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MacOS vs Linux vs Windows
- Thread starter muimui
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Obviously saying Linux is on the way out is way wrong, but with this little context maybe it was an apt thing to say for their business. I know nothing about networkable printers/copiers, but I would expect majority of offices use Windows or Mac computers, with maybe that one IT-admin guy using some Linux setup. If the company dealing in printers/copiers only deals with offices like this, they aren't going to care much about Linux.
For graphics design the tools are mostly the same on Windows and MacOS so it doesn't really matter which one you use. Maybe if you use 5K displays they are more convenient to connect to Macs but that's about it.
I currently use Windows 10 on my desktop PC for personal use and a 16" Intel Macbook Pro for work. I'm a web developer so for my work it's just more convenient to get everything working with MacOS without having to deal with the little quirks of "Unix on Windows" type setups.
Every time I've tried to go with Linux it has quickly become more of a maintenance chore. Something doesn't install because some dependency was missing or did not install correctly on this particular distro, there's no GUI for some common setting I want to change etc.
To me it's really about the path of least resistance. I use a desktop PC for my own stuff like gaming because Apple is a total no go for that and Linux with Proton is going to be an inconvenience with no benefits to me.
Purely as a desktop system you can do the same things on Windows and MacOS. I prefer MacOS (except for external display handling) but don't mind Win10.
Every time I've tried to go with Linux it has quickly become more of a maintenance chore. Something doesn't install because some dependency was missing or did not install correctly on this particular distro, there's no GUI for some common setting I want to change etc.
To me it's really about the path of least resistance. I use a desktop PC for my own stuff like gaming because Apple is a total no go for that and Linux with Proton is going to be an inconvenience with no benefits to me.
Purely as a desktop system you can do the same things on Windows and MacOS. I prefer MacOS (except for external display handling) but don't mind Win10.
Linux can work well in very large organizations where you have dedicated staff for updates, maintenance and managing the tools. If someone else is responsible for the stability of your environment, then you can just do your job.
Linux has always done me right... usually. Okay, maybe I've had the occasional rough patch but point to me a perfect OS with no bugs and I'll tell you that nobody uses seL4 on their desktop. Whether it be Mandriva 2009 as a little kid, Slackware as an angsty teen, or Fedora now on my wee MacBook2,1, I've always had a good experience with the penguin. And I'm not a programmer or anyone like that, I'm a writer. I just like its philosophy and how I can use it the way I want to, not the way a corporation a thousand miles away wants me to.
Not sure I would call it quite as lightweight as others have, but I can't say it isn't, either, it does get a zippy, responsive 60fps KDE desktop with dying RAM on my 2007 Core 2 Duo MacBook.
I absolutely detest Windows and the company it's made by, it's a garbage pile that's succeeded in destroying the diversity that is necessary in computing so that a single misplaced line of code doesn't wipe the world's hard drives or give people unrestricted access to webcams or anything of the sort. The only way I'd ever use Windows again is if it's either a VM, a Pentium II or Athlon build, or ReactOS. ReactOS will do in time to Windows what Linux and the BSDs did to commercial Unices that aren't
macOS is... something I've never used. I've used Mac OS X plenty, but not 11 or 12. Stopped at Snow Leopard, even if I had the hardware for Big Sur onward, I really don't like the UI changes that have gone on since 10.6, which had the perfect Mac GUI. Other than that, I think Jaguar and Leopard are my favorites.
FreeBSD is interesting. On the one hand, I like what I've experienced of it, and on the other packages don't work for me, probably because I installed it on my PowerBook G4 and none of the servers are expecting FreeBSD13.1-ppc. So what I have experienced is completely CLI.
Haiku is probably tied for favorite with Linux. Maybe it'd be even higher if it had better driver support, but I also understand that R1 is in beta and it's meant as a drop-in, binary compatible replacement for BeOS, and R2 is where it comes into its own.
Not sure I would call it quite as lightweight as others have, but I can't say it isn't, either, it does get a zippy, responsive 60fps KDE desktop with dying RAM on my 2007 Core 2 Duo MacBook.
