MP 7,1 Mac Pro 8.1 - WHAT IF...

[maikerukun]

So as expected, all the reviewers around YouTube are absolutely praising the M2 Ultra MacStudio. If you are literally an editor or graphic designer or colorist, this thing is an absolute beast. But as I have sadly learned, the Mac ecosystem is going to have to have a special place in your home for a PC workstation lol.

So I guess the question now is, what is your dream co-habitation for both your Mac and your PC, because by years end, I think we will all succumb LOL "am I the only one that has already?"

 

[deconstruct60]

So as expected, all the reviewers around YouTube are absolutely praising the M2 Ultra MacStudio.

what is cheaper for Apple to ship round trip over the course of 3-4 weeks at no cost to the reviewer . A 10 lbs studio or a 50 lbs MP ? The answer should be obvious .

even the ones who buy ( and likely ship back quickly ) . The studio box easily reseals and is cheaper and easier to carry back to shipper or store .


vast majority of the reviews has little to do with buy as a use for a tool . The reviews are not going to be highly indicative of sales.



The ship times for Mac Pro are basi in the same range as the MacStudio . There is little indication here that there is some user response present that Apple haven’t foreseen. The reviews are likely making no substantive sales skewing .

Folks who have cards and are looking for multiple sources on basic application comparative benchmarks to older Macs basically can have them with either system . So it doesn’t matter. Folks who benchmarked a M1 studio in an xMac/Thunder expander and it didn’t ‘cut the mustard‘ … the M2 Studio inst going to do any better . Thunderbolt 4 is still Thunderbolt 4 . it is obvious which one of the two is better there . Nobody should need anyone on YouTube to point that out to them .

If you are literally an editor or graphic designer or colorist, this thing is an absolute beast. But as I have sadly learned, the Mac ecosystem is going to have to have a special place in your home for a PC workstation lol.

If in those roles and have more than 10TB of internal storage requirements , it won’t be the Studio being sold .

Most folks aren’t going to move because what they had just didn’t evaporate this month . Here is now rampant , desperate buying this time because the MP isn’t that old ( 9 years old ) or that far detached GPU wise ( 2009 era GPUs in 2013 ) . Folks who sank money into GPU upgrades during the crypto craze largely aren’t going anywhere soon .

M1 studio was good also . No big ‘ dump and run’ there either.

So I guess the question now is, what is your dream co-habitation for both your Mac and your PC, because by years end, I think we will all succumb LOL "am I the only one that has already?"

All succumb? Probably not. Years end . LOL there are going to be better systems next year . Nobody needs to move any faster than the pace they were already on . it is not always a contest of conspicuous consumption .

A fair number of folks will buy an ‘even cheaper’ 6800 to place their 5700 later this year.

 

[ekwipt]

I think most people doing creative works could be sufficiently satisfied with a RAID Thunderbolt 3 Storage from Areca, OWC, Sonnet, etc. Same with the majority of PCIe Cards (just get a separate 3 x PCIe thunderbolt chassis. So MAc Studio for most.

PCIe Gen 4 will make the Mac Pro attractive, but I don't know many creatives that need their disks to be running at 14,000 MB/s. Possibly Colourists working on massive 8K Projects.

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m2-8x4-pcie-card/overview.html

 

[majus]

I think most people doing creative works could be sufficiently satisfied with a RAID Thunderbolt 3 Storage from Areca, OWC, Sonnet, etc. Same with the majority of PCIe Cards (just get a separate 3 x PCIe thunderbolt chassis. So MAc Studio for most.

PCIe Gen 4 will make the Mac Pro attractive, but I don't know many creatives that need their disks to be running at 14,000 MB/s. Possibly Colourists working on massive 8K Projects.

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m2-8x4-pcie-card/overview.html

That high speed won't be attainable until a TB4 PCIe Gen4 enclosure is available. Sonnet says they don't know of one yet, but they are aware of the speed issue but they can't comment on what might be coming. HighPoint said the same thing.

