I'm talking about build quality, not just the specs. Nobody buys a mac/alienware for the best specs for your money. Aesthetics goes a long way in my book.
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Mac Pro vs. Hackintosh
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I'm talking about build quality, not just the specs. Nobody buys a mac/alienware for the best specs for your money. Aesthetics goes a long way in my book.
I wouldn't call them hackers...Just people who can't wait for Apple or don't want to be gouged by Apple.
This is not a troll. I use a MacPro 2006 and is still going strong. Personally rate the OS higher than anything else out there but since the advent of the iPhone/IOS/iPad Apple desktop line up has been going pear-shaped.
Even the latest iMacs are starting to become a joke. The base model has no end user access to upgrade RAM. It costs about €1,400 and to future proof with memory you need to pay another €200 bringing it to €1,600. With the previous base model you paid about €1,200 and with less than €100 you could upgrade the RAM bringing it to €300. We are potentially paying €300 more. The 27" i7 iMac starts at about €2,300 and we are led to believe that Apple wants us to use that as a Pro machine.
So, you can see where a lot of Pros (not hackers) are looking at these Hackintoshes. Somebody I Know, a professional photographer has gone this route and has saved thousands when you take into account that he bought a high quality Dell display for €500 where a €1,000 Thunderbolt display goes. This is the route I may myself, what with recession and not being able to justify the premium €2,000 price tags.
Those new iMacs are also not end user serviceable and so on.
The problem is that not every Pro is going to have the inclination to built their own and this is where the rot could set in. Those users will eventually forsake OS X to be able to buy a workstation off the shelf. That in turn creates a brain drain in the Mac user community and Apple are left with their reputation depending on users who are basic consumers and products would need to be pitched at their level, in other words, remove all complex unnecessary advanced features.
This has consequences for me as a user. I am currently studying computer science. I have done some C#, java and Obcjective-C. If I see that at some point Apple going off the boil, I would perhaps be less interested in using objective-C.
Now what Apple could do in my mind (though I doubt this is what they will do this) is aim to drop the 20" & 27" iMac and have one 24" one with access to four memory slots and pitch it at €1,200 to €1,300. Introduce a new proper desktop that can be configured with i7s through to Xeons ranging from €1,400 to whatever price the highest configured Mac would cost. Have a new Thunderbolt display (27" at €700) which would at some point, if possible become Retina display. One could see, if the MacMini is not a seller seeing that dropped or the base unit mentioned above having a lower intro price point/parts spec to fill the gap.
All this would fit in with streamlining the product line 2+2 (two laptops and two desktops).
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As being as this thread is turning into a "what do I wish Apple would make thread" I will throw in my desires.
A range of user modifiable Enthusiast Class Macs with Core Series CPUs that build up to the Mac Pro line that have the Server Chipsets.
Low end would be something with a mini ITX sized motherboard and in a case like a SilverStone Fortress FT03 mini that allows 3 hard drives, and a dual slot PCIe to allow future expansion and GPU upgrades.
Then a bit bigger with the FT03 case and 4 PCIe slots and a mATX sized motherboard.
Then up to a ATX Class system with a bigger case looking like a small Mac Pro (but with a newer more modern design) that allows more flexibility and more multi-GPU options (of course they would have to make OSX finally support crossfire and SLI)
Finally come the professional level Mac Pro line with 2 bodies, firstly about the size of the current Pro and secondly a really series workstation with 16 RAM slots, SAS controllers and 8+ Hot swappable drive slots.
Ahhhh, we can only dream... And hackintosh until Apple realize that the enthusiast market is actually quite lucrative.
A range of user modifiable Enthusiast Class Macs with Core Series CPUs that build up to the Mac Pro line that have the Server Chipsets.
Low end would be something with a mini ITX sized motherboard and in a case like a SilverStone Fortress FT03 mini that allows 3 hard drives, and a dual slot PCIe to allow future expansion and GPU upgrades.
Then a bit bigger with the FT03 case and 4 PCIe slots and a mATX sized motherboard.
Then up to a ATX Class system with a bigger case looking like a small Mac Pro (but with a newer more modern design) that allows more flexibility and more multi-GPU options (of course they would have to make OSX finally support crossfire and SLI)
Finally come the professional level Mac Pro line with 2 bodies, firstly about the size of the current Pro and secondly a really series workstation with 16 RAM slots, SAS controllers and 8+ Hot swappable drive slots.
