Macbook Pro 16 inch freeze issue (automatic graphics switching)

[TL24]

Hey, guys. Are you still experiences the stutter issues? I got my logic board replaced, but the problem persists. I'm on 10.15.7, I've read that some got rid of the problem with 10.15.6, but that's not the case for me.

It's all in how MacOS is utilizing the iGPU, it just seems like it's running an extremely low speed until it's needed and then ramps up. If you use the dGPU only you'll notice this problem is almost non-existent but you lose battery life running off of the dGPU only. Not a problem if you're mainly plugged in 90% or more most of the time.

 

[jorgepasco1]

It's all in how MacOS is utilizing the iGPU, it just seems like it's running an extremely low speed until it's needed and then ramps up. If you use the dGPU only you'll notice this problem is almost non-existent but you lose battery life running off of the dGPU only. Not a problem if you're mainly plugged in 90% or more most of the time.

Yeahh, what’s worse is than when I’m on dGPU I have this other problem https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/weird-cursor-behavior.2230749/post-28798105. It’s really frustrating. I just wanted to know that if some people got the issue fixed with updates, because it wasn’t clear from what I read to some replies. Does anyone know if there’s a way we can raise these issues to Apple? Because I really haven’t seen them addressed, even when quite a few of people are having them, but apparently is just not enough people to represent a concern for Apple. What a bummer.

 

[TL24]

Yeahh, what’s worse is than when I’m on dGPU I have this other problem https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/weird-cursor-behavior.2230749/post-28798105. It’s really frustrating. I just wanted to know that if some people got the issue fixed with updates, because it wasn’t clear from what I read to some replies. Does anyone know if there’s a way we can raise these issues to Apple? Because I really haven’t seen them addressed, even when quite a few of people are having them, but apparently is just not enough people to represent a concern for Apple. What a bummer.

Yeah it's pretty bad considering how much you're paying for a MBP 16 but it's still a beast of a laptop. Nothing comes close to its build quality and overall experience in my opinion which is why I've decided to just order a fully spec'd out MBP 16 now and not wait for the Apple Silicon ones. It'll take 2-3 years at least to fully mature in my opinion. By then I'll be ready to upgrade again.

 

[jorgepasco1]

Yeah it's pretty bad considering how much you're paying for a MBP 16 but it's still a beast of a laptop. Nothing comes close to its build quality and overall experience in my opinion which is why I've decided to just order a fully spec'd out MBP 16 now and not wait for the Apple Silicon ones. It'll take 2-3 years at least to fully mature in my opinion. By then I'll be ready to upgrade again.

I really want to say that, but man, not even a mediocre windows laptop has these kind of issues, I literally cannot work without having to see my cursor move like crazy or have stutters when switching tabs. I really wish they can address this issues, but considering that they will probably be focusing on the new Silicon, I really have low expectations, so sad

 

[ght56]

I really want to say that, but man, not even a mediocre windows laptop has these kind of issues, I literally cannot work without having to see my cursor move like crazy or have stutters when switching tabs. I really wish they can address this issues, but considering that they will probably be focusing on the new Silicon, I really have low expectations, so sad

I believe this behavior is an intentional design that aims to prolong battery life. I've arrived at what I think is a workaround for this behavior when experienced on the iGPU, but I would like others to confirm first before posting the workaround as my fix used two apps that are not free and I do not want to post it if it does not fix it.

Could you do a test for me? First make sure you are on the iGPU. Then, if you open a 720p or 1080p Youtube video and play it, and you leave a portion of it so that it is ALWAYS partly visible on the screen and playing (i.e., there is always a moving image on the screen), does this microstutter stop or vastly decrease?

Like this:


(You will notice in iStat Menus that the iGPU processor subsequently shows itself as NOT idle (i.e., it is something other than 0%) but it also isn't pegged to the max either.

 

[jorgepasco1]

I believe this behavior is an intentional design that aims to prolong battery life. I've arrived at what I think is a workaround for this behavior when experienced on the iGPU, but I would like others to confirm first before posting the workaround as my fix used two apps that are not free and I do not want to post it if it does not fix it.

Could you do a test for me? First make sure you are on the iGPU. Then, if you open a 720p or 1080p Youtube video and play it, and you leave a portion of it so that it is ALWAYS partly visible on the screen and playing (i.e., there is always a moving image on the screen), does this microstutter stop or vastly decrease?

Like this:
View attachment 961060

(You will notice in iStat Menus that the iGPU processor subsequently shows itself as NOT idle (i.e., it is something other than 0%) but it also isn't pegged to the max either.

