MP 1,1-5,1 MacPro5,1: BootROM thread | 144.0.0.0.0

[MikkelAD]

Hello,

I have been away from this forum 6 months or so. I just discovered the other day that Mojave is compatible with my Mac Pro 5,1 and new firmware has been released as well.

In my mind switching from High Sierra to Mojave only gives problems and no real benefits:

1) One can't use HFS+ with SSD, so no TRIM function and slower boot because of the APFS

2) My ATI 5770 becomes useless since no METAL function

Any other reasons?

...But upgrading the firmware could maybe be useful?

Think I read something about:

1) 5 GT/s speed for the PCI - Only cosmetic in system information?

2) Bootscreen for non EFI GPU?


...So my question: What's the pros and cons of upgrading the OSX or just the firmware?

My Mac Pro 5,1 specs

W3690
2 SSD (samsung evo 850)
ATI 5770 / NVIDIA GTX 970
High Sierra
Boot ROM-version: MP51.0085.B00


Thanks in advance!

 

[tsialex]

Hello,

I have been away from this forum 6 months or so. I just discovered the other day that Mojave is compatible with my Mac Pro 5,1 and new firmware has been released as well.

In my mind switching from High Sierra to Mojave only gives problems and no real benefits:

1) One can't use HFS+ with SSD, so no TRIM function and slower boot because of the APFS

Mojave don't support HFS+ installs, correct, but TRIM and slower boot is not a problem. If your SSD has problems with TRIM/APFS, update the SSD firmware.

2) My ATI 5770 becomes useless since no METAL function

For Mojave, yes.

Any other reasons?

...But upgrading the firmware could maybe be useful?

Read the first post, there are lots of improvements.

Think I read something about:

1) 5 GT/s speed for the PCI - Only cosmetic in system information?

All PCIe cards got 5GT/s support.

2) Bootscreen for non EFI GPU?

No.

....So my question: What's the pros and cons of upgrading the OSX or just the firmware?

My Mac Pro 5,1 specs

W3690
2 SSD (samsung evo 850)
ATI 5770 / NVIDIA GTX 970
High Sierra
Boot ROM-version: MP51.0085.B00


Thanks in advance!

You shouldn't use a BootROM pre-Meltdown nowadays…

10.13.6 MAS full installer has MP51.0089.B00. Read the first post of the thread MP5,1: What you have to do to upgrade to Mojave to know what you have to do to upgrade your BootROM.

You will need to everything until you have BootROM MP51.0089.B00 if you don't have a METAL GPU.

If you have a METAL supported GPU, GTX 970 is not supported, you can get to 140.0.0.0.0 with the 10.14.3 MAS Mojave full installer.

Btw, Mojave don't support NVIDIA and AMD GPUs at the same time.

 

[MikkelAD]

TRIM and slower boot is not a problem

Aren't those problems specially related to the APFS system?

Updating my SSD is only possible via Windows? (think they are up to date from when I experimented with windows 6 months ago)

All PCIe cards got 5GT/s support.

Yes but isn't just cosmetic in system information? I tested it like described (http://www.macvidcards.com/50-pcie-speed1.html)

No.

Will my 5770 still work with bootscreen after firmware update and in OSX? - Right now my 5770 is needed everytime I install NVIDIA drivers for my GTX 970...

You shouldn't use a BootROM pre-Meltdown nowadays…

Translate please Meltdown?

If you have a METAL supported GPU, GTX 970 is not supported, you can get to 140.0.0.0.0 with the 10.14.3 MAS Mojave full installer.

...So despite system information --> GPU saying GTX 970 (metal compatible) it isn't at all?

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/gtx-970-mojave-replacement.262909/

From what I can understand the above describes that the GTX 970 will work in Mojave, when NVIDIA releases Web-drivers but it will never be optimal because CUDA is not used in Mojave...

 

[tsialex]

Aren't those problems specially related to the APFS system?

