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l0stl0rd

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2009
476
412
Where have you heard there's new firmware version? I've not seen that reported anywhere.
In the comments when the developer beta came out some one checked and listed the different versions.

MacOS 15.4 beta

Safari Version 15.5 (17613.2.4.1.2)

System Firmware Version: 7459.120.39.111.1 2 (M1 based Macs)

Darwin Kernel Version 21.5.0: Mon Mar 28 19:53:15 PDT 2022; root:xnu-8020.120.43.111.1~1/RELEASE_ARM64_T8101 arm64

MacOS 12.3 RC

Safari Version 15.4 (17613.1.17.1.6)

System Firmware Version: 7459.101.2 (M1 based Macs)

Darwin Kernel Version 21.4.0: Mon Feb 21 20:36:53 PST 2022; root:xnu-8020.101.4~2/RELEASE_ARM64_T8101 arm64
 
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Chancha

macrumors 68020
Mar 19, 2014
2,245
2,042
If the firmware turns out to do anything optimizing the Ultra, you bet we will get 6 Max Tech videos titled ”You wouldn’t believe this” or “Regret selling the top end Ultra” etc, lol.

Then when that FCPX pre-release version drops, we will get another 10 videos.

Look I am cool with how he rolls, as a viewer we just need to know how to decipher the noise. These guys go the trouble purchasing machines to test ASAP anyway which saves some effort on my part, as lousy as their conclusions some times are.
 

l0stl0rd

macrumors 6502
Jul 25, 2009
476
412
Yes they are good entertainment
If the firmware turns out to do anything optimizing the Ultra, you bet we will get 6 Max Tech videos titled ”You wouldn’t believe this” or “Regret selling the top end Ultra” etc, lol.

Then when that FCPX pre-release version drops, we will get another 10 videos.

Look I am cool with how he rolls, as a viewer we just need to know how to decipher the noise. These guys go the trouble purchasing machines to test ASAP anyway which saves some effort on my part, as lousy as their conclusions some times are.
Yes they are good entertainment and so are most tech youtubers.

It was obvious that the 48 core one is the better “deal” the 64 from the start.
 

sn1p3r845

macrumors regular
Feb 9, 2012
216
108
Vancouver, BC
I was thinking about this all night, and I realized how stupid this video really is. IF the performance seems capped, then what the **** is the new Mac Pro suppose to be? If it already has reached its limits based on performance/specs, then why would anybody be buying the new mac pro that's set to release soon?
 
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Sirmausalot

macrumors 65816
Sep 1, 2007
1,135
320
I can't remember which reviewer/video it was, but I recall that encode times only truly jumped to nearly 2x with the Ultra off the internal drive (as opposed to an external SSD). I will do some testing myself soon.
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
I was thinking about this all night, and I realized how stupid this video really is. IF the performance seems capped, then what the **** is the new Mac Pro suppose to be? If it already has reached its limits based on performance/specs, then why would anybody be buying the new mac pro that's set to release soon?



Maybe it's capped, if ireally is, because of the Mac Pro?t
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
The reason encoding a single video to H.265 doesn’t show different times between the Max and Ultras is because H.265 encoding doesn’t use the CPU cores, it uses the H.265 encoders built into the M1 architecture (like Intel QuickSync). So they’re just testing the speed of the H.265 encoders which are the same across the Max / Ultra chips.
The ultra should have double the encoders no? That’s what I see from tests that are running the newer Final Cut Pro.
 

rkuo

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2010
1,308
954
If the firmware turns out to do anything optimizing the Ultra, you bet we will get 6 Max Tech videos titled ”You wouldn’t believe this” or “Regret selling the top end Ultra” etc, lol.

Then when that FCPX pre-release version drops, we will get another 10 videos.

Look I am cool with how he rolls, as a viewer we just need to know how to decipher the noise. These guys go the trouble purchasing machines to test ASAP anyway which saves some effort on my part, as lousy as their conclusions some times are.
Precisely my point ... we have people here hating on Max for doing YouTube things on YouTube. Like posting videos daily.

I also realized that while a lot of his content is redundant, he always ends up doing that *one* comparison that I'm interested in when i'm close to buying. And that made me realize the value of the seeming redundancy in all of his videos and YouTube algorithm tweaking ... there's always a slice of it that I can pick out that is completely relevant to what *I* have questions about. And I find that valuable. Comparing him with Marques is ridiculous ... there's pretty much nothing in an MKBHD video I can't get out of the press release.
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
The ultra should have double the encoders no? That’s what I see from tests that are running the newer Final Cut Pro.
The Ultra has double the encoders which would theoretically double the encoding speed. However the latest version of FCP appears to only utilize two of the four encoders. There doesn't appear to be any boost from having double the encoders.
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
Precisely my point ... we have people here hating on Max for doing YouTube things on YouTube. Like posting videos daily.