 

[ekwipt]

That high speed won't be attainable until a TB4 PCIe Gen4 enclosure is available. Sonnet says they don't know of one yet, but they are aware of the speed issue but they can't comment on what might be coming. HighPoint said the same thing.

Sorry I meant Mac Pro is attractive because of PCIe Gen 4, Thunderbolt 4 can only handle Gen 3 PCIe same as Thunderbolt 3, we'll be waiting for Thunderbolt 5 and probably Apple Silicone Gen 3 or maybe 4 for that. So that's what makes MAc PRo attractive, one generation ahead of PCIe spec, although PCs now have PCIe Gen 5 on their latest motherboards from Intel and AMD.

 

[maikerukun]

what is cheaper for Apple to ship round trip over the course of 3-4 weeks at no cost to the reviewer . A 10 lbs studio or a 50 lbs MP ? The answer should be obvious .

even the ones who buy ( and likely ship back quickly ) . The studio box easily reseals and is cheaper and easier to carry back to shipper or store .


vast majority of the reviews has little to do with buy as a use for a tool . The reviews are not going to be highly indicative of sales.



The ship times for Mac Pro are basi in the same range as the MacStudio . There is little indication here that there is some user response present that Apple haven’t foreseen. The reviews are likely making no substantive sales skewing .

Folks who have cards and are looking for multiple sources on basic application comparative benchmarks to older Macs basically can have them with either system . So it doesn’t matter. Folks who benchmarked a M1 studio in an xMac/Thunder expander and it didn’t ‘cut the mustard‘ … the M2 Studio inst going to do any better . Thunderbolt 4 is still Thunderbolt 4 . it is obvious which one of the two is better there . Nobody should need anyone on YouTube to point that out to them .





If in those roles and have more than 10TB of internal storage requirements , it won’t be the Studio being sold .

Most folks aren’t going to move because what they had just didn’t evaporate this month . Here is now rampant , desperate buying this time because the MP isn’t that old ( 9 years old ) or that far detached GPU wise ( 2009 era GPUs in 2013 ) . Folks who sank money into GPU upgrades during the crypto craze largely aren’t going anywhere soon .

M1 studio was good also . No big ‘ dump and run’ there either.





All succumb? Probably not. Years end . LOL there are going to be better systems next year . Nobody needs to move any faster than the pace they were already on . it is not always a contest of conspicuous consumption .

A fair number of folks will buy an ‘even cheaper’ 6800 to place their 5700 later this year.

1. Nowhere did I say anyone needs YouTube to point anything out to them.

2. Didn't ask a question and literally just shared Mac ecosystems that require heavy GPU will need to make room for a PC.

3. Hard for you to grasp what this thread is and always has been. You completely ignored the question to make your weird points lol.

 

[maikerukun]

I think most people doing creative works could be sufficiently satisfied with a RAID Thunderbolt 3 Storage from Areca, OWC, Sonnet, etc. Same with the majority of PCIe Cards (just get a separate 3 x PCIe thunderbolt chassis. So MAc Studio for most.

PCIe Gen 4 will make the Mac Pro attractive, but I don't know many creatives that need their disks to be running at 14,000 MB/s. Possibly Colourists working on massive 8K Projects.

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/m2-8x4-pcie-card/overview.html

I agree with this sentiment and definitely recommend the OWC configs for people that want to upgrade their 2019 Mac Pros to something larger.

