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iphone2g&3gfan

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2013
147
103
Orlando, Florida
I’ll definitely have to download macOS Mojave tomorrow and start testing on MBP Mid 2010 (GeForce 320M). It’s hard keeping up with forum conversations.

Try this App: https://mactracker.ca/
I have the 15" 330m, but the Nvidia is dead. I run linux on it, so not much to do there. My main Air also runs linux, so I'll just keep an everymac tab open.
 

AppleGeek1127

macrumors member
Dec 30, 2014
78
10
We've had one person attempt to kextload the kexts without apparent success. We've had many developments since then about the methodology and procedure to test for acceleration, but your current chance is:
  • WindowServer has OpenGL code, and we can load the corresponding kext + GLDriver and get a fully functional desktop.
I'll try to explain this in the wikipost, later.
[doublepost=1528174959][/doublepost]
Command-V at boot, so we can see what's really going on behind the Apple logo?


Sorry I took so long, haha.
 
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iphone2g&3gfan

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2013
147
103
Orlando, Florida

Sorry I took so long, haha.
Argh, it seems that we have a simple initialization error. I can tell the GUI isn't started at all. Do you know how to recover it? Just copy the kext back from single user mode (mount -uw / first) or from recovery terminal. Anyway, this is useful to see that it doesn't entirely work yet. We'll have to test again with someone else, because loading the GUI without a GPU driver should be possible (as a fallback) so by connection it should load with just the OpenGL driver, even if its not accelerated.

I've gotta take a rest, I'll be back tomorrow evening Eastern time. My eyes are killing me, and thanks for being with me and my demands the whole time. It will greatly help our goal: to attempt the rescue of our macs. I'll try and get the wikipost started tomorrow, so we can document our efforts overall.
 

parrotgeek1

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2016
308
377
CA, USA
I am the creator of ~40% of the 10.12/13 patches including the USB driver.

dosdude1 and I have been investigating GPU drivers for most of the day and sadly we think it is not possible for any non metal GPU to work, because almost the entire OS uses Metal.

Evidence: Remove metal driver, it won't boot. Remove opengl driver, it boots STILL WITH ACCELERATION but stuff crashes. Also, removing the opengl software renderer doesn't break safe mode, so it must have a metal software renderer.

This leaves the compatibility list as theoretically

Xserve 2008 with new gpu
Xserve 2009 with new GPU
Mac Pro 2009
Mac Pro 2010/2012
 

Deregulated

macrumors newbie
Jun 4, 2018
6
7
I am the creator of ~40% of the 10.12/13 patches including the USB driver.

dosdude1 and I have been investigating GPU drivers for most of the day and sadly we think it is not possible for any non metal GPU to work, because almost the entire OS uses Metal.

Evidence: Remove metal driver, it won't boot. Remove opengl driver, it boots STILL WITH ACCELERATION but stuff crashes. Also, removing the opengl software renderer doesn't break safe mode, so it must have a metal software renderer.

This leaves the compatibility list as theoretically

Xserve 2008 with new gpu
Xserve 2009 with new GPU
Mac Pro 2009
Mac Pro 2010/2012
Guess ill have to buy a newer Mac later in the year.
 
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dosdude1

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 16, 2012
2,779
7,413
Anything for a 2013 model :D? Right now I've just disabled the Nvidia and use it on Intel but getting back the full functionality doesn't hurt!
Reflow or replace U8900 (GPU VCORE power regulator IC), as shown here.
[doublepost=1528177825][/doublepost]
Hahaha, I haven't had the time to do it though to my trusty 2010 15-incher, it works fine with i915 on linux with the Nvidia disabled though.
I can do it for you if you need... I do offer MacBook logic board repair services.
 

MP39

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2016
54
29
I am the creator of ~40% of the 10.12/13 patches including the USB driver.

dosdude1 and I have been investigating GPU drivers for most of the day and sadly we think it is not possible for any non metal GPU to work, because almost the entire OS uses Metal.

Evidence: Remove metal driver, it won't boot. Remove opengl driver, it boots STILL WITH ACCELERATION but stuff crashes. Also, removing the opengl software renderer doesn't break safe mode, so it must have a metal software renderer.

This leaves the compatibility list as theoretically

Xserve 2008 with new gpu
Xserve 2009 with new GPU
Mac Pro 2009
Mac Pro 2010/2012

When attempting to install Mojave 10.14.1 on my cMP 5,1 2010, it launches the installer and I get the "Select the disk where you want to install macOS." All of my disks are greyed out -- I have several options including HFS+ and APFS freshly formatted. I also have a High Sierra 10.13.4 that is greyed out.

When clicking on any of the disks, I get "This version of macOS 10.14 cannot be installed on this computer." I have an upgraded AMD Radeon HD 7950 3GB Card that fully supports Metal.

