Plenty of discounts on the max models. They tend to have the biggest discounts.
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MP All Models Mac Pro X,Y…WHAT IF…
- Thread starter ZombiePhysicist
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Plenty of discounts on the max models. They tend to have the biggest discounts.
But as I said, they'll only have them in base configurations. ie 1 TB drives, and with either 39 or 48 GB RAM, depending on the operational cores. No discounts as I said, on models people need for the longer haul ie 4TB / 128GB RAM configurations.
Linux scares me about lack of simplicity. But then - it really is what computing should be all about. And there's a lot more software out there for it. I just have to sharpen up my brain and give up on the addiction I have for software like FCP and Excel and I hate to say it, but Sketchup.
If you find a good alternative for Sketchup, with a dimilar workflow, let me know. I was certified as an operator years ago, but never followed the subscription versions, and keeping Make 2017 running under Ventura is a comedy show. If you have an iPad, and sidecar it as an extra display, Sketchup's measurements will display correctly. Otherwise they're upside down, and back to front.
It's still one of the most fun apps to noodle around in.
Not true. There have been huge discounts on 4 and 8 tb models with max ram.
Lowest M3 MacBook Pro 16-inch price
Compare M3 MacBook Pro 16-inch prices on every model from retailers like Best Buy, Amazon, B&H and Adorama.
prices.appleinsider.com
Right now $520 off the maxed out model. I’ve seen maxed out models with up to 1200 off at some times.
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That’s too bad your three had issues. We only had two in our department, one was a Protools server for a recording studio and the other part of an online edit suite. The only thing to die was the edit suite’s external raid that killed my feature right before COVID.
The server was replaced with a 2019 Mac Pro and the other with an M1 Ultra Mac Studio.
We’ve since added 40+ Mac Studios to our labs and office computers and they’ve been pretty good. A bit more versatile than the 21” iMacs they replaced.
Edit to add: an updated 5,1 like what you mentioned would definitely have been a more preferable move for existing users and hobbyists. Maybe they just wanted that “I put a fancy Mac in my showroom even if I don’t use it for anything but email” demographic.
Thanks for the link.Not true. There have been huge discounts on 4 and 8 tb models with max ram.
Lowest M3 MacBook Pro 16-inch price
Compare M3 MacBook Pro 16-inch prices on every model from retailers like Best Buy, Amazon, B&H and Adorama.
Right now $520 off the maxed out model. I’ve seen maxed out models with up to 1200 off at some times.
By the way, $520 off is not a huge discount, if the machine is expensive in the first place.
I looked at your site, and downloaded the data and sorted it.
Average is 8.1%. I don't think 8% discount is anything worthwhile getting excited about. Apple refurbs tend to be 15%. Some exceptions there every now and then.
The best discounts are for unbalanced configurations IMO.
ie Who wants to get a half TB disk these days? That is crazy. They are the biggest discounts.
Most larger discounts are for machines which have not enough disk capacity, or don't have enough memory to match the large disk capacity.
Would an 8 TB user not have 128 TB RAM? I doubt many users with notebooks would get 8TB without the full 128 RAM. One pays a huge wammy for 8 TB with Apple - the RAM cost penalty from Apple is less severe.
Likewise Apple gives an average discount for a 128 GB RAM unit but it only has 1 TB disk.
Would a 4TB user take just 36 GB RAM?
Would a 64 GB RAM beh satisfied with just 0.5 TB disk? 64 GB RAM means the user wants to use RAM and when that happens and the RAM runs out, Apple's OS vertualises by replacing RAM with disk space. A 64 TB RAM requirement would mandate more than a 0.5 TB drive.
IMO the sweet spots for such machines and considering Apple huge price for internal drives, is 2 TB and buy a thunderbolt setup, which is a much cheaper solution. But for 2TB, the discounts are much less.