 

[innerproduct]

Calmed down a little here. Studio obviously had a good upgrade if you use the GPU. It now fits the place of an iMac. 3 years ago an iMac had a 10900 intel cpu and a 5700xt. If apple had stayed on intel we would now have 13900 with 7800 perhaps? That combo (with screen) used to be 3000$ now we pay 6000 for the ultra which is in the same league.
Mac pro of today would have a 56 core xeon with 4 tb ram and some special 7900 cards with 48 gb vram.
Obviously Apple either don’t care about the high end or their vision failed completely. A 4xmax chip would at least had insane cpu perf and about the same gpu perf as a fully stacked original mp2019 (dual duo vega 2 mpx)
So for now, we have this massive downgrade on the pro side and we all have to think on what that means for our workflows. I am evaluating. Have a dual 4090 with a 7950x specced out at my local shop. Slightly less expensive than a full Studio. About 8 times faster for gpu rendering.
Though, I don’t do that much 3d right now so I’ll wait until after summer for final decision. In the meantime, I wish you all good luck with your endeavors. Hope your puget solves your need @maikerukun Maybe in 2 years a new pro comes along with something useful.

 

[maikerukun]

Calmed down a little here. Studio obviously had a good upgrade if you use the GPU. It now fits the place of an iMac. 3 years ago an iMac had a 10900 intel cpu and a 5700xt. If apple had stayed on intel we would now have 13900 with 7800 perhaps? That combo (with screen) used to be 3000$ now we pay 6000 for the ultra which is in the same league.
Mac pro of today would have a 56 core xeon with 4 tb ram and some special 7900 cards with 48 gb vram.
Obviously Apple either don’t care about the high end or their vision failed completely. A 4xmax chip would at least had insane cpu perf and about the same gpu perf as a fully stacked original mp2019 (dual duo vega 2 mpx)
So for now, we have this massive downgrade on the pro side and we all have to think on what that means for our workflows. I am evaluating. Have a dual 4090 with a 7950x specced out at my local shop. Slightly less expensive than a full Studio. About 8 times faster for gpu rendering.
Though, I don’t do that much 3d right now so I’ll wait until after summer for final decision. In the meantime, I wish you all good luck with your endeavors. Hope your puget solves your need @maikerukun Maybe in 2 years a new pro comes along with something useful.

Thanks @innerproduct This was never a serious thread, and was always meant to just have a good time with my fellow Apple enthusiasts...which is why it's frustrating when people come in and take it super serious and say snotty things just to be basscoals lolol. And quite frankly, you are 100% CORRECT. I still believe Apple is up to something with the Mac Pro and will (very likely in the 2 year timeline you laid out) give us the ACTUAL Mac Pro they were waiting to give us in the first place.

I have to say, after the first few runs on the Puget, it genuinely feels "and very well might be" about 15 to 20x faster than the 2019 Mac Pro in GPU. it's fairly insane to think it's that far ahead, and frankly I won't bother trying to hold the Mac Studio up against that kind of speed and for now am just waiting for the Apple system that puts the 2019 Mac Pro out to pasture.

Back to the original "new original" question, have any of the new lineup of systems altered any of your setups, or will they be doing so in the near future? I've seen a lot of your setups on the other thread I started where we all shared our home setups and they were all literally amazing. If there's any updates happening thanks to the M2 family of systems, it would be cool to hear about

 

[Mac3Duser]

I have a macbook pro (14 inch m2max 38 core gpu 96gb ram), and a pc workstation for my work.

I've been waiting for the ASI Mac Pro hoping for something great, and the price of the 8.1 is too high for the specs, so I think I'll buy the M3 Mac Pro.

Including tax, if I buy a Mac Pro full options it's something like 12,000 euros.

If I buy a Dell workstation, for example, I have something good with nvidia A6000 for the same price.

If I build my own workstation with 4090, I have something better than the Mac Pro for less money...

The price in France of the M2 ultra Mac Pro starts at 8300 euros incl VAT, and 4800 for the m2 ultra mac studio.If the price of the mac pro had started around 5400 euros, I would have taken it surely. But there, the price difference allows me to buy two 4090s...

 

[majus]

Sorry I meant Mac Pro is attractive because of PCIe Gen 4, Thunderbolt 4 can only handle Gen 3 PCIe same as Thunderbolt 3, we'll be waiting for Thunderbolt 5 and probably Apple Silicone Gen 3 or maybe 4 for that. So that's what makes MAc PRo attractive, one generation ahead of PCIe spec, although PCs now have PCIe Gen 5 on their latest motherboards from Intel and AMD.

