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What type of Macbook are you using?


  • Total voters
    306
  • Poll closed .

la_manzana

macrumors newbie
May 3, 2016
23
14
Your problem then was probably with Safari and not with the graphics in general, which is the problem people in this thread are experiencing. Which Mac model do you have? The freezing issue seems more common in Broadwell chip machines.

But never the less the solution that Apple tech advised is the same "reinstall OS X" as for the problem we discuss in this thread here. It seems that "reinstall OS X" is nowadays the most given advice from Apple tech. This remembers me the good old times of Windows 95 where I also had to reinstall my operating system every 2 or 3 weeks. ;)


Anyway I had also the issue with 10.11.4 on my MBA (Early 2015) that the hole system freezes completely from time to time while watching YouTube-Videos with Safari. I found that log entry of watchdogd that WindowServer is not responding.
"service (com.appleWindowServer) reported as unresponsive"

Two weeks ago after 5 or 6 freezes I had enough and restore 10.11.3 from a time machine backup. Since than I had no more freezes. Now I'm hoping that 10.11.5 will come with an fix for this problem.
 
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Antonnn

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 25, 2016
57
37
"service (com.appleWindowServer) reported as unresponsive"
This is just a result of the freeze not the cause, it's just the log reporting that the window froze and not that the window server is the cause, anyway from a dozen logs I've seen the messages there don't really help because they don't explain exactly what happened and basically just report what's happening on the surface.

Maybe its not related but yeah, it happens exactly in the same timeframe and usage patterns as my freezes did. So anyone else that had freezes several times per day before and have updated to PPB3 or PB4 AND is getting a black screen now instead of the freezing?

Jesper I suggest you to record when it happens and send the video link as a bug report since you are running the beta (https://developer.apple.com/bug-reporting). I would think the iMac has different drivers so it might be a slightly different issue.

On what hardware?
I second that question!, although from his previous posts I believe it's rmbp 13 2015.

I'm still freeze free so far.
 
Last edited:
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matheussber

macrumors newbie
May 5, 2016
1
0
Damn, no bueno.

Same problem here, but my friends with the same macbook13"early 2015 never reported the problem.
I called apple support and they said to reload the VRAM Cache or something like that, but on the same day i got the problem.
 

joelank

macrumors member
Sep 20, 2012
51
22
CEETEE
do you have Time Machine turned on? If so, turn it off and see if the freeze still occurs .. if it was TM that was causing the freeze, now you can look into how to fix that.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,285
7,454
Perth, Western Australia
Still haven't seen it. I've used mine regularly to watch MotoGP and WorldSBK feeds which are both flash based video and have had no issues. Other than the disappearing mouse cursor thing, apple really need to fix that.
 

la_manzana

macrumors newbie
May 3, 2016
23
14
This is just a result of the freeze not the cause, it's just the log reporting that the window froze and not that the window server is the cause, anyway from a dozen logs I've seen the messages there don't really help because they don't explain exactly what happened and basically just report what's happening on the surface.

But did I mentioned that WindowServer is the cause of the freeze?
I just repeated what watchdogd prints out into the system log.


According to terminal man page: „watchdogd is part of the watchdog infrastructure, it ensures that both the kernel and user spaces are making progress.“ If watchdogd reports that WindowServer is not responding, we can assume thats more or less the only process in kernel and user space that is not responding. Otherwise watchdogd will report other and more processes as not responding.

During one freeze that I had on my Mac I could still successfully connect to a running ssh deamon. In this terminal session I tried to kill WindowServer process, but this was not possible. I also tried to kill WindowServer before the freeze happen witch was possible and restarts the GUI of cause. We can count this as an indication that WindowServer is really not responding and that the watchdogd is not fantasizing when printing this into the system log file.

As far as we know from „Mac App Programming Guide“ published by Apple the WindowServer "is responsible for tracking mouse, keyboard, and other events and delivering them to your app." and "the window server delivers events, the app queues those events and then processes them sequentially in the app’s main run loop."

This means if the WindowServer is not responding it is at least the cause why mouse, keyboard and other events are no longer delivered to any application in OSX witch is of cause the behavior that a normal user that interact with the system will call „frozen“.

