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Mac Pro Advice
- Thread starter apolloa
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Why wait for a used iMac Pro when you can purchase the consumer iMac now? I know you said you only like the iMac Pro but, given the only outward difference is the color, what do you dislike about the consumer iMac?
I think you're putting way too much thought into this endeavor. It's obvious Apple doesn't make a system that meets your needs and to your liking. Since Apple isn't going to change their product offering you're going to have to adjust your criteria. What you intend to do with this computer doesn't require anything really high end so several options are viable. If you really must have an expandable, higher end computer then you have to forget Apple and move to an alternative platform.
I don’t like a computer that’s overpriced and glued together, with no user upgradable parts or any way to easily service, those fans will break one day.
I also don’t flip my computers every year or two, so to me serviceability is a concern.
It’s the same concern as many others have, that’s why they have the cMP, they can service it and upgrade it. It’s why the last Mac Mini before Apple soldered everything down is the best model. They aren’t throw away devices costing thousands. I have no doubt if Apple screw up the next Mac Pro not many will buy it.
The only reason the IMac Pro is interesting is because of its high end specs. But it is still glued together.
Plus Apple do make computers for users like me, it seems I’ve had lots of responses from those users on here. Why should I go to another platform? And I’ll decide what I need, if I want a Mac Pro I’ll buy one, it’s my money.
And if you believe asking for advice on a forum is putting too much thought into it, what’s the point in a forum?
You seem to be in a mood to tell me what I want, like Apple tries to do, rather then help me with advice like the others have done. You are trying to think for me. That doesn’t help anyone at the end of the day.
Overall it seems it just takes some effort to boot into Windows, but I’m confused as to how you boot back into OSX after reading on here. That’s all. Any Mac can run OSX, but it requires a bit more to run some games, and PLENTY of Mac users play games, I don’t need to buy a Windows machine for 8 year old games.
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Well possibly, but with a quad core i7 it would be good I think, out an SSD in it, Max the RAM out. Could be tempting.
If you don't know the mechanics of BootCamp:
- On a Mac with BootCamp installed, you got to System Preferences/StartUpDisk and select BootCamp to reboot on Windows.
- When on Windows and you want to go back to macOS, you go to the BootCamp icon next to the clock and select macOS. You can go on ControlPanel BootCamp preference panel too.
To find the answer to your question look to the sentence you wrote right before asking it.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do nor how to spend your money. But isn't it evident Apple doesn't offer the computer you want? It should be as you said it yourself. Having recognized this you should be looking at systems, Apple or otherwise, which meet your needs despite not meeting your wants.
Thanks to the script the Mac Pro boot only one time to win10.
The next one will boot automatically in macOS.
If you read the script is self explanatory.
Regarding the Mac mini I talk for experience.... looking at the specs seem good, but while using it you will se a lot of lags...... not with the cMP
It seems you ignored what I said or you're really set on getting a Mac, then I would get a 4c with a D500 at least, and upgrade it to 8/10/12c. Any new Mac Pro that comes out I think you'll need to pay at least $6000 to get any respectable specs.
The iMac Pro is serviceable, just a bit more work than normal. It has upgradeable processor, RAM, SSD; just not the GPU so get the Vega 64 BTO at least.
The iMac Pro is serviceable, just a bit more work than normal. It has upgradeable processor, RAM, SSD; just not the GPU so get the Vega 64 BTO at least.
Of course I ignored you! You basically told me to get a PC, you didn’t read my first post I’m guessing? Please don’t tell me to get a PC, that gets tiresome quickly, if I wanted one I wouldn’t be here. And the iMac Pro is hardly as serviceable as a Mac Pro new or old. Plus it’s overpriced.
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Of course I know how it works, I’ve used it plenty of times, but reading the advice here, using an egpu or a cMP with graphics card not supported by Apple stops it from working the way you mentioned. That’s makes it an entirely different issue.
Thanks to the script the Mac Pro boot only one time to win10.
The next one will boot automatically in macOS.
If you read the script is self explanatory.
Regarding the Mac mini I talk for experience.... looking at the specs seem good, but while using it you will se a lot of lags...... not with the cMP
Thank you for your note of experience with the Mac Mini. I understand what you mean. It’s a cool idea though, but not as a daily driver in your experience?
