Can anyone measure the hole spacing on the dual CPU northbridge heatsink?
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Resolved Mac Pro Heatsink, northbridge rivet, loud fan
- Thread starter technosprout
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i had same issues - random shutdowns & restarts, red led warning on cpu board, (much later i got istat menu to read sensors..) =127*C temps on northbridge tdiode.
anyway i slid the cpu tray out to find one spring rivet (the orig black type) rattling around and was missing from NB heatsink, the heatsink was slightly raised as with no rivet holding it down. amazed the tiny metal spring that holds the rivet in wasnt causing any shorts on the circuits!
the white larger riverts were sent from a mac upgrade company - (the same company that upgraded my 4,1 8 core 2.93 to 5,1 12 core 3.46 - but was out of warrnty by now)
the white rivets looked way too high but the type they sent actually fit perfectly, the cpu heatsink is machined with voids underneath and they're in the right place to allow for the taller rivets.
i had to reseat the cpu/HS thats above the NB/HS, as to get to the rivets you need to get the cpu/HS off first. scary stuff as the CPU lifted up with the HS the paste was obviously old/dry!
using a hair dryer to heat and loosen the paste and the cpu slid off, i cleaned up the NB/HS and the cpu/HS old dry paste and applied new paste and reseated the NB/HS, then the cpu/HS.
nice startup and no red LEDs and temps down to 60-70*C.
phew, encouraged by all the help online, it seems many are suffering the dreaded old black rivets breaking, but its definitely something im glad i tried as i rate my mac pro 2009 flashed 4,1 to 5,1, dual hex 3.46.
cheers
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M3 Nut & Bolt technique works. You can use the springs from the existing rivets.
Came across this old thread after upgrading my dual CPU's (E5620) on the 5.1 to 2 x E5675's.
I wanted to check the CPU temps under load after install under load - no red lights on mobo, but had to be sure.
I was kinda shocked to see the Northbridge running at 81c (178F) - but it seemed to be a steady temperature even under load.
Even so, it wasn't sitting well with me, but the thought of mucking about with the seating of the heatsink wasn't something I wanted to do right off the bat, until I'd experimented more.
Got hold of Macs Fan Control ( https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control/download ) and simply set it up like this:
Even under maximum load - running cinebench / geekbench / logic pro / photoshop at the same time, it's kept at 63c (145F).
The two settings above in F are 123 & 178 respectively.
I experimented also setting the Exhaust fan the same, it made a minor difference of about 2c (35F) and a whack load of noise, so I decided it wasn't necessary.
The BOOSTA fan at 2300rpm is barely audible with the case closed up.
This seems to be the sweet spot, setting the values above lower for "Temperature that fan speed will increase from", starts to become audible at around 45c (113F) - basically, when it gets over 2500rpm. Still not too annoying, but annoying enough.
Problem solved, with the added benefit that the CPU A diode now only runs 5c (41F) higher than CPU B - normally, it's about 10c (50F) higher - which makes sense.
I'm not sure if it was the CPU upgrade which increased the Northbridge temperature - but best to be sure.
I've had the Mac for 3 years ( https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-eight-core-2.4-mid-2010-westmere-specs.html ) - and prior to this, it sat unplugged in a server room for probably 2 years, so I guess it's had 7 to 8 years active service without a hitch, but with the original CPU's.
I wanted to check the CPU temps under load after install under load - no red lights on mobo, but had to be sure.
I was kinda shocked to see the Northbridge running at 81c (178F) - but it seemed to be a steady temperature even under load.
Even so, it wasn't sitting well with me, but the thought of mucking about with the seating of the heatsink wasn't something I wanted to do right off the bat, until I'd experimented more.
Got hold of Macs Fan Control ( https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control/download ) and simply set it up like this:
Even under maximum load - running cinebench / geekbench / logic pro / photoshop at the same time, it's kept at 63c (145F).
The two settings above in F are 123 & 178 respectively.