I absolutely detest Windows and the company it's made by, it's a garbage pile that's succeeded in destroying the diversity that is necessary in computing so that a single misplaced line of code doesn't wipe the world's hard drives or give people unrestricted access to webcams or anything of the sort. The only way I'd ever use Windows again is if it's either a VM, a Pentium II or Athlon build, or ReactOS. ReactOS will do in time to Windows what Linux and the BSDs did to commercial Unices that aren't
macOS is... something I've never used. I've used Mac OS X plenty, but not 11 or 12. Stopped at Snow Leopard, even if I had the hardware for Big Sur onward, I really don't like the UI changes that have gone on since 10.6, which had the perfect Mac GUI. Other than that, I think Jaguar and Leopard are my favorites.
FreeBSD is interesting. On the one hand, I like what I've experienced of it, and on the other packages don't work for me, probably because I installed it on my PowerBook G4 and none of the servers are expecting FreeBSD13.1-ppc. So what I have experienced is completely CLI.
Haiku is probably tied for favorite with Linux. Maybe it'd be even higher if it had better driver support, but I also understand that R1 is in beta and it's meant as a drop-in, binary compatible replacement for BeOS, and R2 is where it comes into its own.
Well, depends how you define using seL4... - Apple Silicon devices do use an L4 kernel for the Secure Enclave. OK, it's not entirely seL4, just an L4 design, but still... Just a fun little aside, I'm not really making any point here
Interesting... But what is the replacement? Chrome OS (I don't want Big tech owning my data) iPad OS too hard to organize files.
When I first read your comment, my initial thought was to defend the classic "office" paradigm of operating systems ("office" as in place of business, not the productivity suite). But that argument would've been centered around how I use my computers.
The larger point is that the average person's use of computing technology has dramatically changed over the decades. Back in the day (before high-speed internet), people used desktop computers for mundane tasks... shopping lists, writing and printing letters to be snail-mailed. Maybe a simple spreadsheet for keeping track of expenses, vehicle maintenance, or bank balances.
Now, many people do nearly everything online. There's a dramatically reduced need for a physical printer (as is evident by the poor support for printing in chromebooks and yet that hasn't slowed down adoption).
Not only are people doing most things online, they're doing fewer things but more of those few things they're doing. Social media, banking, shopping, messaging, and email.
This is why the app-centric design of mobile operating systems is replacing the data-centric design of traditional desktop OSes.
Computers were tools to support a person's life... now they're (primarily smartphones) the hub that directs the workflows of life. In other words, we used to tell computers what to do, now they tell us what we are to do (by way of reminders, appointments, incoming emails, notifications, etc.).
I have MS Works 9 installed on my Windows 10 and Windows 7 notebooks. Partly to access some old, old files, but also as a bit of a throw-back experience. I had forgotten just how "personal" personal computing was not so long ago. MS Works was a real powerhouse for its time. The Works Launcher made a great family "hub" to organize tasks. Works had a great variety of templates and wizards (multi-step guided templates) to help the user be creative and productive.
Those days are gone.
This is just one old man's way of saying, "I agree with you".
For entertainment and just for being different than Windows, that's what I use at home, but the M3 really isn't fundamentally different than the first M1, so the M3 didn't change things. For work, I'm almost all Windows, and no macs.
Running Windows in a VM is getting better on Macs, but it's due to Windows on Arm getting better.
Windows is superior for anyone who uses a mouse, trackpad, pointing stick, or other non-1:1 pointing input. The reason for this is that Windows's mouse acceleration curve is based on science/research and is superior to all others. This is why mousing around Linux and OSX is inherently more difficult, even on identical hardware and equivalent mouse sensitivity settings.
On OSX, SmoothMouse can trim out about 95% of this, but that application does not work with operating systems newer than 10.11, and also does not help with the infamously-bad scrolling acceleration problem that is also inherent with OSX.
The sheer ineptitude in the area of mouse acceleration is alone enough to completely disqualify OSX from any kind of serious consideration for daily use.
