I would be surprised if Apple doesn't take their desktops seriously. Because they can be the bedrock to a graphics and motion based enterprise. If there isn't a desktop machine, then the alternative would be to switch to Windows. If so, Apple would loose all the devices surrounding that business space. For example, the iPad has a video mixing capability. It's a cobbled device IMO, but for video mixing work, it looks to provide a useful tool. The notebooks are part of all that too. And the Cloud, phones, watches etc. One desktop can easily be the basis for a whole lot of high margin Apple income.
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Mac Studio Speculation [Merged]
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Because they make hundreds of billions per year and they spend and make more money on other hardware they sell.
Great so you agree with me. Laptops get higher priority for updates.
No I don’t agree with you in the slightest, and please provide verified proof that Apple invests more on all its other hardware devices then its desktop lineup of computers please on research and development with the figures too.
And using your logic the exact same thing you state can be applied to the laptops anyway, because Apple makes a lot more money in sales on its iPhones every year.
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Why are you asking for verified proof of non-public material information? You work for the SEC? Is this a trap?
I said "make and spend" more money. We know through the 10-K filings what they make per product lineup and we have very general ideas behind what percentage of desktops represent Macs which is low.
Using 2023 annual report one can assume if they make 200 billion in revenue for the iPhone in a year and you compare that to the 29 billion for the Mac lineup which consists of laptops and desktops that iPhones would qualify and "make and spend" more money by a very large amount.
Correct. Now you're catching on.
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Alternatively, “desktop” implementations is just a closed laptop attached to a couple of external monitors, external keyboard and external keyboard. A laptop doesn’t have to be used as a portable computer, it can just be flat tower installed out of the way. While not cost effective, I’ve seen this installation in many offices.
Well Apple desktops used to be upgradeable. They are not anymore or they have a very limited upgradeability, so in reality, they no longer fit the desktop model.
And about being a closed laptop - sure. And the trend in consumer sales is towards notebooks. And the ability of switchables that combine tablet and notebook functionality also effectively threatens notebooks without touch screens and pads that can't effectively compute. Apple refuses to be in that ever increasing market place so they are jeopardizing their future IMO, all to keep separate two business units.
Nonetheless if one wants things that take a while to perform, speed is important and if the computer takes some real time to complete its task, power is called for. A desktop will effectively work out of hours too. Many businesses are using notebooks merely as an interface to a workstation that does the work and which serves many employees.
For us niche apple users, the question could be does one buy a Studio and an Air, or instead buy a MacBook Pro Max? And being an expensive MacBook Pro Max with lots of RAM and drive capacity, it's sensible to protect it by putting it in a protective case. And have a more costly back up protocol and an insurance policy. And it's a bulky and heavy unit. A 15" Air does most things and is a lot cheaper than a Max, and it's a heck of a lot more portable. My 16" Pro M3 Pro Max with case felt huge compared to my 15.4" Intel MacBook Pro. Which is an argument for a separate desktop and a cheaper notebook. And IMO desktops last longer too due to less internal stress and less cooling capability, although with Apple desktops these days, they are not upgradable, so eventually they will loose their performance edge.
I suppose the lack of Apple's desktops to be upgradeable does make the Apple desktop a more threatened species.
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Taking my comments out of context won’t win your argument, you have done nothing to backup your point that Gurman is right, you have failed to provide any evidence on your claim of R&D costs at Apple spent instead claiming it isn’t publicly available yet you assume to use the claims, which are not publicly available according to you, in the same breath. I’m done as you have nothing at all to offer to back up your claims.
and asking me for information that can't be provided won't win your argument
I didn't provide any less evidence than you did for saying the new M4 Studio will come out sometime this year
Again you asked for information that can't be provided unless I am missing Apple listed this out on one of their 10-Ks.
It's called an educated guess. This is Macrumors, not Macfacts. Yes I am taking an educated guess that because the iPhone has 5-6 times more revenue than the ENTIRE Mac lineup combined(Macbooks and desktops) that the iPhone probably has far more resources thrown at it than just the desktops which are probably accounting for far less than half of Mac sales. The iPhone might easily might be 20-30 times the revenue that Mac desktops make in a year(sorry I can't give you 'verified proof' of that statement but if you remotely believe any of the articles/surveys out there about the percentage of Macs that are laptops vs desktops then the statement holds true).
There are very few computer companies today where desktop development has priority. The demand is shrinking. Apple do not have a reputation to hold on to "historical artifacts", if they can avoid it.
My company, a midsized tech/research institute, once had hundreds of SGI workstations. Then we went to standard large linux PC boxes. Now 95% of the staff use notebooks with docking stations, the rest mac-mini sized PCs, but still mostly Linux. Despite the linux bit, I think we are rather typical.
My company, a midsized tech/research institute, once had hundreds of SGI workstations. Then we went to standard large linux PC boxes. Now 95% of the staff use notebooks with docking stations, the rest mac-mini sized PCs, but still mostly Linux. Despite the linux bit, I think we are rather typical.
Hah hah about the SGI workstations. But then, I recall when in Australia, an IBM PC (8088) with a mono non greyscale screen, cost $Au 14,000 (about $US10,000). I came with what was probably though an indestructible keyboard. And 5/4 inch floppy drives. Hard drives came a bit later.