With regards to the script, does that work with egpu’s as well?
If I understand you guys correctly, with Apples new file system, you have to jump through hoops to boot into boot camp when using an egpu or powerful GPU in the cMP or nMP? So if you had one drive, with the new OSX and file system, and a partition with Windows, you cannot use boot camp as suggested by tsialex?
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No, you perceive Apple don’t make a computer I want, I believe they do
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The Xeons are better then i7s I find, interesting performance stats from the equivalent D700’s, but considering how much they are, an egpu is a much better bang for your buck.
Standing Ovation
You didn’t answer my question though?
I read your first post and no where did it say you refuse to buy a PC. That's why I suggested you consider a PC because it meets all of your needs whereas Apple doesn't appear to offer anything current that does so. You came seeking advice and that, IMO, is reasonable advice. If Apple offered a reasonably current Mac which met your requirements I'd be recommending that system.
Having said that your options are either a nMP or a cMP. IMO the nMP, while a nice system, isn't much of a tinkerer system. It has limited "tinkerability" in that the only thing you can reasonably tinker with it is the memory and, possibly, the processor. Yes, you can tinker through TB but then if that is the path of tinkering you're going to take why not buy something much more modern (i.e. an iMac) and tinker with it in the same way?
The other option is the cMP. While a great system (I own three of them: a 1,1, a 3,1, and a 5,1) I cannot recommend purchasing one today with the intention of it "lasting" you. Today it's already ten year old technology and it'll be even older in the future. IMO not something I would recommend to someone who wants it to last (however you've defined it) them.
It's not about ignoring you but rather helping you make a wise decision. Your needs aren't heavy so the cMP is a fine machine and should serve you well. If you like to tinker buy one and discover, through tinkering, all the answers to your questions. After all, isn't that what tinkering is about?
Sorry but I don't know if it'll work with egpu.... but I think it' not necessary
regarding the Mac mini instead... yeah.. sucks for everything more than watching youtube.... IMHO
the cMP in my case is with one SSD for macOS and one ssd for windows...
less problems with win10... installation and management
regarding the Mac mini instead... yeah.. sucks for everything more than watching youtube.... IMHO
the cMP in my case is with one SSD for macOS and one ssd for windows...
less problems with win10... installation and management
I didn't tell you get a PC. I explained that you don't need a Mac to get the things you need done. But I see what you are. Good luck.
Apple used to make a computer that you want and if they still made one then you would find people recommending it. With that said you're set on buying a cMP. So buy it and begin tinkering with it. What's holding you back?No, you perceive Apple don’t make a computer I want, I believe they do
Thanks anyway. I’ll have a read of that egpu.io website.
Actually your wrong, I’m not set on a cMP. Apple still do make a computer for me.
^^ xeons from my understanding may be better binned run at same clocks at lower power or cooler but only by a touch.
but they will be the same speed unless they have more instruction sets, so say a cmp with a W3680 will be about the same speed as a i7 980X (the xeon has a few extra virtualization features if you run vm's)
if you look at reviews or comparisons the W3680 vs the i7 980X are in margin of error difference.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-W3680-vs-Intel-Core-i7-980X
any way for the games listed Crysis 1, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Metro 2033, Starcraft 2 & Diablo 3
there all only going to use 2-3 cores (metro may be the only one to use more than 2?) so as long as you have a 4c cpu or 2C4T your fine & it's not like your trying to run the new beefcake games that can use 6 cores.
and clocks win over cores most the time!!
sounds like you want a nice form factor (and that kind of cuts the cmp, and relay it's old + you dont need a dual cpu) and a nMP seems old for the cost & if you going to use a egpu any way why pay for dual gpu's (that are old).
also dont forget if you are looking at egpu a laptop is also an option to make things more messy
ps think apple still give a 1 year warranty with refurbished computers or if you are in uni there's educational discount
edit ^^ if you did not want the form factor id say look at hackintosh for value/speed
but they will be the same speed unless they have more instruction sets, so say a cmp with a W3680 will be about the same speed as a i7 980X (the xeon has a few extra virtualization features if you run vm's)
if you look at reviews or comparisons the W3680 vs the i7 980X are in margin of error difference.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-W3680-vs-Intel-Core-i7-980X
any way for the games listed Crysis 1, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Metro 2033, Starcraft 2 & Diablo 3
there all only going to use 2-3 cores (metro may be the only one to use more than 2?) so as long as you have a 4c cpu or 2C4T your fine & it's not like your trying to run the new beefcake games that can use 6 cores.
