MAC Pro1.1 Upgradability and Future Use

[Amethyst1]

For the uninitiated, ie me, why would I do this, please? I am trying to learn as i go on this one...

You asked where the boot code is.

On an (U)EFI-based system, there's an EFI system partition formatted as FAT32 which, in the case of e.g. Linux or Windows, contains the boot loader as an EFI binary. In the case of macOS booting from HFS+, it's a bit different as the boot loader isn't contained on the EFI system partition but on the macOS partition itself, as /System/Library/CoreServices/boot.efi.

Both disks appear to have an EFI partition already, is this what you would expect?

Using Disk Utility to format a disk using the GUID partition scheme automatically creates an EFI system partition.

In this image the disk that is the boot disk is Disk1 but since i took this i have switched the physical drives around so now the boot drive is Disk0

Then your EFI system partition is /dev/disk0s1.

 

[ejwjohn]

Hello,

Thank You for this.

But am i correct in assuming that although the partition is there, it does not mean there is any meaningful code installed within the partition, that will be up to the operating system itself to ensure this code is installed??

I am just curious as to why in the several attempts i have made to create USB sticks with the ISO installed and also the attempt to create the DVD both failed to trigger the correct response when i select Alt/Option key on Boot.

Is there somewhere you would recommend that i read an overview on how the boot process is intended to function based on the UEFI process, please? and in particular how it lets users choose from possible multiple Boot options, so in the case of people that have Windows, OSX and Linux they can choose which operating system to boot into their device.

thanks Again

JohnW

 

[Amethyst1]

But am i correct in assuming that although the partition is there, it does not mean there is any meaningful code installed within the partition, that will be up to the operating system itself to ensure this code is installed??

Correct. Take an Ubuntu ISO: its EFI system partition contains an EFI directory. In it is a Boot subdirectory which contains the boot loader as bootx64.efi ... because a 64-bit UEFI firmware is set to look for a boot loader under \EFI\Boot\bootx64.efi (unless it's configured to look elsewhere; this can be changed by an OS).

Is there somewhere you would recommend that i read an overview on how the boot process is intended to function based on the UEFI process, please?

https://eclecticlight.co/2018/08/25/booting-the-mac-visual-summary/ looks good.
This is for Macs, not for PCs or VMs using another UEFI implementation.

 

[ejwjohn]

Thanks once again for your response and the time you have taken to respond to my questions.

I will spend some time reviewing the article in your suggested link.

Thanks

JohnW

 

[Amethyst1]

I will spend some time reviewing the article in your suggested link.

If you want an UEFI environment to safely tinker around with, VirtualBox and VMware VMs provide one.

 

[ejwjohn]

Hello,

Thanks, but I first need to get some form of Linux loaded onto the Mac Pro 1.1 and i will continue trying with Ubuntu, My next and possible last alternative is to get one of the disks from the Mac Pro 1.1 and put it into a caddy and use USB3 to connect to another working mac (MacBook Pro with M1 Pro chip) and see if i can create a bootable image on the disk before I return it to the Mac Pro 1.1 to see if that will work?

Do you think that will work?

Thx
JohnW

 

[Amethyst1]

Do you think that will work?

If you're talking about dding the Ubuntu ISO to the hard drive, putting that back into the Mac Pro and seeing if it'll boot from that, it's… worth a try I guess.

 

[ejwjohn]

Ok, that failed as well???? so i am not sure where to go now i created a boot image on the disk from the MAC Pro 1.1 using the Disk utility software on my Mac and erased is as MOS Dos and GUID Partition, then used etcher to burn the Ubuntu ISO.

I did not try any Command line version as i am not 100% sure i would get it correct and based on what i know i am not clear it offers any real advantages, but that assumption may be totally incorrect.

My current MAC system is a new MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro chip and the possibility to load an alternative OS's is further complicated by the additional security features Apple have added to prevent other OS's being loaded unless you start changing other parameters, and i am not going down that road now as i understand Linux will not run natively on the M1 Mac's.

So not sure where to go from here now???

Thanks

JohnW

 

[ejwjohn]

OK,
Just to update you on this issue, i also have access to an old Apple Mini (2014) and I used the images and disk i created using your advice on the failed attempt to get the Mac Pro 1.1 working, and I am happy to say all is working fine.

I created a bootable disk for Ubuntu on the Mini and then loaded VMware, and finally, Windows 10 and all seems fine and performance is acceptable.

Still not sure why the MAC Pro refused to do the same as the mini obviously had something to do with the EFI code or the way I was creating the disks......

So thanks for all your help on this.

JohnW

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

OK,
Just to update you on this issue, i also have access to an old Apple Mini (2014) and I used the images and disk i created using your advice on the failed attempt to get the Mac Pro 1.1 working, and I am happy to say all is working fine.

I created a bootable disk for Ubuntu on the Mini and then loaded VMware, and finally, Windows 10 and all seems fine and performance is acceptable.

Still not sure why the MAC Pro refused to do the same as the mini obviously had something to do with the EFI code or the way I was creating the disks......

