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Veinticinco

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Feb 25, 2009
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Yeh sure, the actual OLED looks nice. Everything else looks bloody awful.
Yes well that's a given. Sony doesn't really do aesthetics very well these days. Actually not true, some things yes, but definitely not TVs, displays etc.

Imagine that waif-like, low-power, pin-sharp, HD quality screen encased by a thin black bezel as part of a black anodized aluminium MBA with SL9600 CPU, 256GB SSD, 4GB RAM....etc. I think I've just drooled involuntarily.
 

Veinticinco

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2009
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The timing of WWDC is sort of coincidental.
Is correct. Irrelevant almost. It's a milestone event for software developers, and will have no effect on hardware updates, except to say I'd imagine there will be no direct new Mac product announcements during the conference itself to avoid PR overlap.
 

applecultvictim

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Mar 27, 2009
549
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I am not impressed with these screens, do they make for less eye strain and easier reading? There's no hd in a 13 inch machine. Anyway 99.9% of the good shows and movies have already been shot and not in hd so who cares about the hd garbage that gets done nowadays. Make better reading screens intead.
 

Scottsdale

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Is correct. Irrelevant almost. It's a milestone event for software developers, and will have no effect on hardware updates, except to say I'd imagine there will be no direct new Mac product announcements during the conference itself to avoid PR overlap.

I don't think Apple makes any announcement at WWDC, but that doesn't mean that they will not the week before or two weeks after. I think history shows that Apple can update the Mac anytime, and has around WWDC before... just not at WWDC, as it would take attention off the software.

I am all for anytime in June. On the front page of MR, there is a Quad Core rumor for Calpella in Q3 2009, and those CPUs are mighty expensive and although have four cores are slower clock speeds, so for average Mac user with current software, would be slower than current CPUs.

I believe it points to not in this update and more likely Arrandale for the updates after these next updates to the Mac notebooks (inc. MBA). Lastly, it touched on what I mentioned, that we will probably see Nvidia with these updates in June, then will be forced to switch back to Intel with the Arrandale CPU update, unless Nvidia and Intel renew and improve relations. Makes even more sense for another update before Apple is forced to switch back to Intel graphics... would really be bad for all of us. Let's hope Nvidia and Intel can repair that relationship and let Nvidia GPU pair with the Intel Nehalem CPU...
 

glitch44

macrumors 65816
Feb 28, 2006
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I am not impressed with these screens, do they make for less eye strain and easier reading? There's no hd in a 13 inch machine. Anyway 99.9% of the good shows and movies have already been shot and not in hd so who cares about the hd garbage that gets done nowadays. Make better reading screens intead.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the intention of your post... but do you think that movies and TV shows have to be shot on high definition cameras to be HD? You do know that most 1 hour drama TV shows (and single camera comedies) are shot on film and can be scanned to high definition media (such has Blu Ray)?
 

Scottsdale

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the intention of your post... but do you think that movies and TV shows have to be shot on high definition cameras to be HD? You do know that most 1 hour drama TV shows (and single camera comedies) are shot on film and can be scanned to high definition media (such has Blu Ray)?

I think the point was that in the past HD wasn't available, and the vast majority of movies and etc were not originally shot in HD.

My view is for the future. Don't we all want what's best moving forward with technology. For me, the MBA display is so beautiful because it is crisp, it has extremely vibrant colors (depending on what image looking at), darks are like a black hole and lights are as bright as the Sun, and finally from any angle it still looks brilliant. It's about all around performance and picture not just how a movie in HD looks on it.

Also, one should compliment the GPU which allows output (paired with mini Display Port) on up to a 30" Apple Cinema Display with excellent performance and clarity. Sure the uMB and uMBP have same GPU capabilities, but the GPU/mini Display Port is so much better than the original MBA's graphics output capabilities.

I am a big time advocate of the rev B MBA. And the display is one of the biggest reasons why it is so superior to the prior MBA and to the unibody MB.
 

Nugget

Contributor
Nov 24, 2002
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I think the point was that in the past HD wasn't available, and the vast majority of movies and etc were not originally shot in HD.