Thanks for pointing that out; I had not considered it. It surely does make the Mac Pro more attractive because who knows when Apple will bother to catch up with PC equipment -- they always seem to be lagging behind, which I don't understand.

If I went for the Mac Pro it would put it within about $1,500 of what I paid for my faithful early 2009 model and save me the hassle and cost of finding peripherals I would need.

 

[mattspace]

I've been waiting for the ASI Mac Pro hoping for something great, and the price of the 8.1 is too high for the specs, so I think I'll buy the M3 Mac Pro.

Given they're releasing the nightmare goggles with M2 in ~6 months, and we're about halfway through the expected product life of the M2 iPad, I would be unsurprised if M3 doesn't arrive for another 18-24 months.

 

[maikerukun]

I have a macbook pro (14 inch m2max 38 core gpu 96gb ram), and a pc workstation for my work.

I've been waiting for the ASI Mac Pro hoping for something great, and the price of the 8.1 is too high for the specs, so I think I'll buy the M3 Mac Pro.

Including tax, if I buy a Mac Pro full options it's something like 12,000 euros.

If I buy a Dell workstation, for example, I have something good with nvidia A6000 for the same price.

If I build my own workstation with 4090, I have something better than the Mac Pro for less money...

The price in France of the M2 ultra Mac Pro starts at 8300 euros incl VAT, and 4800 for the m2 ultra mac studio.If the price of the mac pro had started around 5400 euros, I would have taken it surely. But there, the price difference allows me to buy two 4090s...

Yep. That's the corner they've painted us all into. Because those two 4090's have an entirely different shine on them when an M2 Ultra Mac Pro costs as much...I think the M3 Ultra may be worth it, but it's gonna be interesting to see.

 

[maikerukun]

Thanks for pointing that out; I had not considered it. It surely does make the Mac Pro more attractive because who knows when Apple will bother to catch up with PC equipment -- they always seem to be lagging behind, which I don't understand.

If I went for the Mac Pro it would put it within about $1,500 of what I paid for my faithful early 2009 model and save me the hassle and cost of finding peripherals I would need.

Knowing that, does it feel more appealing to you? Do you think it's priced fairly or no?

 

[maikerukun]

Given they're releasing the nightmare goggles with M2 in ~6 months, and we're about halfway through the expected product life of the M2 iPad, I would be unsurprised if M3 doesn't arrive for another 18-24 months.

Are you looking forward to the Vision Pro or nah? I'm very excited for it "actively developing a handful of apps for it so obviously hoping it does well as a platform lol". But I'm also excited as a consumer. Given you called them nightmares goggles I'm guessing you're not so much LOL.

 

[majus]

Knowing that, does it feel more appealing to you? Do you think it's priced fairly or no?

Appealing, yes, but not enough to buy it because I don't have any use for all the PCIe slots -- just one or two. I do not think it is priced fairly. It is priced to force most of us into the Mac Studio, so that is what I will buy.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Calmed down a little here. Studio obviously had a good upgrade if you use the GPU. It now fits the place of an iMac. 3 years ago an iMac had a 10900 intel cpu and a 5700xt. If apple had stayed on intel we would now have 13900 with 7800 perhaps? That combo (with screen) used to be 3000$ now we pay 6000 for the ultra which is in the same league.
Mac pro of today would have a 56 core xeon with 4 tb ram and some special 7900 cards with 48 gb vram.
Obviously Apple either don’t care about the high end or their vision failed completely. A 4xmax chip would at least had insane cpu perf and about the same gpu perf as a fully stacked original mp2019 (dual duo vega 2 mpx)
So for now, we have this massive downgrade on the pro side and we all have to think on what that means for our workflows. I am evaluating. Have a dual 4090 with a 7950x specced out at my local shop. Slightly less expensive than a full Studio. About 8 times faster for gpu rendering.
Though, I don’t do that much 3d right now so I’ll wait until after summer for final decision. In the meantime, I wish you all good luck with your endeavors. Hope your puget solves your need @maikerukun Maybe in 2 years a new pro comes along with something useful.

