MP 1,1-5,1 MacPro5,1: BootROM thread | 144.0.0.0.0

[tsialex]

I don't actually have an empty disk. I would need to purchase one just for this. It's crazy that Apple hasn't provided a standalone 140.0.0.0.0 ROM updater and that, apparently, nobody can create one.

Apple don't provide installers for BootROMs since 2010 and no other supported Mac has the same way of upgrading BootROMs, all others upgrade automatically with updates. Your problem is the Metal detection bug with your GPU, even if Apple provided the standalone installer, you would have the same problem.

I can reconstruct 140.0.0.0.0 for your Mac, if you dump your BootROM and send the ESN label. I'll PM you.

 

[tsialex]

Apple released 10.14.2 DP3 today, no new BootROM, same 140.0.0.0.0.

New BootCamp
http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...af8n1rspzkhesdk1wluijkyn8ghej/BootCampESD.pkg

New RecoveryHDUpdate.pkg
http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...ag6/macOSUpdCombo10.14.2.RecoveryHDUpdate.pkg

 

[crjackson2134]

Apple released 10.14.2 DP3 today, no new BootROM, same 140.0.0.0.0.

Also got Pro Video Formats at the same time here.

 

[tsialex]

Also got Pro Video Formats at the same time here.

View attachment 804361

New eficheck too, obviously don't work for Mac Pro 5,1, but works for every other Mac.

 

[cococheaf]

The multiple SecureBoot certificates problem is exclusively caused by UEFI Windows installs, not with BootCamp or CSM ones.

The problem is that i am not able to install win10 legacy csm with a mbr formatted nvme disk. and gpt is not bootable with csm afaik?

 

[tsialex]

The problem is that i am not able to install win10 legacy csm with a mbr formatted nvme disk. and gpt is not bootable with csm afaik?

You can boot GPT with BootCamp, no problem. I have one SSD dedicated to BootCamp and works perfectly with GPT.

 

[cococheaf]

You can boot GPT with BootCamp, no problem. I have one SSD dedicated to BootCamp and works perfectly with GPT.

but on nvme? i try at the moment and i can assure that it dont work to install windows to a nvme disk in csm mode, neiter as mbr nor as gpt... am i doing something wrong?

 

[tsialex]

but on nvme? i try at the moment and i can assure that it dont work to install windows to a nvme disk in csm mode, neiter as mbr nor as gpt... am i doing something wrong?

Some people install into a SATA drive and just clone, I never had to do it, but I'm sure someone will help you with this.

NVMe/AHCI PCIe have the external problem that you have to workaround. If I'm not wrong Innie workaround it too.

 

[cococheaf]

Some people install into a SATA drive and just clone, I never had to do it, but I'm sure someone will help you with this.

NVMe/AHCI PCIe have the external problem that you have to workaround. If I'm not wrong Innie workaround it too.

Inni is only working for macOS, and cloning after installing to a sata drive gets me to a non bootable windows install...

 

[tsialex]

Inni is only working for macOS, and cloning after installing to a sata drive gets me to a non bootable windows install...

I'm sure people got this working before. Since I have a dedicated SATA SSD for BootCamp I don't exactly know what to do.

After my SSD7101-A arrive, I'll try to get this working.

 

[cococheaf]

I'm sure people got this working before. Since I have a dedicated SATA SSD for BootCamp I don't exactly know what to do.

After my SSD7101-A arrive, I'll try to get this working.

Yep, that would be cool. Maybe someone also can check that?

 

[Squuiid]

You can install Windows 10 in UEFI mode to an XP941 or SM951 AHCI SSD just fine. Just burn the CD, hold down option and select EFI.
While others have had issues with BootROM 087, I don't think the Windows 10 UEFI/EFI issue affects other firmwares.

I've been running Windows 10 Pro in UEFI mode on my 5,1 for years and years now, upgrading the Windows 10 builds with each new release and updating the BootROM firmware as well. Fortunately I skipped 087 which is the version which seems to have caused the bricks.
Happily running on 140.0.0.0.0 now and Windows 10 Pro 1809 in UEFI mode.

 

[cococheaf]

You can install Windows 10 in UEFI mode to an XP941 or SM951 AHCI SSD just fine. Just burn the CD, hold down option and select EFI.
While others have had issues with BootROM 087, I don't think the Windows 10 UEFI/EFI issue affects other firmwares.

I've been running Windows 10 Pro in UEFI mode on my 5,1 for years and years now, upgrading the Windows 10 builds with each new release and updating the BootROM firmware as well. Fortunately I skipped 087 which is the version which seems to have caused the bricks.
Happily running on 140.0.0.0.0 now and Windows 10 Pro 1809 in UEFI mode.

ok - thanks for that info

 

[bookemdano]

Biggest downside of Win10 UEFI mode I found is that you can't use Startup Disk in System Preferences to choose it to boot from, at least not in 10.14.0 (which is all I tried). Doing so reboots the cMP in CSM mode and it's looking for a legacy-mode Windows installation which it (of course) can't find. Even unplugging the Win10 drive wouldn't get it out of CSM mode (I don't have boot screens as I'm on a RX 580). I had to zap PRAM to get back to macOS.