and clocks win over cores most the time!!
sounds like you want a nice form factor (and that kind of cuts the cmp, and relay it's old + you dont need a dual cpu) and a nMP seems old for the cost & if you going to use a egpu any way why pay for dual gpu's (that are old).
also dont forget if you are looking at egpu a laptop is also an option
to make things more messyps think apple still give a 1 year warranty with refurbished computers or if you are in uni there's educational discount
edit ^^ if you did not want the form factor id say look at hackintosh for value/speed
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^^ xeons from my understanding may be better binned run at same clocks at lower power or cooler but only by a touch.
but they will be the same speed unless they have more instruction sets, so say a cmp with a W3680 will be about the same speed as a i7 980X (the xeon has a few extra virtualization features if you run vm's)
if you look at reviews or comparisons the W3680 vs the i7 980X are in margin of error difference.
http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-W3680-vs-Intel-Core-i7-980X
any way for the games listed Crysis 1, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Metro 2033, Starcraft 2 & Diablo 3
there all only going to use 2-3 cores (metro may be the only one to use more than 2?) so as long as you have a 4c cpu or 2C4T your fine & it's not like your trying to run the new beefcake games that can use 6 cores.
and clocks win over cores most the time!!
sounds like you want a nice form factor (and that kind of cuts the cmp, and relay it's old + you dont need a dual cpu) and a nMP seems old for the cost & if you going to use a egpu any way why pay for dual gpu's (that are old).
also dont forget if you are looking at egpu a laptop is also an option
Haha I’m moving away from the laptop.
The cMP I think will really be too big physically for where it would go. So to me the premium of a nMP is worth it and I’ll look into the small form factor Gigabyte 1070GTX egpu. I’ll also perhaps look more into the Mac Mini, the 2014 has access to service it and change the drives, just has soldered RAM. I believe it too has a Thunderbolt 2 port?
Either way it’ll be an adventure and fun getting it all working. Maybe Apple will surprise me with a new Mini with access to its components?
But I think I’ll wait a bit longer for the nMP prices to drop, would only get the base quad core anywa as it has higher clock speeds. I am still leaning towards this machine if I’m honest as it’s design is sexy!
But lots of good advice from you guys, I had no idea about the boot camp issues for instance!
Ok guys whilst I am deliberating my Mac Pro options their is one question I would also like help on.
Monitors, I don’t currently have one, I’ll need one with speakers built in, something around 23” to 27”, I was thinking of a second hand Apple monitor but not sure if that’s overkill?
I know Dell are alright, but what do you guys recommend? I don’t need the best colour accuracy, just something that scales well and works with Mac and Windows and has input options, oh and one that doesn’t make the electric metre spin.
Also one that doesn’t get really hot would be nice.
Any suggestions?
whilst I am deliberating my Mac Pro options their is one question I would also like help on.Monitors, I don’t currently have one, I’ll need one with speakers built in, something around 23” to 27”, I was thinking of a second hand Apple monitor but not sure if that’s overkill?
I know Dell are alright, but what do you guys recommend? I don’t need the best colour accuracy, just something that scales well and works with Mac and Windows and has input options, oh and one that doesn’t make the electric metre spin.
Also one that doesn’t get really hot would be nice.
Any suggestions?
Hmm looking at this video, I think an egpu may be overkill to what I want.
Perhaps the nMP second hand quad core, maybe when it’s cheaper and then upgrading to dual D500’s or 700’s once cheaper is a better option? Certainly a lot less fiddly.
And this video:
I also browsed eBay for the mid 2012 12 core cMP, the ones that are buy it now, of which is the majority on sale, are around £1500! That’s the same as the quad core nMP! Not the saving you‘d think, seems people are cashing in.
Perhaps the nMP second hand quad core, maybe when it’s cheaper and then upgrading to dual D500’s or 700’s once cheaper is a better option? Certainly a lot less fiddly.
