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Macs are more expensive ... why?

mmahoney said:
Cave man reports his 24" iMac has an S-IPS Philips panel in it.
I don't think that is a consumer grade display.
Click to expand...

Yep, the 24" ALU iMac uses an LG.Philips LM240WU2-SLB1 panel.

Nonetheless, many of them have had serious problems with brightness
non-uniformity. It's not a defect in the S-IPS TFT matrix -- the problem
appears to be in the backlight/diffuser/inverter assembly.

Inspect it before you buy it; there have been reports that some of the
later production units don't have the problem. Other than the gradient
issue, the 24" ALU is a very nice package (if you like glossy screens).

LK
 
mmahoney said:
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing too convincing for me so far .. I'm a meat & potatoes user
Click to expand...

If you're happy being a meat a potatoes guy, then be one. You can get meat and potatoes at McDonald's for less than $2. I can't see any reason to spend more. If you haven't needed vegetables until now, then you probably never will.

Likewise, if you can do everything you want with a PC and save some money, buy the PC. Why do you think anyone here owes you convincing. Windows is irrelevant to us. And, no disrespect intended, so is your computer preference. For the most part, we are content in our choices and we wish you the same.
 
mmahoney said:
Thanks for the replies.

Nothing too convincing for me so far .. I'm a meat & potatoes user, just two programs so the features mentioned so far will probably be lost on me. As for the OS I find XP to be stable and fast and from what I understand will run Lightroom & Photoshop as good as OS-X.

I do like the way it looks but can't really consider that a buying reason.

The display may be worth the extra bucks .. are the 24's PVA?
Click to expand...

Stick with Windows then. If you havent used OSX you have now ability to compare why its far superior to Windows and why those of us that do use it are willling to spend extra.

Its like this, talked to a guy a few days ago and mentioned that Im a Mac user. His response, is a very pompous kind of way, "why?!?!" I said "have you ever used a Mac?" He said "no." I said "exactly."
 
emptyCup said:
You can get meat and potatoes at McDonald's for less than $2.
Click to expand...

Thats funny, hadnt thought of that. You can get meat and potatoes at McDs (burger and fries) for a cpl bucks, but a good steak and potato will cost you $15-20 or ever alot more. Would anyone dare compare the 2 though?
 
I'm not going to go through the comparison of hardware specs and prices, you already have lots of replies like this so far.

But it's not really what makes a Mac. A few have said it, but let me repeat it:

It's Mac OS X.

The OS doesn't get in your way. It "just works". However, if you have never really used a Mac (as in, your primary computer for at least a week or more) then that means next to nothing to you.

I had used Microsoft operating systems since MS-DOS 3.x, so maybe you're in the same boat. You won't be able to "get it" until you actually get to use a Mac for a few days. Yes, you'll have to re-learn small things (Command+C to copy instead of Control+C, etc - gets annoying when you switch between systems all the time), however the small learning curve is more than worth the switch.

If you like how iTunes "feels" like (except for the fact that it's slower in Windows), how it manages all the files and the technical stuff, then imagine the whole computer working like that. That's what OS X feels like.

I could write more but as I said it's pointless because you have to try it to understand, just like (here goes the car analogy) you can't understand how a luxury car feels like if you're used to drive 30-years-old cars in need of repairs. ;-)
 
I think the biggest problem to buying a Mac for ppl that are experienced, hands-on Windows users is that they have very few real problems, and the ones they do have they can solve on their own. They think "why should I switch? I know everthing there is to know with Windows, why even try something thats so foreign to me?"

I was one of those. It actually took me a long time, Id say a few months before I really began to appreciate how much I liked OSX more than Windows. You can even search my threads, I actually made a post a week after buying my first Mac (a mini in June 06) that said "had mac for a week, not overly impressed." So it definitely too me more than a week.

Im coming up on 2yrs now though, and will NEVER go back to Windows.
 
mmahoney said:
I'm looking at a much needed computer upgrade and have always used PC's. This machine will be running Lightroom & Photoshop only.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to try and convince you, but most graphic designers artists whatever you want to call them. The last I checked and spoken to many, a good percentage use Mac's.

1: The way how the UI works, its more fluid than Windows. (I just love how I interact with the OS X UI, keyboard shortcuts, Quicksilver and so on)
2: Colour Management. (I and they need good accuracy)
3: Stability and reliability.