You mean switching Graphic Cards behavior? Yes! It's aimed to increase battery life, but I don't think the computer should freeze for a second or more when switching graphics, it's just terrible UX. I've decided I'm gonna be using dGPU permanently. Luckily I found a "fix" for this issue https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/weird-cursor-behavior.2230749/post-28798105 that occurs when running on dGPU so I can work with no problems. I will probably post what I did, not sure how many people have that same problem.

 

[TL24]

You mean switching Graphic Cards behavior? Yes! It's aimed to increase battery life, but I don't think the computer should freeze for a second or more when switching graphics, it's just terrible UX. I've decided I'm gonna be using dGPU permanently. Luckily I found a "fix" for this issue https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/weird-cursor-behavior.2230749/post-28798105 that occurs when running on dGPU so I can work with no problems. I will probably post what I did, not sure how many people have that same problem.

Awesome, post it and lets see.

I will be getting my MBP 16 on Friday even though I chose Expedited Shipping on Monday, not sure how that works smh.

 

[jorgepasco1]

Awesome, post it and lets see.

I will be getting my MBP 16 on Friday even though I chose Expedited Shipping on Monday, not sure how that works smh.

I already posted it ?https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/weird-cursor-behavior.2230749/?post=28798105#post-28798105

 

[Chris.J]

One thing that seems to have worked for me for the original problem (freeze issue), is on a fresh reboot, if you open system preferences and switch OFF automatic graphics switching, then switch it back on again.

After doing this, I rarely see the freezes enough for it to bug me - which by the way mostly appear in Safari.

This whole issue has been driving me nuts, ever since upgrading from a 2015 rMBP. Apple have offered to replace the logic board, but my guess is that this is a problem with the drivers / software.

 

[jpy1980]

bumping this thread. anyone know if Big Sur took care of this issue?

 

[Chris.J]

Sadly not. I still get the occasional freeze and my trick above doesn't seem to work now.

 

[Tarek S. Abdelhamed]

Still an issue as of 22 Nov. It's literally crazy how a premium machine like this has issues like popping and micro stutters !

 

[jpy1980]

What sucks is that with Big Sur, they gave us the option to tick enable graphics switching for battery and plugged in profiles, but if you untick it for plugged in, it unticks for battery. It would be nice to have it unticked for when plugged in and ticked for battery only. Why do they make it so complicated?

 

[mouthster]

This issue has been the bane of my existence with this 16" for a year now. However, thanks to another poster here I think there might be a workaround.

Software I'm running that may or may not be relevant:
- Big Sur
- gSwitch
- Turbo Boost Switcher Pro
- iStats

I like to run Turbo Boost Switcher Pro and gSwitch (to force Integrated Graphics) to keep heat and fan noise to a minimum. Of course, staying on integrated graphics means stutter. Forcing discrete graphics removes stutter but burns my legs. Sucks either way.

In another forum post someone mentioned that having another user logged into Mac OS can eliminate the stutter when on integrated graphics. I tried this and to my surprise, everything was buttery smooth. I had to double-check to make sure I wasn't on discrete graphics. When I looked at iStats, my Radeon High Side was at a steady 2 watts. Then I realized by default iStats was also running on the new user account. I switched to my dummy account and paused iStats, switched back to my main user account and now the Radeon High Side was ~0.1 Watts and the integrated graphics and the random stutters were back.

So my current solution:
Create a dummy user in Mac OS
Log in dummy user account - leave iStats running (it doesn't take much CPU)
Lock Screen (Control-Command Q)
Log in my main account (Observe Radeon High Side @ 2 Watts and everything is smooth)

I hope someone else here can I try it, to see if this is reproducible and not just some fluke on my machine. Also I don't quite understand what it means that the Radeon is pulling only 2 Watts and everything is smooth. Is the system really using the Radeon in some low power-mode even though it reports I am on integrated? I don't know.

The added 2 watt power draw probably contributes to some battery drainage, but nothing like when running on discrete graphics full tilt. The laptop feels about as warm as it did before just running on integrated graphics - and the stutter-free UI is worth it. I think this workaround will make the wait for the Apple Silicon 16" easier.

 

[ght56]

This issue has been the bane of my existence with this 16" for a year now. However, thanks to another poster here I think there might be a workaround.

Software I'm running that may or may not be relevant:
- Big Sur
- gSwitch
- Turbo Boost Switcher Pro
- iStats

I like to run Turbo Boost Switcher Pro and gSwitch (to force Integrated Graphics) to keep heat and fan noise to a minimum. Of course, staying on integrated graphics means stutter. Forcing discrete graphics removes stutter but burns my legs. Sucks either way.