After that I just wiped the Win10 drive and installed it in legacy mode. That works great with both macOS Startup Disk preference and in Windows with the newest Boot Camp Control Panel.

 

[PianoPro]

Biggest downside of Win10 UEFI mode I found is that you can't use Startup Disk in System Preferences to choose it to boot from, at least not in 10.14.0 (which is all I tried). Doing so reboots the cMP in CSM mode and it's looking for a legacy-mode Windows installation which it (of course) can't find. Even unplugging the Win10 drive wouldn't get it out of CSM mode (I don't have boot screens as I'm on a RX 580). I had to zap PRAM to get back to macOS.

After that I just wiped the Win10 drive and installed it in legacy mode. That works great with both macOS Startup Disk preference and in Windows with the newest Boot Camp Control Panel.

Ditto all of that including reinstalling as Legacy Boot mode. I wouldn't use UEFI mode again on Mac Pro (and I used it for years on Mac Pro with different versions of Windows). Not worth the hassle for little if any practical gain.

 

[tsialex]

Ditto all of that including reinstalling as Legacy Boot mode. I wouldn't use UEFI mode again on Mac Pro (and I used it for years on Mac Pro with different versions of Windows). Not worth the hassle for little if any practical gain.

Intel will need to release new microcodes, they are keeping it quiet since August and even at that time the microcodes were already vulnerable, since then lots of new side-channel attacks were published.

I don't want to risk another MP51.0087.B00 snafu, this is motive enough to keep with legacy/BootCamp/CSM.

If Apple wants to keep on top of security, we will see more BootROMs soon.

 

[Squuiid]

@bookemdano are you saying that the new BootCamp.msi can select APFS macOS drive as boot in the Windows BootCamp switcher when running Windows in Legacy/CSM mode?

I ended up with a spare cMP so I dedicated it to Windows only and so don’t need to switch OS, but if the new BootCamp has restored this functionality in Windows Legacy mode that is good to hear!

As for the benefits of UEFI in Windows on a cMP, the big one for me is that the SSDs run in AHCI mode instead of ATA (which is horrible and not great for gaming).
That’s pretty much it as the cMP most definitely does not support secure boot and UEFI unfortunately. You need a T2 chip for that it would seem.

 

[tsialex]

Are you saying that the new BootCamp.msi can select APFS macOS drive as boot in the Windows BootCamp switcher when running Windows in Legacy/CSM mode?

The iMac Pro one, yes.

 

[tsialex]

You have to really love to check things to be up past 4AM testing a BootROM from almost 9 years ago…

 

[bookemdano]

@bookemdano are you saying that the new BootCamp.msi can select APFS macOS drive as boot in the Windows BootCamp switcher when running Windows in Legacy/CSM mode?

I ended up with a spare cMP so I dedicated it to Windows only and so don’t need to switch OS, but if the new BootCamp has restored this functionality in Windows Legacy mode that is good to hear!

As for the benefits of UEFI in Windows on a cMP, the big one for me is that the SSDs run in AHCI mode instead of ATA (which is horrible and not great for gaming).
That’s pretty much it as the cMP most definitely does not support secure boot and UEFI unfortunately. You need a T2 chip for that it would seem.

Yes, as tsialex said, the 6.1 version Apple bestowed upon the iMac Pro (and probably other new-ish models). You can use brigadier to download the package and just manually install the Boot Camp Control Panel from it.

I should clarify though that it works fine with UEFI Windows installs too (since all it's concerned about is setting the APFS/HFS+ Mac Partition as the startup drive). What doesn't work with UEFI Windows is the Startup Disk preference under System Preferences on the macOS side, since on a cMP it expects Windows partitions to be installed in legacy mode it puts the cMP in the CSM/BIOS emulation mode, which won't "see" a UEFI Windows install.

I saw a few threads mentioning the ATA/AHCI thing, including one with a method to force AHCI mode on a legacy Win10 install. But I also saw people talk about (and post) benchmarks showing that the difference in speed is tiny. And apparently TRIM still works in ATA mode.

 

[Squuiid]

I saw a few threads mentioning the ATA/AHCI thing, including one with a method to force AHCI mode on a legacy Win10 install. But I also saw people talk about (and post) benchmarks showing that the difference in speed is tiny. And apparently TRIM still works in ATA mode.

It’s not so much the speed of the SSD that is the issue but more the hit on the CPU and increased latency IMO.

And yeah, the hack to force AHCI is probably not worth it as it is really quite ‘hacky’.

 

[cococheaf]

So then, i did some checks.

I have restored a clean backup of my 140 rom (thanks to @tsialex).
I removed all disks, then i booted the windows DVD in efi mode, shut down, restarted to mac os, dumped the bootrom and gave it a shot with binwalk.

ONE certificate was added to the freshly flashed bootrom.

Then i put in a clean SATA SSD, booted up again the windows DVD in efi mode, installed windows and so on.
same procedure as above.

