macOS 13.2 Breaks Compatibility With Pioneer's CD/DVD Drives [Updated]

[atomic.flip]

You can own content digitally. CDs & DVDs are dead

You are totally wrong making this statement.

First off CDs and DVDs are essentially just “digital content” media. Now that that’s out of the way.

I assume you mean streaming media. Well sorry to say but you don’t own “sheet” when it’s streamed. It’s like a lifetime apartment lease. It’s still just a lease. The licenses are non transferable. So you cannot sell or gift that license to anyone with any degree of ease.

When ever the service provider goes off line your access to said “owned” media disappears with it.

And even if you were promised you could have access no matter what… what happens when the internet goes down? No more media. Bye bye.

If you have a non time limited DRM or non-DRM copy of what ever digital media on a solid state drive or a hard disk or optical disc (which is what CDs and DVDs are) or even a freaking tape backup of said digital media….

Then that you do “own”. The vast majority of people no longer own any actual media.

 

[Marshall73]

Probably caused by the changes to USB security. Some devices like card readers work without a prompt others ask for permission. I’m guessing it should be asking for permission but is being flagged as a different device.

 

[jakey rolling]

And almost every other drive still does. So why would Apple target a few specific models? It sure could be their fault, but there might as well be some firmware shenanigans going on in the drives. It wouldn’t be the first time a device bends a standard only to be caught out when another vendor updates something.

Likewise, the Pioneer drives still work on every other OS out there - including those that are updated much more frequently than MacOS. Yet it is only broken in MacOS. Pointing to "firmware shenanigans" is a laughable cop-out. Apple has severely cut back on QC in their Mac OS division, and it has been showing with every iteration of their desktop OS. It's pretty clear that as far as their product roadmap is concerned, if it doesn't start with an "i", Apple don't care about it anymore.

 

[nt5672]

Well, I could always use my Windows PC instead...

Unfortunately, I am doing that more and more these days as Apple keeps moving away from me.

 

[Yebubbleman]

So no one at Pioneer can afford a developer account and a 599 Mac Mini?

Why is it Pioneer's responsibility to keep up with Apple's inexplicable desire to break macOS functions that weren't broken to begin with?

 

[eifelbube]

people still use CDs and DVDs on new machines? Lol

Yes, they do. Myself on an M1 Mac mini, using a Pioneer drive to import video materials for use in language teaching. What is the point of your comment, really?

 

[haddy]

You are totally wrong making this statement.

First off CDs and DVDs are essentially just “digital content” media. Now that that’s out of the way.

Yes of course; and you need a DAC to listen to the sound through your lovely high end speakers and subwoofer. But,but don't any of you on this board access the Usenet?

 

[bobcomer]

They haven’t broken all USB DVD drives, just the Pioneer one. Suggests that something was broken in the pioneer driver.

Disagree, those drives worked forever and still work on most machines, just not Mac's with the latest OS.

 

[Atconice]

The latest version of macOS Ventura breaks compatibility with Pioneer's lineup of USB-connected CD/DVD/Blu-ray drives for the Mac.

Apple released macOS 13.2 in late January with support for a new Security Keys for Apple ID feature and various bug fixes. Unfortunately, users who have installed the update have said that their Pioneer disc drives are no longer recognized by their Mac, with complaints about the issue found across the MacRumors Forums, Reddit, Twitter, Apple Support Community, and elsewhere online over the past two weeks.

The root cause of the issue is unclear at this time, but Pioneer has acknowledged the matter on its website and says it is investigating.

"We have confirmed that our optical drives are not recognized by macOS Ventura 13.2 released by Apple on January 23, 2023," reads a notice on Pioneer's optical drive product listings. "We are currently investigating this symptom. We would like to ask our customers who are using our optical drives to refrain from updating to macOS Ventura 13.2."

We have reached out to Apple for comment and will update this story if we receive a response.

Article Link: macOS 13.2 Breaks Compatibility With Pioneer's CD/DVD Drives

I have a Pioneer BDR-XS06 from 2016 that works just fine.

 

[bobcomer]

And almost every other drive still does. So why would Apple target a few specific models? It sure could be their fault, but there might as well be some firmware shenanigans going on in the drives. It wouldn’t be the first time a device bends a standard only to be caught out when another vendor updates something.

I don't think Apple targeted those drives, they just tweaked the USB drivers apparently too much for those specific drives (and probably others). Speculating it's something in the drive that's the problem has no basis in fact. You just don't know where the issue is, nobody does.

Apple changed the code, apple either fixes it or says sorry, you lose, we're not going to fix it.

I have a pioneer drive too, USB Bluray, good drive, very reliable.

 

[bobcomer]

Unfortunately, I am doing that more and more these days as Apple keeps moving away from me.

Ditto.

 

[dysamoria]

I recently had to make a floppy for an old Windows machine and while my USB floppy drive wouldn't work in Windows 11 it still worked in Ventura. 🤣

I use a USB-connected LS-120 drive (3.5” magneto-optical and standard diskettes) for bringing things from the internet to my Apple IIgs, Atari ST, Umax SuperMac, and Tandy computers fairly often.

Dropping all legacy support is bad, and I’m anxious to see the optical drives continue to be supported too. I still buy CDs and have DVDs with video and backups.

 

[visualseed]

I don't think Apple targeted those drives, they just tweaked the USB drivers apparently too much for those specific drives (and probably others). Speculating it's something in the drive that's the problem has no basis in fact. You just don't know where the issue is, nobody does.

Apple changed the code, apple either fixes it or says sorry, you lose, we're not going to fix it.

I have a pioneer drive too, USB Bluray, good drive, very reliable.

