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SnoFlo

macrumors regular
Feb 5, 2010
221
194
Hey Mac friends, I started experiencing this same issue on websites and on apps that are online-only since the pandemic (and lockdown) began. As I have an HP ZBook and not a MacBook Pro I think this is somehow related to the web and/or newer CPUs / graphics drivers. If I open notepad or pdf documents etc there is no lag while typing or scrolling. Kinda weird.

I don't know if I am experiencing the same problems as you are but just wanted to toss this out in case ppl were inclined to toss out perfectly fine laptops.
 

yindrameansu

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2020
8
0
Thanks all for the answers.
It really feels absurd that we have a top-end machine and experience issues while browsing the internet. I honestly spent the price tag because I love to work flawlessly and fast. This really makes me think about buying a second hand machine and save for Bitcoin. ?
 

Billiejoe87

macrumors member
Apr 23, 2020
86
107
Add me to the list of people experiencing this issue. Random lag in safari with certain websites. It's odd as I came from a 2020 Macbook Pro 13 Inch which I returned for the larger display and that did not have this issue.

It's only with some websites, but it's really annoying.
 

aronsajan

macrumors newbie
Jun 22, 2020
7
1
As inferred here: https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookpro/comments/bdouy8 . Seems that this is an issue with the AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext where igpu is not powered up aggressively. Seems this can be resolved by configuring the BoostPState value in the info.plist file of AppleGraphicsPowerManagement.kext. Haven’t tried this yet, so cannot confirm.
 

Mitch116

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2020
2
0
Similar experience with a 2 week old machine
About every 30-45 seconds while watching YouTube videos there is a 1 second skip and even while scrolling this thread it skips every minute or so
I’ve turned off automatic graphics switching which seems to have helped but how will this really effect battery life
Anyone run a test yet on battery life with switching vs running without switching??
When will this be fixed
Going to report the bug on Apple feedback assistant
 
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robvas

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2009
3,240
630
USA
For anybody experiencing scrolling lag in applications when connected to an external display. Follow the fix in the video of this post, it's completely solved the issue for me and speeds are back to what they used to be with my 2017 pro.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28537914
Wouldn’t it Be easier to just say to force your graphics card to discrete only, instead of forcing people to watch through a video?

Even better, point out the fact that php storm is a slow, Java-based program that lags on every platform and has for years, and has tons of search results and discussions on their own support forum where hundreds of people complain about the same thing?
 

Mitch116

macrumors newbie
Aug 27, 2020
2
0
So I just purchased the top line 16 inch and experiencing some lagging on the videos im watching on Youtube, etc. It'll have a "one" second skip/stutter. This also happens when I'm typing as well.

I transferred all my data from my old Macbook Pro to this one (16 inch) which didn't have any issues.

Anyone experiencing this? If so, how did you fix it.

Thanks.
how are you doing some 9 months later???
 

ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
839
815
I am on 10.15.6 and this is very minor but still noticeable on my 16 enough to where I usually am using the dGPU. It happens with both mouse movements and typing, as well as UI animations (although to a lesser extent.) It is a very, very brief delay, but still pretty annoying. My assumption is it was worse with earlier versions of macOS based on what I've read, but I would have hoped this would have been eliminated a year later.

2.3GHz/32GB/5550 8GB



Edit - I do not think this is a flaw, but a feature, which is why it hasn't been 'fixed' (caveat am no computer guru). I think what I've read about the base clock frequency of the iGPU being low enough to induce UI lag when more processing is requested but a delay occurs makes sense, and I think this is done intentionally for battery life purposes (look at the battery life on laptops with very high resolution displays...most are between pretty bad to abysmal, even though many have large batteries as well). Disabling font smoothing reduces this issue (does not eliminate it)...to my understanding, doing this places more load on the GPU. Watching a video eliminates it temporarily...again placing more load on the GPU where we see increased iGPU activity. However, what I find eliminates it outright is actively being logged into more than one user account and simply locking one account while using the other. This makes it go away outright, or at least to a level I cannot detect. It also shows the iGPU as being more active, CPU temperatures are slightly elevated, and battery life is reduced. In other words, this seems to be increasing load on the iGPU substantially to a point where the micro stutter is gone, presumably preventing it from settling around that 350 MHz base frequency which becomes problematic when sitting at that base frequency and more graphics resources are rapidly requested (e.g., a rapid cursor movement, a UI animation such as Launchpad animation, or rapidly appearing text). Of course that low base frequency is helping to enable longer battery life...

I am guessing at some point a determination was made that this was the optimal amount of UI lag relative to getting battery performance of a desired level (i.e., more users would notice poor battery life than they would UI responsiveness if they skewed in the direction of better UI responsiveness on the iGPU.) All of the actions that reduce or eliminate the UI lag, even those that avoid reverting to the dGPU, also result in a hit to battery. Presumably the "fix" to this would be more user control over the iGPU settings, or perhaps even a mid-setting providing a modest amount of iGPU power efficiency between the most power efficient iGPU setting and the more power hungry dGPU, which is probably something Apple does not want to do. Nonetheless, it does leave me questioning why such a mid-iGPU setting would not at least exist for when on the iGPU and AC power, where energy efficiency isn't as important?