No.

Updating my SSD is only possible via Windows? (think they are up to date from when I experimented with windows 6 months ago)

Usually only Windows, some updates can be applied with FreeDOS.

Yes but isn't just cosmetic in system information? I tested it like described (http://www.macvidcards.com/50-pcie-speed1.html)

No, all PCIe cards now work with 5GT/s: USB3, SATA, M.2 adapters, etc.

Will my 5770 still work with bootscreen after firmware update and in OSX? - Right now my 5770 is needed everytime I install NVIDIA drivers for my GTX 970...

Mac EFI cards still work for pre-boot configuration/boot screens after updating the BootROM, no changes except that Mojave don't work with AMD and NVIDIA GPUs at the same time.

Translate please Meltdown?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meltdown_(security_vulnerability)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectre_(security_vulnerability)

...So despite system information --> GPU saying GTX 970 (metal compatible) it isn't at all?

https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/gtx-970-mojave-replacement.262909/

From what I can understand the above describes that the GTX 970 will work in Mojave, when NVIDIA releases Web-drivers but it will never be optimal because CUDA is not used in Mojave...

It's not supported with Apple native NVIDIA webdrivers, it only support KEPLER generation GPUs.

NVIDIA has to release Mojave drivers for anything newer than KEPLER work.

Read the first post of the thread MP5,1: What you have to do to upgrade to Mojave, a lot of your questions are answered there.

 

[bsbeamer]

GTX 970 will NOT work in Mojave because drivers are not available. Apple/macOS does not have GTX 970 drivers baked into Mojave (or any operating system) for Maxwell GPUs. Apple only includes FERMI and KEPLER drivers. Anything outside of that requires NVIDIA Web Drivers for the GPU to function properly, even if it's flashed/EFI.

CUDA has nothing to do with your GPU compatibility. It's "just" a feature supported by your GPU (like Metal and OpenCL).

 

[bcjenkins]

Today I inspected another Mac Pro with a full NVRAM - so many trash, PanicLogs and multiple repeated memory configuration blocks that I was surprised that it still boots.

I don't know if this was caused by Clover or a messed up Netkas upgrade, but for sure this Mac Pro is begging for a clean-up.

How does one clean up a NVRam in the proper method?

 

[MikkelAD]

It's not supported with Apple native NVIDIA webdrivers, it only support KEPLER generation GPUs.

NVIDIA has to release Mojave drivers for anything newer than KEPLER work.

Read the first post of the thread MP5,1: What you have to do to upgrade to Mojave, a lot of your questions are answered there.

GTX 970 will NOT work in Mojave because drivers are not available. Apple/macOS does not have GTX 970 drivers baked into Mojave (or any operating system) for Maxwell GPUs. Apple only includes FERMI and KEPLER drivers. Anything outside of that requires NVIDIA Web Drivers for the GPU to function properly, even if it's flashed/EFI.

Maybe I formulated it wrong...

I know at this point NVIDA haven't released any web drivers for my GTX 970 yet but that doesn't mean they won't at some point?

CUDA has nothing to do with your GPU compatibility. It's "just" a feature supported by your GPU (like Metal and OpenCL).

Yup I know - just stating that the CUDA feature won't work in Mojave...

Conclusion

When I don't plan to upgrade my GTX 970 for a METAL compatible GPU (don't specifically need to) and my Mac Pro at this moment is running: 10.13.6 with MP51.085.B00 my only "real" upgrade could be getting MP51.089.B00 and really not getting anything specially useful out of it since the more useful upgrades begins with 138.0.0.0.0 and Mojave.

Correct?

 

[bsbeamer]

You need to be on MP51.0089.B00 before you can get to 140.0.0.0.0.
To get to MP51.0089.B00 requires using an EFI GPU.
To get from MP51.0089.B00 > 140.0.0.0.0 requires using a METAL GPU.
I was able to update MP51.0089.B00 > 140.0.0.0.0 with GTX 1080 FE installed with NVIDIA Web Drivers without issue, staying on High Sierra at the time. See no reason the GTX 970 would not also work in the same manner.