As you emphasise with your post this does not mean that we know the exact reason why the WindowServer is not responding. Yeah, thats true. But at the end it is the bloody job of the Apple engineers to find that cause and to fix it.


I disassemble the WindowServer just for curiosity witch seems pretty useless afterwards since this program only loads the CoreGraphics.framework and calls the function _CGXServer in it. But now we can at least say „a part of CoreGraphics.framework freezes“ instead of the ignorant „ the WindowServer freezes“ whitch is indeed a big step forward. Absolutely! Oh, wait a minute…. We still did not know the exact cause why a part of CoreGraphics.framework freezes or don’t we? So it’s not a big step forward…? Damn!

I also take a look into the CoreGraphics.framework too. But this is really huge and complex binary and I saw just from the function names that it implements and calls that it did pretty much everything related to the GUI in OSX, the connection to IO.framework (e.g. contact to graphic drivers, USB drivers, HID drivers, mouse drivers, keyborad drivers, etc.), do all the event handling, do the window handling and drawing and much much more. Way too much for me to find the cause while reading in the mashine code.

The cause can be a coding error in CoreGraphics (e.g. pending on a semaphore/mutex that is never released, waiting for another thread, an endless loop, a function call that never returns….) or a bug in the XNU kernel or an issue in any of the used drivers (e.g. the Intel graphic drivers)… it is up to the Apple engineers to find it.
 
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reyi

macrumors newbie
Apr 22, 2016
13
1
But did I mentioned that WindowServer is the cause of the freeze?
I just repeated what watchdogd prints out into the system log.


According to terminal man page: „watchdogd is part of the watchdog infrastructure, it ensures that both the kernel and user spaces are making progress.“ If watchdogd reports that WindowServer is not responding, we can assume thats more or less the only process in kernel and user space that is not responding. Otherwise watchdogd will report other and more processes as not responding.

During one freeze that I had on my Mac I could still successfully connect to a running ssh deamon. In this terminal session I tried to kill WindowServer process, but this was not possible. I also tried to kill WindowServer before the freeze happen witch was possible and restarts the GUI of cause. We can count this as an indication that WindowServer is really not responding and that the watchdogd is not fantasizing when printing this into the system log file.

As far as we know from „Mac App Programming Guide“ published by Apple the WindowServer "is responsible for tracking mouse, keyboard, and other events and delivering them to your app." and "the window server delivers events, the app queues those events and then processes them sequentially in the app’s main run loop."

This means if the WindowServer is not responding it is at least the cause why mouse, keyboard and other events are no longer delivered to any application in OSX witch is of cause the behavior that a normal user that interact with the system will call „frozen“.

As you emphasise with your post this does not mean that we know the exact reason why the WindowServer is not responding. Yeah, thats true. But at the end it is the bloody job of the Apple engineers to find that cause and to fix it.


I disassemble the WindowServer just for curiosity witch seems pretty useless afterwards since this program only loads the CoreGraphics.framework and calls the function _CGXServer in it. But now we can at least say „a part of CoreGraphics.framework freezes“ instead of the ignorant „ the WindowServer freezes“ whitch is indeed a big step forward. Absolutely! Oh, wait a minute…. We still did not know the exact cause why a part of CoreGraphics.framework freezes or don’t we? So it’s not a big step forward…? Damn!

I also take a look into the CoreGraphics.framework too. But this is really huge and complex binary and I saw just from the function names that it implements and calls that it did pretty much everything related to the GUI in OSX, the connection to IO.framework (e.g. contact to graphic drivers, USB drivers, HID drivers, mouse drivers, keyborad drivers, etc.), do all the event handling, do the window handling and drawing and much much more. Way too much for me to find the cause while reading in the mashine code.

The cause can be a coding error in CoreGraphics (e.g. pending on a semaphore/mutex that is never released, waiting for another thread, an endless loop, a function call that never returns….) or a bug in the XNU kernel or an issue in any of the used drivers (e.g. the Intel graphic drivers)… it is up to the Apple engineers to find it.