I experimented also setting the Exhaust fan the same, it made a minor difference of about 2c (35F) and a whack load of noise, so I decided it wasn't necessary.
The BOOSTA fan at 2300rpm is barely audible with the case closed up.
This seems to be the sweet spot, setting the values above lower for "Temperature that fan speed will increase from", starts to become audible at around 45c (113F) - basically, when it gets over 2500rpm. Still not too annoying, but annoying enough.
Problem solved, with the added benefit that the CPU A diode now only runs 5c (41F) higher than CPU B - normally, it's about 10c (50F) higher - which makes sense.
I'm not sure if it was the CPU upgrade which increased the Northbridge temperature - but best to be sure.
I've had the Mac for 3 years ( https://everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_pro/specs/mac-pro-eight-core-2.4-mid-2010-westmere-specs.html ) - and prior to this, it sat unplugged in a server room for probably 2 years, so I guess it's had 7 to 8 years active service without a hitch, but with the original CPU's.
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It's mid-Autumen now ( Japan ) and with cMP fan control set to auto and with just ONE Hi-CFM USB ( 50mm X 50 mm x 10 mm ) fan installed on the Northbridge Tdiode heatsink my iStata Menus temp is 58°C.
Personally, I consider a steady 81°C to be above normal.
81°C in that area is 'slowly roasting ' everything around it.
If you have a genuine 5,1 removing the CPU heatsink to check your Northbeidge for the cleaning / de-dusting / rivet check etc. of and re-application of a good Thermal paste involves minimal hardship.
Definitely cheaper than buying a replacement dual CPU tray which I had to do early last year ( AUS$ 650 ) .
( de-dust the area around the Exhaust fans - including the 'cheesegrater holes - shut down & remove the CPU tray.)
Personally, I consider a steady 81°C to be above normal.
81°C in that area is 'slowly roasting ' everything around it.
If you have a genuine 5,1 removing the CPU heatsink to check your Northbeidge for the cleaning / de-dusting / rivet check etc. of and re-application of a good Thermal paste involves minimal hardship.
Definitely cheaper than buying a replacement dual CPU tray which I had to do early last year ( AUS$ 650 ) .
( de-dust the area around the Exhaust fans - including the 'cheesegrater holes - shut down & remove the CPU tray.)
Thanks for the advise, for now, I've got it down to 63°C which will do whilst I research a bit more - I have to admit, running fan control software isn't the best solution, but I'm super glad I've at least done something temporary as a 'fix' - as you say, a replacement is crazy expensive, especially considering I've recently spent about £400 (about USD $500) on an RX 580, a 1TB NVME, 16gb more ram and the dual CPU upgrade.
EDIT: Just had a quick look at the state of my Northbridge heat sink / rivets - I can see no reason to do anything just yet, everything clean as a whistle, looks as good as new - zero signs of fatigue/melting. I've bumped the BOOSTA fan to kick in at 32°C - fan running over 3000rpm, diode now at 58°C. It's a little bit noisy, noticeable background hum.
Having said that, it's Autumn here in the UK - so absolutely an upgrade to do before spring/summer now I've got new CPU's in.
Question : Do faster CPU's = hotter Northbridge? I can't find any reliable information that this would be the case?
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Just de-dusting your cMP will result in it ending up a little cooler everywhere, that means . .
1. Cleaning all the fan blade to a shiny finish = more hot air moved.
2. Using canned air, blow out ALL of the cMP ;cheese grater' holes.
3. Use a soft, long haired brush on the motherboard AKA ' backplane ' .
4. Google how to remove your PSU ( no so hard ). . remove it. . blow out everywhere but don't touch the innards - dangerous.
5. Make sure that your cMP has a decently large, breathing in my case ( Japan ) space at the rear for hot air
to dissipate.
6. if you don't use DVD much . .remove the DVD drive cage entirely = more air to the PSU.
Also you can just plug in cooler SSDS up again the DVD cage area's walls.