Ahhhh, we can only dream... And hackintosh until Apple realize that the enthusiast market is actually quite lucrative.
The BIG problem is that they both have about the same same performance. GPU options in the iMac are mobile options and now the mini doesn't even have a discrete GPU. It has the same Intel HD 4000 as my MacBook Air. That is lame. It's interesting that Apple was meant to have become upto date with the games, but there is no consumer level model that allows for the upgrade of GPUs.
It's no wonder the Mac Pro doesn't sell well. People switched over from windows 5 or so years ago from a platform that allows custom builds and Apple just keep releasing these premade unmodifiable boxes (which are really well made and designed). It's no wonder that the Hackintosh movement has built up so big.
I am sure Apple has taken note and is planning something to appease us!
It's no wonder the Mac Pro doesn't sell well. People switched over from windows 5 or so years ago from a platform that allows custom builds and Apple just keep releasing these premade unmodifiable boxes (which are really well made and designed). It's no wonder that the Hackintosh movement has built up so big.
I am sure Apple has taken note and is planning something to appease us!
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Later this year I might need to use Final Cut X so I need a Mac. I'm debating whether to buy an iMac/Mac Pro 2013 or build a hackintosh.
Getting separate PC parts I can build a powerful machine for a relatively low cost. But my concerns are that the components I buy will not work, and there is great value SSD I have my eye on. Also, by all accounts it is an extremely difficult task to build a hackintosh that might not work even if all the steps are followed.
Does anybody have any experience, is there a brilliant step-by-step guide for novices, and does a hackintosh only work with set parts?
Getting separate PC parts I can build a powerful machine for a relatively low cost. But my concerns are that the components I buy will not work, and there is great value SSD I have my eye on. Also, by all accounts it is an extremely difficult task to build a hackintosh that might not work even if all the steps are followed.
Does anybody have any experience, is there a brilliant step-by-step guide for novices, and does a hackintosh only work with set parts?
spend some time on the tonymac site. you'll learn everything you need - including which specific parts to buy for very few, if any, problems.
Second the TonyMacx86 recommendationInsanelyMac is also a good place to look. Building a hackintosh is pretty easy, there's a lot of supported hardware. Basically the only components you need to worry much about are the motherboard and CPU, and not much even then.
I think i will back to hackintoshes soon or later
I used to have hackintosh, then i bought an imac late 2009
I still using this today, but i fell this machine is getting old and my hardware upgrade choices offered by apple will do not attend my needs. I started about a year ago studying 3D, and i can't find a good mac for render still stuff, can't imagine animations how slow it will be...
Mac pro is a good choice? maybe yes
but for what price? lets face, this is damn expensive machine for a just okay rendering performance. I use osx since 2003, i had a macbook then i move to hackintoshes in 2005, in 2010 i bought an imac and now i think its time to back to hackintoshes.
1) i need powerful hardware for fast render still and animations 3d, for now i just need fast still, but this learn curve is infinite and soon i will start do more advanced mographing and rigging stuff
2) i don't want to left osx behind in this, left mac doesn't means anymore left osx. Thanks hackintosh for this
3) the most powerful macs buit by apple are expensive, i gonna expend the same amount of money in a custom build pc and it will be maybe 2 times faster and good as the best listed macpro.
I used to have hackintosh, then i bought an imac late 2009
I still using this today, but i fell this machine is getting old and my hardware upgrade choices offered by apple will do not attend my needs. I started about a year ago studying 3D, and i can't find a good mac for render still stuff, can't imagine animations how slow it will be...
Mac pro is a good choice? maybe yes
but for what price? lets face, this is damn expensive machine for a just okay rendering performance. I use osx since 2003, i had a macbook then i move to hackintoshes in 2005, in 2010 i bought an imac and now i think its time to back to hackintoshes.
1) i need powerful hardware for fast render still and animations 3d, for now i just need fast still, but this learn curve is infinite and soon i will start do more advanced mographing and rigging stuff
2) i don't want to left osx behind in this, left mac doesn't means anymore left osx. Thanks hackintosh for this
3) the most powerful macs buit by apple are expensive, i gonna expend the same amount of money in a custom build pc and it will be maybe 2 times faster and good as the best listed macpro.