And this video:
I also browsed eBay for the mid 2012 12 core cMP, the ones that are buy it now, of which is the majority on sale, are around £1500! That’s the same as the quad core nMP! Not the saving you‘d think, seems people are cashing in.
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More interesting to me than current Buy-it-now listings are previously sold listings (not just completed listings, which include items that ended but never sold). That will show you if people are actually paying £1500 for used 12 core cMPs. It may just be a matter of waiting for someone to list one cheaper (you can set ebay to email you when new listings meeting your search criteria are added) or making an offer on listings that allow it.
A lot of people list items Buy-it-Now with pie in the sky pricing hoping to bait a sucker. Ebay doesn't charge most people to list stuff, so if it's not something they need to sell urgently they have little to lose by advertising a high price. Doesn't mean they wouldn't accept less if someone asked or offered though.
Also, some big fish that still use the cMP (maybe they require PCIe slots or something) may be willing to pay inflated prices for one from that is 100% pristine, sourced from a specific vendor, etc.
I agree it would be foolish to spend £1500 on a cMP no matter what its configuration. FWIW I paid $400 USD for an excellent condition 2009 Quad Core over two years ago.
A lot of people list items Buy-it-Now with pie in the sky pricing hoping to bait a sucker. Ebay doesn't charge most people to list stuff, so if it's not something they need to sell urgently they have little to lose by advertising a high price. Doesn't mean they wouldn't accept less if someone asked or offered though.
Also, some big fish that still use the cMP (maybe they require PCIe slots or something) may be willing to pay inflated prices for one from that is 100% pristine, sourced from a specific vendor, etc.
I agree it would be foolish to spend £1500 on a cMP no matter what its configuration. FWIW I paid $400 USD for an excellent condition 2009 Quad Core over two years ago.
dual CPU macpro's are relay not worth it & no way is it worth close to £1500 !! unless it comes with a box made of gold or a pair of titan GPU's
anything that needs more than 6 cores is not worth ruining on a old macpro !! (unless it's super cheep)
the Threadripper 1950 X is only £650 on amazon uk at the mo thats 16c 32 T never mind the ryzen 2700 x is only £280 8c 12t
even the nMP has some cheep upgrade options as well as a newer cpu https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibility-list.1954766/
if you grabbed a 4C and ever wanted more a E5-2680 v2 10c 20t is £140 ish on ebay
and if like me your less interested about looks (and fixing things) a hack will be the future
anything that needs more than 6 cores is not worth ruining on a old macpro !! (unless it's super cheep)
the Threadripper 1950 X is only £650 on amazon uk at the mo thats 16c 32 T never mind the ryzen 2700 x is only £280 8c 12t
even the nMP has some cheep upgrade options as well as a newer cpu https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-cpu-compatibility-list.1954766/
if you grabbed a 4C and ever wanted more a E5-2680 v2 10c 20t is £140 ish on ebay
and if like me your less interested about looks (and fixing things) a hack will be the future
Think it is a bad time for buying a Mac Pro.
But good deals can be found I guess.
Prices haven't dropped much the last two years for cMP.
My friend bought a 3.1 for a 100 euros more than I did 2 years ago.
I would avoid a 3.1 nowdays anyway but he needed a backup Pro Tools workstation for the studio,
I couldn't convince him to buy a single xeon 6 core 4.1 or 5.1 or one capable of upgrading to 6 core.
Think a single socket 6 core cMP is probably the best bang for buck cMP ... or a 1.1, 2.1 if all you need
is Snow Leopard and Adobe CS6 not internet or graphics or connectivity ...
I love my 1.1, It has 16 TB back up storage and 32 gig ram now, can't believe It is 11/12 years old.
Still looks as new and runs flawless with It's vintage software.
Got a 3.1 two years ago, with a 500GB SATA SSD and a 750GB SATA SSD,
250 gig Bootable PCIe SSD ( doesn't add that much workflow performance ),
USB 3.0, GTX 680 for 4K display, 64gig ram downgraded to 48gig for the PCIe SSD ... and 2 spinners.
Running El Cap, I think It is a little more stable than my 6.1.