Now the binwalk showed me TWO certificates.

I reinstalled the backup of my 140 rom again, started windows and then the same procedure again.

That gave me ONE certificate in bootrom.

So it's obvious that windows 10 is creating secureboot certificates at installtime and also at boot time if it find's no suitable one in the bootrom.

Then i gave it a shot and did the same procedure as above, but without flashing the bootrom.
Installed an older version of windows 8.1 in efi mode, dumped, binwalked -> and now it comes to its best:

NO new certificates in bootrom!

So i assume that if you have a clean bootrom and you install windows 10 in efi mode, it will not harm the bootrom as it already has installed two secureboot certificates, one for the install media and one for the windows installation itself.

I extracted the secureboot certificates from the bootrom and checked it with the ones from windows 7, 8, 8.1 and windows 10 (all versions), and they are THE SAME.

so it seems that microsoft hasn't changed the secureboot certificates sincerly.

In this case, my conclusion is as simple as that it will not harm your bootrom if it was clean before installation.
If there will anything going wrong, you can reinstall your original clean bootrom at any time and start out with a fresh one.

 

[Squuiid]

So then, i did some checks.

I have restored a clean backup of my 140 rom (thanks to @tsialex).
I removed all disks, then i booted the windows DVD in efi mode, shut down, restarted to mac os, dumped the bootrom and gave it a shot with binwalk.

ONE certificate was added to the freshly flashed bootrom.

Then i put in a clean SATA SSD, booted up again the windows DVD in efi mode, installed windows and so on.
same procedure as above.

Now the binwalk showed me TWO certificates.

I reinstalled the backup of my 140 rom again, started windows and then the same procedure again.

That gave me ONE certificate in bootrom.

So it's obvious that windows 10 is creating secureboot certificates at installtime and also at boot time if it find's no suitable one in the bootrom.

Then i gave it a shot and did the same procedure as above, but without flashing the bootrom.
Installed an older version of windows 8.1 in efi mode, dumped, binwalked -> and now it comes to its best:

NO new certificates in bootrom!

So i assume that if you have a clean bootrom and you install windows 10 in efi mode, it will not harm the bootrom as it already has installed two secureboot certificates, one for the install media and one for the windows installation itself.

I extracted the secureboot certificates from the bootrom and checked it with the ones from windows 7, 8, 8.1 and windows 10 (all versions), and they are THE SAME.

so it seems that microsoft hasn't changed the secureboot certificates sincerly.

In this case, my conclusion is as simple as that it will not harm your bootrom if it was clean before installation.
If there will anything going wrong, you can reinstall your original clean bootrom at any time and start out with a fresh one.

Well done and thank you for taking the time to do this.

 

[h9826790]

@bookemdano are you saying that the new BootCamp.msi can select APFS macOS drive as boot in the Windows BootCamp switcher when running Windows in Legacy/CSM mode?

The iMac Pro one, yes.

This is the "how to"

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ut-a-boot-screen.2114788/page-9#post-26689280

N.B. This procedure assume the user make a completely clean installation. If Windows is already installed. And the user only want Bootcamp 6.1, he MUST uninstall the installed Bootcamp 5 apps first (if installed), this is what step 27 does. And this step MUST be done with the installed bootcamp package version's installer.

 

[tsialex]

So then, i did some checks.

I have restored a clean backup of my 140 rom (thanks to @tsialex).
I removed all disks, then i booted the windows DVD in efi mode, shut down, restarted to mac os, dumped the bootrom and gave it a shot with binwalk.

ONE certificate was added to the freshly flashed bootrom.

Then i put in a clean SATA SSD, booted up again the windows DVD in efi mode, installed windows and so on.
same procedure as above.

Now the binwalk showed me TWO certificates.

I reinstalled the backup of my 140 rom again, started windows and then the same procedure again.

That gave me ONE certificate in bootrom.

So it's obvious that windows 10 is creating secureboot certificates at installtime and also at boot time if it find's no suitable one in the bootrom.

Then i gave it a shot and did the same procedure as above, but without flashing the bootrom.
Installed an older version of windows 8.1 in efi mode, dumped, binwalked -> and now it comes to its best:

NO new certificates in bootrom!

So i assume that if you have a clean bootrom and you install windows 10 in efi mode, it will not harm the bootrom as it already has installed two secureboot certificates, one for the install media and one for the windows installation itself.

I extracted the secureboot certificates from the bootrom and checked it with the ones from windows 7, 8, 8.1 and windows 10 (all versions), and they are THE SAME.

so it seems that microsoft hasn't changed the secureboot certificates sincerly.

In this case, my conclusion is as simple as that it will not harm your bootrom if it was clean before installation.
If there will anything going wrong, you can reinstall your original clean bootrom at any time and start out with a fresh one.

You forgot one little detail.

When Apple release a new BootROM, Windows will detect the change and resign again. If Apple changed the layout and offsets of the NVRAM volume like when they did from MP51.0087.B00 to MP51.0089.B00, Windows will sign it multiple times and in the wrong places.