Here are the machines and their discounts:
Disc 20.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 20.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 17.2% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 17.2% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 8TB, Silver
Disc 14.3% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 1TB, Silver
Disc 14.3% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 13.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 1TB, Silver
Disc 12.5% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 11.3% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 1TB, Silver
Disc 9.5% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 8.1% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 8.1% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 8TB, Space Black
Disc 8.1% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 7.9% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 7.7% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 7.6% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 7.6% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 7.4% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 7.3% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 7.3% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 7.3% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 8TB, Silver
Disc 7.2% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 7.2% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 7.2% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 1TB, Silver
Disc 7.2% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 7.1% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 7.1% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 7.1% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 7.1% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 7.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 7.% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 7.% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 1TB, Silver
Disc 7.% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 7.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 7.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 7.% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 7.% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 6.9% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 6.9% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 6.9% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 36GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 6.8% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 6.8% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 6.8% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 6.8% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 6.8% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 2TB, Silver
Disc 6.6% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 6.5% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 6.4% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 6.4% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 2TB, Space Black
Disc 6.3% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 6.3% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 6.% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 18GB, 4TB, Silver
Disc 6.% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 8TB, Space Black
Disc 5.8% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 4TB, Space Black
Disc 5.8% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 5.7% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 8TB, Space Black
Disc 5.6% : M3 Pro, 12C CPU, 18C GPU, 36GB, 512GB, Space Black
Disc 5.6% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 64GB, 1TB, Space Black
Disc 5.6% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 8TB, Silver
Disc 5.5% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 128GB, 512GB, Silver
Disc 5.4% : M3 Max, 16C CPU, 40C GPU, 48GB, 8TB, Silver
Disc 4.9% : M3 Max, 14C CPU, 30C GPU, 96GB, 1TB, Silver
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So weve established your prior assertion is false (no discounts on maxed out machines) and now we’ve moved on to discussing how much of a discount price. Reminds me of an old joke.
Certainly bigger than Apple. Comparing refurb to new isn’t Apples to Apple. ANd like I said, there have been times where I’ve seen 1200 off. There are times when the big maxed out machines have the biggest percentage off. You just have to watch for the deals.
You can’t expect sales to be at peak all the time. 8% avg discount on an average Tuesday is nothing to sneeze at imo. YMMV.
Read what I said again. Apple discounts the models that people do not buy, or the models that will wear out the soonest. And those discounts are very low. Any Mac Pro M3 Max that has a 0.5 TB drive is going to fail early. SSDs fail mostly due to the number of read/writes, according to the paper posted in this thread. A 1 TB will fail earlier than a 2 TB, with similar read write requests. That is why Apple overcharges for its drives - Apple has built in drive failure as a means to kill its computers. So if one buys a 4 TB, one has to pay four times the market price for an SSD that would actually have faster access performance. And that is why one pays double for an 8 TB. I guess we should be buying at least 2 TB, really 4, and enough memory to avoid virtualising. And also run most tasks from a thunderbolt drive. Its simple cost accounting and planned obsolescence.
I buy the 8tb machines with maxed out ram. My point is sometimes those are the machines that get the largest discounts (both in absolute dollars and by percentage), and I have bought them at such discounts.
You seemed to be saying such machines never get the largest or any real discounts and I provided counter examples. If I misunderstood your assertion and point, my apologies.
Yes, I am saying that. I was mainly though talking about discount store deals. I don't think they get the full equipped machines. Which leaves Apple refurbs. Happy for you to list examples.
Apple might discount the fully equipped models when they are superseded.
On a base 16" MacBook Pro 12/18, in order for a version equipped with 128/8TB (not available on that model) one would require a 45% discount to achieve the same price if Apple allowed buyers to install their own RAM and drive cards. And lets's not forget, being able to replace those items make the machines have a much longer life. That third party is not available, also lowers manufacturing costs for Apple. That's a win / win for Apple.
3rd party prices from B&H for high grade for 128 GB RAM is $330. Apple charges $1,600. Almost a 5 times mark up. For the 8TB solid state drive, Apple charges $2,400, compared to 3rd party of $900 (some about $1,000). Apple is charging close to 3 times the cost for drives. If a Max Pro 12/18 core was sold with 128/8TB, it would cost $6,200. It one could use 3rd party RAM and Drives, it would cost $3,340. Plus a minor extra manufacturing cost. So to get market rates for RAM and Drives, the discount would have to be 45%. Refurbs rarely go beyond 15%, although I have seen higher than 15%. The issue is that 15% discount - even 20% - for a full configuration, is not a real world discount. Because Apple overcharges for its drives and memory. As said, you need 45% to get current market prices for those.