No official statements from NVIDIA on Mojave drivers. Lots of rumor and speculation. Really would be best to take this further specific GPU discussion to one of the (many) other threads.

 

[Squuiid]

Maybe I formulated it wrong...

I know at this point NVIDA haven't released any web drivers for my GTX 970 yet but that doesn't mean they won't at some point?



Yup I know - just stating that the CUDA feature won't work in Mojave...

Conclusion

When I don't plan to upgrade my GTX 970 for a METAL compatible GPU (don't specifically need to) and my Mac Pro at this moment is running: 10.13.6 with MP51.085.B00 my only "real" upgrade could be getting MP51.089.B00 and really not getting anything specially useful out of it since the more useful upgrades begins with 138.0.0.0.0 and Mojave.

Correct?

You can upgrade to 140.0.0.0.0 without actually installing Mojave.

 

[MikkelAD]

You need to be on MP51.0089.B00 before you can get to 140.0.0.0.0.
To get to MP51.0089.B00 requires using an EFI GPU.
To get from MP51.0089.B00 > 140.0.0.0.0 requires using a METAL GPU.
I was able to update MP51.0089.B00 > 140.0.0.0.0 with GTX 1080 FE installed with NVIDIA Web Drivers without issue, staying on High Sierra at the time. See no reason the GTX 970 would not also work in the same manner.

No official statements from NVIDIA on Mojave drivers. Lots of rumor and speculation. Really would be best to take this further specific GPU discussion to one of the (many) other threads.

I think that is what confused me a bit. I understand that my GTX 970 won't work with Mojave because of the lack of web drivers but...

That doesn't mean I can't get the firmware more up to date...

You can upgrade to 140.0.0.0.0 without actually installing Mojave.

So 141.0.0.0.0 can only be done with Mojave install and of course 142.0.0.0.0 will "brick" my W3690...

 

[bsbeamer]

141.0.0.0.0 and 142.0.0.0.0 are in BETA release only, they are NOT publicly available.

 

[MikkelAD]

141.0.0.0.0 and 142.0.0.0.0 are in BETA release only, they are NOT publicly available.

Arhh I see!

I will try install the 140.0.0.0.0 firmware!

From previous experience do anybody know how it usually works with previous OSX and "newer" firmware updates?

I mean at some point won't they lock the firmware update so you HAVE to be on Mojave before any further firmware update can be done?

 

[bsbeamer]

See first post in this thread:

140.0.0.0.0 and previous macOS releases note:

Since a lot of people ask this question: firmware 140.0.0.0.0 can boot even 10.6.8, but only if your GPU has drivers for it. With RX-4xx/RX-5xx, you are limited to 10.12.6/10.13/10.14, per example.

 

[tsialex]

How does one clean up a NVRam in the proper method?

With BootROM reconstruction, but it's not a simple process. If you are having trouble and suspect your NVRAM is corrupted, I can PM instructions for you to dump your current BootROM and gather all the info needed to do the reconstruction.

 

[flowrider]

Geez - why does this happen Every post on this page (since post 3001) has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Except the poster has a W3690 CPU. Why was effort made answering Mikkel It just screws up this thread

Lou

 

[bcjenkins]

With BootROM reconstruction, but it's not a simple process. If you are having trouble and suspect your NVRAM is corrupted, I can PM instructions for you to dump your current BootROM and gather all the info needed to do the reconstruction.

My current issue is that my 5,1 is not coming out of sleep properly some of the time. The machine will wake, but the monitor will not detect the signal. I don't know that it is NVRAM related.