Unfortunately, my takeaway is that, in sum, you cant fix this issue with a big CPU, big screen, while maintaining a very high resolution and not seeing substantial reductions in efficiency. This is an intentional design decision.
 
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ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
839
815
Is there a Terminal command to automatically force the system to use the dGPU upon login?

Right now, when I log in each time, the system automatically reverts to GPU switching and I have to manually select the dGPU. As I am often switching between two user accounts, this is a bit annoying and I would like the dGPU to be the default upon login. Is there any way I could do this?

Alternatively, if not, has anyone investigated writing a program that would run in the background and effectively push the iGPU? More or less keep the iGPU always operating at a certain level so it does not settle back into the stutter zone?

Alternatively-alternatively, is there a way to add a button to the Touchbar to toggle between iGPU and dGPU? Could Better Touch Tool do this?
 
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TL24

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2011
1,456
1,359
I also have this issue but I’ve been running on the dGPU since I’ve had my base MBP 16 with the 5500m 4GB GPU.

I’m cancelling my fully spec’d MBP 16 that hasn’t shipped yet. It’s ridiculous that a MBP 16 with a $4000+ price tag that I would have paid for (cancelling the order) cannot even remain smooth when using the iGPU for basic things like scrolling, watching YouTube and resizing windows. This is unacceptable and I was expecting so much more from Apple. Guess it’s back to waiting for the ARM based MBP next year!!
 

matram

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2011
781
416
Sweden
Right now, when I log in each time, the system automatically reverts to GPU switching and I have to manually select the dGPU. As I am often switching between two user accounts, this is a bit annoying and I would like the dGPU to be the default upon login. Is there any way I could do this?

You can disable ”Automatic Graphics Switching” in Settings > Energy Saver. That should keep the system on dGPU at the cost of a considerably shorter battery life.
 

ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
839
815
You can disable ”Automatic Graphics Switching” in Settings > Energy Saver. That should keep the system on dGPU at the cost of a considerably shorter battery life.

The resets to reenable switching each time the system is started or each time user accounts are switched. As I am switching user accounts often, it's become a real pain.
 

ght56

macrumors 6502a
Aug 31, 2020
839
815
I also have this issue but I’ve been running on the dGPU since I’ve had my base MBP 16 with the 5500m 4GB GPU.

I’m cancelling my fully spec’d MBP 16 that hasn’t shipped yet. It’s ridiculous that a MBP 16 with a $4000+ price tag that I would have paid for (cancelling the order) cannot even remain smooth when using the iGPU for basic things like scrolling, watching YouTube and resizing windows. This is unacceptable and I was expecting so much more from Apple. Guess it’s back to waiting for the ARM based MBP next year!!

I am almost certain at this point that the micro-stuttering is an intentional design decision where they decided that most users would not notice it and doing so would help permit such long runtimes compared to other laptops with this processor (e.g., the X1 Extreme). For us who do notice it though, it is incredibly annoying and we really, really, really need a more aggressive iGPU power setting.

That said, why there is not already an intermediate setting that boosts the iGPU when on AC power to eliminate this is really beyond my comprehension.
 
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matram

macrumors 6502a
Sep 18, 2011
781
416
Sweden
The resets to reenable switching each time the system is started or each time user accounts are switched. As I am switching user accounts often, it's become a real pain.

Sorry was not aware of that limitation. I used to use GFXCardStatus that provided a shortcut own the menubar to switch GPU. But I do not believe that works any longer.

You also have this command you can use in terminal: pmset -a gpuswitch 1

I guess you could put that in a script to runt at login.
 

dingobiatch

macrumors regular
Jan 29, 2009
224
48
For anybody experiencing scrolling lag in applications when connected to an external display. Follow the fix in the video of this post, it's completely solved the issue for me and speeds are back to what they used to be with my 2017 pro.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28537914

Wait isn’t this just forcing the computer not to use the dedicated GPU?? This is so frustrating.. why can’t my $4k laptop use its damn graphics card?! I’m having stutters and lag all over the place. Is the newer 5600M 2020 laptop doing this??
 

TL24

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2011
1,456
1,359
Wait isn’t this just forcing the computer not to use the dedicated GPU?? This is so frustrating.. why can’t my $4k laptop use its damn graphics card?! I’m having stutters and lag all over the place. Is the newer 5600M 2020 laptop doing this??

I'm 100% sure it does, why? Because it still uses the same i9 CPU's with that horrible iGPU which is the culprit here. There's a reason why the new MBP 13 with the 10th gen i5/i7 don't have this issue, it's because they have a better iGPU.

