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Mac Pro - Light Peak backward compatibility

Would not make any sense for the port to be limited that way. I'm quite sure AppleInsider is full of it. We will know soon enough.

I have my hopes set high that there will be a Mac compatible Thunderbolt PCI-E card sooner than later. It would be nice to skip eSATA and USB 3 altogether.
 
Evil Spoonman said:
Would not make any sense for the port to be limited that way. I'm quite sure AppleInsider is full of it. We will know soon enough.

I have my hopes set high that there will be a Mac compatible Thunderbolt PCI-E card sooner than later. It would be nice to skip eSATA and USB 3 altogether.
Click to expand...

I hope for the best... but as I said before, I'm not sure. The thing is that it should be possible to have a PCIe card, since the data transfer ratio is limited by the PCIe even in the new ones, putting the TB chip in a PCIe card seems possible to me (instead of putting it in the logic board, as Intel says is necessary) I'm not sure, I'm not engineer, but....

Let's hope for the best.....
 
I think TB will be onboard on the new Pro and Apple won't release an upgrade card.
Why? Because they want us to buy a new Mac Pro! That's what they always do.

I hope for third party cards, though. An integrated low end GPU on the card should be feasible and not prevent the system from using other high-end graphics cards.
 
mjohnson1212 said:
PCI Express card might not be coming after all.
Click to expand...

There WILL be expansion cards. Intel only needs to back off the "direct access to the video card" bit. There is no reason it cant pull the video through the PCI-E bus or disable video capability completely. PCI-E 3.0 has bandwidth many times what even two CopperPeak ports do.
 
allupons said:
This is insanely disappointing news if true. The entire point of a mac pro is expandability and upgrades. If I can't get thunderbolt on my 2010 6 core mac pro, that would be beyond disappointing as it appears to be the I/O of the future regarding raid arrays, externals, and capture... depressing...
Click to expand...

Same here man :(
 
there is no way that this will only be able to run through a video card. Politics are the only hold up at this point. I am sure we will see an option for data only no video. If PC is to pick up this technology it will have to be diverted around the idea that it has to go through video card and only through the MDP. I am sure we will see some 3rd party cards out once they sort the technology out. It may not be cheap right off the bat but it will happen
 
chaosbunny said:
So, does this mean when a '11 Mac Pro comes with a new gpu with TB connections, existing Mac Pro owners won't be able to upgrade as well? Very confusing. :confused:
Click to expand...

It's very unlikely there will be a new MP in 2011. Next logical release point would be early 2012 with server class SB processors.

From a marketing perspective it would be in Apple's best interest to release a PCI T-Bolt option. i.e. MP sales will REALLLLLLLY slow down until a T-Bolt card/option is released. As a satisfied MP owner I would definitely NOT recommend the MP UNTIL this card/upgrade is made available.

cheers
JohnG
 
From CNet's live coverage;

10:25 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be TB PCIe cards it seems. You'll need a new computer.

10:34 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be add-in TB adapters, you'll need a new computer/motherboard that supports TB.
 
BubbaMc said:
From CNet's live coverage;

10:25 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be TB PCIe cards it seems. You'll need a new computer.

10:34 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be add-in TB adapters, you'll need a new computer/motherboard that supports TB.
Click to expand...

Again, there is no technical reason why there can't be a TB PCI-E card. It even started as a PCI-E card. As of CES they were still demoing it as a PCI-E card.

I'm pretty sure this is Intel saying they have no plans to produce a PCI-E card.
 
"Direct access to the motherboard" sounds like something that would kill the adoption of a new standard dead.
 
FluJunkie said:
"Direct access to the motherboard" sounds like something that would kill the adoption of a new standard dead.
Click to expand...

Do we know at this point what "direct access" exactly means? I think it is way to early to judge, especially considering the validity of the source (one day old rumour on CNET that hasn't been confirmed by any means!).

Graphics cards are usually connected via PCI express, no matter whether the GPU is soldered to the board or on an external PCP, the TB architecture diagram (although it's only a rather unsophisticated overview) doesn't show anything else.
 
FluJunkie said:
"Direct access to the motherboard" sounds like something that would kill the adoption of a new standard dead.
Click to expand...

On a technical basis, none of this needs to be on the motherboard. Firewire is very similar in implementation, it you can run Firewire off a PCI-E card.
 
or just kill the mac pro off (hope not)

picture this a six core sb in an imac with 4 sticks of 16gb ram and two not one t-bolt connections. that machine would kill off most macpro users .


of course I am hoping that is not apple's intent.

note I said the above machine would be good enough for most but not all mac pro people
 
You have to separate what you hope to be true from what probably is true...

