MacRumors Giveaways... Why are they only open to U.S. residents?

[Sheza]

As was basically mentioned before: you’re very generous with other people’s risk and money.

You must be a lawyer!

Haha, good one! If I had a dollar for every time someone cracked that joke... I wouldn’t need to be a lawyer!

As I’ve said before, MacRumors is fine to continue to do US exclusive giveaways, but they should expect questions like these. My point is that their reason, their excuse, that they put at the bottom of every giveaway is... just nonsense, really.

The risk is negligible.

 

[TiggrToo]

The risk is negligible.

But not zero. And that is potentially a problem. All it takes is one incident to create a headache.

There was a quote in a movie I watched once that went something like “the bad guys need to be lucky all the time, the good guys just once.”

In this case, MR need to be lucky all the time, one bad luck incident can be a nightmare. So, why risk it?

You willing to cover ALL their financial losses should something bad happen? If not then quit trying to give them the benefit of your “legal advice”.

 

[Sheza]

But not zero. And that is potentially a problem. All it takes is one incident to create a headache.

There was a quote in a movie I watched once that went something like “the bad guys need to be lucky all the time, the good guys just once.”

In this case, MR need to be lucky all the time, one bad luck incident can be a nightmare. So, why risk it?

You willing to cover ALL their financial losses should something bad happen? If not then quit trying to give them the benefit of your “legal advice”.

Their financial losses, even if something does happen, will be minute.

 

[C DM]

Their financial losses, even if something does happen, will be minute.

Hard to know what it could really be, and what else could be in play beyond just potential and unknown financial losses.

 

[laptech]

But not zero. And that is potentially a problem. All it takes is one incident to create a headache.

There was a quote in a movie I watched once that went something like “the bad guys need to be lucky all the time, the good guys just once.”

In this case, MR need to be lucky all the time, one bad luck incident can be a nightmare. So, why risk it?

You willing to cover ALL their financial losses should something bad happen? If not then quit trying to give them the benefit of your “legal advice”.

Just exactly what 'bad' is going to happen?

There are thousands of companies in the US that ship products around the world. If the giveaways were open to other international areas, what if a Swedish member was to win a giveaway?, if a Swedish customer was to purchase a pair of Nike trainers from Nike's US online store and have them shipped to Sweden from the US, whats the difference in terms of postage and packaging and liability.

Could it be that Macrumors does not want to spend money on expensive international shipping?. It is far to easy to have stuff sent around the world today regardless if one is a business or a forum doing giveaways hence why I do not accept the excuse of it being due to gambling laws in other countries.

I know of many gaming forums that have sent giveaways to winners from countries all over the world and the admins never complained of it being due to a countries gambling laws. Wargaming.net, Ubisoft, Origin, Blizzard, Electronic Arts have all done it, so why can't Macrumors? (am expecting to hear same excuses as to why they can not).

 

[icanhazmac]

Just exactly what 'bad' is going to happen?

Sued by a foreign country? As others have posted the chance may be small but why risk anything? One either chooses to research the giveaway laws for every single country OR they just cover the majority of their users with the least incurred cost and risk possible.

Could it be that Macrumors does not want to spend money on expensive international shipping?

Why should they? If a giveaway, like a recent one, is a $20 iPhone case and the shipping to the exact opposite side of the world is $50 does that really make sense to you?

Wargaming.net, Ubisoft, Origin, Blizzard, Electronic Arts have all done it, so why can't Macrumors?

David vs Goliath in terms of legal department resources and budgets! MR has commented on before that just the legal work for just Canada was significant enough.

hence why I do not accept the excuse of it being due to gambling laws in other countries.

LOL, so you don't accept their public statement? So you are calling the owner/management of MR a liar(s)? Why hang out here then?

 

[Sheza]

Sued by a foreign country? As others have posted the chance may be small but why risk anything? One either chooses to research the giveaway laws for every single country OR they just cover the majority of their users with the least incurred cost and risk possible.

Why should they? If a giveaway, like a recent one, is a $20 iPhone case and the shipping to the exact opposite side of the world is $50 does that really make sense to you?

David vs Goliath in terms of legal department resources and budgets! MR has commented on before that just the legal work for just Canada was significant enough.

LOL, so you don't accept their public statement? So you are calling the owner/management of MR a liar(s)? Why hang out here then?

You would not be sued by a foreign country.

You might be sued by an individual within said country. That's if they have the cash to spend on legal fees where the reward is likely to be.... the cost of the item being given away.

 

[TiggrToo]

You would not be sued by a foreign country.

You might be sued by an individual within said country. That's if they have the cash to spend on legal fees where the reward is likely to be.... the cost of the item being given away.

Guess you'd have no problem then personally putting up a financial bond then to protect them? I'm mean if you feel the risk is negligible then what's the issue?

 

[Sheza]

Guess you'd have no problem then personally putting up a financial bond then to protect them? I'm mean if you feel the risk is negligible then what's the issue?

Sure, if they want then I will put up a personal guarantee for the value of the item they are giving away.

 

[TiggrToo]

Sure, if they want then I will put up a personal guarantee for the value of the item they are giving away.

But it's not just "the value of the item they're giving away". And that's obviously the issue - you claim the risk is negligible yet you are apparently oblivious to what the possible penalties are..

Said before, saying it again: you're awfully generous with other people's money.

 

[Sheza]

But it's not just "the value of the item they're giving away". And that's obviously the issue - you claim the risk is negligible yet you are apparently oblivious to what the possible penalties are..

Said before, saying it again: you're awfully generous with other people's money.

What do you think the penalties are, then? What do you think the risks are?

I’m interested to hear your thoughts. Maybe you should go and tell Android Authority about the risks too, might scare them into stopping their international giveaways.