On OSX, SmoothMouse can trim out about 95% of this, but that application does not work with operating systems newer than 10.11, and also does not help with the infamously-bad scrolling acceleration problem that is also inherent with OSX.
The sheer ineptitude in the area of mouse acceleration is alone enough to completely disqualify OSX from any kind of serious consideration for daily use.
Maybe for you and a select few. This reminds me of people who can hear tonal differences in records over CD's or digital music files. Not saying it is not true, but for the vast majority of the population they cannot tell a difference. I am not dying because of this supposed difference of how a Mac handles a mouse, and I don't notice anything better when on a Lenovo laptop or my gaming PC I built at home.
There is no difference between CD audio and records because they're both produced (now) from the same digital master. Even if they weren't, you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference. If you want a fairer test, someone came up with a blind side-by-side test of a 128kbps MP3 file and lossless audio. Even most sound pros couldn't tell the difference.
Mouse acceleration is not the same at all because any person with a mouse can blindly test it himself and reliably produce the same results. In fact, it's blatantly obvious to pretty much anyone. If you don't believe me, go to classic.mouseaccuracy.com, run the test with default settings, and then try it again with the same mouse on Mac OSX (with the sensitivity set the same, and without SmoothMouse enabled; no cheating!). The objective results might just surprise you. There's a reason why Linux and OSX users swear by keyboard shortcuts so much, and it's because the mouse acceleration outside of Windows is hot garbage.
Windows has the best mouse acceleration.
Linux has really great mouse acceleration as well. Windows one is better, but not by much.
Mac OS is far behind in this area.
But kb shortcuts has nothing to do with mouse acceleration. I use them on any OS, because they are far better than any mouse/trackpad, and they really speed up my workflow. I use them on Windows as well.
Maybe if you do the test it will be obvious, there is no uproar from the masses of computer users about how bad it is on a Mac with a mouse, I would also guess that if you asked 100 Mac users 99 of them would have no clue what you are talking about because they don't have issues with how a mouse tracks on a Mac.
The sound difference was an old comparison when people would make those comments regarding records and digital music. Can't say if it was true or not, but people would swear by what they said was better audio quality. Again for the masses they were completely fine with what they had. I do not doubt there is a difference, I would say that it is nowhere near as important as you make it out to be "The sheer ineptitude in the area of mouse acceleration is alone enough to completely disqualify OSX from any kind of serious consideration for daily use." Plenty of people are using Mac OS with zero complaints or knowledge about mouse acceleration.
Maybe if they made them listen on $5 headphones. If you said 320kbps, I would have believed, but 128kbps MP3? There is undeniable difference if you know what to listen for, compression artifacts are impossible to ignore
This just proves my point, what is impossible for you to ignore is completely listenable to someone else.
While we have group them together, they are entirely different operating systems.
1. Linux is used primary for servers but anything you want highly customizable is recommended in linux.
2. Windows is used by 99% of the corporate world, sadly if you want to participate in that world, you will need windows. Its also the most unreliable and most needy software ever.. I've gotten to the point where I disable my network adapter so it cannot do anything without me knowing while im not using it. Its 100% the best gaming OS, tho this is starting to shift. Id rather by a Switch then game on my Windows pc today tho.
3. Mac OS just works, its features are great and its reliable. I have not needed to run a antivirus in 10 years. But I am bias.
FYI Im a sys admin and work with all three daily.
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By the same token, there is little-to-no uproar from third-world people for lacking access to modern amenities, (fast Internet, clean water, not burning dung for fuel, proper plumbing, cars, modern computers, etc.) but mainly just because they haven't experienced them before. If you'd never used an automobile before, you might just think that the bicycle is the greatest mode of transportation ever. You may not have ever considered how comparatively slow and inefficient it is and how it doesn't do a very good job of keeping the rain out (plus, the sound system usually sucks).
Just because some people haven't used the superior product before (or has, but not yet put it together mentally) with "zero complaints or knowledge" doesn't mean that the massive and objectively measurable difference doesn't exist.