Sure, but the (valid) counterpoint is that the vast majority of "movies and etc" were originally shot on film which means the good ones are likely to be released in HD. Heck, they just released the original Star Trek TV series in HD on Blu-Ray. That's from 1966 and they didn't shoot it "in HD" either. :)

And, keeping on topic -- I'm waiting on rev C to buy a MBA which will replace my '06-era MBP. We've got a few current gen MBAs at the office and I love the form factor. It's just been too long since the last update for me to feel safe buying right now.
 

Scottsdale

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Sure, but the (valid) counterpoint is that the vast majority of "movies and etc" were originally shot on film which means the good ones are likely to be released in HD. Heck, they just released the original Star Trek TV series in HD on Blu-Ray. That's from 1966 and they didn't shoot it "in HD" either. :)

And, keeping on topic -- I'm waiting on rev C to buy a MBA which will replace my '06-era MBP. We've got a few current gen MBAs at the office and I love the form factor. It's just been too long since the last update for me to feel safe buying right now.

I get that. Some people just aren't pro advancements in technology or don't think the way others of us do. My Pops acts like John Wayne and doesn't care if something is on HD, he says VHS and old movies "add character."

Sometimes it just isn't worth the hassle to explain... I think that is the case right now. Some just aren't going to agree and will find any reason to not go along with the ideas of many.
 

Scottsdale

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Should we change the title of this thread as suggested by others early on.

MacBook Air rev C, "Everything we know, and everything we want."

Or something like that???
 

applecultvictim

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2009
549
0
I get that. Some people just aren't pro advancements in technology or don't think the way others of us do. My Pops acts like John Wayne and doesn't care if something is on HD, he says VHS and old movies "add character."

Sometimes it just isn't worth the hassle to explain... I think that is the case right now. Some just aren't going to agree and will find any reason to not go along with the ideas of many.

Points well taken from scotts and the rest of you guys.

I am of course pro tec progress if it's usefull not for the hype or for the sake of it, ie:
Fast ssd and ram being the bottleneck over quad core cpus in lappies
New form factors such as the mactablet
Better reading screens for LESS eye strain with say epaper than super extra hhhd oled.
 

applecultvictim

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2009
549
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I second that too, but there was a her active thread on this we used up until a week or so ago that I think should be merged with this. See your cp, most of us posted there.
 

Scottsdale

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I have a friend who gets information through a family member who says that the next Mac notebook updates will not include an MBA update.

I sure hope the information is incorrect or the person just doesn't know, but the person has supposedly previously called many things correctly. My friend told me about the "docking station" like capabilities of the ACD before it was released last year. Obviously the power cable for the Mac notebooks, with USB hub, speakers, camera, built in.

Got no other information as to time frames or anything... just no MBA updates with next MB and MBP updates.

This is my worst fear. I wonder if Apple isn't proceeding with the MBA? I would assume that if the MB and MBP get updated later than July, that the information may be incorrect? As the more time before release, the greater possibility information is incomplete or inaccurate. Is Apple changing the case to be thinner? Are they changing to carbon fiber? A more portable MBA is senseless to me. I want a more powerful MBA in the same case.

I sure hope we start seeing some POSITIVE rumors PRO MBA. I am nervous and thinking I should buy a rev B MBA now for a potentially long wait.
 

Unprocessed1

macrumors 65816
Jun 23, 2008
1,389
58
I'm sure Apple isn't selling many Macbook Airs, if they're going to stop updating them. They were hoping to get 16-18% of Airs as a total of all mac laptops by Jan 2009, but I just don't think that's ever going to happen now, especially since the new macbook has better specs, a nice screen and is only 1.5 lbs heavier.

I also think the very high prices for the Rev A's led to a reputation of the Air being an overpriced luxury item, which is a hard image to break, even though the prices have been dropped.
 

iMacmatician

macrumors 601
Jul 20, 2008
4,249
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I have a friend who gets information through a family member who says that the next Mac notebook updates will not include an MBA update.

