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There was a time not so long ago that you needed the most power Apple put unto their machines to give said machine any kind of legs.

No longer. Apple silicon is a revolution. My M2 MBA 13" is the best laptop I've ever had BY A LONGSHOT and FAAAAAR exceeds my needs for a computer.

An MBP is EXACTLY what its name implies: A machine for demanding professionals that need every inch of the additional power over an MBA in order to make money, either via shortened workflows or sustained high-performance over long periods, coupled with portability.

Since the M1 came out, and in the Mac space, when Apple says "Pro" they mean it.
Agreed that with adequate RAM on board an MBP with a Max M (1,2, or 3) chip can be a machine for demanding professionals as you state. The M-Max chip is a beast, with each newer model stronger still. However your post implies that MBPs are only for demanding professionals, which is not correct.

MBPs at lower spec base and pro chips are fully appropriate for folks with lesser needs who want more ports than MBA, the better MBP display and the better MBP speakers as well as performance room to grow.
 
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Trying to figure out the best bang-for-your-buck laptop here - I need RAM more than I need super processors, but as soon as you bump the 15" MBA up to 24GB of RAM, you're now only $100 or so away from the base 14" MBP with 18GB of RAM.

But then why get the base 14" with 18GB RAM... when for another $200 you could get the M3 Pro base which already has 18GB, and you get a MUCH better machine.

There are so many configs - anyone got a good guide for the most value you can get building a MBP config?
 
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Trying to figure out the best bang-for-your-buck laptop here - I need RAM more than I need super processors, but as soon as you bump the 15" MBA up to 24GB of RAM, you're now only $100 or so away from the base 14" MBP with 18GB of RAM.

But then why get the base 14" with 18GB RAM... when for another $200 you could get the M3 Pro base which already has 18GB, and you get a MUCH better machine.

There are so many configs - anyone got a good guide for the most value you can get building a MBP config?
MBP rather than MBA for sure. MBPs have more ports, better displays, better speakers and better performance in every regard. MBAs are lighter and cheaper if you do not need any of those things I listed.

All M chips are hella powerful, but each level of chip base/Pro/Max adds huge additional CPU performance. IMO the fact that M3 MBPs are now out means M2 deals are available, and chip level (base vs. Pro vs. Max) is more relevant than M2 vs. M3.

No M3 will be best value today unless one needs the highest end performance or 128 GB RAM. I would avoid M1 as too old to buy new today unless some spectacular M1-Max deal with lots of RAM presented. I would avoid base level chip as relatively too low power. So find an M2 Pro or Max with at least double the RAM you think you need today, because apps/OS always take advantage of more RAM later in the life cycle of a new box.

The way Apple prices things, getting appropriate RAM often also places one into a Max chip. That is not really a bad thing, except for the price. Personally I have been adding pricey RAM to Macs for decades and always finding the expense worthwhile, so 2023 $400 for each +32 GB of RAM seems like a bargain to me.
 
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Trying to figure out the best bang-for-your-buck laptop here - I need RAM more than I need super processors, but as soon as you bump the 15" MBA up to 24GB of RAM, you're now only $100 or so away from the base 14" MBP with 18GB of RAM.

But then why get the base 14" with 18GB RAM... when for another $200 you could get the M3 Pro base which already has 18GB, and you get a MUCH better machine.

There are so many configs - anyone got a good guide for the most value you can get building a MBP config?
That is the product price ladder. It gives you a range of options but sometimes that results in needing to make too many choices. It's also designed to make it very easy to justify paying just a little more for that one extra feature. :)
 
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MBP rather than MBA for sure. MBPs have more ports, better displays, better speakers and better performance in every regard. MBAs are lighter and cheaper if you do not need any of those things I listed.

All M chips are hella powerful, but each level of chip base/Pro/Max adds huge additional CPU performance. IMO the fact that M3 MBPs are now out means M2 deals are available, and chip level (base vs. Pro vs. Max) is more relevant than M2 vs. M3.

No M3 will be best value today unless one needs the highest end performance or 128 GB RAM. I would avoid M1 as too old to buy new today unless some spectacular M1-Max deal with lots of RAM presented. I would avoid base level chip as relatively too low power. So find an M2 Pro or Max with at least double the RAM you think you need today, because apps/OS always take advantage of more RAM later in the life cycle of a new box.

The way Apple prices things, getting appropriate RAM often also places one into a Max chip. That is not really a bad thing, except for the price. Personally I have been adding pricey RAM to Macs for decades and always finding the expense worthwhile, so 2023 $400 for each +32 GB of RAM seems like a bargain to me.
Thanks, very useful!
 
Trying to figure out the best bang-for-your-buck laptop here - I need RAM more than I need super processors, but as soon as you bump the 15" MBA up to 24GB of RAM, you're now only $100 or so away from the base 14" MBP with 18GB of RAM.