It is probably driver issue... i am still on 10.11.4 on MBPr 13" early 2015 and my last freeze was week ago.. it is not so bad
 

raymond7

macrumors member
Jan 14, 2016
55
27
Soo after like running 10.11.4 since it came out, today i had my first freeze, which was quite scary. It happened when i was opening a Youtube video. At the same time i was debugging some C++ code tho... .But luckily it was able to re-open everything that got shutdown. Also a MBPr early 2015 13 inch 8 GB RAM 512SSD...
 

PieTunes

Contributor
May 6, 2016
1,017
1,880
San Diego, CA
I have an Early 2015 MacBook Air and haven't experienced any problems until I updated to 10.11.4. Like others, I've had random lockups that result in the entire laptop being unusable. The cursor and screen both freeze, function keys don't do anything, the only thing that appears to work are the power button and the Caps Lock key light which toggles on and off. I've always had to power off the machine and turn it back on, there aren't any error messages at all.

I have noticed a few consistent things about this pretty inconsistent issue. It always only happens with Safari, and always whenever I click on a link that opens up a subsequent page that has a video in it. It's happened with pages on CNN.com with a video, or a YouTube page, a MacWorld article, etc. Not that it happens every single time but when it DOES happen, it's always in this manner. Initially I thought it was a Flash issue because I installed Flash roughly the same time 10.11.4 came out, so I uninstalled Flash but I still had it happen.

Another observation... about 85% of my use is with my machine in clamshell mode with an external keyboard, mouse, and monitor/TV attached. These crashes *never* happen when I'm using my machine this way; the crashes always happen with I'm not using an external screen. I can use the machine for a couple days all plugged in at my desk, then detach everything and take it to work, and an hour or so into it, everything would lock up. The external display connection I'm using is with a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI cable plugged into a Samsung TV, no adapters, just a straight cable.

Not sure how relevant any of this could be, but I'd be interested to know if anyone else has encountered a similar issue where it never locks up when using an external display.
 
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patrikrajs

macrumors newbie
Apr 11, 2016
5
5
I was contacting Apple Support. They don't know anything, asking general questions. Sended them also this thread, bud not sure if they really read it. (MBPr 13" early 2015)
 

Joobs333

macrumors newbie
May 7, 2016
27
9
I have a mid 2015 macbook air (latest version of el capitan 10.11.4) with safari freezing issues that mirror whats happening to a lot of folks here. Computer was freezing, with no ability to move cursor and not even a beachball warning, while having SAFARI open.

I called up Apple Tech Support and told them I reset pram and smc which did not fix the issue. The operator made me reboot in recovery mode to repair disks and told me to keep an eye on the cpu activity meter. I haven't used safari for a week since that tech support call and have experienced no freezing or crashing while using chrome and other apps. I'd have to reopen safari and use it to confirm although I'm pretty confident Safari is whats causing the crashes (or is at least a trigger for whatever bug is in the OS), something along the lines of what people have been reiterating here with Safari not playing nice with video.

Are people getting issues when not using safari and sticking to other browsers?
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,285
7,454
Perth, Western Australia
Wow, we just hit 40,000 views, and still no solution or acknowledgment from Apple...

Don't take this the wrong way, but for you guys having problems, if it is reliable and repeatable maybe take it into the apple store. I have not been able to replicate with mine, this machine has been 100% rock solid and more stable than my 2011 15" ever was. Not that the classic was bad, but i did initially have keyboard problems occasionally with Lion, a few graphical bugs with mavericks and of course now it is dead with the GPU issue.

This 2015 is my primary home machine, and gets a fair work out... the single issue i've seen is failure to wake from sleep once recently (last couple of weeks). I've had mine since August 2015.

Not saying you guys don't have problems, but perhaps it's not an across the board problem with all 2015 retina 13s - maybe a dodgy batch or something? Or a software problem? Either way, take to apple, replicate problem, get machine looked at.


2c.


edit:
For what it's worth, 99.9% of my browsing is done in Safari, i have flash installed, spend a lot of time playing youtube (dunno if that is flash video these days in safari or not) and also flash video on streaming web sites e.g. MotoGP.com, running 10.11.4... i keep on top of updates.
 