7. Spinner HDDs run surprisingly hot . .. remove them - change to SSDs plus M.2 NVMe
the result will be a considerably cooler PCIe area space.
Summer is your enemy. In my case, every year in early July ( in Japan ), I perform all of the above.
Get registered iStat Menus. . 100% worth it.
All of the above will go to extending your 4,1 or 5,2's working life. I spent 5 months this year from devoted to cooling down my 4,1>5,1 to what I consider to be ' reasonable operating temps and can now confidently say that I succeeded.
Wish that I'd done it much sooner.
1. Cleaning all the fan blade to a shiny finish = more hot air moved.
2. Using canned air, blow out ALL of the cMP ;cheese grater' holes.
3. Use a soft, long haired brush on the motherboard AKA ' backplane ' .
4. Google how to remove your PSU ( no so hard ). . remove it. . blow out everywhere but don't touch the innards - dangerous.
5. Make sure that your cMP has a decently large, breathing in my case ( Japan ) space at the rear for hot air
to dissipate.
6. if you don't use DVD much . .remove the DVD drive cage entirely = more air to the PSU.
Also you can just plug in cooler SSDS up again the DVD cage area's walls.
7. Spinner HDDs run surprisingly hot . .. remove them - change to SSDs plus M.2 NVMe
the result will be a considerably cooler PCIe area space.
Summer is your enemy. In my case, every year in early July ( in Japan ), I perform all of the above.
Get registered iStat Menus. . 100% worth it.
All of the above will go to extending your 4,1 or 5,2's working life. I spent 5 months this year from devoted to cooling down my 4,1>5,1 to what I consider to be ' reasonable operating temps and can now confidently say that I succeeded.
Wish that I'd done it much sooner.
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Awesome - thanks for the tips!
I'm kinda lucky right now the temperature is getting cooler, plus my 5.1 sits on the ground in a summerhouse - wooden floor. Even with my small oil heater in Autumn/winter, I have to wear thick socks.
It actually gets so cold in here at floor level, in mid-winter, my 5.1 doesn't turn on first go (which is slightly worrying) - it sort of needs a 'kick start' - the power LED will go on, but no chime. I have to turn it off and on again. The big concern is condensation forming as it heats up, so I tend to keep the oil heater on at a very low temperature when I'm not in the summerhouse. (also to protect my guitars!)
I try to keep it lowest ambient in the summer house at around 10°C.
It's expensive to keep this heating going, but it does mean my Mac will turn on first time even on the coldest day.
Summer is the complete opposite - obviously. The thermals of a wooden structure aren't the most consistent, so I absolutely will need to sort that Northbridge out.
I'm kinda lucky right now the temperature is getting cooler, plus my 5.1 sits on the ground in a summerhouse - wooden floor. Even with my small oil heater in Autumn/winter, I have to wear thick socks.
It actually gets so cold in here at floor level, in mid-winter, my 5.1 doesn't turn on first go (which is slightly worrying) - it sort of needs a 'kick start' - the power LED will go on, but no chime. I have to turn it off and on again. The big concern is condensation forming as it heats up, so I tend to keep the oil heater on at a very low temperature when I'm not in the summerhouse. (also to protect my guitars!)
I try to keep it lowest ambient in the summer house at around 10°C.
It's expensive to keep this heating going, but it does mean my Mac will turn on first time even on the coldest day.
Summer is the complete opposite - obviously. The thermals of a wooden structure aren't the most consistent, so I absolutely will need to sort that Northbridge out.
no chime
Do the NVRAM re-set THREE time CONSECUTIVELY= keep holding down the keys for three re-starts.
If you hear the 'Happy Mac ' chime .. the 2nd. chime should be a little louder than the 1st. chime - if it is audible at all.
Hope this fixes it for you.
Do the NVRAM re-set THREE time CONSECUTIVELY= keep holding down the keys for three re-starts.
If you hear the 'Happy Mac ' chime .. the 2nd. chime should be a little louder than the 1st. chime - if it is audible at all.