In another forum post someone mentioned that having another user logged into Mac OS can eliminate the stutter when on integrated graphics. I tried this and to my surprise, everything was buttery smooth. I had to double-check to make sure I wasn't on discrete graphics. When I looked at iStats, my Radeon High Side was at a steady 2 watts. Then I realized by default iStats was also running on the new user account. I switched to my dummy account and paused iStats, switched back to my main user account and now the Radeon High Side was ~0.1 Watts and the integrated graphics and the random stutters were back.

So my current solution:
Create a dummy user in Mac OS
Log in dummy user account - leave iStats running (it doesn't take much CPU)
Lock Screen (Control-Command Q)
Log in my main account (Observe Radeon High Side @ 2 Watts and everything is smooth)

I hope someone else here can I try it, to see if this is reproducible and not just some fluke on my machine. Also I don't quite understand what it means that the Radeon is pulling only 2 Watts and everything is smooth. Is the system really using the Radeon in some low power-mode even though it reports I am on integrated? I don't know.

The added 2 watt power draw probably contributes to some battery drainage, but nothing like when running on discrete graphics full tilt. The laptop feels about as warm as it did before just running on integrated graphics - and the stutter-free UI is worth it. I think this workaround will make the wait for the Apple Silicon 16" easier.

Ill be damned. I completely missed the 2 watt Radeon High Side draw when using this workaround. THAT BOGGLES MY MIND! It's running on the integrated GPU, and yet it is drawing 2 watts to the dedicated GPU, and the stutter is gone.

What exactly is happening here?

I finished work at 10 and unplugged from my externals (this is a 5600M model). I only locked my work account and then got on my personal account.

 

[mouthster]

Yeah, I’m trying to wrap my head around it. Some thoughts I had:

1. Is the Radeon actually driving the graphics (in a lower-power 2 watt state) and the system is incorrectly reporting it’s on integrated graphics?
   • This would explain why the stutter is eliminated. But iStat is still showing movement for the Intel Gpu Frequency. Anywhere from 350MHz all the way down to 0MHz in periods of inactivity.
2. Is iStat incorrectly reporting the Radeon power draw (due to running on two accounts)?
   • Doubtful, I think the system is running the daemon so the output should be shared across users. Also, when I paused iStat in the dummy user account and went back to my main account, the Radeon draw went back down to 0.1 and the stutter returned. So it seems having some kind of “activity” in the locked account triggers this 2 watt Radeon draw.
3. Are the iGPU and dGPU working together?
   • I suppose this could be possible??

Also, pmset -g powerstate when the Radeon power draw is 2W or 0.1W, the only differences are:

2 Watt Draw (stutter free)

Driver ID	Current State	Max State	Current State Description
AppleGFXHDAEGController	2	2	USEABLE
AppleGFXHDADriver	0	1	None

0.1 Watt Draw (stutter city)

Driver ID	Current State	Max State	Current State Description
AppleGFXHDAEGController	0	0	None
AppleGFXHDADriver	0	0	None

If this is the key (could be way off on this) I would prefer to manually invoke this power state instead of having to use the 2 user account workaround.

 

[Chris.J]

This worked for me. Thank-you for posting!

It's definitely using the iGPU and not the descrete graphics. The way I know this is because the cursor glitch that you get (when hovering over a link) that's associated with the dGPU is not present when in this 2.0W state.

Let's hope Apple fix this in some sort of update, but I wouldn't hold my breath. For now, this is a great work around that requires minimal effort.

 

[Tarek S. Abdelhamed]

This issue has been the bane of my existence with this 16" for a year now. However, thanks to another poster here I think there might be a workaround.

Software I'm running that may or may not be relevant:
- Big Sur
- gSwitch
- Turbo Boost Switcher Pro
- iStats

I like to run Turbo Boost Switcher Pro and gSwitch (to force Integrated Graphics) to keep heat and fan noise to a minimum. Of course, staying on integrated graphics means stutter. Forcing discrete graphics removes stutter but burns my legs. Sucks either way.

In another forum post someone mentioned that having another user logged into Mac OS can eliminate the stutter when on integrated graphics. I tried this and to my surprise, everything was buttery smooth. I had to double-check to make sure I wasn't on discrete graphics. When I looked at iStats, my Radeon High Side was at a steady 2 watts. Then I realized by default iStats was also running on the new user account. I switched to my dummy account and paused iStats, switched back to my main user account and now the Radeon High Side was ~0.1 Watts and the integrated graphics and the random stutters were back.