So thanks for all your help on this.

JohnW

Nice to know your result.
In my case, I just created a Windows USB installer to a USB box containing an HDD.
I then moved the HDD to the cMP1,1 (SATA port), booted it on and installed Windows right on the HDD.
Now, whenever I boot from that Windows HDD, Windows set-up would boot first, then let me select the main Windows session (64 bit Windows 10).

 

[ejwjohn]

Nice to know your result.
In my case, I just created a Windows USB installer to a USB box containing an HDD.
I then moved the HDD to the cMP1,1 (SATA port), booted it on and installed Windows right on the HDD.
Now, whenever I boot from that Windows HDD, Windows set-up would boot first, then let me select the main Windows session (64 bit Windows 10).

Very interesting.. can i ask, how exactly did you create the USB installer? I have my HDD Disk installed in an external USB3 Disk unit so would be interested in trying the same, to bypass Ubuntu.

Thx

JohnW

 

[ejwjohn]

Sorry, forgot to mention that the reason i ask is that my copy of Windows 10 is an official USB stick from Microsoft which I understand is "Bootable" but whenever i try it just "hangs" there.

Thx
JohnW

 

[ejwjohn]

Hi,

I created a bootable windows 10 disk by using the Microsoft Creation Media tool, but that failed to be recognised as bootable media on my Mac Mini so not sure what I have managed to do with my system.

JohnW

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Very interesting.. can i ask, how exactly did you create the USB installer? I have my HDD Disk installed in an external USB3 Disk unit so would be interested in trying the same, to bypass Ubuntu.

Thx

JohnW

Device: a PC running Windows 10, 1 HDD, 1 USB enclosure to hold the HDD.
Source file: File image is the official Windows ISO file download from Microsoft website.
Application: Rufus.
Just Google Rufus and you will get to their website with full instruction and download link.

I think you just can try the same with Ubuntu ISO file. Use Rufus to burn the ISO file to the USB device (HDD).
You can try booting the Windows Installer from 1 HDD, then install Windows on another HDD/SSD to see if the cMP would boot from the Windows HDD/SSD once the installer HDD was removed from it.

As far as I remember, my cMP 1,1 would not boot from the Windows USB installer, whatever thing I did to it.
And the DVD drive was dead, too. I tried to replace it with another DVD drive using the existing IDE cable, it was a failure also. I didn't know about the 2 SATA port on the logic board until recently.
But any way, sliding an 2$ 80GB HDD to 1 of the 4 slots is still faster and more convenient than burning a DVD, which cost 1$.

 

[ejwjohn]

I have just been doing a little checking on my system and I think I have corrupted or deleted the EFI boot file in error somewhere along the process of getting Ubuntu and VMware up and running. But not sure....

JohnW

 

[hwojtek]

I created a bootable windows 10 disk by using the Microsoft Creation Media tool, but that failed to be recognised as bootable media on my Mac Mini so not sure what I have managed to do with my system.

It's not bootable for a Mac.
As pointed out by @Nguyen Duc Hieu - you have to use Rufus to make the USB Mac-bootable (or tinker with the ISO, I personally find a single-click Rufus approach much easier), using Rufus you can even disable Windows 11 TPM/safeboot requirements and enjoy Windows 11 running on a Mac without a hitch.

If the Mac Pro of the OP is supposed to run Ubuntu and Windows only, I encourage installing both of them natively, making sure you do it in the right order (Windows first, Ubuntu later), so the selfish Ubuntu boot process adds a "Windows" entry into GRUB menu. Installing Windows as an Ubuntu VM is a performance killer on a relatively slow computer. On the contrary, a maxxed out 1,1/2,1 with a decent AMD GPU of 79x0 like performs quite briskly in native Windows, especially when ran from a SSD.

I have just been doing a little checking on my system and I think I have corrupted or deleted the EFI boot file in error somewhere along the process of getting Ubuntu and VMware up and running. But not sure....

Please log into your Ubuntu, open up the Terminal and paste the result of sudo fdisk -l | grep /dev/sda here.

 

[ejwjohn]

Hello,

Thanks for your help, hope the following is what you were expecting:-
ejw@ejw-Macmini:~$ sudo fdisk -l |grep /dev/sda
[sudo] password for ejw:
Disk /dev/sda: 931.51 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
/dev/sda1 40 409639 409600 200M EFI System
/dev/sda2 409640 1953525127 1953115488 931.3G Apple APFS
ejw@ejw-Macmini:~$

Also, I have had a very quick look at Rufus, where do I specify that the target is a MAC, please?

thx

JphnW

 

[hwojtek]

Hello,

Thanks for your help, hope the following is what you were expecting:-

ejw@ejw-Macmini:~$ sudo fdisk -l |grep /dev/sda
[sudo] password for ejw:
Disk /dev/sda: 931.51 GiB, 1000204886016 bytes, 1953525168 sectors
/dev/sda1      40     409639     409600   200M EFI System
/dev/sda2  409640 1953525127 1953115488 931.3G Apple APFS
ejw@ejw-Macmini:~$

So, you DO have an EFI partition on the first disk (we do not know the content yet), and by the look of things if your MacOS is not starting, it's because Ubuntu "blessed itself" and is set as a default disk to start from.
You should be able to boot to MacOS by holding "option" while powering up and then selecting your MacOS disk (use the arrow keys to highlight it, hold "control" and press "enter"). Let know if it worked.