You can buy and build a hackintosh with better build quality and looks + better perf than even the best MP
new egg anybody?
fyi, they have dual proc boards and ECC ram there available to consumers
I did that for fun in another thread
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Anyone can buy a nice case and good hardware. I'm just saying that Apple and Alienware make beautiful machines. I would never buy a new one because they are over priced. But I would take an Aurora case or a Mac Pro case over most ATX cases. And as an I.T. professional I appreciate the quality that they put into their products.
Silverstones are sexy,,
as a dude who builds computers for fun I like the flexibility of modern PC cases and standardized parts..
as a dude who builds computers for fun I like the flexibility of modern PC cases and standardized parts..
No, not correct. A handful of people over at TonyMac have built dual-SANDY Xeon Hacks, based on a user build. This particular user (don't have the link handy) has built the FASTEST Hackintosh that outperforms the best Mac Pro scores on Geekbench by a healthy margin.
Tutor, PunkNugget, braindeadmac, Echrei, myself and a couple of other folks are running overclocked EVGA SR-2 systems. Just check the geekbench scores and they destroy anything Apple offers.
OTOH I had just ordered last month the 27" iMac with upgraded CPU and GPU and cancelled when I heard about a possible new MacPro in 1-2 months.
Hackintoshing is fun and you learn a lot. You can get a very capable machine for less money.
The price you pay for it is with TIME.
I am at the point where I have probably more money than time and I decided that I will leave my SR-2 running Windows 7 and get a genuine new MacPro. If you are younger and have more time than money, I would definitely recommend to go the hackintosh route.
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Although Hackintoshes aren't for everybody, if you've got some savvy and you like being able to upgrade stuff like RAM, Hard drives and GPUs they can be a great choice.
I've got an i7 system which I now use full time as my work machine, after realizing that my 2008 machine just wasn't up to scratch anymore. It seems weird having a black PC box run OS X Mountain Lion so flawlessly at first, and I wish I'd spent more money on a decent case when I bought the system, but overall it's working out well. Everything does what it should...Sleep, Speedstep, awesome GPU capability, overclocking etc. The system light even blinks when it's sleeping.
I'd love to buy a new Mac Pro if / when Apple bring out a new model, but I have a feeling the price will put me off. I don't need Xeon processors, just i7's will do but I must be able to upgrade things myself and I don't want to buy a sealed unit.
I've got an i7 system which I now use full time as my work machine, after realizing that my 2008 machine just wasn't up to scratch anymore. It seems weird having a black PC box run OS X Mountain Lion so flawlessly at first, and I wish I'd spent more money on a decent case when I bought the system, but overall it's working out well. Everything does what it should...Sleep, Speedstep, awesome GPU capability, overclocking etc. The system light even blinks when it's sleeping.
I'd love to buy a new Mac Pro if / when Apple bring out a new model, but I have a feeling the price will put me off. I don't need Xeon processors, just i7's will do but I must be able to upgrade things myself and I don't want to buy a sealed unit.
The world's fastest Geekbench tested dual CPU Hackintoshes (aka WolfPack1 and WolfPack2 - I love N.C. State College Basketball and big, bad, wild, pack dogs) for 2010-2013 each currently run two underclocked Westmere 5680Xs, not Sandy Bees. Both score now over 24.7 in Cinebench 11.5 and, at least, 40,100 in Geekbench 2 under OSX. The most WolfPack1 would score when overclocked was 37,837 in Geekbench 2 and 23.1 in Cinebench 11.5 (December 28, 2010 @ 4:11 PM) under OSX; but they are still significantly faster than any current dual Sandy Bee Hack because those Hacks cannot yet take advantage of native power management. I have not felt the need to tweak/upgrade either WolfPack much in the last 16 months, except that I have put two GTX 580s in each of them, and have decided to run on them OSX 10.6.7 in addition to Win 7 and Open Suse 12.2 (the Open Suse and Win 7 scores are even higher). If you stick with 10.6.7 - that lean and mean version of OSX - there's nothing that yet has broken them or put them to shame, except maybe WolfPackPrime0 when running Windows Server or Open Suse 12.2. I have twelve WolfPacks (each with dual GTX cards) and four refurb Mac Pros (three 8-cores and one 12-core - each with dual GTX cards and running Windows in boot camp) that serve as slave renderers for Windows chores involving Cinema 4d and Adobe CS. WolfPackPrime0 is the master and also a slave renderer. I've just become an Octane renderer neophyte.