Hope this fixes it for you.
Oh - no - it's totally fine unless the Mac gets too cold. I never figured that would be the case, but it makes sense.
We're talking below 0°C, with an aluminium body, at floor level - when I first noticed the problem, the case was so cold to the touch it almost hurt - such are the thermals of the material.
Whilst cold (within reasonable levels), won't do any damage, the problem can occur as it heats up - condensation = water damage.
EDIT: When I say floor level, the summerhouse sits on a concrete base embedded in the ground, so the mac is literally 30cm above ground level - and with a hard frost, it gets crazy crazy cold in my summerhouse!
i agree . . . 0°C or below slows me down too . ... 😇 .. it's still a good idea to do the NVRAM re-set occasionally just in case errors accumulate, creep in.
Where are you ? Alaska / Iceland ?
Here in mid-Japan the average lowest temps are around 2~ 4°C . .then my cMP becomes a nice room heater.
Where are you ? Alaska / Iceland ?
Here in mid-Japan the average lowest temps are around 2~ 4°C . .then my cMP becomes a nice room heater.
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I'm in the cotswolds, in the United Kingdom.
It doesn't get too cold in the UK in the South, probably quite similar to where you are.
We do rarely see temperatures sub-zero - I think the coldest in the last 10 years where I live has been about -10°C overnight, but it's usually averaging about the same as you get.
EDIT: Yeah, so when I say 'crazy crazy cold' - it's all relative. It's cold *for me*, but I'm sure those living in alaska or Iceland would laugh and say 'it's t-shirt weather!'
Aye, cMPs love winter, but like most computers, they don't like carpets!
That's one of the reasons my cMP stays so clean inside - wooden floor.
When I did the CPU upgrade, given the cMP hadn't been properly cleaned for 2 years, there was hardly any dust - just a very light dusting on the heatsinks and board.
Even between the blades of the heatsinks, there was next to no dust - then again, the cMP case is very adept at keeping things clean.
That's one of the reasons my cMP stays so clean inside - wooden floor.
When I did the CPU upgrade, given the cMP hadn't been properly cleaned for 2 years, there was hardly any dust - just a very light dusting on the heatsinks and board.
Even between the blades of the heatsinks, there was next to no dust - then again, the cMP case is very adept at keeping things clean.
Ok, so taking some of the easy to do advise from MIKX, I removed the optical drive chassis and gave the entire cMP a maximum air blow clean - I've got a shop vac that has a super powerful blow speed.
Coupled with a light bristle brush, I removed a good deal of dust and muck I hadn't noticed on first inspection.
Without any fan speed tools running, I'm totally amazed at the difference of the northbridge chip.
I've run geek bench 4, cinebench, logic pro and photoshop at the same time, pushing the system to the max for 20 minutes.
The northbridge, which was previously hitting 81°C is now at 71°C - a 10°C difference just from these super easy to do things. The entire system is now cooler - the CPU's by about 5°C, the ambient is down 1°C to 27°C.
Seriously, I haven't even got into cleaning up the northbridge heatsink and applying fresh thermal paste yet and I'm already ahead.
Many thanks MIKX - these things seem so obvious to do, yet I've always taken it foregranted.
EDIT: what is interesting now, with no load, the northbridge goes down to 67°C, but when upping the BOOSTA speed based on the same sensor settings I applied originally, the fan is now only at 1300rpm and achieves the same temperature decrease it did at 2300rpm - yeah, I know, these things are probably super obvious to many, but I never really paid that much attention to the dust that can accumulate inside the case and on the fan blades. They weren't terrible - I've seen some horror stories in the past, but clearly, getting them as squeaky clean as possible makes a MASSIVE difference.
Just goes to show, sometimes the extreme measures aren't what is needed, such as reseating the entire northbridge with metal rivets - just a bit of general TLC is often all you need.