What is likely to be more annoying is if you do purchase a new 2012 MacPro with Thunderbolt you'll then have to ditch that as well when the 2014 MacPro's with Lightningbolt come out!

I think we are in an age when Apple/Intel are realizing that the vast majority of users no longer need faster CPU's. My 2010 Hexcore CPU would probably last me 6 years if CPU performance was the only issue. So they add new features that force you to upgrade before you would otherwise need to.

Still if Intel standardizes on this, and we start to see it included on every motherboard made it could very well end up the new standard. It will just take longer to catch hold.
 
Mac Pro killed off by daisy chained mac-mini's
Modular will suite anyone's price point
"Who thought flowers could be so deadly!"
 
Last edited:
Ryan P said:
You have to separate what you hope to be true from what probably is true...

What is likely to be more annoying is if you do purchase a new 2012 MacPro with Thunderbolt you'll then have to ditch that as well when the 2014 MacPro's with Lightningbolt come out!

I think we are in an age when Apple/Intel are realizing that the vast majority of users no longer need faster CPU's. My 2010 Hexcore CPU would probably last me 6 years if CPU performance was the only issue. So they add new features that force you to upgrade before you would otherwise need to.

Still if Intel standardizes on this, and we start to see it included on every motherboard made it could very well end up the new standard. It will just take longer to catch hold.
Click to expand...


Actually Intel already said that today's thunderbolt connection will be fully compatible with light-based cables since the conversion from electrical signal to light would be in-cable, not in the board itself... So this is not the point.

The point is that Apple is totally abandoning the pro consumber, they discontinued the Xserve, they made Aperture totally for hobbyist when it was one of the finest apps for high end / pro photography, and now they are making the Mac Pro the last to get all the new features in the market...

This is simply ridiculous
 
lord-enzo said:
and now they are making the mac pro the last to get all the new features in the market...

This is simply ridiculous
Click to expand...

+1000

I bought a PPC G5 (smart move!) right before the Intel models came out. I was planning to finally upgrade within the next few months, but if I do, I'll again be screwed, instead of having a machine I could upgrade and keep for a long time.
 
lord-enzo said:
The point is that Apple is totally abandoning the pro consumber, they discontinued the Xserve, they made Aperture totally for hobbyist when it was one of the finest apps for high end / pro photography, and now they are making the Mac Pro the last to get all the new features in the market...

This is simply ridiculous
Click to expand...

Yeah... It's been this way since 2003.

New here?

All the major features - FW800, MDP, Intel chips, USB2... All came to notebooks before the Mac Pro.

Nothing to see here.
 
lord-enzo said:
The point is that Apple is totally abandoning the pro consumber, they discontinued the Xserve, they made Aperture totally for hobbyist when it was one of the finest apps for high end / pro photography, and now they are making the Mac Pro the last to get all the new features in the market...

This is simply ridiculous
Click to expand...

I'm curious... in what ways has Apple abandoned high-end/pro photographers with Aperture? It seems to me they have added features that might broaden their market to appeal to home users / hobby users, but I'm not aware of anything they did in the process that takes anything from the pro's? :confused:

Also, I believe they discontinued Xserve because it wasn't selling. I would interpret that as IT professionals abandoning Apple, not the other way around.

Finally, the Mac Pro refresh cycle is dependent on the launch of new Xeon processors... which is dictated by Intel's roadmap... Apple has no control over this. And with respect to Thunderbolt. Intel appears to be focused on integrated data/display signals with Thunderbolt and has gone as far as saying PCIe cards supporting a data only protocol are not in the cards. Again, this has nothing to do with Apple.

It's also worth noting the obvious that Thunderbolt is really less relevant to us Mac Pro owners as we've long had alternative expansion and interconnect choices (internal SATA, eSata or USB 3) that laptop users simply don't have. So while we have a bit more cable clutter to deal with, there's nothing that's being proposed for Thunderbolt that we can't do already with our Mac Pros. :)
 
VirtualRain said:
IIt's also worth noting the obvious that Thunderbolt is really less relevant to us Mac Pro owners as we've long had alternative expansion and interconnect choices (internal SATA, eSata or USB 3) that laptop users simply don't have. So while we have a bit more cable clutter to deal with, there's nothing that's being proposed for Thunderbolt that we can't do already with our Mac Pros. :)
Click to expand...

I would agree with this as well. Usually the reason stuff comes to the Mac Pro last/later is because the Mac Pro is the least in need.
 
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