 

[TiggrToo]

What do you think the penalties are, then? What do you think the risks are?

I’m interested to hear your thoughts. Maybe you should go and tell Android Authority about the risks too, might scare them into stopping their international giveaways.

I've zero clue, but then again I'm not the one advocating that MR take part in this.

I do know that there's a multitude of rules out there though.

And what Android Authority do is entirely their choice.

 

[Sheza]

I've zero clue, but then again I'm not the one advocating that MR take part in this.

I do know that there's a multitude of rules out there though.

And what Android Authority do is entirely their choice.

Let me clue you: you have to show loss. What does one lose when a giveaway is ran contrary to national legislation?

 

[C DM]

Let me clue you: you have to show loss. What does one lose when a giveaway is ran contrary to national legislation?

As many things do, it can likely be considered more in a risk vs. reward type of context.

 

[laptech]

As many things do, it can likely be considered more in a risk vs. reward type of context.

But what is the 'actual' risk. A few members keep mentioning risk but they will not go into detail as to what the actual risks are. If the risk is loss in tranist or damage in transit then all MR needs to do is put a disclaimer on the giveaway to say that they due to the nature of it being a giveaway, they are not responsible for any loss or damage of the item. It is no different to disclaimer used by companies that use car parks to say that they are not responsbile for any loss or damage of vechicles parked there.

 

[TiggrToo]

But what is the 'actual' risk. A few members keep mentioning risk but they will not go into detail as to what the actual risks are. If the risk is loss in tranist or damage in transit then all MR needs to do is put a disclaimer on the giveaway to say that they due to the nature of it being a giveaway, they are not responsible for any loss or damage of the item. It is no different to disclaimer used by companies that use car parks to say that they are not responsbile for any loss or damage of vechicles parked there.

Loss as in potential fines and legal action for breaking laws.

Ireland pretty much forbids such things and in France applicants can claim costs to enter.

 

[C DM]

But what is the 'actual' risk. A few members keep mentioning risk but they will not go into detail as to what the actual risks are. If the risk is loss in tranist or damage in transit then all MR needs to do is put a disclaimer on the giveaway to say that they due to the nature of it being a giveaway, they are not responsible for any loss or damage of the item. It is no different to disclaimer used by companies that use car parks to say that they are not responsbile for any loss or damage of vechicles parked there.

That's not the potential risk that has been described in various posts. The risk is not being in compliance with regulations and laws in different regions and countries. What that could potentially result in is somewhat unknown, but the risk is that it could result in something, and potentially something bad enough.

 

[AppleNZ]

Such a shame GIVEAWAY is only for U.S. or Canadian Citizens. Lots of U.S and Canadian Citizens live outside of the US and Canada, are they still eligible to enter with proof of passport. Rules says you just need to be a U.S or Canadian Resident, does not say where you have to live to be eligible. Good on MACRUMORS for the giveaway, excellent, but would also be good for MACRUMOR readers in the whole world with a chance. Keep up the good work though MACRUMORS.

 

[laptech]

Feedback on your latest giveaway...iMazing. DigiDNA which produces iMazing is based in Switzerland, Europe. I therefore find it very hypocritical and displeasing that Macrumours is prepared to accept giveaways from international companies outside of the US & Canada but they wont post the giveaway to anyone who lives outside of the US & Canada. This is not the 60's 70's or 80's it's 2020, get it sorted MacRumours.

 

[laptech]

Such a shame GIVEAWAY is only for U.S. or Canadian Citizens. Lots of U.S and Canadian Citizens live outside of the US and Canada, are they still eligible to enter with proof of passport. Rules says you just need to be a U.S or Canadian Resident, does not say where you have to live to be eligible. Good on MACRUMORS for the giveaway, excellent, but would also be good for MACRUMOR readers in the whole world with a chance. Keep up the good work though MACRUMORS.

Easy way to put is, if you live in Germany but was born in the US, then you are a 'resident' of Germany but a US citizen meaning you cannot enter the giveaway.

 

[TiggrToo]

are they still eligible to enter with proof of passport. Rules says you just need to be a U.S or Canadian Resident, does not say where you have to live to be eligible.

Resident = Where you live. Same thing.

 

[TiggrToo]

but they wont post the giveaway to anyone who lives outside of the US & Canada

From everything I’ve read, this has nothing to do with being cheap on postage, and everything to do with local laws. There are countless rules that regulate giveaways and sweepstakes around the world, ranging from minor limitations to flat out making them illegal.

Now, as to wether or not running something like this internationally would end up getting MR in legal trouble is up for debate, but that risk is not zero.

 

[AppleNZ]

Resident = Where you live. Same thing.

A mate of mine has a Green Card and is classed as a US Resident, not a US Citizen and lives in both New Zealand and the USA, so not permanently in the States, but he is classed as a Resident.. So for Giveaway, all you need is a USA Address for shipping, would that be a better way of putting things.

 

[TiggrToo]

A mate of mine has a Green Card and is classed as a US Resident, not a US Citizen and lives in both New Zealand and the USA, so not permanently in the States, but he is classed as a Resident.. So for Giveaway, all you need is a USA Address for shipping, would that be a better way of putting things.

U.S. tax residency – Green card test | Internal Revenue Service

You are a resident, for U.S. federal tax purposes, if you are a lawful permanent resident of the United States at any time during the calendar year. This is known as the "green card" test.

www.irs.gov

FYI: I’m a British expat, came in on H-1B, converted to Green Card & now a US Citizen.

 

[Plutonius]

So for Giveaway, all you need is a USA Address for shipping, would that be a better way of putting things.

I may be wrong but that's the way I read it.