One year ago I bought a refurb 6.1, 4 core, D300 for 1400 euro's with 2 years of warrenty.
Added 64 gig Ram. 2 Akitio PCIe Thunderboxes, one with a 500GB blade the other with a 1TB blade.
And a USB 3 Enclosure with 4 spinners.
The new TB and USB enclosure workflow took some time, and money to get used to.
Had a lot of problems with High Sierra too ...
It is a nice Mac Mini with ports and power ... more like a portable Mac Pro.
It has two graphic cards, but not really the Mac to go to for graphics ... as using them will kill it.
But if you buy a "new" Mac mini, add usable stuff like RAM and SSD, your in the same price range
as a refurb 4 core, D300 ... if you can get something like EU 2 years warenty or Apple care.
Some TB3 Imac could be more interesting, for the guaranteed eGPU support.
Or any TB3 future release mac ... the problem, new releases are pretty slow.
Would love an eGPU for my nMP and Macbook Air, dumping support is just highly unpractical,
most people have a TB2 Mac I guess ...
I hated the trashcan, but once I had it and all the expensive thunderboxes and enclosures I really love It.
Would like another one, because I need a work computer at my girlfriends new apartment.
But I also would like a Windows Machine for Première and After FX.
A 27" Imac would be to big ... the new Macbook Pro's ... a quad core 13" with 16gig ram and an eGPU could be nice,
if proven reliable ...
For graphics, some sort of 4.1, 5.1 with a nice GPU.
No Thunderbolt being the downside.
Size is large but so will be your thunderbold exclosure park in modern macs,
that you want to keep 3m away at the least.
The 6.1 is one of the most easy, expendable and upgradable of the modern macs.
No TB3, or lack of TB2 eGPU support is a problem/annoyance ...
Price might be ok if you get a good deal on a refurb with 2 year warrenty or Apple care.
It's bordering a new mini with some speed or the cheapest Imac.
Even cheaper than a maxed out Macbook Air ...
Just not really the gaming, CGI, video, visual FX mac,
a cMP, Imac (pro), or TB3 macbook pro could be more safer if stressing GPU is what you are after.
Any IPS monitor will do I guess ... depends what you wanna do,
like HDPI, matte or glossy.
Decent 1920x1080 monitors are very cheap.
The 1920x1200 monitors more expensive but so much more comfortable.
Or a 27" 2560x1440 if you want more real estate.
I have a 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 24" and a 43" 4K
I just whished a went for a 27" 2560x1440 instead of the cheaper 1920x1080 monitor.
Sound on a lot of monitors might be even a little worse then the 6.1 build in speaker.
Something like refurb soundsticks from Harman Kardon for 99 euro will blow away any build in monitor speaker ...
A cMP and nMP are pretty different tools, once upgraded to your workflow and use,
both are old but still can be very capable workstations.
Never cheap as will be most of the upgrades.
But good deals can be found I guess.
Prices haven't dropped much the last two years for cMP.
My friend bought a 3.1 for a 100 euros more than I did 2 years ago.
I would avoid a 3.1 nowdays anyway but he needed a backup Pro Tools workstation for the studio,
I couldn't convince him to buy a single xeon 6 core 4.1 or 5.1 or one capable of upgrading to 6 core.
Think a single socket 6 core cMP is probably the best bang for buck cMP ... or a 1.1, 2.1 if all you need
is Snow Leopard and Adobe CS6 not internet or graphics or connectivity ...
I love my 1.1, It has 16 TB back up storage and 32 gig ram now, can't believe It is 11/12 years old.
Still looks as new and runs flawless with It's vintage software.
Got a 3.1 two years ago, with a 500GB SATA SSD and a 750GB SATA SSD,
250 gig Bootable PCIe SSD ( doesn't add that much workflow performance ),
USB 3.0, GTX 680 for 4K display, 64gig ram downgraded to 48gig for the PCIe SSD ... and 2 spinners.
Running El Cap, I think It is a little more stable than my 6.1.
One year ago I bought a refurb 6.1, 4 core, D300 for 1400 euro's with 2 years of warrenty.
Added 64 gig Ram. 2 Akitio PCIe Thunderboxes, one with a 500GB blade the other with a 1TB blade.