I sure hope the information is incorrect or the person just doesn't know, but the person has supposedly previously called many things correctly. My friend told me about the "docking station" like capabilities of the ACD before it was released last year. Obviously the power cable for the Mac notebooks, with USB hub, speakers, camera, built in.

Got no other information as to time frames or anything... just no MBA updates with next MB and MBP updates.

This is my worst fear. I wonder if Apple isn't proceeding with the MBA? I would assume that if the MB and MBP get updated later than July, that the information may be incorrect? As the more time before release, the greater possibility information is incomplete or inaccurate. Is Apple changing the case to be thinner? Are they changing to carbon fiber? A more portable MBA is senseless to me. I want a more powerful MBA in the same case.

I sure hope we start seeing some POSITIVE rumors PRO MBA. I am nervous and thinking I should buy a rev B MBA now for a potentially long wait.
That's not good news, but previous rumors didn't mention a MacBook Air update. So I think it's a bit more likely that Apple is waiting for the 40 nm iGPU for lower heat (at least I'm assuming the 40 nm will be cooler). The other notebooks are probably going to use the 9400M and the GT 100 series GPUs (40 nm the update after that).

Either that, or it'll be like the MacBook Pro and iMac in 2007; the regular notebooks will get a standard bump in June while the MacBook Air will get a more substantial bump (case changes?) in August or so.

Waiting for a cooler GPU may be because Apple wants to make the MacBook Air thinner.
 

Scottsdale

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I'm sure Apple isn't selling many Macbook Airs, if they're going to stop updating them. They were hoping to get 16-18% of Airs as a total of all mac laptops by Jan 2009, but I just don't think that's ever going to happen now, especially since the new macbook has better specs, a nice screen and is only 1.5 lbs heavier.

I also think the very high prices for the Rev A's led to a reputation of the Air being an overpriced luxury item, which is a hard image to break, even though the prices have been dropped.

I know about three times as many people who bought the original as the new model MBA. At the same time, those who did buy the original, that I know, had terrible experiences and most of whom felt wronged as I did. I think the original was such a huge failure, that Apple should have admitted all of its problems and done a recall of some sort/or exchange for new model.

People shouldn't be forced to undervolt their MBA to make it work. Not applying thermal paste correctly is ridiculous. Even now, with software corrections a year later, the original is still problematic without aftermarket fixes like Cool Book. And before those fixes were introduced, the original MBA just didn't work like anyone would expect a MAC to work. We were not warned that the original MBA was a Mac LIGHT (incapable of everything people would expect from a Mac).

But, for as bad as the original MBA was, the rev B MBA is absolutely amazing. It is everything I could want in a Mac, less 4 GB of RAM. I think Apple should have been more public about the failures than just reducing the price by 50% and selling them as refurbished units.

In the end, EVERYONE LOST who are/were the original intended buyers of the MBA. The only people that "won" were those who were not intended buyers of the MBA. The original was sold as a Primary Mac to business professionals, students, college professors, consultants, writers, speakers, and etc as a PREMIUM PRODUCT a luxury to have MB type capabilities with professional display and super portability. The refurbished MBA was sold to a completely different market. The refurbished MBA was sold to typical MB buyers. These people got an MBA for less than a MB, and had completely different expectations of the MBA. The refurbished buyers feel great because they know it's limitations, but get super portability and an amazing display and it works as a secondary Mac. The original MBA target market had to buy TWO MBAs to get one that worked. That made a lot of the target market furious at Apple's practices... myself included. The original should have never been released. It was a failure, and those who bought it refurbished were the only winners.

What happened was Apple destroyed its own brand and ticked off its target market for the MBA when it released an inferior product, replaced it with a superior product, then dropped the price of the original so greatly that ALL of the original buyers ended up being LOSERS in the game. And to get the Mac they were originally promised, they had to rebuy the rev B MBA. So us original buyers had to buy two MBAs, and the original we had to sell at extreme discounts which was due to Apple's dumping them after the failure.

So, of the target audience that I know who bought the original, 1/3 ended up rebuying the rev B MBA, 1/3 replaced it with a MBP, and 1/4 switched to other computers, and remainder still has original MBA (one that I know). Funny thing is, I don't know ANYBODY that bought an original MBA refurbished. This is absolute proof of my assertion, IN MY MIND, that the target audience is NOT who is buying the original MBA refurbished.