I use to be a PC user. I can't stand Windows anymore. Everything bugs me to no end with Windows, and I have been a Windows user longer than a OS X user. I find OS X like second nature to my work activities.

However. When I decided to get my first Mac. I never asked on any forum etc or other people. I done my own research. The goods the bad's and so on. I also did not go to an Apple store to try out a Mac before I decided to purchase. I took a big risk and bought from the Apple online store, and it was a big risk that paid off from a good year or so of research.

I'm not trying to sound harsh towards you, I'm just explaining how I got into Apple computers. :)

Now I see PC's as your general motors. Sure you'll get them cheap and your average run of the mill etc, but the features and extras all the good things from Apple's OS X operating system is like going and buying a Rolls Royce/Mercedes Sport/Jaguar.
I'm sure you've heard the saying "you get what you pay for".

You can't get 100% perfection. After all its made by humans, but its 10 times better than the cheaper options, and to this day I'll never touch a PC again.
I still have some old-ish PC's (and they are not beige boxes, 1 is custom built by myself, just over a year old the other is 3 years old, custom built again) but they hardly ever get switched on as Windows is satan to me.

Windows world: Get new drivers = pain, bugs in the drivers = pain, Windows peculiarities = pain. Windows pain in the ass multi tasking capabilities = pain.
XP or Vista 32bit can't run more than 2 - 3GB, so I'd have to get a 64bit Windows OS, more money and the annoying amount of different versions of Windows. And then theres upgrading PC hardware because your piece of software needs faster hardware, but I find Mac hardware lasts longer and can do my tasks better and last longer than what a Windows machine will require.
Oh and 64bit Windows isn't all rosy in the 64bit driver department. If you have problems with it, 32bit driver versions get priority first.

I could go on forever with the pain I've had with Windows for the past decade. I do however have always solved my problems with Windows, but I had spent so much time fixing the damn thing than getting anything done!
It wasn't also that problems couldn't be fixed on my end because it was problems from 3rd party drivers from NVIDIA or ATI amongst many others that was well known. You either had to suffer it, get on with it and let it annoy you. Or they denied it, then the users problems eventually got exposed and rectified. Sometimes I've had driver tickets open with ATI for 7 - 10 months before it got fixed. Some people over a year. To me thats not acceptable.

At the end of the day, its what works for you and simply Windows computers just don't work for me (ie, not get along with the way I interact with the machine).
 
I have been working on a decent Windows XP machine at my new day job at a printing shop.
The Machine I'm currently subjected to can't see 1 of the networked printers, & I have tried to get it to recognize the scanner 3 times now.
When I Buy a printer or scanner, For my mac, I have no issues, IT WORKS, usually without having to install a driver at all.
I can also hook up External drives & have then instantly recognized.
However, Multitasking is non-existent on the machine at work.
It Freezes at least once a day, and when running Norton today before I left it found 17 viruses & a trojan horse!
Meanwhile I can
Compress 2 movies, Burn 2 DVD's ( as I am doing right now) at a time, Download 10 files with Azureus, and render animation with Carrara Pro 6,
All while surfing the net to post to people like you about why My MacPro Kicks the hell out of any PC I've ever seen or used.
They are not vulnerable to viruses or Trojan horses.
Hell my wife's Imac G4 would run circles around the PC you are looking at and it's 8 years old or so.
Macs work. PC's, not so much.
Buy a Dell or whatever, just don't be stupid enough to come to a MAC rumors site to get sympathy when you are doing your 3rd system wipe & install, because some code writing punk sent you the latest greatest & you cant boot anymore. We won't care, we own Macs.
We work because Macs work for us, not against us.
We challenge our machines, they don't challenge us!:D
 
You DO get more from "comparably spec'ed machines," because most people don't really put all the specs into their comparisons. Here are just a few of the things that most people fail to put into their comparisons:

OS X - obviously you feel this is a superior OS if you're thinking about switching. So just like you pay more for Photoshop than you do for PaintShop Pro, if you want the better OS software, it costs more money

Pre-installed software - with a Mac you get TONS of super useful software as part of the package, with most MS Windows machines you get a ton of crapware

better build quality - although Apple may've slipped from their high point, Apple's products will fail less often than many other manufacturer's machines (afaik)

better support - aside from the warranty that's similar to other manufacturer's warranties (afaik), with Apple you also get tons of free support for even machines that are ancient! Just take an old Mac to the genius bar at any Apple store, and they'll evaluate it for free, and if it's a reasonably simple fix that doesn't require any significant hardware work, then they'll fix it on the spot for free. (I've never tried this myself, but I've heard great things.)