So my current solution:
Create a dummy user in Mac OS
Log in dummy user account - leave iStats running (it doesn't take much CPU)
Lock Screen (Control-Command Q)
Log in my main account (Observe Radeon High Side @ 2 Watts and everything is smooth)

I hope someone else here can I try it, to see if this is reproducible and not just some fluke on my machine. Also I don't quite understand what it means that the Radeon is pulling only 2 Watts and everything is smooth. Is the system really using the Radeon in some low power-mode even though it reports I am on integrated? I don't know.

The added 2 watt power draw probably contributes to some battery drainage, but nothing like when running on discrete graphics full tilt. The laptop feels about as warm as it did before just running on integrated graphics - and the stutter-free UI is worth it. I think this workaround will make the wait for the Apple Silicon 16" easier.

Wow ! This actually works !! This + cracking noise are the most annoying issues in the 16 inch, once Sillicon 16" is released I'm definitely making the switch.

 

[GreatOverlordGollum]

Bumping this thread; I too have been experiencing this issue. I've had my display replaced, and the operating system reloaded (fresh) about four times now. My laptop's logs are now with the engineering team, hopefully they can come to a conclusion about this.

This issue has been the bane of my existence with this 16" for a year now. However, thanks to another poster here I think there might be a workaround.

Software I'm running that may or may not be relevant:
- Big Sur
- gSwitch
- Turbo Boost Switcher Pro
- iStats

I like to run Turbo Boost Switcher Pro and gSwitch (to force Integrated Graphics) to keep heat and fan noise to a minimum. Of course, staying on integrated graphics means stutter. Forcing discrete graphics removes stutter but burns my legs. Sucks either way.

In another forum post someone mentioned that having another user logged into Mac OS can eliminate the stutter when on integrated graphics. I tried this and to my surprise, everything was buttery smooth. I had to double-check to make sure I wasn't on discrete graphics. When I looked at iStats, my Radeon High Side was at a steady 2 watts. Then I realized by default iStats was also running on the new user account. I switched to my dummy account and paused iStats, switched back to my main user account and now the Radeon High Side was ~0.1 Watts and the integrated graphics and the random stutters were back.

So my current solution:
Create a dummy user in Mac OS
Log in dummy user account - leave iStats running (it doesn't take much CPU)
Lock Screen (Control-Command Q)
Log in my main account (Observe Radeon High Side @ 2 Watts and everything is smooth)

I hope someone else here can I try it, to see if this is reproducible and not just some fluke on my machine. Also I don't quite understand what it means that the Radeon is pulling only 2 Watts and everything is smooth. Is the system really using the Radeon in some low power-mode even though it reports I am on integrated? I don't know.

The added 2 watt power draw probably contributes to some battery drainage, but nothing like when running on discrete graphics full tilt. The laptop feels about as warm as it did before just running on integrated graphics - and the stutter-free UI is worth it. I think this workaround will make the wait for the Apple Silicon 16" easier.

Does anyone know of a workaround that does not require iStats?

 

[GreatOverlordGollum]

Bumping this thread; I too have been experiencing this issue. I've had my display replaced, and the operating system reloaded (fresh) about four times now. My laptop's logs are now with the engineering team, hopefully they can come to a conclusion about this.

Does anyone know of a workaround that does not require iStats?

Just spoke to the Senior Advisor; the engineering team has advised it should be patched in a future software update!

 

[Chris.J]

Just FYI, Apple say this about everything so that you go away and stop pestering.

 

[MrGunny94]

Bumping this thread; I too have been experiencing this issue. I've had my display replaced, and the operating system reloaded (fresh) about four times now. My laptop's logs are now with the engineering team, hopefully they can come to a conclusion about this.

Does anyone know of a workaround that does not require iStats?

Any update on this did you guys found a way to fix this? The iGPU stuttering is driving me insane for a year and a half now.

 

[GreatOverlordGollum]

Any update on this did you guys found a way to fix this? The iGPU stuttering is driving me insane for a year and a half now.

No, unfortunately not... Hopefully a software upgrade fixes it but they didnt provide a timeframe...

 

[MrGunny94]

No, unfortunately not... Hopefully a software upgrade fixes it but they didnt provide a timeframe...

At this point I'm just inclined to get a 14" M1 based Mac.. And leave this one always plugged with the monitors at home. It's just insane the amount of stuttering you get if you multi tasking and you don't have the Dgpu on

 

[gabsens]

I immediately returned the first A2141 macbook I purchased in December 2019 because of this nagging issue. Turned out the second A2141 macbook I ordered had the same problem.

Anyway, this was eventually fixed by Apple, but the A2141 is still plagued by GPU overheating (see the long thread on macrumors).