What am I missing?

graph.png


sys.png

installerwindow.png
 
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iphone2g&3gfan

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2013
147
103
Orlando, Florida
I am the creator of ~40% of the 10.12/13 patches including the USB driver.

dosdude1 and I have been investigating GPU drivers for most of the day and sadly we think it is not possible for any non metal GPU to work, because almost the entire OS uses Metal.

Evidence: Remove metal driver, it won't boot. Remove opengl driver, it boots STILL WITH ACCELERATION but stuff crashes. Also, removing the opengl software renderer doesn't break safe mode, so it must have a metal software renderer.

This leaves the compatibility list as theoretically

Xserve 2008 with new gpu
Xserve 2009 with new GPU
Mac Pro 2009
Mac Pro 2010/2012
Oh that's sad. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to test all that so thoroughly. Just as a curiosity, it should boot with every gpu driver gone EXCEPT the framebuffer kext:
HD original: AppleIntelHDGraphicsFB.kext
HD 3000: AppleIntelSNBGraphicsFB.kext
HD 4000: AppleIntelFramebufferCapri.kext
HD 4600/5000: AppleIntelFramebufferAzul.kext
HD 6000: AppleIntelBDWGraphicsFramebuffer.kext
HD 5xx (Skylake): AppleIntelSKLGraphicsFramebuffer.kext
HD 6xx (Kaby Lake): AppleIntelKBLGraphicsFramebuffer.kext
INTEL driver note: EACH generation has ITS OWN framebuffer kext. I.e AppleIntelKBLGraphicsFramebuffer.kext for HD 6xx and an ARCHITECTURE-SPECIFIC accelerator kext (i.e AppleIntelHD4000Graphics.kext for Haswell, which loads AppleIntelHD4000GraphicsGLDriver)
---------------------------------------------
Nvidia (ALL CARDS, stock drivers): NVDAResman.kext
Nvidia (ALL CARDS, WEB drivers): NVDAResmanWeb.kext
Note that stock drivers support: 8xxx, 9xxx, 2xx, 3xx, 1xx, 6xx, 7xx (tesla, tesla, tesla, tesla, tesla, kepler, kepler)
WEB drivers support: all stock, plus 4xx, 5xx, 750, 9xx, 10xx (fermi, fermi, maxwell rev. 1, maxwell rev. 2, pascal)
WEB drivers support all the architectures since tesla. So, if a quadro/tesla gpu has one of those architectures, then it will work, as well as some exotic laptop cards if NOT optimus (8xx mobile).
NVIDIA driver note: All cards use a SHARED NVDAResman (framebuffer kext), and an ARCHITECTURE-SPECIFIC accelerator kext (i.e NVDANV50Hal.kext=Tesla) that works with any cards matching it.
-----------------------------------------------
AMD:
HD 2xxx: AMD2400Controller.kext, AMD2600Controller.kext
HD 3xxx: AMD3800Controller.kext
HD 4xxx: AMD4600Controller.kext, AMD4800Controller.kext
HD 5xxx: AMD5000Controller.kext
HD 6xxx: AMD6000Controller.kext
HD 7xxx: AMD7000Controller.kext
AMD8000Controller.kext and on: TODO
AMD driver note: EACH card ARCHITECTURE (Evergreen=5xxx, Northern Islands=6xxx, etc) has ITS OWN framebuffer kext. I.e. AMD5000Controller.kext for AMD 5xx. NOTE: This rule doesn't match for the earlier cards. One was typically for the low end series, while the other was for the high end series. However, those cards are so ancient they probably won't be used by anyone on this thread and certainly no default gpu.
-------------------------------------------
Therefore, it is very odd that taking out the MTLDriver stops the GUI start. In previous versions, you could even boot without any kexts loaded (like for a 7300GT, it would still show 1024x768 without any framebuffer at all on an unsupported macOS like 10.11) but now taking out the actual accelerator driver crashes the GUI. Maybe we could test with JUST the framebuffer kext loaded to get correct resolution and nothing else? That's how it used to be, and in safe mode what would happen is the only kext loaded would be the framebuffer kext (to get correct resolution on real macs.) I wonder what safe mode does now, now that the MTLDriver is REQUIRED for the GUI. Perhaps they'll fix it by the public release timeframe, as by then people will need to be able to safe boot with the GUI working. Safe boot is done by holding shift during boot.
 
Last edited:

parrotgeek1

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2016
308
377
CA, USA
When attempting to install Mojave 10.14.1 on my cMP 5,1 2010, it launches the installer and I get the "Select the disk where you want to install macOS." All of my disks are greyed out -- I have several options including HFS+ and APFS freshly formatted. I also have a High Sierra 10.13.4 that is greyed out.