Also, I have had a very quick look at Rufus, where do I specify that the target is a MAC, please?

You don't do it explicitly.
Make sure you download Rufus 3.17 from here (AFAIK the later versions have the patching ability removed by the request of Microsoft).
Set it like this:

 

[ejwjohn]

You should be able to boot to MacOS by holding "option" while powering up and then selecting your MacOS disk (use the arrow keys to highlight it, hold "control" and press "enter"). Let know if it worked.

No that does not happen, and I was also expecting to see the MAC OSX option but no... there is however another disk in the system and its identified as an Apple SDD with a 100+mbyte of data, I am assuming that is the apple recovery partition but i cannot seem to access it ... I tried Ctrl +R reboot option and that did nothing???

Thx

JohnW

 

[hwojtek]

Ups, it seems Ubuntu might have messed up more than I expected.
What I would do is (re)install all the systems each to its own physical drive and by using a single drive (with other physically removed) during each installation. Windows first, Ubuntu and MacOS as the last.
This should rectify the situation.
Oh and one more thing - I might have jumped a bit too far with Windows install, as I have used a modified Windows 10 ISO on a MP 2,1 to boot natively and now I use the Open Core boot loader that (once set up) simplifies the whole boot management process immensely. I have zero experience in using OC as a bootloader in MP 1,1/2,1, though.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Ups, it seems Ubuntu might have messed up more than I expected.
What I would do is (re)install all the systems each to its own physical drive and by using a single drive (with other physically removed) during each installation. Windows first, Ubuntu and MacOS as the last.
This should rectify the situation.
Oh and one more thing - I might have jumped a bit too far with Windows install, as I have used a modified Windows 10 ISO on a MP 2,1 to boot natively and now I use the Open Core boot loader that (once set up) simplifies the whole boot management process immensely. I have zero experience in using OC as a bootloader in MP 1,1/2,1, though.

From OS X El Capitan, it's easy to select the next boot disk in System Preference.
It's still easy to come back to OS X from Windows using BootCamp Manager (Just run BootCamp 5.1 auto install).
I just can't figure out how to jump back to Mac OSX from Ubuntu.

On the other hand, it's pretty simple just to shutdown the MP1,1, physically remove the current HDD and plug in the HDD with the OS you like.

 

[ejwjohn]

You don't do it explicitly.
Make sure you download Rufus 3.17 from here (AFAIK the later versions have the patching ability removed by the request of Microsoft).

Hello,

Thanks for this I have used Rufus to finally create a bootable Windows 10 USB drive that is recognised by holding the Alt key on power up, so this is progress.

Before I continue with the install where is Windows installed does it default to the USB drive or does it select another drive, as I cannot see how to force it to install Windows on a specific drive?

Also thanks Nguyen Duc Hieu for your input on this.... hopefully i can make all this effort work

Johnw

 

[hwojtek]

Before I continue with the install where is Windows installed does it default to the USB drive or does it select another drive, as I cannot see how to force it to install Windows on a specific drive?

Once you click the big "Install" in the blue Windows setup window, it will show a list of all available disks in your computer. Just don't pick a disk used for another system. Use the mentioned window to clean this disk (removes all partitions) and allow Windows to decide by itself how to partition this disk by clicking "Continue".

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Hello,

Thanks for this I have used Rufus to finally create a bootable Windows 10 USB drive that is recognised by holding the Alt key on power up, so this is progress.

Before I continue with the install where is Windows installed does it default to the USB drive or does it select another drive, as I cannot see how to force it to install Windows on a specific drive?

Also thanks Nguyen Duc Hieu for your input on this.... hopefully i can make all this effort work

Johnw

You mean on another Mac?
As far as I remember, MP1,1 would not boot from a USB Windows installer.

 

[ejwjohn]

Hello,

Yes I have switched my attention now to an old Mac Mini (late 2014) and a MacBook Pro (Late 2013)

But having said that both devices are equipped with the SDD version of the mac storage and I think it is now causing me more issues as yesterday I started having issues on both machines in relation to the new Windows load.

So I decided to reload both macs with their original software using the internet recovery option and now I cannot successfully install Windows using the Rufus-created USB the issue appears to be that when getting to the point of installing Windows on the MAC when i need to specify where to install the software on the MAC the windows comes back with an error that i cannot recognise the format of the disk i have selected?

So now I cannot work out what is so different between these attempts to install Windows and the previous one, apart from both systems had Ubuntu installed on them and the only thing I can think of is that when that installation took place it pre-formatted my disks differently somehow?? but that's a wild guess?

Thanks

JohnW