Interestingly enough, I've always found the exact opposite to be true. Windows usually "just works" about 80% of the time, and can be made to work with low or intermediate levels of knowledge the next 19%. There's generally less than 1% where the challenge is well and truly insurmountable.
Not so with OSX though. Want working mouse acceleration by way of SmoothMouse? Ok, but you can't update the operating system past 10.11. Want the latest version of Chrome, Office, or any number of other snobby applications? Tough toenails because those require something newer than 10.11, and the vendor isn't going to make it easy (in many cases) to find the latest compatible version. Want to edit video competently on an intermediate editor like PowerDirector? Too bad. Want to use any remotely-obscure piece of hardware? Bummer. Want a parametric equalizer program like Peace/EqualizerAPO on Windows or Wavelet on Android that doesn't cost money or require hours of pulling your hair out? It ain't happening. Want a Remote Desktop client that's not sluggish and laggy? Good luck. Want a Dreamcast emulator that runs half as well as it does on Windows? Sorry, because it ain't happening. Wish you could write to NTFS volumes or even just read a BitLocker-encrypted one? Keep dreaming. And that's just scratching the surface.
Now, that's a silly argument.
Same thing can be said in reverse. Want to read an encrypted APFS drive on a Windows? Or btrfs? Or ext4?
Every OS has it's strengths and weaknesses. It's purely subjective what someone prefers. For instance, I prefer linux distros. And I have my reasons. But if someone came to me and said do I recommend linux for running MS Office, or Adobe suite, I would say - no. Pick either windows or macos. Whichever you like more.
Modern amenities do not necessarily mean a better life. Some things for sure like clean water and sanitation, the rest we wrongly assume equals happiness. From my experience with people in villages in Kenya as well as other parts of the world that are not modernized like the west, they are extremely happy and content and are free and clear of tech anxiety, including is mouse tracking good enough. They don't care because in the grand scheme of things it does not matter. I have used Mac OS for years at work, last year they switched us to PC, I moved back to Mac OS a few weeks ago and I am not craving or even close to missing the mouse tracking because it is imperceptible to me as I am assuming it is for 99% of users. Yes there might be a measurable difference, but it does not make the lesser performing anything horrible to use. When I want to click on something I move my mouse to it and click on it. It works, it goes where it is supposed to at the speed I set to to, that is enough for me and I am more then content. I also have a gaming PC I built at home with some fancy Logitech gaming mouse and the software to adjust and calibrate to the surface it is being used on among other things. Other then wanting some specific settings for gaming there is no noticeable difference to me, leaving me content and happy with what I have on both sides, which I would rather be then so concerned about these nitty gritty details that ultimately do not matter or change how I interact with my computer.
Actually, I think that there might be drivers for opening at least some of those filesystems in Windows (even if read-only).
The thing of it is that it is lesser performing and horrible to use, comparatively speaking. And not just by a small amount. A 20-40% drop in performance is significant. As you put it, "it works," but does so badly because the method by which it accelerates is utter trash. It has precisely nothing to do with gaming. In fact, it's for basic productivity and desktop tasks where this flaw is most obvious and critical.
As for the ignorance-is-bliss argument, I suppose that's valid, but now that you know the problem is there and can see the difference for yourself, (again, test on classic.mouseaccuracy.com in both environments if you don't believe me) it can't be un-seen. Especially if your day job requires precise mouse use for hours on end like mine. If you're just leisurely goofing around on the web here and there, not doing anything mission-critical or time-sensitive, then I suppose it matters less, but even then, you should still have higher standards for technology. This was figured out decades ago, so it's not too much to ask of a modern operating system.
I think you said it yourself, for what you do you need something overly precise. I work in graphics, sit in front of Adobe CC all day long and zero issues with an Apple Magic Mouse and no difference from using some generic Logitech bluetooth mouse on a Lenovo laptop with Windows 11. I am not target practicing dots on a screen and doing that faster and more accurate would not change how I work or increase my speed.