Nonetheless, I hope the MBA succeeds and recovers fully from its original failures. I have to believe that the future of the MacBook is the current state of the MacBook Air. Seems like a MacBook two years from now will probably not have an optical drive and will be thinner and more portable like the current MBA.

Also, one has to believe that the MacBook Air could fully recover if Apple can reinvigorate sales by differentiating the MBA with a black anodized aluminum case (as suggested in this thread by MR member - Carl Abudephane). Also, a far superior display, and more power seems like the MBA could target its original intended market well. As the power of the MBA increases, the more it seems the intended market would use it as a primary Mac.

The MBA has to be focused as a primary Mac for its intended market. To ensure its capabilities to be the market's primary Mac, it needs a larger hard drive, more RAM, and more powerful battery. The rev B MBA isn't far off, but a rev C MBA could really change the future of the MBA and make the MBA the pride of the Mac instead of the original as anything but the pride of the Mac.

I really hope the MBA succeeds, and I believe it can if it's updated, NOW!
 

Scottsdale

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Hey Scottsdale! Well, all we can do is hope that your friends' contact is, in this instance, mistaken.
Lot's to think about and ponder upon here to be honest.
On the one hand, one has to think(at least hereabouts, in the Air forum)that Apple would be making a mistake if they decided to end-of-life the Air. No need to recap all the reasons here as to why we love the Air so much, except to say that although I thought it beautiful when looking at it in-store, it wasn't until I actually owned one and used it, that I really appreciated just how fabulous a machine it is, and, more importantly(as my girlfriend has a MacBook Pro and that is a fabulous machine), just what an experience it is to have and use one. Some might say I'm being a little pretentious in saying that, but really, as most of us know here, even amongst Macs the Air is a breed apart, and transcends 'normal' computer ownership even more than other Macs(which is what Macs do anyway!).

On the other hand, the one thing I keep coming back to, and not being able to understand, is how badly(if at all)the Air is treated in Apple's retail stores. This, for me, is the one and only factor that makes me begin to doubt whether the Air, as it is, has any future. The fact is that in my experience, based on seeing the Air in three separate Apple stores(two Manchester, one Liverpool), and seeing it very much shunted into the corner near the entrance, just one unit, often in a poor state(which leads me to think that it doesn't get checked etc as other store Macs do), basically being the bastard child that is to be hidden away & not acknowledged, leads me to conclude that the situation is this:

The Air is currently available therefore has to be represented as an available mac in the Apple store. However the directive is, that this machine is not to be focused on from a customer perspective(won't sell - MacBook will), is not to use up valuable store space from units that will sell, in short - put one out there(in least attractive 'spot')in the store but unless specifically asked about, forget it and move on to products we actively have a reason to support.

To cut a long story short, this product is currently 'available' but not for much longer, so it must have a 'prescence' in-store'. Do the minimum, from every angle.
Also, why haven't Apple simply taken whatever step is necessary to stop Airs with lines being sent out and sold? Well, why bother, it'll be gone soon.
I don't mean to be pessimistic here, it's just that the above is the only way I can understand it's profile in their stores.


The frustrating thing is that I, we, feel that the Air could become, with a little 'adjusting', a nigh-on irresistible proposition for many more folks. A stumbling block, when the MacBook is out there(forget about the 'Books crap screen as apparently most people who go for it actually like the screen!)is always gonna be it's cost(unless that came down a bit)but that has to be even more obviously a price worth paying than it is at the moment.
Right now, to a lot of prospective purchaser's the only thing they are seeing for so much more money is the thinner profile and the weight. It's simply not enough.
The black Air, as well as being something I suggested because I personally just think it would look the dogs bollocks, also seems to be a sure-fire way to instantly give it a huge infusion of added allure, based on what happened with the black MacBook.
I firmly believe that the reason Apple went with white as the continuing colour for the plastic MacBook when the aluminium models were introduced is that the black models would still have been attracting attention in-store, and Apple positively wanted the uni's to be getting all the attention, understandably. They wanted to keep the low-end option, but only in a way that left an open field for the new kids on the block.
Introduce a black Air with a bump in specs that will cement it's ability to be a primary Mac for a lot of people and I am certain it will move units big-time.