Coupled with a light bristle brush, I removed a good deal of dust and muck I hadn't noticed on first inspection.
Without any fan speed tools running, I'm totally amazed at the difference of the northbridge chip.
I've run geek bench 4, cinebench, logic pro and photoshop at the same time, pushing the system to the max for 20 minutes.
The northbridge, which was previously hitting 81°C is now at 71°C - a 10°C difference just from these super easy to do things. The entire system is now cooler - the CPU's by about 5°C, the ambient is down 1°C to 27°C.
Seriously, I haven't even got into cleaning up the northbridge heatsink and applying fresh thermal paste yet and I'm already ahead.
Many thanks MIKX - these things seem so obvious to do, yet I've always taken it foregranted.
EDIT: what is interesting now, with no load, the northbridge goes down to 67°C, but when upping the BOOSTA speed based on the same sensor settings I applied originally, the fan is now only at 1300rpm and achieves the same temperature decrease it did at 2300rpm - yeah, I know, these things are probably super obvious to many, but I never really paid that much attention to the dust that can accumulate inside the case and on the fan blades. They weren't terrible - I've seen some horror stories in the past, but clearly, getting them as squeaky clean as possible makes a MASSIVE difference.
Just goes to show, sometimes the extreme measures aren't what is needed, such as reseating the entire northbridge with metal rivets - just a bit of general TLC is often all you need.
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For what it's worth . ..
Room temp is 20°C. cMP System ambient is currently at 28°C. Northbridge Tdiode is at 57°C with all fans cMP controlled .. but I still have my HI-CFM 50 x 50 x 10 mm USB fan aimed at the Northbridge Tdiode heatsink.
MSI Armor RX 580 8gb is @ 40°C . iStat Menus is reporting 14watts - no videos playing at present.
Room temp is 20°C. cMP System ambient is currently at 28°C. Northbridge Tdiode is at 57°C with all fans cMP controlled .. but I still have my HI-CFM 50 x 50 x 10 mm USB fan aimed at the Northbridge Tdiode heatsink.
MSI Armor RX 580 8gb is @ 40°C . iStat Menus is reporting 14watts - no videos playing at present.
Hello everyone, I just installed Istat Menu and I'm worried about the temperature of Northbridge Tdiode. The Mac has been unstuck for an hour and I do not do anything special with it and it indicates a temperature of 120 ° (the office is at 20 °, we are in autumn). Is this the sign that one of the radiator screws is broken? I changed the processor three years ago by a w3680, at the time I did not know the case of the screws of the radiator and I did not see anything special. Can we see if the screws are broken without disassembling the big radiator of the processors?
I don't have any particular problems with my Mac, it is only the display of this temperature that raises me question.
Thank you
[automerge]1575115840[/automerge]
For more precision, it's a 4.1> 5.1 single processor six hearts 3.33gz, 16gb of ram running under Mojave 10.14.6.
It has 1 AHCI SSD on PCIe card, 3 SSD SATA and 1 HDD SATA. I have a Sapphire Pulse RX580 8go powered by a double mini cable 6 pins to 8 pins.
I don't have any particular problems with my Mac, it is only the display of this temperature that raises me question.
Thank you
[automerge]1575115840[/automerge]
For more precision, it's a 4.1> 5.1 single processor six hearts 3.33gz, 16gb of ram running under Mojave 10.14.6.
It has 1 AHCI SSD on PCIe card, 3 SSD SATA and 1 HDD SATA. I have a Sapphire Pulse RX580 8go powered by a double mini cable 6 pins to 8 pins.
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Most likely the NB heatsink screw is broken
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...dge-heat-sink-on-2009-mac-pro-2x2-26.1637891/
It's relatively rare for single processor cMP, because the NB runs a bit cooler.
But it still can happen.
For single processor cMP, you have to remove the CPU heatsink to inspect the NB heatsink properly.
The diagnosis quickly fell, I pulled out the Mac Pro's daughter board and by barely leaning it I heard a "gling" with a rivet spring go under the big stiffener.