But then why get the base 14" with 18GB RAM... when for another $200 you could get the M3 Pro base which already has 18GB, and you get a MUCH better machine.

There are so many configs - anyone got a good guide for the most value you can get building a MBP config?
If you need RAM and font care too much about 1 inch of screen size, bump to MBP 14.
 
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This article is missing any mention of display resolution. In choosing between a 15" Air and a 14" Pro, a key point is the fact that the 14" is higher resolution than the 15" so will in fact display more information on screen.
 
Agreed that with adequate RAM on board an MBP with a Max M (1,2, or 3) chip can be a machine for demanding professionals as you state. The M-Max chip is a beast, with each newer model stronger still. However your post implies that MBPs are only for demanding professionals, which is not correct.

MBPs at lower spec base and pro chips are fully appropriate for folks with lesser needs who want more ports than MBA, the better MBP display and the better MBP speakers as well as performance room to grow.
Yes, those non-pros that don't care for the superior portability of the Air, the not insignificant price difference, and want old-school future-proofing will go with the MBP, and there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I mean, anyone can justify anything (in either direction), but I think that Apple NAILED the spread between the Air and Pro Mac lines. This is why I like the name "Powerbook" way better than "MacBook Pro".

Yes, for power users, an MBP could be indispensable. But I question what "power" means nowadays. MaxTech has some good comparisons, and they take the "Pro" approach to many of their "vs" tests. How many non-pro users (AKA hobbyists, consumers, etc.) are taking their MBAs to the limit? What non-pro tasks are SO demanding that an MBA isn't enough? I'm not being combative, I'm genuinely curious.

I don't miss the "better" screen on my 12.9 iPad Pro when using my M2 Air. If I side-by-side them, yes, it is noticeable. But the MBA's screen is really, really good. And now with the 15", you get a BIGGER screen than the base MBP.

As far as ports, which non-pro use case is there that calls for more than 2 built-in USB-C ports, especially in the era of plentiful high-speed docks? MagSafe freed up the second port; I agree that one was not enough.

But anyway, no one is wrong. We all get what we want, especially us Apple fans.
 
The issue is that once you start adding RAM and storage to the M2 MacBook Aid (either size) the price starts to creep up towards the 18 GB M3 Pro MacBook Pro, which at $1,999 is a pricey, but luxury and long lasting laptop that will offer many consumers what they need and want for years
True. Apple's RAM and storage prices are still exorbitant. This was my conundrum when I bought my M2 MBA.

$2,000 for 24GB RAM, 1TB Storage or...

$2,200 for the same specs above but ~ a bit more weight & thickness, a bigger and better screen, a faster chip, more ports, and a fan.

For people shopping in that price range, I agree that currently the MBP is the better value.

However, for me the combination of weight, thickness, AND $200 pushed me towards the MBA. The MBA is sexier in my opinion, emotional as this is. ;)
 
The way I worked around that was by using DisplayLink - it can drive 2 more displays and a 3rd at a lower resolution - you just need USB video card adapters.
It all depends on your needs. The bandwidth of DisplayLink is so poor it's enough if you just need more real estate for some static display. If there's anything moving even for a little I find it way too frustrating to use. And I'm talking about mouse movement etc, not gaming. It's the same as trying to work with 30Hz displays. Some are ok with it, I'd rather not use them at all.
 
I agree. For me the screen size was the main reason to go for the 16" pro. Being in my 50's, it is hard, but I must admit the smaller screens just don't work. I'll just keep using it longer again, making the price a little better to cope with. My previous machine was a mid-2014 MBP 15" with full specs. Battery was dying (lasted only 30 minutes on a full charge) and all the number keys failed. Apart from those problems, the machine was doing just fine.
I have an early 2019 Air that I used for college, but my daily Mac is a late 2013 MBP 15", I7, 16RAM, 512SSD. It's getting tired. Battery has been going downhill for awhile now, now it won't even charge, the track pad only works to scroll (no clicking), and occasionally the stage light effects occurs. I thought about fixing all the issues, but is it really worth it? Ugh, decisions.
 
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I have an early 2019 Air that I used for college, but my daily Mac is a late 2013 MBP 15", I7, 16RAM, 512SSD. It's getting tired. Battery has been going downhill for awhile now, now it won't even charge, the track pad only works to scroll (no clicking), and occasionally the stage light effects occurs. I thought about fixing all the issues, but is it really worth it? Ugh, decisions.
As long as you don’t regularly run Windows software, the new AS MBP would be a massive upgrade for you and probably well worth the money.

BTW if your trackpad on a 2013 doesn’t click it probably means that your battery is swelling. I had that on a 2014 15” MBP. That is a dangerous situation and should be addressed right away. It’s expensive to replace those on that model. Your money would be better spent on a new MBP.
 