Extra hardware features - don't forget to add in the cost of things like a video cam, backlit keyboard, multi touch track pad, etc etc. There are TONS of hardware things that most people forget to add into their price comparisons.

LED backlit LCD screen - LED backlighting is a HUGE improvement over standard CCFL lighting. On my 4 year old powerbook, the screen has grown very dim. When new it often used to be too bright to look at even when set at it's lowest brightness, now it's often not bright enough when set at its brightest. LED backlighting will make your screen as bright in 10 years as it is the day you buy it.

And much more.


When you compare 2 machines, just because the processors are the same, the ram is the same, the screen is a similar resolution, and the video card is similar, that does NOT mean the 2 machines are comparably spec'ed.

EDIT:

And that's not even to mention the MUCH higher resale vale that you'll get back when you sell your Mac to upgrade to a new one in several years. And that doesn't even account for the extra work that'll you get done when your computer doesn't constantly have weird problems popping up that need you to service them. Etc etc.
 
Macs are more expensive? You're comparing an iMac to a tower. Completely different. How about you compare prices to other Windows based all in ones? I'd like to also mention how UGLY most of them are.

Mhm...
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/gateway...prod.txt.1

"If Apple's iMac is the best all-around, all-in-one PC (if not one of the best all-around desktops), and Sony's VAIO LT19U succeeds in a very specific, high-end niche, where does that leave the new Gateway One? It's certainly attractive, but our fully loaded, $1,799 review unit has slower performance and a smaller screen than the less expensive, equally pretty iMac."

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/sony-va...prod.txt.9

"As we said, the VAIO LT19U can't compete with the iMac as a basic computer. The 20-inch, 2.4GHz iMac we reviewed costs $1,649 (counting the extra memory), making it much less expensive than the $3,000 VAIO LT19U. But even the 24-inch, 2.8GHz Core 2 Extreme-equipped iMac starts at only $2,299, giving you more monitor and more processor for $700 less than this new Sony and its 22-inch wide-screen display and its slower, 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo T7500 chip. Given the iMac's better core specs, it's hard to argue that Sony's Blu-ray drive makes up the difference."

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/dell-xp...prod.txt.1

"You know your performance is in trouble when your gaming scores are slower than a Mac's. But on every test, from music encoding to photo editing to multitasking, the XPS One falls behind the iMac that costs $750 less."

It's a load of crap.
 
look, i'm an apple fan, and a proud macbook pro user,
but all the apple apologists need to realize what the
price difference really is:

you all want to compare apples to apples, so you
configure a PC setup as close as you can to an existing
apple model. A Mac Pro doesn't have much competition,
and thus, it's price is comparable to other high end
workstations. Nothing compares to the form factor of
an iMac or a mac mini.

The problem is that a lot of people like OSX but they
have been using budget computers or midrange towers
their whole lives. They have no need to step up to a
Mac Pro. An iMac is still a fairly expensive computer.
A Mac Mini doesn't pack much power for the price,
even if it does have an awesome form factor.

Apple doesn't have a mid-tower. Something between
a Mac Mini and a Mac Pro. That's what most of the
PC world is buying.

For example: today my new computer arrived. It is
an Inspiron 530. Core 2 Quad @ 2.4ghz. 250gb hard drive.
1gb ram and integrated graphics. 24" LCD display.
That setup was only $670. I plan on spending another
$130 on another GB Ram and a halfway decent video card.

So for $800, I've got a pretty intimidating Dell.

For $800, I could get a mac mini 2.0ghz with integrated
graphics, only 1gb Ram, 120gb hard drive, and no
mouse or keyboard. not to mention if I'm comparing
apples to apples, I'd have to find a 24" display too.

Apple just doesn't have a machine that's even reasonably
close to MY new Dell in terms of price/performance. It is
just a huge segment of the market that they don't compete
in at all.

