorts of warning labels covering radiation, nuclear waste, no-proliferation, blah-blah-blah. What a bunch of killjoys.
I don’t think he’s had the pleasure of basking in sunlight. Every time we see him he’s power-stancing in that underground lair. Must have been the small print in his contract.
So the rumours are now saying:
Tower with M2 Ultra integrated GPU, then additional M2 Max or M2 Ultra 'Compute' Cards taking up MPX slots, which include both CPU and GPU cores for additional compute performance and additional RAM. Actually sounds pretty awesome, and potentially a unique solution to the RAM and GPU limitations.
Tower with M2 Ultra integrated GPU, then additional M2 Max or M2 Ultra 'Compute' Cards taking up MPX slots, which include both CPU and GPU cores for additional compute performance and additional RAM. Actually sounds pretty awesome, and potentially a unique solution to the RAM and GPU limitations.
Except:
a) To access the RAM on different cards, you'd need to go through the PCIe bus. This has much lower speed / higher latency than a traditional pool of RAM.
b) You'd always add extra CPU cores when you add GPU cores. So adding powerful GPU capability would require paying for a ridiculous number of CPU cores.
If you have a m2 ultra at 24 CPU cores + 2x m2 ultra mpx modules, that’s 72 cores.
How does this address the 64 threads limit of macOS ? Is extending threads limit on an OS trivial ? Have we seen any OS version in alpha/beta that has removed the 64 threads limit ?
Moreover, how are these xtra ‘computers’ seen by the software ? Will they be counted as extra seats ? If so, consider paying for extra software licenses.
Can these mpx modules pool their Ram with the main SOC without much performance hit ?
What if the user is only interested in the CPU cores (or GPU cores) of the mpx modules ?
Who knows, maybe it's an opportunity for Apple to move some of the CPU's with poor binning or bad cores, and just use the GPU cores?
I REALLY like the idea of there being:
1. MAIN SLOT - this is not a PCIE card, but a proprietary main-board that contains the main processor, GPU, RAM etc for the Mac Pro with an M2 Ultra. This card CAN be swapped out with a new one, when the M3 comes out.
2. MPX Slots - Likely room for 2-3 of these cards which would be PCIe4 or PCIe5, and each card would be an M2 Max or M2 Ultra. The main system would offload tasks to these cards using grand central dispatch, and just like a typical GPU card, they would contain their own RAM which can be used for their own, insular tasks on-board, and then feed the results back to the main board.
Expensive for us, but quite a good re-use of existing hardware for Apple. Simplifies their chip architecture range by just re-using the same chips as their main boards for other Macs. No need to manufacture or design unique cores or layouts etc since it's literally just chucking an M2 Max/Ultra onto a card board.
Except we have no way of knowing if this type of interfacing is actually doable with current Apple Silicon.
A much better approach is to design a proper desktop chip with expandable RAM and external GPU via PCIe 5 or maybe something new that Apple makes, because let's face it, the end game is Apple Silicon, not Apple Silicon + AMD, intel or *cough* Nvidia.
RAM on the current 7, 1 is pretty damn fast; and there is much faster RAM available now.
If Apple refuses to make a desktop variant then they might as well just shove the current crop of Xeon in there and the latest AMD GPU; until they do decide to make a desktop variant.