It's hard to know who is at fault but it is obvious that an update in the OS brought the problem to a head. It could simply be there was a problem with the USB controller in the optical drives that was "allowed" but technically not in spec and Apple in the name of security patched the OS to close that hole. Years ago Microsoft updated Windows 10 USB drivers and it bricked a lot of devices using FTDI USB chips because they were giving out the wrong ID during handshakes and Windows thought they were counterfeit. This could be something similar. Just because it used to work doesn't mean it was working correctly. It just means that it was tolerated.

Since this is the first version of MacOS to natively support USB security keys I would think Apple buttoning up the holes in their USB drivers to make them secure would be the first places I would look.

 

[zacheryjensen]

I have a Pioneer BDR-XS07UHD Blu-ray external drive and it works just fine on Ventura 13.2. I just double checked, ripped an audio CD with Music and copied some files on a Blu-ray disc.

This model has the warning on the web page about Ventura. There's got to be more to this than the Ventura update, or, the set of affected hardware is much more limited than implied.

 

[Tagbert]

Disagree, those drives worked forever and still work on most machines, just not Mac's with the latest OS.

I meant that some change in the latest OS broke the drivers. Whether that was a the fault of the OS or some previous bug in the driver remains to be seen. Other DVD and CD player continue to work.

 

[svish]

Hopefully a fix is coming soon.

 

[SoYoung]

Like others have said, there's still many music albums or specific singles that are still not available on streaming major platform, even known artists. If you really like music other than just listening the pop top 100, you'll eventually have to buy or have access to a physical CD for listening or ripping music that's not accessible other ways or the song is only available in poor quality online. Same thing for DVDs and Blu Rays.

Blu-Rays are still the best quality platform to watch movies. There's no online streaming platform that really match this, and many people likes to watch them on their computers. For those saying that Apple purposely shut down support for optical drives, know that other brands like ASUS drives are still working on macOS 13.2, so its just a stupid bug that should have been detected on the beta cycles.

And speaking of Betas, this release once again confirm to myself that public beta program is useless and Apple should remove this. In the past couple of updates (including iOS and macOS) public release sometimes have pretty major bugs in a way that I'm questioning myself what those beta testers do when they said its smooth, amazing and always praised apple for every single updates.

I'm one of those affected by this issue, and 2 weeks later with no word from Apple really bugs me off. Since september the whole iOS 16 and now macOS Ventura was problematic for me.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Why is it Pioneer's responsibility to keep up with Apple's inexplicable desire to break macOS functions that weren't broken to begin with?

Why have a beta program at all then?

 

[coolfactor]

If that was true then why does their own DVD drive work fine?

Drivers. The reason that Macs "just work" with 3rd-party peripherals is because they come with the drivers pre-installed, or know how to quickly download and install the driver automatically, such as printer drivers.

Chances are the Pioneer driver was either removed by mistake or contains code that is not compatible with Ventura 13.2. Apple did not write that code and does not maintain it. Pioneer does.

 

[bernoulli]

How much effort would it have taken to talk to the guy, explain the situation and help them to a solution. Maybe even sold them something to assist.
Instead you treat them as an idiot for not knowing technology (reason for coming to your shop) and drive them away.

That’s why he no longer works

 

[RedWeasel]

Drivers. The reason that Macs "just work" with 3rd-party peripherals is because they come with the drivers pre-installed, or know how to quickly download and install the driver automatically, such as printer drivers.

Chances are the Pioneer driver was either removed by mistake or contains code that is not compatible with Ventura 13.2. Apple did not write that code and does not maintain it. Pioneer does.

I’m pretty sure these drives use a so called class driver, which would be part of the operating system and maintained by Apple.

 

[iMacDragon]

Drivers. The reason that Macs "just work" with 3rd-party peripherals is because they come with the drivers pre-installed, or know how to quickly download and install the driver automatically, such as printer drivers.

Chances are the Pioneer driver was either removed by mistake or contains code that is not compatible with Ventura 13.2. Apple did not write that code and does not maintain it. Pioneer does.

Generally speaking dvd drives do not have custom drivers, they use standard protocols.

 

[macduke]

I had a crapload of old DVDs with photos and videos from high school and college that I never looked at because I didn't have a drive anymore. I borrowed one from my grandpa and copied off all my old DVDs to two external drives last year. I hate storing things on magnetic storage though. I kinda want to get a cheap, large capacity, slower SATA drive to backup things to and store an encrypted drive copy in my security deposit box. Or maybe a series of cheaper, lower capacity drives since SSDs are like the opposite of HDDs in price per GB for high capacity.

Sometimes I wish optical drives had stayed around for archival storage. I feel like by now we would've been able to store 25-50TB per disc if technology had kept moving forward. Or maybe we could have mini-sized large capacity discs. Imagine little 80mm discs with redesigned smaller inner spindles that waste less storage space and hold 10-15TB per disc. That would be so nice for archiving photos.

I guess most people do that on the cloud nowadays but I don't like sending everything into the cloud, especially if it's not Apple, and especially since some of those backup companies get hacked. But Apple doesn't offer a capacity large enough to backup old drives onto. Sucks! I wish they offered an iCloud archive tier. Maybe the speed would be slower after you upload them and it would only hold files but the price per TB would be lower? IDK!

 

[melliflu]

Rule of thumb: always stay one year behind at least with Apple OS.
That's the way to avoid most hiccups and bugs.

 

[RedWeasel]

Sometimes I wish optical drives had stayed around for archival storage. I feel like by now we would've been able to store 25-50TB per disc if technology had kept moving forward. Or maybe we could have mini-sized large capacity discs. Imagine little 80mm discs with redesigned smaller inner spindles that waste less storage space and hold 10-15TB per disc. That would be so nice for archiving photos.

Things like that exist:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1549175-REG/sony_odsd380u_optical_disc_archive_gen3.html

They're just pretty niche and very expensive.