I prefer using OS-X to Windows any day. I still use my
Macbook Pro more than I'll use the Inspiron, but to make
apples-to-apples comparisons about pricing, it isn't fair
to just compare one way.
 
Leon Kowalski said:
If you're serious about graphics design &/or photography, the ALU iMacs
are a very poor choice. BTW, that's not just my opinion (and experience),
that's what AppleCare has been telling disappointed ALU iMac customers:

"iMac is [now] a 'consumer' product; if you want accuracy, buy a Mac Pro."
Click to expand...

If Apple's going to go that route, then they need to LOWER the prices and they need to lower them a lot. They can't continue charging what they charged for the previous generation of iMac when the display quality has dropped off that much.

I'm truly hoping Apple gets their s__t together on this soon. I've been in the market for a new machine and I want it to be an iMac, but I'll be damned if I put down that much cash for a half-assed display like that. The reason I've been a Mac user for 15 years is because of the quality of their products, but this is a joke. Those pics you posted of the screen quality are really disappointing (and that's not even to mention the freakin' idiotic decision to put a sheet of glass over the thing which further reduces the screen quality with reflection and glare.) :mad:
 
1dterbeest said:
For example: today my new computer arrived. It is
an Inspiron 530. Core 2 Quad @ 2.4ghz. 250gb hard drive.
1gb ram and integrated graphics. 24" LCD display.
That setup was only $670. I plan on spending another
$130 on another GB Ram and a halfway decent video card.
Click to expand...

For exactly the reasons you describe, I've been looking at PCs and considering switching off Macs. I'm technically proficient enough to do such a switch and given the horrible quality and inordinately high price of the iMacs, it's very tempting. I've never bought a PC but my focus has been on HP and Dell. I'm wary of Dell's so-so rep for quality. What's been your experience with it and why did you pick the Inspiron?
 
Thank you once again for the replies .. in particular the members who took the time to give considered answers in some detail, your time & help is appreciated.
 
Why does a mercedes cost more than my volkswagon, when they're both made in germany?

inkswamp said:
If Apple's going to go that route, then they need to LOWER the prices and they need to lower them a lot. They can't continue charging what they charged for the previous generation of iMac when the display quality has dropped off that much.

I'm truly hoping Apple gets their s__t together on this soon. I've been in the market for a new machine and I want it to be an iMac, but I'll be damned if I put down that much cash for a half-assed display like that. The reason I've been a Mac user for 15 years is because of the quality of their products, but this is a joke. Those pics you posted of the screen quality are really disappointing (and that's not even to mention the freakin' idiotic decision to put a sheet of glass over the thing which further reduces the screen quality with reflection and glare.) :mad:
Click to expand...

Go to the refurb section and choose an white imac with a better display. 17", 20" and 24" flavors. Less money. That should solve your problem, unless your real reason for being here is to troll.
 
Hmmm. I don't understand this thread.


The iMac has a freaking screen built into itself!!! If that alone does not justify a big sum of extra cash, then I don't know what does.
I consider it a bonus. All the PCs that I have ever owned or seen have been ugly. Why bother spending large amounts of cash on something that looks horrible that is going to fill your living room? I am not a designer freak or rich, but I hate spending money on ugly stuff. its absolutely horrible.

sigh.
 
MKnight said:
They are more expensive for the following reasons:

1. Premium build quality of hardware
Click to expand...

Please. Apple bids their manufacturing out to whoever can give them the lowest price in China.

My MacBook Pro had so many repairs they eventually had to replace it entirely, and three weeks into having my replacement MacBook Pro I had to have the LEFT I/O board replaced again.
 
clyde2801 said:
Why does a mercedes cost more than my volkswagon, when they're both made in germany?
Click to expand...

At least yours is made in Germany, my TDI is made in Mexico.

Back on topic, to the OP, I've had many people ask me to explain why they should get a Mac over a PC, when I fail verbally to get my point across I just let them use my PowerBook for a while and then the get a feel for what I was talking about.

It usually helps when they find out that my powerbook is older than their PC which no longer functions due to Spyware/Virus/Adware/Hardware failure, and is just as snappy as the day I got it.

Keep an open mind because which ever you choose, it will be hard to be happy with your purchase if you are constantly second guessing it.
 
Macs have FORM and functions. Function only, and poor at that with Windows. IDK about you, but which would you rather have?

Picture_12.jpg
 
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