You can of course just make sure that you're always running off of the dGPU but again that'll just drain your battery even faster so kiss that goodbye. As I've said, this is totally unacceptable from Apple to expect us to keep a premium laptop that can't even do the most basic things.
 

maxwell35

macrumors newbie
Oct 6, 2020
3
1
I'm 100% sure it does, why? Because it still uses the same i9 CPU's with that horrible iGPU which is the culprit here. There's a reason why the new MBP 13 with the 10th gen i5/i7 don't have this issue, it's because they have a better iGPU.

You can of course just make sure that you're always running off of the dGPU but again that'll just drain your battery even faster so kiss that goodbye. As I've said, this is totally unacceptable from Apple to expect us to keep a premium laptop that can't even do the most basic things.
The iGPU (UHD Graphics 630) isn't horrible at all. It runs perfectly fine on Windows gaming laptops with 4K display. It can also run a 4K 60fps Youtube video with no stuttering. This is 100% Apple's fault for not optimizing MacOS.
 
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TL24

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2011
1,456
1,359
The iGPU (UHD Graphics 630) isn't horrible at all. It runs perfectly fine on Windows gaming laptops with 4K display. It can also run a 4K 60fps Youtube video with no stuttering. This is 100% Apple's fault for not optimizing MacOS.

Yeah I recently had the Gigabyte Aero 15S XB (4k OLED) which has a 10th gen i7-10875 which also uses the UHD 630 iGPU and it had zero issues pushing that beautiful OLED display at its native 4K resolution. Everything was buttery smooth regardless of what I threw at it and it was just amazing.

I however do not like Windows anymore so I returned it and got my MBP 16 spec'd out with the 5600m GPU, it's a beast but the overall polish of macOS Catalina leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to how the iGPU performs.
 

mouthster

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2005
298
267
So I tried (on Catalina)

sudo pmset -b gpuswitch 0

This forces the system to use only the iGPU when on battery and never switch. Interesting thing is I'm not noticing anymore stutters. My theory is the logic to switch GPU's is trigger happy and switches from iGPU to dGPU and back again causing a stutter.
 

TL24

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2011
1,456
1,359
Is this issue solved on Big Sur?

The stuttering happens a lot less on Big Sur, I decided to make the jump to try it to see for myself and it's a bit better. I hope everything else gets polished by the time it's finally released though.
 

TL24

macrumors 65816
Oct 20, 2011
1,456
1,359
So I tried (on Catalina)

sudo pmset -b gpuswitch 0

This forces the system to use only the iGPU when on battery and never switch. Interesting thing is I'm not noticing anymore stutters. My theory is the logic to switch GPU's is trigger happy and switches from iGPU to dGPU and back again causing a stutter.

That really isn't the case. I use gfxCardStatus so I see when the GPU's switch over real time and 99% of the time the stuttering happens while on the iGPU. It's really just the OS causing the issue because the Intel UHD 630 iGPU is more than capable of driving the highest scaled resolution that the MBP 16 can select. Even with fonts smoothing and all of the other bells and whistles (AA) it shouldn't be this bad. As I've already mentioned it's how Apple has decided to throttle down the iGPU to conserve battery, if you use iStats you'll notice that the iGPU is 90% of the time running at below 100mhz and even 30mhz or below and when needed it ramps up which causes the "stuttering". All this can be fixed if Apple would simply let the iGPU run at around 300-400mhz at all times and this would aleviate a lot of the stuttering issues we've all be reporting for more than a year now.
 

mouthster

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2005
298
267
That really isn't the case. I use gfxCardStatus so I see when the GPU's switch over real time and 99% of the time the stuttering happens while on the iGPU. It's really just the OS causing the issue because the Intel UHD 630 iGPU is more than capable of driving the highest scaled resolution that the MBP 16 can select. Even with fonts smoothing and all of the other bells and whistles (AA) it shouldn't be this bad. As I've already mentioned it's how Apple has decided to throttle down the iGPU to conserve battery, if you use iStats you'll notice that the iGPU is 90% of the time running at below 100mhz and even 30mhz or below and when needed it ramps up which causes the "stuttering". All this can be fixed if Apple would simply let the iGPU run at around 300-400mhz at all times and this would aleviate a lot of the stuttering issues we've all be reporting for more than a year now.

My work laptop is a 2018 MPB 15" with an i9 (Same UHD-630) running Mojave. Running Intel Power Gadget / iStat I see the iGPU ramp down to 0mhz all the time and it's never exhibited the same kind of stuttering my personal 16" does. Also I don't know how often gfxCardStatus polls or receives a gpu switch event. It could be that the back and forth switch happens fast enough to cause a stutter, but not to trigger the gfxStatus notification.

Also, I can easily replicate this stutter by switching graphics using pmset in terminal, and immediately triggering mission control.
 
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