I also realized that while a lot of his content is redundant, he always ends up doing that *one* comparison that I'm interested in when i'm close to buying. And that made me realize the value of the seeming redundancy in all of his videos and YouTube algorithm tweaking ... there's always a slice of it that I can pick out that is completely relevant to what *I* have questions about. And I find that valuable. Comparing him with Marques is ridiculous ... there's pretty much nothing in an MKBHD video I can't get out of the press release.
I found his videos informative. I am puzzled but the number of people who criticize his videos with little basis (at least none that they've provided). If they don't like him then they don't have to watch him, easy as that.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
The Ultra has double the encoders which would theoretically double the encoding speed. However the latest version of FCP appears to only utilize two of the four encoders. There doesn't appear to be any boost from having double the encoders.
Is that true? That is the ONLY reason I got the ultra. If all 4 encoders will not be utilized, even with the new FPC then what is the point of the Ultra? How are the reviewers seeing double with the pre-release FCP?
 

atonaldenim

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2018
238
309
The ultra should have double the encoders no? That’s what I see from tests that are running the newer Final Cut Pro.

If it’s possible in the future to distribute a single video render across multiple H.264 / H.265 / ProRes encoders that would be wonderful, as I’ll be getting the Ultra with 2x the media encoders of the Max. However I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s currently not possible, as the OP’s video test results seemed to suggest. Happy to see any evidence to the contrary!
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
Whereas people who edit video are more interested in how Final Cut performs during ... wait for it ... editing. However, showing that takes knowledge of the programme and time and effort, and will only attract viewers who actually understand, and are interested in, editing, and who have an attention span longer than a nanosecond. It's much easier for a "critic" like Max Yuryev to "test" export times. That's far less challenging for both him and his viewers, whose attention he needs to make advertising and "merch" money.
I am actually more interested in export times than editing. I record my lectures where I don't need to do a lot of editing. And an 8 hour video takes a long time to export. M1 Max sped it up nicely with the extra encoders (I got back 2.5 hours on a 8-10 hour video export!). I got the Ultra since it should double the encoders but it sounds like it is not being used?
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
FCP has been updated to work with the additional media encoders and decoders on the M1 Ultra, however Apple has not yet released that update so the general public running FCP on an M1 Ultra Mac Studio are not yet able to take advantage of that.

At the moment, only Apple Internal and those who received an M1 Ultra Mac Studio review unit from Apple have this updated version per reports.
I am getting conflicting reports on this. Did that version of FCP make use out of all the encoders and decoders?
 

F-Train

macrumors 68020
Apr 22, 2015
2,272
1,762
NYC & Newfoundland
I am actually more interested in export times than editing. I record my lectures where I don't need to do a lot of editing. And an 8 hour video takes a long time to export. M1 Max sped it up nicely with the extra encoders (I got back 2.5 hours on a 8-10 hour video export!). I got the Ultra since it should double the encoders but it sounds like it is not being used?

If you are using Final Cut or Compressor to export, you'll know when the beta is released in final form. I imagine that the release is imminent.
 
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Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
In his conclusions though he literally says he doesn't recommend a couple of the higher end Ultra builds, at all, for any video editing, based solely on a few export tests. I agree that viewers need to be aware of the context of any reviewer's opinions, but he can also stay away from giant blanket statements based on a few preliminary tests (of course that means he loses some click-bait, and it's hard to fault someone for playing the click-bait game when it's a click-bait world). He also plugs an as-yet-to-come, more in-depth video editing review (which might not even lead to the same conclusions as this superficial shoot out).

What I'd like to see is more real world observations, such as when video editing does the app start to feel sluggish once you have a bunch of GFX, streams, filters, etc., in the timeline/project? How does the computer perform when you are exporting and editing at the same time? Or when you are jumping between multiple open apps like PS, AE and your NLE? I know they did the 8K export test, but what's the experience like of editing it? Can you zoom around the timeline w/o lag? Does it still playback smooth as glass once you start adding graphic overlays and color correction? I know that takes more time/effort than just running benchmarks/speed tests, but it also gives a better picture of the user experience and how the app actually performs vs just how fast it can export/render.

