MP All Models Mac Pro X,Y…WHAT IF…

[Melbourne Park]

On desktops yes, but on laptops Linux isn’t as rosy.

The rise in Linux is due to Valve and Microsoft being a major failure when it comes to windows.

Similar in MT yes but not similar in single threaded performance. Plus the M3 Max has great encoders and decoders which AMD laptop APUs have but not as nearly as quick as Apples. There’s nothing like the M3 Max from either AMD or Intel in the laptop space.

The M3 Max has 16 channel memory and a 512bit bus you won’t get level of bandwidth with upgradable memory in a laptop form factor.

With AMDs upcoming Strix Halo the RAM will be soldered up to 128GB but this means higher memory bandwidth and the GPU can access most of that RAM. This is a mix between the Pro and Max chips. But I doubt it will as efficient because they the desktop dies which are idle hungry.

Where Apple undoubtedly price gouges in the SSD department.

Apple also doesn't make servicing easy. MS's latest laptop got an 8.5 I think from iFixit.

I like things to last a long time. I think that is better for everyone. I have been happy to spend much more to buy something with longevity built in. But now with Apple, they punish the user who buys a bigger drive and more RAM which will extend the life of the computer due to a larger drive doing less work and hence lasting longer.

I'm hoping for T-5 ports as this will lower the need for having over a 2 TB drive IMO. The alternative for me is to buy a cheap and cheery slower mac without much capacity and be prepared to chuck it away. I guess Macs these days underneath their casings are all really notebooks or phones. Apple wants them to fail earlier than their previous units which had upgradable internals. I noted an Intel marketing person (maybe a senior exec or President or something) showing an Ultra CPU with soldered on RAM attached and boasting it was 30% faster. As our devices become more stamped out sealed items I guess all big companies will design out long life by stopping serviceability.

 

[Harry Haller]

These are not coming till next mid next year. I would give up on an Apple workstation. Apples gone fully mobile. I would build that PC workstation and pick up a refurb M2 Ultra for your AVP work.

Yeah, that's the latest I've heard, too.
An MBP M3 Max would be better for me than than the M2 Ultra Studio because the M3 Max does hardware raytracing that Unreal Engine needs for Nanite and Lumen. The latest UE 5.4 demo reels showcasing those features are absolutely stunning. Even though Mac feature lags in UE, Epic have confirmed that they will continue to support Apple Silicon. So best workflow for me might be a PC workstation for programming and rendering in UE with a maxed out MBP for assembling and editing immersive videos for AVP.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Who knows, an M4 Pro Mini might match an M3 Max ... the problem with notebooks is their moving parts make them inherently less reliable.

 

[deconstruct60]

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/08/21/1733236/linux-market-share-hits-record-high

No huge Apple factor here. From the article.

" ... Firstly, there's a growing sentiment that Microsoft, with its Windows operating system, is faltering. Instances like Microsoft urging users to train their AI for free have left users feeling disgruntled and seeking alternative solutions like Linux. Adding fuel to the fire, the impending end-of-life for Windows 10 in October 2025 is causing many to consider a switch to Linux. ...
...
While Linux's growth is noteworthy, it's important to view it in the context of the overall desktop operating system market:

• Windows remains dominant with a 72.08% market share
• macOS holds steady at 14.92%

..."

Windows 10 is still in the 60% of that sub-market stage

Desktop Windows Version Market Share Worldwide | Statcounter Global Stats

This graph shows the market share of desktop windows versions worldwide based on over 5 billion monthly page views.

gs.statcounter.com

and yet Microsoft is playing a game of 'chicken' with de-support looming within a year. They still haven't released the pricing on regular user extended support. ("we'll update at a later time.... ". What last four weeks or something? ). Windows 11 "AI" features are not going to shrink 10 deployments substantially. The "AI PC" isn't going to magically solve their 'folks not leaving version 10' problem.

Microsoft has Win10 clients that are hardware excluded from Win 11 and told Win 10 is almost done. Not too surprising that some folks are moving off to something that will support their older hardware that is still 'fast enough'. Chessy ads popping to effectively buy more MS services up doesn't really help either. And 'big brother' is going to record everything on your screen is like a cherry on top. ( Apple is doing some of the same, but less intense than Windows 11).