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro5,1
Processor Name: 6-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.46 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 12
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per Processor): 12 MB
Memory: 128 GB
Boot ROM Version: 140.0.0.0.0
SMC Version (system): 1.39f11
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f11
Radeon RX 580 (PCI Section):
Name: ATY,Orinoco
Type: Display Controller
Driver Installed: Yes
MSI: Yes
Bus: PCI
Slot: Slot-1
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x67df
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1da2
Subsystem ID: 0xe353
Revision ID: 0x00e7
Link Width: x16
Link Speed: 5.0 GT/s
Radeon RX 580 (GPU Section):
Chipset Model: Radeon RX 580
Type: GPU
Bus: PCIe
Slot: Slot-1
PCIe Lane Width: x16
VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 8192 MB
Vendor: AMD (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x67df
Revision ID: 0x00e7
Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1
Displays:
LG Ultra HD:
Resolution: 6720 x 3780
UI Looks like: 3360 x 1890 @ 60 Hz
Framebuffer Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010)
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Rotation: Supported
Automatically Adjust Brightness: No
Connection Type: DisplayPort
System Power Settings:
AC Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 26
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 0
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 26
Sleep on Power Button: Yes
Automatic Restart on Power Loss: No
Wake on LAN: No
Current Power Source: Yes
GPUSwitch: 2
Hibernate Mode: 0
PrioritizeNetworkReachabilityOverSleep: 0
UPS Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 2
Sleep on Power Button: Yes
Automatic Restart on Power Loss: No
Wake on LAN: No
GPUSwitch: 2
Hibernate Mode: 0
PrioritizeNetworkReachabilityOverSleep: 0
Hardware Configuration:
UPS Installed: Yes

Is this related?

 

[flowrider]

Well, completely of the path now

Lou

 

[tsialex]

Geez - why does this happen View attachment 826487 Every post on this page (since post 3001) has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Except the poster has a W3690 CPU. Why was effort made answering Mikkel View attachment 826488 It just screws up this thread

Lou

We have newbies reading the topic too and sometimes this will happen, but I agree that NVIDIA related questions and basic things that are on the first post should not be answered here as this is an advanced tread.

Btw, newbies are welcome, just read the first post before asking questions.
[doublepost=1552669934][/doublepost]

My current issue is that my 5,1 is not coming out of sleep properly some of the time. The machine will wake, but the monitor will not detect the signal. I don't know that it is NVRAM related.


Is this related?

Sleep problems like you are writing usually are caused by power supply problems, but sometimes the NVRAM can cause it too, specially if the 1st or 2nd stream are corrupted. The best way to check is with a dump. I'll PM instructions.

 

[MikkelAD]

Geez - why does this happen Every post on this page (since post 3001) has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Except the poster has a W3690 CPU. Why was effort made answering Mikkel It just screws up this thread

Lou

Are you kidding me?

I have been away from this forum, news on Mojave and Mac Pro in generel for 6 months.

I knew there would be diffrent complications with the Mac Pro, my GTX 970 and what was possible in terms of firmware updates.

Because of this thread I got information about why Mojave upgrade isn't worth it for me (since I won't change GPU) and possible web drivers haven't been released.

...But firmware update to 140.0.0.0.0 is possible for me and I shouldn't experiment with further updates at this point because of my W3690...

How can you say that the instructions I got is completely irrelevant for this thread?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^If this thread aided you, that's fine . That's the intended purpose. I'm glad you were helped.

But, you would have been better served by initiating your own thread with a tittle like "Been away for awhile - Need Advice" That way probably more folks would have seen your plight and offered assistance. But, contaminating this thread with unrelated issues only dilutes the thread's true purpose:

To discuss the effects of Boot ROM 142.0.0.0.0 and subsequent releases to correcting the bricking issue with Intel CPUs W36xx.