I am ready to replace my 2018 macbook pro intel chip / 16g of memory. Every time I had any slow downs with this unit, it was a memory crunch, so I want more than 16g on my new machine, and I suspect any M chip will be a huge improvement for me. But is 16g on an M chip different than 16g on intel? Will 16g on M chip be enough? The air offers 16g and 24g, and the m3 pro offers 18g and 36g. If 16g isn't enough, I don't think 18g will cut it, so I am looking at the 24g air or the 36g pro. I don't see enough benefit for me to go with the m3 pro 24g version- might as well get the cheaper air. Obviously the m3 pro has many advantages, but my big concern is getting the most memory for the cheapest price.

So is 16g on M chip enough, or do I go with the air with 24g, or go into debt getting the pro with 36g?
Thanks -
 
I am ready to replace my 2018 macbook pro intel chip / 16g of memory. Every time I had any slow downs with this unit, it was a memory crunch, so I want more than 16g on my new machine, and I suspect any M chip will be a huge improvement for me. But is 16g on an M chip different than 16g on intel? Will 16g on M chip be enough? The air offers 16g and 24g, and the m3 pro offers 18g and 36g. If 16g isn't enough, I don't think 18g will cut it, so I am looking at the 24g air or the 36g pro. I don't see enough benefit for me to go with the m3 pro 24g version- might as well get the cheaper air. Obviously the m3 pro has many advantages, but my big concern is getting the most memory for the cheapest price.

So is 16g on M chip enough, or do I go with the air with 24g, or go into debt getting the pro with 36g?
Thanks -
My 2016 16 GB RAM MBP RAM-limited-out in exactly the same way. I replaced it with an M2 MBP with maximum available (then) 96 GB RAM and that M2 MBP now typically takes advantage of ~40 GB to 50 GB of memory. For today 64 GB remains plenty, but I bought RAM for the life cycle of the box, not for today.

So question number one is how long a life cycle do you seek? Then realize RAM needs ("need" meaning what the OS/apps will optimize to if RAM is available) always increase, just like you observed in your 2018 MBP and I observed in my 2016 MBP. IMO Apple telegraphs that expected need increase as they dramatically increased max laptop RAM available over the last few years, now at 128 GB with the M3 generation.

The superb Mac OS will make any RAM amount work, but only more RAM will allow the hardware to optimize. I recommend 64 GB minimum (which also means a Max chip I believe), and personally will always buy the max available because every laptop Mac has evolved during a reasonable life cycle to take advantage of the max available RAM when new.

It does not makes sense to me to buy expensive computing hardware and then intentionally limiting the ability of that expensive computing hardware to compute by installing less than optimum RAM.

An MBA is a lesser box than a MBP in every way. But it is lighter and cheaper. If you can tolerate the MBA shortcomings (display, speakers, memory bandwidth, limited display support, no WiFi 6E, etc.) then a shorter life cycle MBA is a choice, but always with the max RAM available in an MBA.
 
I am ready to replace my 2018 macbook pro intel chip / 16g of memory. Every time I had any slow downs with this unit, it was a memory crunch, so I want more than 16g on my new machine, and I suspect any M chip will be a huge improvement for me. But is 16g on an M chip different than 16g on intel? Will 16g on M chip be enough? The air offers 16g and 24g, and the m3 pro offers 18g and 36g. If 16g isn't enough, I don't think 18g will cut it, so I am looking at the 24g air or the 36g pro. I don't see enough benefit for me to go with the m3 pro 24g version- might as well get the cheaper air. Obviously the m3 pro has many advantages, but my big concern is getting the most memory for the cheapest price.

So is 16g on M chip enough, or do I go with the air with 24g, or go into debt getting the pro with 36g?
Thanks -
The best you can do is to monitor closely how the memory pressure behaves when you stress your 2018 now. I do not know how you came to the conclusion of a "memory crunch" being the cause of slow downs, but with detailed monitoring you should be able to get a clear picture of exactly how much data is being requested and dumped into cache/swap to have caused lags.

While in general 24GB is not meant to be a popular choice for obvious reason: it is a resource mismatch. It is rare for a workflow to be demanding memory but is otherwise fine getting with the inferior CPU / GPU / memory bandwidth and all else that is on the Air, vs the 14" 16" Pro. But like you said, going for a 36GB Pro may just be overkill if not overbudget, notwithstanding the larger form factor so it is bulk that you wouldn't need to get with a 13" Air.

Now there are some safer alternatives I believe; if you are fine with 14" form factor, but is budget conscious, a M1 Pro or M2 Pro 14" with 32GB may be the best fit. Places like B&H have 32/64GB M1 gen heavily discounted. And the M2 Pro refurb is priced pretty sweetly also.
 