Already, I had a good intuission to take advantage of the black friday offer of istat menu that I had just installed this morning and that put me in doubt about this high temperature.
On the other hand I am very annoyed, I am in full work of video and it will have to find a solution quickly.
Can you tell me what to replace these rivets? I looked fast on the internet but I did not see anything. Today I can go to a DIY store, I saw that some had adapted screws, what models should I take?
Thanks for your help
Already, I had a good intuission to take advantage of the black friday offer of istat menu that I had just installed this morning and that put me in doubt about this high temperature.
On the other hand I am very annoyed, I am in full work of video and it will have to find a solution quickly.
Can you tell me what to replace these rivets? I looked fast on the internet but I did not see anything. Today I can go to a DIY store, I saw that some had adapted screws, what models should I take?
Thanks for your help
You can use small zip tie to replace that rivet.
And few more proper solutions in the link I posted above.
You can even use thermal adhesive to replace the thermal paste. So that, no need to worry about rivet / screw failure.
I managed to make a repair with screws. Already, first good news the Mac Pro has restarted, the temperature of Northbridge Tdiode is now 50 ° at the moment (I turned on the Mac 5 minutes ago).
On the other hand I notice that the temperature CPU relative relative to ProcHot, is raised to 67 ° at the start, there it turns in the 60 - 64 ° and varies not badly. It seems to me that before disassembly it was around 45 ° but I'm not sure.
I did, however, put some Arctic 5 thermal paste on hand.
On the other hand I notice that the temperature CPU relative relative to ProcHot, is raised to 67 ° at the start, there it turns in the 60 - 64 ° and varies not badly. It seems to me that before disassembly it was around 45 ° but I'm not sure.
I did, however, put some Arctic 5 thermal paste on hand.
That's "relative to Processor hot", a count down counter. Which means, the higher, the better. If that drop to zero, then your processor is overheating.
I just made a small export under FCPX and actually, when the processor is working, the temperature of ProcHot decreases.
So if ProcHot is = 0 the proceseur is overheating, this function upside down is that? So, without doing anything particular, it has returned to 65 -68 ° so you seem so correct? I was not mistaken when going up the Mac? lol
So if ProcHot is = 0 the proceseur is overheating, this function upside down is that? So, without doing anything particular, it has returned to 65 -68 ° so you seem so correct? I was not mistaken when going up the Mac? lol
Hi all - reviving this old thread. I'm working on a Mac Pro 4,1->5,1 and replaced the dual CPUs but now Northbridge diode appears hot, especially compared to the Northbridge heatsink. The machine is also becomes unresponsive during light use.
Screenshots attached (sorry for photos, the machine keeps freezing up as mentioned which makes it difficult).
Should I replace the Northbridge Heatsink thermal paste? I saw the very useful houseofmoth video
but I'm a bit confused about the exact rivets to buy as there are different sizes.
Could someone please confirm I should replace the Northbridge heatsink thermal paste and please post an updated eBay/Aliexpress link for the rivets? Thanks!
Screenshots attached (sorry for photos, the machine keeps freezing up as mentioned which makes it difficult).
Should I replace the Northbridge Heatsink thermal paste? I saw the very useful houseofmoth video
Could someone please confirm I should replace the Northbridge heatsink thermal paste and please post an updated eBay/Aliexpress link for the rivets? Thanks!
Attachments
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A Northbridge repaste and new "rivets" is urgent: the delta NB diode - NB heatsink is 48 degrees so there is (almost) no contact between the die and the heatsink.
Without immediate action you may cook the NorthBridge chip.
After a correctly applied repaste delta NB should be ~ 12 degrees maximum at idle.
You can replace the rivets by M3x16mm nylon or metal nuts, bolts and washers.
Important is to use the original springs to maintain the same pressure on the die after replacing the clips.
It's not necessary to get a top-tier thermal paste ; Arctic silver , MX4 etc etc will do fine.
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