Apple's much smaller share means that mandates to get off are more effective. 32-bit apps are dead edict... pragmatically works with relatively few defections. Apple has also pulled most Mac users over to Apple Silicon. x86 is being phased out ( it is steadily shrinking). Apple never made anything akin to "Windows 10 is last version of Windows" / Windows as a 'forever' service pronouncement. macOS version x gets dropped after x+3 years . The hardware is left behind in around 7 years.


It is similar to the Windows Vista moment only this time some folks are trying different options than moving to macOS. ( Apple is now just another 800lb tech gorilla. ). The main driver here is Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot vastly more so than the competition 'pulling' folks to a different option.

 

[mattspace]

Yeah, that's the latest I've heard, too.
An MBP M3 Max would be better for me than than the M2 Ultra Studio because the M3 Max does hardware raytracing that Unreal Engine needs for Nanite and Lumen.

Meanwhile the thing you want to actually deploy those lighting effects on, the AVP is still a midrange iPad-class M2, so you're not gong to be getting Lumen, Nanite etc any time soon, imho.

The latest UE 5.4 demo reels showcasing those features are absolutely stunning. Even though Mac feature lags in UE, Epic have confirmed that they will continue to support Apple Silicon. So best workflow for me might be a PC workstation for programming and rendering in UE with a maxed out MBP for assembling and editing immersive videos for AVP.

The real question is "what does Apple Silicon support look like?" Is it just for the Mac Mini build server that sits in the server cabinet and does the build when you push-to-device to an iPhone from your Windows workstation, etc.]

Apple's never going to build a machine that can keep up with GPU performance folks who want to play with the newest engine features will require. At best, it's going to be like desktop publishing back when your DTP app could only show you a 256 colour palletised preview of your image media, and you had to do an "imagination proof" to pretend you knew what the final output would be.

Immersive video isn't that taxing, so editing and arranging is something I'm sure a Mac could do - it's no different to the sort of stuff we used to do with Livestage Pro back in the QTVR days.

 

[steve123]

Sketchup

If you are using Sketchup for 3D modelling you should have a look at FreeCAD. It has come a long way since the early days and I much prefer parametric modelling.

 

[steve123]

If you find a good alternative for Sketchup

Have a look at FreeCAD. It is a great parametric modelling tool and has come along way in the open source world. Quite a bit of development going on now. UI takes some getting used to and there is a learning curve but that is the case for any parametric modelling tool.

most people should just make the move to linux at this point

Waiting for support for a few more key AS components in Asahi Linux. Then macOS will have a significant competitor. If someone were to force Apple to allow installation of an alternate OS on iPads and iPhones we will see Asahi Linux here too.

 

[mattspace]

Have a look at FreeCAD. It is a great parametric modelling tool and has come along way in the open source world. Quite a bit of development going on now. UI takes some getting used to and there is a learning curve but that is the case for any parametric modelling tool.

Yeah i'll probably move to Rhino or Vectorworks. The most important thing for me in an app is a proper Mac UI, where palettes can be torn off and placed on other displays etc. My experience with a lot of Freeware 3D apps (looking at you Blender, not even using the Mac menu bar) isn't great with that.

Waiting for support for a few more key AS components in Asahi Linux. Then macOS will have a significant competitor. If someone were to force Apple to allow installation of an alternate OS on iPads and iPhones we will see Asahi Linux here too.

Why would you buy a Mac to run Linux? On the desktop, Apple hardware is tolerated for its access to macOS.

 

[Carrotstick]

Yeah i'll probably move to Rhino

Rhino is great, supports native AS and metal.

 

[Melbourne Park]

Sketchup has little learning curve & is great for archi and easy visualisation. But its better visualisation add ons are not bundled or available on the Mac. Windoze is a lot cheaper because of the lack of mac software. Engineering wise or accuracy its poor. Horses for courses I reckon ...