We chased hardware for so long with software covering up deficiencies in speed/space. Now we have Genmojis on M4 chips 🙄🙄
I have a theory that might plausible. Gurman said next year for a Studio, that only makes sense if Apple is using its production to load the servers for Apple Cloud Intelligence. There’s only one foundry avaiable for that.
Apple to Power AI Features With M2 Ultra Servers
Apple plans to power some of its upcoming iOS 18 features with data centers that use servers equipped with Apple silicon chips, reports Bloomberg’s...
www.macrumors.com
Gurman reiterated his call yesterday that the Studio and Mac Pro would not get updated with the M4 until late 2025.
That info is below the AVP story.
www.bloomberg.com
That info is below the AVP story.
How Apple Plans to Turn the Vision Pro Into a Multiproduct Business
The Apple Vision Pro has gotten off to a slow start, spurring management to rethink its plans for the device. But the company still looks to turn the headset into a multiproduct category. Also: Apple continues its product-killing spree; the latest on a move to M4 Macs; and why Apple Intelligence...
www.bloomberg.com
wont we be on M5 by then? im sure the M4 pro mac mini i expect to buy in October should be better bang for the buck than an M2 Mac studio!Gurman reiterated his call yesterday that the Studio and Mac Pro would not get updated with the M4 until late 2025.
That info is below the AVP story.
How Apple Plans to Turn the Vision Pro Into a Multiproduct Business
The Apple Vision Pro has gotten off to a slow start, spurring management to rethink its plans for the device. But the company still looks to turn the headset into a multiproduct category. Also: Apple continues its product-killing spree; the latest on a move to M4 Macs; and why Apple Intelligence...
Gurman reiterated his call yesterday that the Studio and Mac Pro would not get updated with the M4 until late 2025.
That info is below the AVP story.
How Apple Plans to Turn the Vision Pro Into a Multiproduct Business
The Apple Vision Pro has gotten off to a slow start, spurring management to rethink its plans for the device. But the company still looks to turn the headset into a multiproduct category. Also: Apple continues its product-killing spree; the latest on a move to M4 Macs; and why Apple Intelligence...
"late 2025" is a bit pessimistic, I think. The article says "Mac Studio models will arrive around the second half of next year". This is pretty vague, but could mean anything from June to December 2025. If M4 Max MBPs are released before the end of 2024, preferably well before the end of the year (say Sep/Oct 2024), then I don't really see an M4 Max Studio waiting for another full year after that. Unless of course they plan on skipping both M3 *and* M4 generations and going to M5...it's...."possible"...but seems a bit of a stretch.
You have a point. If there is an M4 Pro Mac Mini and M4 Max MBP before the end of 2024 and doubtful likelihood of an M4 Max Studio within 3-4 months after that, then many people may well settle for an M4 Pro Mini if the performance is comparable with an M2 Max.
You're correct.
2nd half '25 could mean an announcement at WWDC '25 next June.
Hopefully we hear something at this fall's hardware reveals.
Except Apple has recently tended to release updates for an entire product line at once so he is implying that the Studio will be delayed pending the commercial release of the M4Ultra chip. That Apple won’t release an M4Max Studio unless there is an M4Ultra Studio also.
Basically Apple does not want to offer a M4Max Studio as competition to the more expensive MBP M4Max until Apple has M4Ultra Studio that they can upsell to consumers. If consumers want an M4Max bad enough, they can just buy a MBP and use it in a clamshell with a hub.
As competent the Mini might be (no matter the iteration), AAPL has always noticeably (and discernibly) gimped the mini; all-to-which is highlighted by the advent of the Studio.
Awesome piece of Kit it may very-well be, but the Mini will never directly compete with the Studio.
I agree with the above who said if they come with a powerful Mini many would not wait for an upgraded Studio and it would vanish sales of the pro line
Yes, and I find this sales model to be quite frustrating! You have to choose between:
(a) buying a laptop form-factor that you may not need, and paying at least $1200 more than the Studio with the same SoC
(b) waiting at least 6 months after the Mx MBP release to get the same SoC in the Studio
I understand that some percentage of people who opt for (a) above, would buy the Studio with Mx Max if they could, but I expect it is quite small. I would also expect the people who buy Mx Ultra are on a longer refresh cycle (commercial use) than consumers who want an Mx Max Studio, so I wish Apple would separate these two releases.
I would be OK with a 2-3 month delay in releasing the Max Studio after the Max MBP, so that Apple can fully milk the early adopters who will buy the Max MBP because they must have the latest and greatest, but 6 months wait just seems like a wasted sales opportunity to me.
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Hmm, not sure how you ended up apparently quoting some text that wasn’t in my post (“Mini != Max”), but in any case, I agree with you!
The M4 Mini may well be very close to the current M3 Max in CPU performance (and better in single core), but will no doubt lag in GPU performance, especially as there aren’t any huge improvements between M3 and M4 for GPU in the base SoC.
That said, if the future of the M4 Max Studio is uncertain, a certain percentage of people who are waiting for the new Studio may just settle for an M4 Pro Mini if it looks “good enough”. Maybe Apple doesn’t care, and prefers to have $1300 in the bank today (Mini) vs a possible $2000 in the 6 months’ time (Studio)
Personally if by October there is no new Studio I'd go for a 1TB Mini with 16GB and forget about the Studio, too long of a wait for a refresh