Why does Apple do so? IMO not only profit. I think Apple puts in the small specifications because such machines if used a lot, will fail much earlier. And since the memory and drives are not replaceable, that will mean the buyer will have to re-purchase earlier. Another premium we pay, is that instead of getting a new machine will little RAM and Drive capacity, and increasing it when we need it, and when the prices have come down (because RAM and Drive prices fall over time). But we being apple buyers have to pay up front in case we may need the capacity, and also as a form of self insurance.
As far as the value spot for RAM, it all depends. But the drive issue annoys me most. 2 TB these days is not much at all. To buy 4 TB, we have to pay $1,200 for storage that should cost $320. Come on thunderbolt 5.
RAM? Apple charges 3.5 times the market price, at a minimum being 3.4 times.
36 GB 3.4 Xs Market Price
48 GB 3.8 Xs Market Price
64 GB 4.85 Xs Market Price
96 GB 4.3 Xs Market Price
128 GB 4.85 Xs Market Price
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You know what’s funny, SSD failure is covered by Apple care.
But I wouldn’t worry so much about drive failure, just back up your data daily. The 2TB plus drives will last a long while. If anything considering your in Australia, the ACL should have your back should you purchase such an expensive computer and it fails early.
I suspect things will change regarding RAM with M4 considering the AI saga. We will see within 2-3 months I guess.
If I replace my 11 Max phone with an iPhone (and i have an Ultra watch which I actually need), I'll have AppleCare on that. I have with my watch, a monthly payment, which extends the warranty onwards. But I did the numbers on a new phone and using AppleCare, and I recall the cost of the AppleCare would have meant that in under 5 years, the contributions would have added up to a replacement phone. I ran those numbers on a Max model though.
I haven't done the same for a computer, but I doubt Apple would support a machine beyond 5 years. and I wonder about the Australian ACL beyond 5 years too.
I had a keyboard go in my 2017 MacBook Pro touch pad 15.4", and Apple were very good about the whole thing. But initially they were not, despite their being program overseas to replace the keyboards. Eventually my keyboard actually failed, and Apple not only replaced the keyboard, but the whole top of the computer (which had a scratch and ding) and they put in a new battery. Then the screen failed, and they said our fault due to the keyboard installation - and they replaced they said the motherboard and maybe the screen. I think too the screen casing. That machine was then 3 or 4 years old - this was maybe 6 months before Covid. But they have been unhelpful with my wife's iPad Pro 10.5" - they've said buy a new one if you want better battery performance. Its too old for them to replace the battery now ... they say it must fail their battery test. The battery lasts under one hour. Apple blames the software - but they also privately admitted - Apple wants my wife to buy a new one. In other words, its time is up on Apple's time of life plan.
My MacBook pro 13" of 2011 is digitising videos at the moment from two video cams, and its running 16 GB RAM & a 1 TB drive. Its SSD was dead. I have a 2013 AIR 13" - and that machine has soldered 5TB RAM and soldered 256 GB Drive. It's the model that the MacBook pro are now based on. The 13" MacBook Pro of 2011 was very easily upgradeable. That era has gone. I had hoped for an M chip with PCI upgrades and also user RAM in the high end units. Everything looks like a development of that early MacBook AIR to me.
I haven't done the same for a computer, but I doubt Apple would support a machine beyond 5 years. and I wonder about the Australian ACL beyond 5 years too.
I had a keyboard go in my 2017 MacBook Pro touch pad 15.4", and Apple were very good about the whole thing. But initially they were not, despite their being program overseas to replace the keyboards. Eventually my keyboard actually failed, and Apple not only replaced the keyboard, but the whole top of the computer (which had a scratch and ding) and they put in a new battery. Then the screen failed, and they said our fault due to the keyboard installation - and they replaced they said the motherboard and maybe the screen. I think too the screen casing. That machine was then 3 or 4 years old - this was maybe 6 months before Covid. But they have been unhelpful with my wife's iPad Pro 10.5" - they've said buy a new one if you want better battery performance. Its too old for them to replace the battery now ... they say it must fail their battery test. The battery lasts under one hour. Apple blames the software - but they also privately admitted - Apple wants my wife to buy a new one. In other words, its time is up on Apple's time of life plan.
