Macs are more expensive ... why?

[Mindflux]

At least yours is made in Germany, my TDI is made in Mexico.

Your TDI was assembled in Mexico mostly by robots. