MacBook Air or PRO?

[phil.544]

Hi everyone. I own a late '16 13 inch Pro 4 thunderbolts, i7 w/ 16GB RAM. I was impressed with the new M1, overall by its general "iPad style" speed in waking up and opening apps.

Do you think it's worth upgrading my machine to a M1 13" Pro or wait until next year for a new hardware with possibly a 14" display?I feel like going from my dual core i7 to the M1 will already be like using a completely different machine (including scissor keyboard)

 

[JDGwf]

Did you go 8 core or 7 core graphics?

The Pro only has the 8 core GPU option

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[chad.petree]

I owned a 13" MBP and 21" iMac simultaneously back in the day. I meticulously manage my photo and iTunes libraries, so trying to keep the two filesystems synced was a pain in the ass for me, and not worth the hassle. I won't lie and say I'm not tempted to own a new 13" Air and next year's redesigned 16", though.

Redesigned 16"? I think they will slap a microled screen and an ARM chip and call it a day! It's Apple we are talking about :/

 

[deeddawg]

Is anyone else waiting until the laptops are released before buying? I feel like it's impossible to tell if we want a MBA vs MBP13 yet because despite having 'the same' CPU depending on under what conditions the MBA chip will be limited by heat limitations is currently unknown is it not?

The classic old advice on when to buy a computer still applies -- if you need it now, buy it now. If you don't need it now, wait.

Really though the decision is fairly clear if you're understanding of your needs. If your needs are for continuous sustained CPU loads then choose the Pro. If your needs are more a matter of brief bursty CPU usage choose the Air. Buy from a vendor whom you can easily return the system to if it doesn't meet your needs.

As for seeing people's results getting the systems, this is MacRumors. We'll have tons of Armchair Engineers piping up with their ideas of what Apple shoulda done instead.

Edit - I'd also say that if your needs are for a silent-no-matter-what system, then the Air would be the clear choice. Or if you're someone who loves the touchbar, then the Pro may be the clear choice. Still a matter of first defining your individual needs and then seeing which one matches.

 

[JDGwf]

The classic old advice on when to buy a computer still applies -- if you need it now, buy it now. If you don't need it now, wait.

Really though the decision is fairly clear if you're understanding of your needs. If your needs are for continuous sustained CPU loads then choose the Pro. If your needs are more a matter of brief bursty CPU usage choose the Air. Buy from a vendor whom you can easily return the system to if it doesn't meet your needs.

As for seeing people's results getting the systems, this is MacRumors. We'll have tons of Armchair Engineers piping up with their ideas of what Apple shoulda done instead.

I completely agree! I don't need a new computer by any means, but my newest Mac is 2009, so this is a prime time to upgrade that platform.

90% of my computing (and technically develpment being a node/web developer this cycle) needs can be completed on my Raspberry Pi (it might take a bit longer, but all the software works well). I'm all for the new Mac Platform because of my iOS use and the battery efficiency.

Having a new Mac with developer pane access to the Safari specific bugs (and I do get them on occasion with some Javascript functions vs Chrome and Firefox) will be quite helpful.

 

[Benjo-14]

Is with fast ssd ram swap a big issue?
Or how handle a Mac a ram shortage?

 

[deeddawg]

I completely agree! I don't need a new computer by any means, but my newest Mac is 2009, so this is a prime time to upgrade that platform.

Yeah, I'd say a 2009 vintage system is ripe for being upgraded. Though I'd also say that since you've already waited 11 years you can probably manage a few more weeks to get a sense of what real world results are with this.

One key question is going to be RAM needs. While some folks seem to think anything without a quarter-terabyte of RAM is utterly useless, the fact is that macOS is already pretty efficient in RAM utilization on Intel - and it will be interesting to see how they do on ARM. Will the same workloads generate more or less ram utilization? So if on the fence of 8 vs 16GB, that may be something to look for in real world usage before pulling the trigger.

 

[deeddawg]

Is with fast ssd ram swap a big issue?
Or how handle a Mac a ram shortage?

macOS is very good at virtual memory, and with a fast SSD you'll typically see minimal performance impact even if you are swapping. Far better than the case was with the old slow spindle drives. Sure, there are certain scenarios where you're thrashing the swap file and will have a noticeable impact, but those are kinda specific and folks prone to that sort of situation typically are also sufficiently knowledgeable that they already know the answer to the question you asked.

What is your use case that you're concerned with RAM utilization? Do you have a mac already? What does Activity Monitor say on the Memory tab with the Memory Pressure graph?

 

[startergo]

Throttling isn't a thing with the M1, the chips will be designed to give the best performance they can within the TDP/cooling solution.

Throttling happens when you pair a chip that produces too much heat for the machine to handle. You think Apple are going to put an unrestricted 25w TDP M1 in the Air and let it just smash it's face into the thermal wall?

If that is the case why the need for a fan in a same chip spec on a MBP?

 

[citivolus]

Great thing about Apple is their products retain value. You can always offload your device for a small depreciation and get the Apple Silicon device they release in the spring/summer.

That's exactly why I ordered the base model AS Air. I expect a refresh of both the Air and Pro next year to include things like FaceID. I will sell my 2020 AS Air at a loss of about $100 and would be very happy to then upgrade.

 

[ascender]

In the end I've ordered an 8 core Air with 16GB RAM. Much as I prefer the design of the Pro, I can't justify the extra money for the small improvements (for me) - if the Air really is as fast as they say, its going to be more than powerful enough for me and a fanless design is a big bonus. If I'm doing video encoding, I don't mind if it takes a bit longer but is silent.

 

[Maconplasma]

I'll wait for the reviews from Max Tech. Right now the 13" MacBook Pro seems more like a glorified MacBook.

 

[colfourbin]

I ordered the 13" MBP with 16gb RAM and 2tb HD. The extra ports for me are primarily used for external HD but with more internal storage I can eliminate the need for this (I have never before purchased a Mac with more than a 512gb HD). I do video editing and work with PS layers which can get intensive. Either way this laptop is a stop-gap solution for me until the higher powered 16" AS MBP arrives. My wife will inherit the 13" I am buying now. Unfortunately my 2018 MBP has a swollen battery and is showing signs of bombing out so I needed to get something.

 

[gtg465x]

Redesigned 16"? I think they will slap a microled screen and an ARM chip and call it a day! It's Apple we are talking about :/

I'd be down with that just for the microled.

 

[LiE_]

If that is the case why the need for a fan in a same chip spec on a MBP?

You say same chip, but it will be given a different TDP, produce more heat, be a bit faster and need active cooling. As I said, the chips are tuned to the chassis. They may share the same name, but M1 will come in different flavours.

 

[Benjo-14]

macOS is very good at virtual memory, and with a fast SSD you'll typically see minimal performance impact even if you are swapping. Far better than the case was with the old slow spindle drives. Sure, there are certain scenarios where you're thrashing the swap file and will have a noticeable impact, but those are kinda specific and folks prone to that sort of situation typically are also sufficiently knowledgeable that they already know the answer to the question you asked.

What is your use case that you're concerned with RAM utilization? Do you have a mac already? What does Activity Monitor say on the Memory tab with the Memory Pressure graph?

That’s sounds good!
Just to be sure don’t make a fault.
I gerneral have office stuff. And raw photo editing. But I want also to be able to cut a 4K movie.
For more intense work I will use my iMac 27 (Late2016) 24GB which beside a fusion drive I have never a issue with the performance.

BTY: THX for your reply!

 

[Benjo-14]

Is anyone else waiting until the laptops are released before buying? I feel like it's impossible to tell if we want a MBA vs MBP13 yet because despite having 'the same' CPU depending on under what conditions the MBA chip will be limited by heat limitations is currently unknown is it not?

I understood that is a case of heat.
But how often you drive your at ofer at full speeds for hours. Almost none despite your want to go on a racetrack.
In this case you need a racecar.
I’m pretty fine with my MBA order!

 

[deeddawg]

That’s sounds good!
Just to be sure don’t make a fault.
I gerneral have office stuff. And raw photo editing. But I want also to be able to cut a 4K movie.
For more intense work I will use my iMac 27 (Late2016) 24GB which beside a fusion drive I have never a issue with the performance.

BTY: THX for your reply!

For those purposes, if you're seeking to choose between 8 & 16GB RAM, I would lean to the 16GB RAM option. That said, I have no experience with 4K video, so don't know if that'd be an issue. Yet if you're fine with a 24GB RAM imac doing this you're likely going to be fine in 16GB. and you're welcome.

 

[maswriter]

I'm out of the Mac market since I got my MBP 16 in September. If my old one hadn't conked out, I'd have a hard time deciding between the MBA and MBP 13 with M1. You might get a little more power from the MBP because the CPU can be ramped up because of cooling. However, the MBA has enough power for everything a typical user would want to do. We'll know for sure once real-world compatibility and performance results come out.

I'd still wait for the next MacBooks to come out next year. At very least, I'd hold out for better FaceTime cameras. Even with the improved DSP, they're still not 1080p.

 

[startergo]

You say same chip, but it will be given a different TDP, produce more heat, be a bit faster and need active cooling. As I said, the chips are tuned to the chassis. They may share the same name, but M1 will come in different flavours.

I will agree with you as soon as we compare the test results. And don't get me wrong I wish that is the case. So we want to see how long will they run with 100% CPU load.

 

[dolbinau]

I understood that is a case of heat.
But how often you drive your at ofer at full speeds for hours. Almost none despite your want to go on a racetrack.
In this case you need a racecar.
I’m pretty fine with my MBA order!

Yes I guess my key question is what constitutes full utilisation on this architecture in terms of real-world usage? I assume given how hyped the chip is in terms of performance it would have be something quite demanding but it appears to currently be an unknown?

 

[Mike Boreham]

I think folks have varying ideas of what "throttling" means.

Using the more general definition, all modern CPUs perform throttling as part of their basic design. If they did not, then they're leaving potential performance on the table by not being able to briefly burst - temporarily generating more heat than can be dissipated on a continued basis, then backing off as the CPU temperature rises towards the sustainable limit.

Absolutely! Some folks seem to regard throttling as the work of the devil and only found in fundamentally flawed designs. Throttling is a legitimate design tool and (IMHO) the preferable alternative to the complexity, cost and noise of a fan and thermal pipe.

I am not convinced that the throttling will be avoided by controlling the chip to avoid it as some suggest, but it doesn't matter either way. I expect it will be a combination.

I have been an enthusiastic user of the fanless 12" MacBook for the last few years, I see throttling all the time. It really is a non event. Even sustained high load does not reduce performance nearly as much as you would think from way throttling is perceived. Some good long threads with data in the MacBook section.

I haven't hesitated to go the fanless Air route in upgrading my 12" MacBook.

Not saying there aren't some sustained high load cases where the a fan will get the job done quicker, only that throttling is much less of an issue than some think.

 

[ADGrant]

You say same chip, but it will be given a different TDP, produce more heat, be a bit faster and need active cooling. As I said, the chips are tuned to the chassis. They may share the same name, but M1 will come in different flavours.

The air will have a TDP of 10W, I would expect the Pro's TDP to be 15W assuming they retained the single fan of the Intel model it replaced.

 

[ADGrant]

The secret is to keep one connected to the monitors and the dock at home

Or you could just buy a Mac mini to connect to the monitors.

 

[Zackmd1]

The Pro only has the 8 core GPU option

Buy MacBook Pro

Discover the MacBook Pro laptop with the M4 family of chips, built for Apple Intelligence. Get credit when you trade in an eligible Mac. Buy now.

www.apple.com

The step up option for the Air has the full 8 core GPU.

I went with the 8gb/512gb step up air after having the base Pro in my cart.... I figured I would be better served with more space then better sustained performance considering my workflow consists of more burst type operations and not sustained workloads.