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

I havent seen this, so thought it would be interesting to others about what a total piece of s*** apple has become:

Apple designed a modular computer that they do not want you to service

Apple doesn't seem to give a royal damn about Mac Pro 2019 users.

blog.greggant.com

 

[Harry Haller]

I'm shocked that Apple would abandon the fabulous 7.1.

 

[Carrotstick]

It’s not a total surprise, the Mac Pro 2013 showed Apples true intentions. Anyway, this is because the 7,1 isn’t part of Apples self repair program.

Athought it would be interesting to others about what a total piece of s*** apple has become:

Apples always been s*** with stuff like this.

 

[avro707]

I havent seen this, so thought it would be interesting to others about what a total piece of s*** apple has become:

They are absolute *********...

The only way to service a Mac Pro 2019 is via an Apple Store. I discovered this after my Mac Pro 2019 reported a fan issue in diagnostic mode. After trekking to a local Apple Store lugging my 50+ pound computer, it took Apple roughly a week to reach the same conclusion as me: the diagnostic mode is reporting a fan error and that Apple would need to service my Mac Pro. I learned several things:

• Apple will not sell you parts directly.
• Apple requires a technician to install the part even if you're not covered by Apple Care.
• Any parts removed become property of Apple. Under no circumstance will Apple give you your non-functioning part.
• Apple will not replace missing parts.

This is absolutely bonkers, considering the time and effort Apple took to make the Mac Pro 2019 serviceable by a novice, earning itself a 9 out of 10 from iFixit, as it requires only a Phillips and Torx screw driver. I was extra miffed that I couldn't keep my faulty fan array. It's functioning properly but may have a bad sensor. I wanted to see if I could fix it myself.


Apple may have backed a right-to-repair bill, but Apple itself is rotten to its core.

Replacing items in the 2019 Mac Pro is dead easy, but replacement parts are only available via the Apple dealers or seemingly some third party resellers.

This is why I'm not buying any more Apple computers. What I've got now are the last ones. PC workstations and laptops going forward.

If people want to get together and go to a law firm about this we might have something against them, but people don't want to do that, either through lack of time or leaving it up to somebody else to take the initiative.

It's pretty clear Apple wants to hobble the 2019 Mac Pro as much as possible to prevent it eating up sales of the M2 Mac Pro.

If you could easily put a 7900 series Radeon Pro in the 2019 Mac Pro, then you won't spend big $$$ on the M2 machine.

Also annoying and frustrating was the fact they had the MPX modules listed as available to order until recently and the Apple Store people (either on the phone or in store) swore black and blue that if it was shown there, it absolutely was in stock "oh, absolutely you will get it".

Well, absolutely not, it wasn't available and it took a long drawn out process of them stuffing me around with a AUD$13,500 order to establish that. Absolutely I wouldn't buy anything from them again and I advise others don't buy anything from Apple either unless it's a cheap disposable throw-away item that you can grab from the shelves of a store yourself.

I'd love to catch up with Cook and give him a bit of "feedback".

 

[Carrotstick]

PC workstations and laptops going forward.

I’m currently using a 2019 MBP 16” as my workstation but I will not be getting another Apple laptop. The battery is also very hard to replace and the SSD is soldered. This machine was $4000AUD.

I’m looking forward to Intel’s Lunar Lake event this week and I will likely get a laptop that will include the 3nm TSMC Intel chip or AMDs Zen5 SoCs too. Done with Apple lock in and purposely built to left to die machines.

 

[Carrotstick]

A bit off topic but Apple has to be the worst company in terms of parts support.

Nintendo ran out of 3DS parts last month and that’s for a console released in 2015. This long of a support for a $299 console, amazing.

Meanwhile, 7,1 buyers can’t even buy a new SSD module from Apple. What a pathetic company.

Nintendo ends New 3DS repair support after draining parts supply

It's the end of another era as Nintendo stops providing repairs to another one of its decade-old systems.

www.gamedeveloper.com

 

[Melbourne Park]

Apple designed a modular computer that they do not want you to service

Apple should have two prices - one for the fan assembly without providing the broken one, and one for the assembly without the broken fan assembly.