While in general 24GB is not meant to be a popular choice for obvious reason: it is a resource mismatch.
Are you sure the RAM mismatch issues still apply when it comes to unified memory? I doubt it. All the high end stock configurations and most BTO options also appear “mismatched” in that case 18, 36, 48 and 96GB. None of those are powers of 2. I take it that’s what you are referring to.
 
Are you sure the RAM mismatch issues still apply when it comes to unified memory? I doubt it. All the high end stock configurations and most BTO options also appear “mismatched” in that case 18, 36, 48 and 96GB. None of those are powers of 2. I take it that’s what you are referring to.
Sorry I was perhaps not being clear; the text following what you quoted already elaborated what that meant but here I try to do it clearer:

people who have memory needs as high as 24GB almost surely would like their CPU/GPU etc to be just as good. Therefore going for 24GB on "just an Air" remains to be an obscure BTO option that we rarely see, and in my observation those decisions are usually done with portability as a priority. The burden is with the OP to "prove" (to himself) that the 16GB is indeed the one and only limiting factor in his current 2018, in order for a 24GB Air purchase to make sense. And even with that, you get more hardware in the 14" MBP too, unlikely all of those extras are of no value to OP.
 
Sorry I was perhaps not being clear; the text following what you quoted already elaborated what that meant but here I try to do it clearer:

people who have memory needs as high as 24GB almost surely would like their CPU/GPU etc to be just as good. Therefore going for 24GB on "just an Air" remains to be an obscure BTO option that we rarely see, and in my observation those decisions are usually done with portability as a priority. The burden is with the OP to "prove" (to himself) that the 16GB is indeed the one and only limiting factor in his current 2018, in order for a 24GB Air purchase to make sense. And even with that, you get more hardware in the 14" MBP too, unlikely all of those extras are of no value to OP.
Oh, you were talking about resource mismatch between RAM and CPU. I completely misunderstood 😆
 
Thanks for the replies. My best examination of my current system indicates I have memory intensive processing, not cpu intensive. My question was how 16g of memory on M chips compares with 16g on intel chips of my 2018 mbp. The suspect line from apple is "8GB on an M3 MacBook Pro is probably analogous to 16GB on other systems. We just happen to be able to use it much more efficiently.” So I assume this would apply to the older mbp intel chips.
 
Thanks for the replies. My best examination of my current system indicates I have memory intensive processing, not cpu intensive. My question was how 16g of memory on M chips compares with 16g on intel chips of my 2018 mbp. The suspect line from apple is "8GB on an M3 MacBook Pro is probably analogous to 16GB on other systems. We just happen to be able to use it much more efficiently.” So I assume this would apply to the older mbp intel chips.
You can almost disregard that statement, and don't think Apple Silicon would use memory any more efficiently than say the initial few GBs when we talk about ball pack of 16-64GB actual work usage. That's why it is important to ask exactly how much data is cached if one were to determine that difference. If indeed a certain workflow is choked on 16GB Intel, it is unlikely it won't on 16GB AS. But for 8GB vs 8GB that scenario is more likely due to the release of the few GBs initially occupied iGPU VRAM on an Intel Mac with (iGPU).

In your case I'd say, better safe than sorry. I advise going for any 14" 32/36GB so as to rid of the potential bottleneck, and to also get the other benefits that comes along with the 14" chassis / Pro chip. It is possible to find out your exact needs and optimize to the point of determining just a 24GB Air may be enough, but you don't look like you are positioned to do so.
 
Yes, it's "invaluable" as in "it has no value". If you work with the laptop's speakers, you are very likely no audio professional. Sure, you can use them to check out how your mix sounds on laptop-speakers, but as probably more people got an air, it's speakers are more useful as a reference. The Air got a headphone jack as well - which is far more useful on the go. I know a few who got the M1 air because it is already fast enough and, more importantly - it has no fan, which is far more valuable to them than tiny laptop speakers.
You make no sense. "No fan" is not a value add "no fan, which is far more valuable..." Fans do not kick in unless demanded by heavy workflow; said heavy workflow would throttle w/o fans. Those folks who would be at "M1 air because it is already fast enough" simply would not cause fan operation in a MBP.

It is OK to save money by buying an MBA instead of MBP, but do not pretend the MBA is better in any way except its lighter weight.
 
I just want to throw this out there...

I have a 2020 M1 MBP, 16 GB RAM. I noticed I have some Apple Arcade games downloaded that I don't care about so I wanted to delete them. But before doing that, I played them a little. A couple seemed to be pretty graphic intensive.

My MBP didn't get warm, fans never came on, there was no stutter, everything looked good. I think they may spin up when playing Tropico but not full force.

All that to say, unless you really need high performance, the Air would be an amazing machine. I kind of wish I had bought that to save a couple of bucks but I was tempted by the Touch Bar.

But gosh, that screen on the Pro is amazing. I couldn't justify the cost of the 14" vs the 13".
 
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