5,1 support will be in beta 2 according to the release notes. Of course we will get it to work sooner.

Oh that's sad. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to test all that so thoroughly. Just as a curiosity, it should boot with every gpu driver gone EXCEPT the framebuffer kext:
long post removed
Are there any cards which require web drivers and have Metal, and are older than cards supported by stock?
 

iphone2g&3gfan

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2013
147
103
Orlando, Florida
5,1 support will be in beta 2 according to the release notes. Of course we will get it to work sooner.


Are there any cards which require web drivers and have Metal, and are older than cards supported by stock?
That's precisely the question which we need answered. Oh gosh, I'm falling asleep. Hopefully I can get that figured out tomorrow, to see if maybe Tesla and Fermi can be gotten to work... See everyone later...
 

dosdude1

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 16, 2012
2,779
7,413
That's precisely the question which we need answered. Oh gosh, I'm falling asleep. Hopefully I can get that figured out tomorrow, to see if maybe Tesla and Fermi can be gotten to work... See everyone later...
I'm pretty sure that Metal requires a GPU to have a certain set of hardware features to support it... Similar to DirectX in the PC world.
 

Windows10isdabest

Suspended
Jun 4, 2018
6
8
That’s not the point though. Both my parents are on 2010 white unibody MacBooks with no reason to upgrade otherwise.

It’s all a big joke really. Windows 10 supports Macs that Apple dropped back in 2012. That is 6 extra years of support.

Apples lack of support for older machines condemns them to a shorter usable lifespan, which is environmentally unfriendly.
Windows 10 actually supports even white MacBooks from 2006 as well… As well as the custom built PC I have from 2003 and it runs fairly smoothly for basic things.
 

parrotgeek1

macrumors 6502
Jun 14, 2016
308
377
CA, USA
I'm pretty sure that Metal requires a GPU to have a certain set of hardware features to support it... Similar to DirectX in the PC world.
Tesla and Fermi have no code in any MTL* driver
[doublepost=1528180444][/doublepost]
Therefore, it is very odd that taking out the MTLDriver stops the GUI start. In previous versions, you could even boot without any kexts loaded (like for a 7300GT, it would still show 1024x768 without any framebuffer at all on an unsupported macOS like 10.11) but now taking out the actual accelerator driver crashes the GUI. Maybe we could test with JUST the framebuffer kext loaded to get correct resolution and nothing else? That's how it used to be, and in safe mode what would happen is the only kext loaded would be the framebuffer kext (to get correct resolution on real macs.) I wonder what safe mode does now, now that the MTLDriver is REQUIRED for the GUI. Perhaps they'll fix it by the public release timeframe, as by then people will need to be able to safe boot with the GUI working. Safe boot is done by holding shift during boot.

It will boot if you don't have MTLDriver OR GLDriver OR VADriver/GVA
 
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abcdefg12345

macrumors 6502
Jul 10, 2013
281
86
I really hope someone figures out a way to make 10.14 work on early 2011 MacBook pros, I don't feel like spending $3000 on a 2018 MacBook Pro to get an i5 processor, 8gb ram and 500gb ssd, when my 2011 MacBook Pro has the same specs, it docent feel like id be getting my moneys worth and it doesn't feel like an upgrade. otherwise lets just hope apple releases a new set of Macs that would make a good replacement.
 

Czo

macrumors 6502
Dec 30, 2008
437
274
Debrecen, Hungary
I really hope someone figures out a way to make 10.14 work on early 2011 MacBook pros, I don't feel like spending $3000 on a 2018 MacBook Pro to get an i5 processor, 8gb ram and 500gb ssd, when my 2011 MacBook Pro has the same specs, it docent feel like id be getting my moneys worth and it doesn't feel like an upgrade. otherwise lets just hope apple releases a new set of Macs that would make a good replacement.

Mojave will not work with hardware acceleration without Metal compatible hardware. Without it, the UI is nearly uselessly slow. The 2018 MBP with the same CPU clock is more faster than your 2011's MBP.
 

homohurre123

macrumors member
Jun 5, 2018
83
53
I really hope someone figures out a way to make 10.14 work on early 2011 MacBook pros, I don't feel like spending $3000 on a 2018 MacBook Pro to get an i5 processor, 8gb ram and 500gb ssd, when my 2011 MacBook Pro has the same specs, it docent feel like id be getting my moneys worth and it doesn't feel like an upgrade. otherwise lets just hope apple releases a new set of Macs that would make a good replacement.

Or just sell your actual Macbook as long the most people don't know yet its unsupported and buy yourself a good spected Retina Macbook from 2014-15. The new ones seem to have a lot of Problems so you might be better off with them for less money.
 
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