I kind of disagree that the studio is a good update. Compared to what? The previous studio? Sure, I guess.

How about compared to a middling i9 intel with a mediocre bin 4060 that outpaces it completely (and the new Mac Pro).

Am I the only one upset apple cannot keep with a middling gaming PC. I mean we had i9's in our laptops a few years back. This is really kind of a kick in the gut. The Mac press, other than max tech, are all loathsome not covering this really basic analysis. The MAIN PROCESSOR cannot keep up with an i9. Forget that the GPU is even more lagging/wanting.

Weird world.

 

[mattspace]

Are you looking forward to the Vision Pro or nah? I'm very excited for it "actively developing a handful of apps for it so obviously hoping it does well as a platform lol". But I'm also excited as a consumer. Given you called them nightmares goggles I'm guessing you're not so much LOL.

I think it's going to be the best VR headset on the market, starved for processing power.

It looks like Apple has sorted the one thing everyone else in VR has failed to do - build out the basics of the default apps you use everywhere else, with a consistent set of UI for stuff like Open / Save etc.

Buuuuuuuut

I'm not convinced onboard processing is the way to go for a headset designed to do work that is inherently 3D in nature - floating flat screens in space isn't an amazing enough achievement to justify wearing a VR headset. The benefit you have to buy with that inconvenience is in tasks that are inherently three dimensional in nature - being able to just move your head to the side, rather than change tool context to viewport navigation, move your viewport, change tool context back to editing tool, etc.

What's most tragic about it, is that when Apple acquired NeXT they had a technology in Display Postscript that would allow an app's ui to be drawn on one computer, but the app itself would run on a different machine, and they let that go, in favour of just doing remote desktop. That's absolutely a technology that could be usable by their headset vision, but again, they're just doing remote desktop, which is a sad lack of ambition*

*based on the demos shown so far.

I'm referring it to nightmare goggles because all the images of it in use look horrific - the man recording his kids playing, their memory of the event is their dad in this creepy black visor, with horror eyes leering at them, or the guy on this couch watching videos, reminds me of Tom Cruise in Minority Report endlessly lost in videos of his dead children. There's something VERY off about the promo video, as if it was made by aliens pretending to be people.

Also:

 

[Mac3Duser]

Of course. I was expecting a lot from an apple version of tilt brush... but it will surely come by the launch.

 

[mattspace]

Of course. I was expecting a lot from an apple version of tilt brush... but it will surely come by the launch.

Likewise, I just question if developers are going to come to the party if they'e limited by the hardware, and an inability to tether back to a desktop.

 

[maikerukun]

Appealing, yes, but not enough to buy it because I don't have any use for all the PCIe slots -- just one or two. I do not think it is priced fairly. It is priced to force most of us into the Mac Studio, so that is what I will buy.

Sigh* That's the part that really hurts. Only one of two things can be true. Either they haven't shown us the final form of the new Mac Pro, which will inevitably be mind-blowing...or...they are intentionally and clearly pushing their pro users into a life of Mac Studio or sharing their desk space with a PC. Crazy.

 

[maikerukun]

I kind of disagree that the studio is a good update. Compared to what? The previous studio? Sure, I guess.

How about compared to a middling i9 intel with a mediocre bin 4060 that outpaces it completely (and the new Mac Pro).

Am I the only one upset apple cannot keep with a middling gaming PC. I mean we had i9's in our laptops a few years back. This is really kind of a kick in the gut. The Mac press, other than max tech, are all loathsome not covering this really basic analysis. The MAIN PROCESSOR cannot keep up with an i9. Forget that the GPU is even more lagging/wanting.

Weird world.

It's a painful reality and I think a lot of the space is scared to even say anything about it because they want to stay in Apple's good graces.