This is my big question though: Do Apple want it to? I'm not sure they do. Would they want, for example, a black metal Air pulling attention away from their unibody-babies? I don't think so.
Why not just carry on selling tons of MacBooks & MBPro's, as well as developing(if they are)the netbook or tablet concept or whatever.
Is the Airs future simply the MacBook, gradually getting thinner & thinner and always keeping the crappy screen.
Maybe all of this is unneccesary waffle. Maybe they're about do something notable with the Air.
Maybe they'll introduce it in two sizes, two colours, two wildly different specs and send out even more of an indicator(as if it was needed, seeing as it's latest challenger, the woeful Adamo)that with the Air, Apple is demonstrating just what it can do.
Imagine, a year from now, a jet-black, OLED screen-equipped, high-spec Air that could out-perform MBPro's from 2008/9, in two separate sizes.
Perhaps the MacBook is an Air with lower spec, cheaper screen, cheaper graphics, one colour, etc ...
Anyway, if this contact is correct, and the Air is not updated with the other notebooks sometime soon I think we will have the answer. I couldn't see them keeping it around much longer as is; why bother? It would be even less attractive than it currently is to people going to buy an Apple notebook.
Not that it matters anyway; it's virtually a forgotten product in their stores now.

MacRumors? We need an Air rumour(a positive one!), and we need it soon.

Now that's one of my favorite kind of posts... a long one. HA HA. I often get noted for going on and on. I figure I have deserved my 500 posts. Each one is usually well thought out and comes with more than 30 seconds of typing.

I agree that Apple has absolutely given up on the MBA in stores. Where I used to see two and three MBAs, I now see one. It is never in prominent placement, and nobody seems to care. Never have to wait to use the one that is there. I think this is Apple's doing, but I think it's because of the original MBA's failure, that this is the case.

I highly agree, as soon as I read your comment about a black MBA, that it could completely change the attitude of the MBA as a premium product that deserves attention. How much more simple could it be? Seems like an easy fix to the atmosphere and attitude of those who see an MBA in their future.

I think the MBA has a loyal following here on MR, but I just don't know what that means in terms of how many MBAs Apple is selling.

I sure hope the future is brighter than its current standing. Seems obvious that the future of the MacBook is the current MBA, so maybe that alone keeps the MBA going in the short term. Possible that Apple is planning a spec bump but no real progress for the MBA. Also possible that we get a major overhaul focusing on power once Arrandale is ready. Also possible that the major overhaul is in the more portable, ULV CPU, lighter Carbon Fiber case, and etc.

I guess anything is possible since we have no clue where Apple is going in terms of recent rumors. We have basically seen no rumors for six months about the next MBA. The last of the rumors was 15" MBA this Summer. I guess that is possible too. I would take a 3.5 lb MBA with thin case, hi-res display, six-hour battery, standard size 2.5" SATA drive, and etc. I guess that would make sense in terms of premium product in both 13" and 15" display sizes that is an upgrade from MB, with better quality and more portability, yet not powerful like a "Pro" Mac computer.

I want to see updates in June no matter what we are getting. Right now I am suffering with a unibody MB. I really want to own an MBA. If no new MBA is introduced in June, and the other Mac notebooks are updated, I will buy a rev B MBA with SSD and 1.86 and wait it out with an MBA. I just hate the idea of paying so much for OLD technology and potentially end up with lines on my display!

Going to say some extra prayers after today's news... LOL
 

qubex

macrumors 6502
To summarise, of I may indulge my whimsy: regarding the MacBookAir Rev. C we know nothing, we want everything (with some minor cosmetic disagreements) and we want it now. In abscence of new rumours, our speculation has basically ground to a halt. The last few posts metaspeculate about when it might be possible to speculate on a more sound footing.