And a USB 3 Enclosure with 4 spinners.
The new TB and USB enclosure workflow took some time, and money to get used to.
Had a lot of problems with High Sierra too ...
It is a nice Mac Mini with ports and power ... more like a portable Mac Pro.
It has two graphic cards, but not really the Mac to go to for graphics ... as using them will kill it.
But if you buy a "new" Mac mini, add usable stuff like RAM and SSD, your in the same price range
as a refurb 4 core, D300 ... if you can get something like EU 2 years warenty or Apple care.
Some TB3 Imac could be more interesting, for the guaranteed eGPU support.
Or any TB3 future release mac ... the problem, new releases are pretty slow.
Would love an eGPU for my nMP and Macbook Air, dumping support is just highly unpractical,
most people have a TB2 Mac I guess ...
I hated the trashcan, but once I had it and all the expensive thunderboxes and enclosures I really love It.
Would like another one, because I need a work computer at my girlfriends new apartment.
But I also would like a Windows Machine for Première and After FX.
A 27" Imac would be to big ... the new Macbook Pro's ... a quad core 13" with 16gig ram and an eGPU could be nice,
if proven reliable ...
For graphics, some sort of 4.1, 5.1 with a nice GPU.
No Thunderbolt being the downside.
Size is large but so will be your thunderbold exclosure park in modern macs,
that you want to keep 3m away at the least.
The 6.1 is one of the most easy, expendable and upgradable of the modern macs.
No TB3, or lack of TB2 eGPU support is a problem/annoyance ...
Price might be ok if you get a good deal on a refurb with 2 year warrenty or Apple care.
It's bordering a new mini with some speed or the cheapest Imac.
Even cheaper than a maxed out Macbook Air ...
Just not really the gaming, CGI, video, visual FX mac,
a cMP, Imac (pro), or TB3 macbook pro could be more safer if stressing GPU is what you are after.
Any IPS monitor will do I guess ... depends what you wanna do,
like HDPI, matte or glossy.
Decent 1920x1080 monitors are very cheap.
The 1920x1200 monitors more expensive but so much more comfortable.
Or a 27" 2560x1440 if you want more real estate.
I have a 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 24" and a 43" 4K
I just whished a went for a 27" 2560x1440 instead of the cheaper 1920x1080 monitor.
Sound on a lot of monitors might be even a little worse then the 6.1 build in speaker.
Something like refurb soundsticks from Harman Kardon for 99 euro will blow away any build in monitor speaker ...
A cMP and nMP are pretty different tools, once upgraded to your workflow and use,
both are old but still can be very capable workstations.
Never cheap as will be most of the upgrades.
750 pounds for default dual CPUs 6 GB 1 TB 5770, 1100 pounds 48 GB x5670 1 TB 5770 prices are fair, here in Turkey at the moment for the end consumer, including seller's profit. If you have a friend who's in the business, you'll get better prices.
Wrong. Dual x5670s, x5680s, x5690s are like running two i7-2600K side by side (you can't tho) multihread performance. Add a mobo, an a class 980W Delta CPU, best case on earth (this case on its own could be 500 USD or more if it was sold as a PC case. Don't forget overpriced RAM sticks! Consumer grade mobos, PSUs etc. all fail prematurely. I have seen many. cMP uses ECC RAM and XEON. Stability, anyone?
nMP is an expensive toy, at its best. A hack is, well a hack. Could only be as stable as a hack goes.
Thanks for the replies, I don’t currently have the money now but am going to save. I want the 6.1 and I think for my use it will be fine. I may aim for a six core or quad core with D700’s, this may end up cheaper then looking for a pair of D700’s after. The rest I don’t care as memory and SSD can come from cheaper none Apple brands.
I am happy to strip the computer down and service it more then messing around with getting an egpu not to work! Reading into it it is a passion to get one to work, or to get a decent gpu to work in the cMP.
I have always loved the nMP design ever since I first saw it. Now of course the new one may look even better..
I am happy to strip the computer down and service it more then messing around with getting an egpu not to work! Reading into it it is a passion to get one to work, or to get a decent gpu to work in the cMP.
I have always loved the nMP design ever since I first saw it. Now of course the new one may look even better..