 

[maikerukun]

I think it's going to be the best VR headset on the market, starved for processing power.

It looks like Apple has sorted the one thing everyone else in VR has failed to do - build out the basics of the default apps you use everywhere else, with a consistent set of UI for stuff like Open / Save etc.

Buuuuuuuut

I'm not convinced onboard processing is the way to go for a headset designed to do work that is inherently 3D in nature - floating flat screens in space isn't an amazing enough achievement to justify wearing a VR headset. The benefit you have to buy with that inconvenience is in tasks that are inherently three dimensional in nature - being able to just move your head to the side, rather than change tool context to viewport navigation, move your viewport, change tool context back to editing tool, etc.

What's most tragic about it, is that when Apple acquired NeXT they had a technology in Display Postscript that would allow an app's ui to be drawn on one computer, but the app itself would run on a different machine, and they let that go, in favour of just doing remote desktop. That's absolutely a technology that could be usable by their headset vision, but again, they're just doing remote desktop, which is a sad lack of ambition*

*based on the demos shown so far.

I'm referring it to nightmare goggles because all the images of it in use look horrific - the man recording his kids playing, their memory of the event is their dad in this creepy black visor, with horror eyes leering at them, or the guy on this couch watching videos, reminds me of Tom Cruise in Minority Report endlessly lost in videos of his dead children. There's something VERY off about the promo video, as if it was made by aliens pretending to be people.

Also:

View attachment 2220570

Well okay then LOL.

For me I looked at it as a new job market. I was genuinely thinking to hire a team of about a dozen "capture technicians" who people would be able to hire to come capture events, dinners, keynotes, guest speakers, birthdays, family reunions. These people would walk around with Vision Pro's on and capture the entirety for the client.

Of course this market would be disrupted by the inevitable Vision Cam that Apple will for sure be making that will do this exact thing for you without wearing the Vision Pro and probably automatically upload to the cloud and be in your headsets folder for playback.

Same way you would hire caterers or a clown lol.

I also think given the cameras internally watching you, Apple will be able to offer an option that lives on board in the Vision Pro for privacy reasons, that can monitor your emotions and if it associates you crying and watching "those" clips all the time, perhaps it limits you or advices you to seek therapy or something.

I don't know there's all sorts of directions my brain runs when thinking about this thing lol.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

It's a painful reality and I think a lot of the space is scared to even say anything about it because they want to stay in Apple's good graces.

It's pathetic and further evidence that we just have a schill arrogant and hostile Mac press. For all the grief this forum gives MaxTech (much of it rightly for being click'bait'y), he was the only one with the guts to point out the what the Mac Pro is, a scam, and I have a LOT of respect for him, rather than the apple boot lickers (you all know who they are, ie, basically the entire rest of the Mac press).

That said @maikerukun you got one buddy hitching a ride on the 'delude yourself express road trip' youre on. ME! I'm super hopeful the M3 will get us back to something way more Mac Pro like.

At the very least it will be an M3 extreme, and have a decent amount of PCI lanes. Now will it have these other things:
(1) Upgradable Ram working in conjunction with the shared ram on the SoC (like we've seen on some intel systems where the shared ram can act as a fast cache of sorts).
(2) ECC RAM.
(3) Support for GPUs
(4) Upgradable CPUs

Sadly I have my doubts about any of 1-4, but what the heck. Let's take a ride on the great space coaster!

 

[maikerukun]

Of course. I was expecting a lot from an apple version of tilt brush... but it will surely come by the launch.

I'm so excited to see how people respond to the apps I'm developing. One of them may be possible with Quest 3 as well depending on how good their passthrough is. It has to be VERY CLOSE to Apple's level or it won't work, but it's going to be awesome I think for Apple Vision Pro users... I even have a small throwback bonus in there that should be extremely funny to people and also very useful.

And yep, would LOVE a version of Tilt Brush...IF NOT TILT BRUSH ITSELF. It's a great app