I want an Air, I really do need a machine of that form factor quite badly. The sooner the better. The present offering is obsolete. Apple knows this but as they've demonstrated with the Mac Mini and Mac Pro yearlong stasis they're so satisfied with their iPod, iPhone and iTunes revenue streams they don't give a rat's ass about hardware, even ultrahigh-margin sales such as the aforementioned Mac Pro and the Air.

Since recent Snow Leopard betas have broken out WWLAN connectivity into a seperate item in the configuration manager, I'm starting to think they won't even release new laptops until Snow Leopard is released. The relevant strings are nowhere to be found in 10.5.7 (but they could easily have a custom internal build).

There's really not much more to say: it looks like Apple has a new zombie product on it's shelves, like the stillborn AppleTV that somehow still haunts the stores but is essentially stuck in a timewarp. I bet they'll dump an underpowered Netbook on us, ignoring everybody who needs extreme portability and decent power. I'm sure you've all read the reports of 10.5.7 boosting the battery life of Intel Atom-based Hackintosh netbooks. They've probably decided to flood the lower-end since they figure the economic climate will not favour a premium ultraportable. They'll probably shrink the Air's case to a 10-inch screen form-factor and introduce a touch-screen of some type. The worst outcome would be the adoption of a jailed iPhone-OS derived platform that denies users the most basic liberties with their computer: iWork, Office, Mathematica don't even exist on the iPhone platform (not surprisingly). Wolfram's licenses cost thousands per seat - I live in terror of needing to relicense Matematica 7. I 'm sure similar thoughts apply to those of you who use Adobe's Photoshop or Illustrator, or who use Aperture or FinalCut. It'd be terrifying.

Hopefully the next few weeks will prove me wrong. Unfortunately these days even the bleakest pessimism frequently fails to capture the actual outcomes.

Infuriating, frustrating.
 

Veinticinco

macrumors 65816
Feb 25, 2009
1,483
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Infuriating, frustrating.
That's also my mindset these last few days, tinged even with a hint of despair (thanks to Scottsdale's post) :(

I swore I wouldn't but I'm giving it until the end of June then I'm jumping back onto the B/1.86/SSD. Even if I make them open every bloody box in the store until I find a line-free example. Still yet to see one in the wild, but hope springs eternal...

Meanwhile my dear old Cube sits there watching me suffer the angst, rolling its eyes and shaking its head ruefully, the wizened old vet who's seen this all before and (perhaps) knows what's coming... :eek:
 

HLdan

macrumors 603
Aug 22, 2007
6,383
0
That's also my mindset these last few days, tinged even with a hint of despair (thanks to Scottsdale's post) :(

I swore I wouldn't but I'm giving it until the end of June then I'm jumping back onto the B/1.86/SSD. Even if I make them open every bloody box in the store until I find a line-free example. Still yet to see one in the wild, but hope springs eternal...

Meanwhile my dear old Cube sits there watching me suffer the angst, rolling its eyes and shaking its head ruefully, the wizened old vet who's seen this all before and (perhaps) knows what's coming... :eek:

You'd be better off waiting for Rev C if one will ever exist. It's true that Apple doesn't give a rats behind about the Air in their stores for some reason? I've only seen one or maybe two depending on the store. Maybe it's because it's a premium product and it wouldn't be an everyday seller like the plain old basic Macbooks.

I'm saying to wait it out for Rev C because too many of you here read about the screen lines, read about other posters who think they are going to get a perfect one, report here that they bought it and are upset (as if they didn't expect the lines to be there), then report day after day after day after day that they have exchanged it over and over and over until the store refused to open another box.
At this point since you are aware of the lines (although this forum makes the lines out to be way more of a problem than they really are) don't buy a Rev B Air, you will most likely end up with one with lines. Don't think for one minute that you can make the store open up the entire inventory till you get one you're happy with. Usually after 3 swaps they will offer your money back. Just wait it out.
 

hohohong

macrumors 6502a
Jun 1, 2007
542
8
What is the "Line issue"? I googled it,.... and saw 2 sample pictures, but only can really see a subtle line across the apple logo on the top left corner on one of the picture.

If anyone else has more picture, please lemme know.
 
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