MRxROBOT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2016
779
806
01000011 01000001
Don't take this the wrong way, but for you guys having problems, if it is reliable and repeatable maybe take it into the apple store. I have not been able to replicate with mine, this machine has been 100% rock solid and more stable than my 2011 15" ever was. Not that the classic was bad, but i did initially have keyboard problems occasionally with Lion, a few graphical bugs with mavericks and of course now it is dead with the GPU issue.

This 2015 is my primary home machine, and gets a fair work out... the single issue i've seen is failure to wake from sleep once reasonably recently. I've had mine since August 2015.

Not saying you guys don't have problems, but perhaps it's not an across the board problem with all 13s - maybe a dodgy batch or something? Or a software problem? Either way, take to apple, replicate problem, get machine looked at.


2c.


edit:
For what it's worth, 99.9% of my browsing is done in Safari, i have flash installed, running 10.11.4... i keep on top of updates.

From what i've gathered it's a driver problem with not much recourse other than rolling back software for those that have access to it. People are just patiently or impatiently waiting (rightly so) for Apple to issue the correct software fix in 10.11.X
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,285
7,454
Perth, Western Australia
Presumably though, running 10.11.4, i am using the same driver as everyone else?

(And thus, i should be able to replicate the problem...)


edit:
Oh, i never use in clamshell mode. 99.999% of my use is internal screen, trackpad and keyboard only.

Maybe there's something in that? For those having crashes, are you swapping between external display and internal display without rebooting? Not apple hardware, but the intel video on my Surface Pro 4 totally loses the plot and has display driver crashes on a reasonably regular basis, and I dock/undock that on a reasonably regular basis without rebooting it.

I know - windows driver vs. OS X driver, but as I understand it intel probably provide most of the driver reference code, so wouldn't surprise me if there's some common video mode switching bug in there somewhere... i.e., switching between internal and external display may trigger some dodgy code in there which doesn't reset things properly when switching?
 

Joobs333

macrumors newbie
May 7, 2016
27
9
Presumably though, running 10.11.4, i am using the same driver as everyone else?

(And thus, i should be able to replicate the problem...)


edit:
Oh, i never use in clamshell mode. 99.999% of my use is internal screen, trackpad and keyboard only.



Maybe you can replicate the issue, maybe you can't. It's not necessarily as simple as you having the same version of the OS and hardware.


Interesting you mention clamshell mode. I do use a secondary monitor with my macbook air and was getting complete freezes while using safari, but with safari closed I have had no issues while using secondary monitor.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,285
7,454
Perth, Western Australia
Maybe you can replicate the issue, maybe you can't. It's not necessarily as simple as you having the same version of the OS and hardware.

Point being: if the apple supplied components (Hardware, OS X version and thus video driver are the same) then maybe its not an OS X bug (or rather, maybe it's not being triggered by something in OS X - but an OS X bug triggered by something else). Maybe it's some third party software. Or maybe it depends on behaviour i am not doing (like external display/clamshell mode). Or maybe its a bad batch of hardware...

Just trying to help rule things out... Mine shipped with 10.10 and i purchased just before 10.11 was released.
 
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Joobs333

macrumors newbie
May 7, 2016
27
9
Point being: if the apple supplied components (Hardware, OS X version and thus video driver are the same) then maybe its not an OS X bug (or rather, maybe it's not being triggered by something in OS X). Maybe it's some third party software. Or maybe it depends on behaviour i am not doing (like external display/clamshell mode). Or maybe its a bad batch of hardware...

Just trying to help rule things out... Mine shipped with 10.10 and i purchased just before 10.11 was released.

Yes these are good process of elimination ideas!
 
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max pl

macrumors regular
Jun 9, 2010
187
12
I have the issue on a late 2013 RMBP. i think it only happens after i close youtube tabs. have experienced it with both flash enabled and completely uninstalled on a freshly formatted computer.

have not tested whether its browser specific. i will try to only play youtube on chrome from now on and see if the problem persists.
 
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