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To add to others' (very good) recommendation to check out tonymacx86, it's good to spend time to make sure a given motherboard and GPU will work. Some (like most of the new nvidia 6xx series) work out of the box, others (like the Radeon 6850 I'm using) require some more effort.
I got the Fractal Design Define R4 and couldn't be happier: I've got a quad-core Xeon (Ivy Bridge, which means it's almost as fast as the 6-core in the Mac Pro), Radeon 6850, 6 hard drives, and the thing is quieter than the Mac mini+external drive setup I was using previously. The whole thing runs a lot cooler, too!
A Hackintosh works easiest with certain/set parts. The Antec 1200 used to be my case of choice, but now I love the Silver Stone Raven series for single and dual (nonEVGA) CPU motherboards [ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...odeId=1&name=ATX Full Tower&SpeTabStoreType=1 ] for keeping the internals really cool. If you want a very fast system, heat dissipation is a prime consideration for me. That means that a case that releases heat from the top of the case gets the nod. The Ravens are designed to release PCI-e card heat, CPU heat, and in the case with the top mounted power supply, all major heat sources from the top of the case.
why doesn't apple just shut down the whole hackintosh community by I don't know um, OFFERING DECENT PRICES?!?!
Apple makes the best PC's, you'll never get an argument from me about that, but why so expensive?
people already proved that they can assemble the parts and build the system for WAY LESS buying parts AT RETAIL, and the OS only costs about 30 bucks, so why charge such high prices?
I never understood that.
Only reason I'm buying an imac fully loaded is because I have a slight discount (apple only offers employees REAL discounts lol) and because it's my first MAC, I definitely want the apple support...
Apple makes the best PC's, you'll never get an argument from me about that, but why so expensive?
people already proved that they can assemble the parts and build the system for WAY LESS buying parts AT RETAIL, and the OS only costs about 30 bucks, so why charge such high prices?
I never understood that.
Only reason I'm buying an imac fully loaded is because I have a slight discount (apple only offers employees REAL discounts lol) and because it's my first MAC, I definitely want the apple support...
History has a way of repeating itself. From a village around a river to dig your own well then back to living by a river (it just so happens to be a pipe in your front lawn). Mainframes + remote terminals gave way to own your own computer which is giving way to iPads & notebooks connected to a cloud.
Virtual server farms or design centers is the future guys. I'm sure we will all be building hackintoshes at some point before processing power is leased monthly.
Virtual server farms or design centers is the future guys. I'm sure we will all be building hackintoshes at some point before processing power is leased monthly.
Price is just one factor. To your first sentence you might add,"FOR (1) THE BASE SYSTEM AND MEMORY AND OTHER ADDONS (2) THE LATEST NVIDIA VIDEO CARDS, (3) A NON-iOSed OS, (4) A SYSTEM ALLOWING THE USER TO TWEAK THE CPU, MEMORY AND QPI WITHIN SAFE LIMITS, AND (5) REGULAR UPGRADES TO THE LINEUP TO ACCOUNT FOR THE LATEST CPUs AND OTHER ADVANCES SUCH AS USB 3, PCI-E 3, SATA 6, ETC.?!?!
ssls6 said:
Very astute - agreed that all who need local processing power will likely begin resorting to self-builds in the not too distant future, but I'm not sure that we'll be calling them Hackintoshes then because of the direction that Mac OS and now Windows seem to be taking with their iOSified bloatware.
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I seriously think the direction of closed OS's with app stores in Windows and OS X will drive certain people towards Linux if app stores become the only way to buy and install apps, and Macs just become sealed appliances that can't be tinkered with or upgraded. They'll probably still remain in a minority but I think the Linux user base will grow nevertheless.
Ironically (given that it's also a kind of app store) the development of Steam for Linux will most likely help as well.
Ironically (given that it's also a kind of app store) the development of Steam for Linux will most likely help as well.