My MacBook pro 13" of 2011 is digitising videos at the moment from two video cams, and its running 16 GB RAM & a 1 TB drive. Its SSD was dead. I have a 2013 AIR 13" - and that machine has soldered 5TB RAM and soldered 256 GB Drive. It's the model that the MacBook pro are now based on. The 13" MacBook Pro of 2011 was very easily upgradeable. That era has gone. I had hoped for an M chip with PCI upgrades and also user RAM in the high end units. Everything looks like a development of that early MacBook AIR to me.
If that’s what you’re saying you’re just wrong. I showed you maxed out machines that are 520 off now. Mentioned they go for even bigger sales regularly. I personally have bought maxed out machines, current models at the time, for 1200 off.
So your original statement that there are no discounts on top end models is just false.
You have now apparently moved the goal post saying that apple gouges on the price of their storage and ram, which I completely agree with. But that doesn’t fix the assertion that top end models don’t get discounts. They do. And at times big sales. Just that you feel the discounts aren’t enough consider the memory gouging, which is a fair, but a different assertion.
If that was your original assertion, then I missed that slant, and my bad.
Could be my expression is bad.
We are on the same side.
Could be my expression is bad.
We are on the same side.
But as I said, $1,200 discount on a high end machine is not much.
Let's forget the computer.Just let us look at the cost of 8 TB drive + 128 GB RAM. Apple's price is $2,400 for 8TB and $1,600 for the 128 GB RAM. Which totals $4,000. $1,200 / $4,000 = 30%. So the discount is not for the computer - its for the disk and the RAM. A $1,200 discount. How much do those cost if we could buy them from B&H and put them in ourselves? $330 for the RAM, and I'll average a price, $950 for the drive. The total price one can buy 8TB/128GB is $1,280. So ... Apple is selling it with the $1,200 discount, for $4,000-$1,200 = $2,800. Yet that $2,800 at B&H costs $1,280. Half Apple's price after their discount on just the drive and RAM. The computer itself - it hasn't been discounted with a $1,200 discount.
Apple though is quick and light and in a notebook, has longer battery life. Sure. We like their apps and their OS (although its far more complex than it once was). But there are now notebooks which have processors somewhat similar (not Intel though). And with most of those, a least users can slip in a drive of 4TB for $320 and wait for the 8 TB price to drop.. Or upgrade the RAM cheaply themselves (although not to 128 GB as far as I know).
A 1.5TB upgrade on the 2019 cost £25,000 from Apple in the UK. You could get the same kit (and of course have the original memory as well) for £11k a couple of years ago, now down to £4200. You'd have to really not like DIY upgrades to spend that much extra…
And it's not exactly difficult to do either, they made the memory installation quite easy.
Does everyone here have macOS specific programs they need to run on workstation class hardware? this seems to be a vanishingly small group of people. its a shame apple won't cater to this small but loyal base.
most people should just make the move to linux at this point
Nope, but I want to develop for AVP.
Unreal Engine and Blender would be much faster on a Threadripper Pro and Nvidia system. If no M4 Ultra or Extreme Studios and Mac Pros are unveiled soon I'll have to change my plans.
On desktops yes, but on laptops Linux isn’t as rosy.
The rise in Linux is due to Valve and Microsoft being a major failure when it comes to windows.
Similar in MT yes but not similar in single threaded performance. Plus the M3 Max has great encoders and decoders which AMD laptop APUs have but not as nearly as quick as Apples. There’s nothing like the M3 Max from either AMD or Intel in the laptop space.
The M3 Max has 16 channel memory and a 512bit bus you won’t get level of bandwidth with upgradable memory in a laptop form factor.
With AMDs upcoming Strix Halo the RAM will be soldered up to 128GB but this means higher memory bandwidth and the GPU can access most of that RAM. This is a mix between the Pro and Max chips. But I doubt it will as efficient because they the desktop dies which are idle hungry.
Where Apple undoubtedly price gouges in the SSD department.
These are not coming till next mid next year. I would give up on an Apple workstation. Apples gone fully mobile. I would build that PC workstation and pick up a refurb M2 Ultra for your AVP work.
I do. And there is a magic when you can mix unix workstation stuff with regular apps. I get so much joy from mixing scripts and even keyboard maestro and some app service with some core app. The productivity gains sometimes are beyond astonishing.
But the enthusiast think different crowd is gone from apple. They all left. What's left are mass marketing drone receivers. Unthinking yet arrogant masses. Basically the polar opposite of the think different enthusiast demographic.