Lou

 

[tsialex]

Changes between 141.0.0.0.0 and 142.0.0.0.0, sorted by GUID:

18CEC42B-F0FC-4EFA-84AE-27D2184E873A - AppleROMVersion
2374EDDF-F203-4FC0-A20E-61BAD73089D6 <-- IoTrap
240612B7-A063-11D4-9A3A-0090273FC14D - UsbBusDxe
35B898CA-B6A9-49CE-8C72-904735CC49B7 - DxeMain
4CF484CD-135F-4FDC-BAFB-1AA104B48D36 <-- HfsPlus.efi
7EC21E57-CE8A-4FDE-B147-0F7C0959CD3F - ?? (Probably the font/ttf used with pre-boot configuration)
8E6BD67D-1872-4932-A39A-FC9DCA4A98CF - ??
A1F436EA-A127-4EF8-957C-8048606FF670 <-- UndiRuntimeDxe
AB8DDBAA-9C47-429B-9D12-326F273D9B88 - ??
B0D6ED53-B844-43F5-BD2F-61095264E77E - PchSmiDispatcher
B2CB10B1-714A-4E0C-9ED3-35688B2C99F0 <-- ApplePubKeys
BB1FBD4F-2E30-4793-9BED-74F672BC8FFE - PchResetRuntime
C194C6EA-B68C-4981-B64B-9BD271474B20 - PchSpiRuntime.efi
C3E36D09-8294-4B97-A857-D5288FE33E28 <-- EfiBiosId
CC582C73-F48F-4B62-83E8-A586B4C88F84 - AppleFirmwareFeatures.efi
CFFB32F4-C2A8-48BB-A0EB-6C3CCA3FE847 - APFSJumpStart
DF9A9591-B646-4621-AF0D-18143A73289F - LegacyBootFS.efi
E052D8A6-224A-4C32-8D37-2E0AE162364D - PchSmbusDxe
EF0C99B6-B1D3-4025-9405-BF6A560FE0E0 - SmbiosMisc
FC1B7640-3466-4C06-B1CC-1C935394B5C2 - PchSerialGpio

 

[tsialex]

Apple added a lot of new Public Keys to the Mac Pro firmware, GUID
B2CB10B1-714A-4E0C-9ED3-35688B2C99F0.

Not useful for finding the W3xxx problem but interesting that they are adding it to a Vintage Mac?!? This makes me really curious about why Cupertino still keeps updating Mac Pro firmware.

 

[Jimrd]

Apple added a lot of new Public Keys to the Mac Pro firmware, GUID
B2CB10B1-714A-4E0C-9ED3-35688B2C99F0.

Not useful for finding the W3xxx problem but interesting that they are adding it to a Vintage Mac?!? This makes me really curious about why Cupertino still keeps updating Mac Pro firmware.

Do you think this is a good sign for 10.15 support? Seems strange that Apple would go to all this effort only to stop support once 10.15 rolls..

 

[star-affinity]

I have an RX 480 without boot screens and once in a while, I have the same problem. Choosing the Startup Disk in settings will basically permanently change it until I do an NVRAM reset, and the Boot Camp software in Windows won't work. However, when I use this program to switch back and forth, I can then switch back to MacOS from Boot Camp in Windows no problem. You just need to make sure you disable SIP, and then again after any NVRAM reset.

Thanks, but I am using Boot Manger currently. The thing is it only changes the startup disk once, so once booted into Windows it will go back to MacOS on the next boot. While mostly OK for my needs sometimes I'd like to have the startup disk stay the same between boots, i.e. no matter if changing the startup disk in Windows or MacOS it should stay that way until I change it again.

This is supposed to work if installing the iMacPro1,1 Boot Camp drivers on the MacPro5,1 I have (support for APFS formatted MacOS boot driver is what matters I guess) but like I explained my computer only cares about the startup disk I set in MacOS.

 

[tsialex]

Do you think this is a good sign for 10.15 support? Seems strange that Apple would go to all this effort only to stop support once 10.15 rolls..

I have no hopes that Apple will support 10.15 with 2012 Mac Pros, but will be very welcome if Apple do so.