Doing a computer review mainly based on export, render times is like a doing a car review based solely on the 0-60 time and ignoring handling, cornering, braking, road noise, ride comfort... basically the entire car driving experience.
I think Max is on the right track of good reviewers. I don't want to watch benchmarks from 20 different people, so to see Max actually loading up work and exporting is a good improvement. Can he do more? Sure! We all can! We need a GamersNexus level of detail for Mac reviews (not so much on the chips and internals to the level they do it, but more on the testing details).
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
Max? Is this you? 😂

Honestly, plastering terms like "TRUTH" and "Apple Slowed it Down" are misleading, period. He posts stuff he fully knows is just click-bait to get discussion and commentary. Telling people to publish their own reviews is a ridiculous response to the arguments being presented and a deflection from the issues at hand.

The reality is that he is trumpeting his own views as "TRUTH" and not as opinions, small side comments to the contrary notwithstanding. It's a bit like all of the opinion shows masking as "News" on television/online today. Many folks lack the skills to separate the two, and the people publishing that crap know it, but all they care about is the ad revenue.
I think in general people need to stop harping on the click bait - titles and thumbnails. YouTube is a difficult business to grow, so you basically NEED to be click-baity to gain viewership. I don't mind it when Linus or 100s of others do it because I have actually been involved in the business side of YouTube (my lectures and guides for example).
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
Final Cut, yeah, that should have just been updated to coincide with the release. That said, Apple makes their own business decisions. They probably--rightly so--knew that no one was buying a Studio just for the newest version of FCPX and those folks that are committed to Apple and Final Cut would be fine knowing that the update is imminent. Heck, it will probably be out before many of the Studio pre-orders are even filled.
*raises hand* I am one of those that is only interested in the Ultra for the extra encoders, so FCP is my buying factor. When I work on 8-10 lectures/tutorials/guides every other day, every encoder helps! I have already saved 2.5 hours of export time vs my 3080 i9 Windows PC with the M1 Max Macbook Pro. But I constantly push laptops too far by rendering non stop so I always prefer desktops. And if I can save 5 hours with the Ultra, YAY!
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
Is that true? That is the ONLY reason I got the ultra. If all 4 encoders will not be utilized, even with the new FPC then what is the point of the Ultra? How are the reviewers seeing double with the pre-release FCP?
It appears to be the case with the current version. There is speculation that the next version will better utilize the additional encoders but only those who have the beta know what, if any, minimal improvements to expect.

This is why videos such as Max Tech are helpful. Because of them we know that current software doesn't fully utilize the capabilities of some Mac Studio configurations.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
It appears to be the case with the current version. There is speculation that the next version will better utilize the additional encoders but only those who have the beta know what, if any, minimal improvements to expect.

This is why videos such as Max Tech are helpful. Because of them we know that current software doesn't fully utilize the capabilities of some Mac Studio configurations.
Hmm.....Shipping is so long I am not sure if I should cancel my Ultra order or not. The extra encoders will be a GREAT help and I want a system for a good ~5 years. Would you get the Ultra in this case, or get the Max?
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
I think in general people need to stop harping on the click bait - titles and thumbnails. YouTube is a difficult business to grow, so you basically NEED to be click-baity to gain viewership. I don't mind it when Linus or 100s of others do it because I have actually been involved in the business side of YouTube (my lectures and guides for example).
I am not going to get into the debate regarding clickbait (or not). I found his videos to be informative and supported with plausible explanations. That's 100% more than the forum "detractractors" of his have provided.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,139
7,112
I am not going to get into the debate regarding clickbait (or not). I found his videos to be informative and supported with plausible explanations. That's 100% more than the forum "detractractors" of his have provided.
I agree, I just see a lot of the same comments even when people talk about Linus, GamersNexus, Max and any other YouTuber. We see about 10 posts complaining about click bait.
 

m1maverick

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2020
1,368
1,267
Hmm.....Shipping is so long I am not sure if I should cancel my Ultra order or not. The extra encoders will be a GREAT help and I want a system for a good ~5 years. Would you get the Ultra in this case, or get the Max?
I bought an Ultra on day one. Picked it up at 11:30 am on the day it was released. I have absolutely, positively ZERO need for it or the Max's capabilities. I just wanted one. So, perhaps I'm not the right person to ask :)

That said I fully expect Apple, and other software developers, to improve on their software to utilize the extra capabilities of the Ultra. Going out on a limb I expect the next version of FCP will utilize, to some extent, the extra encoders.
 
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