The policy of Apple requiring the broken part is actually very old. In around 1992, Apple was certainly doing this. They had though two prices - one for the item by itself, and one for the item post "trade-in". A motherboard price back then was close to the cost of the entire notebook, but the trade in price was also very high and the resultant net part part price was reasonable. At the time Apple explained that they did not want their motherboards going into 3rd party boxes - so they disabled people buying Apple parts in order to use them in third party different form factor hardware which could still run Apple OS. Why Apple might covet their fan design though, is beyond comprehension. Its easy to copy such things these days.

Apple is no longer focused on high end users who want top performance per dollar in the short term, and want to be able to invest in affordable upgrades to stay close to top productivity while using a computer bought several years ago. For video producers, it makes sense now to plan the switch to Windows software, as that platform can sustain for much longer the top performance per dollar, and its entry point cost can be much lower too.

 

[mattspace]

I’m currently using a 2019 MBP 16” as my workstation but I will not be getting another Apple laptop. The battery is also very hard to replace and the SSD is soldered. This machine was $4000AUD.

I’m looking forward to Intel’s Lunar Lake event this week and I will likely get a laptop that will include the 3nm TSMC Intel chip or AMDs Zen5 SoCs too. Done with Apple lock in and purposely built to left to die machines.

Framework just linked a video of their 16" connected to an eGPU via Oculink - full-fat 16 lane connection.

 

[Carrotstick]

Framework just linked a video of their 16" connected to an eGPU via Oculink - full-fat 16 lane connection.

Thanks for that. Looks interesting

 

[avro707]

Framework just linked a video of their 16" connected to an eGPU via Oculink - full-fat 16 lane connection.

Interesting laptop.

 

[mattspace]

Further investigation has it connected via an x4 connector in one of the M.2 slots (interesting hack), but Oculink is an interesting tech in its own right.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/24/08/21/1733236/linux-market-share-hits-record-high

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www.howtogeek.com

 

[MacPoulet]

I havent seen this, so thought it would be interesting to others about what a total piece of s*** apple has become:

Apple designed a modular computer that they do not want you to service

Apple doesn't seem to give a royal damn about Mac Pro 2019 users.

blog.greggant.com

Does Apple no longer do on-site service for Mac Pros? I haven't had much trouble getting parts or service for old computers from authorised techs who don't work for an Apple Store. Heck, one time I bought a 2012 Mac Mini off eBay only to discover it had been stripped of most parts, including screws. I was able to get an authorized repair centre to do the work and replace the parts. The kicker was that Apple screws were $20 a piece!

I used to work for an Apple reseller 20 years ago, so my knowledge on current policies is out of date, but we had to offer on-site repairs for PowerMac G4/G5 (I wish we'd done it for eMac's too), and buying parts was pretty trivial. That predated Apple Stores though, and I think overall, things worked better without them.

 

[Carrotstick]

Does Apple no longer do on-site service for Mac Pros? I haven't had much trouble getting parts or service for old computers from authorised techs who don't work for an Apple Store. Heck, one time I bought a 2012 Mac Mini off eBay only to discover it had been stripped of most parts, including screws. I was able to get an authorized repair centre to do the work and replace the parts. The kicker was that Apple screws were $20 a piece!

I used to work for an Apple reseller 20 years ago, so my knowledge on current policies is out of date, but we had to offer on-site repairs for PowerMac G4/G5 (I wish we'd done it for eMac's too), and buying parts was pretty trivial. That predated Apple Stores though, and I think overall, things worked better without them.

Now it’s only for businesses Apple does on-site service.

 

[Carrotstick]

Loading…

www.howtogeek.com

macOS is leagues above in terms of fit and finish than any Linux distribution.

Closest would be Gnome but it’s lacking in design.

Further investigation has it connected via an x4 connector in one of the M.2 slots (interesting hack), but Oculink is an interesting tech in its own right.

I had a look at their 16” laptop on their site, it seems good but the performance isn’t there either for the CPU or GPU.

Its a nice laptop for people who value modularity above all else tho.

I’m interested to see how Strix Halo, AMD’s M3 Max competitor will perform supposedly it comes out next year. This Framework 16” is the perfect one for that, otherwise I can’t see myself getting this laptop.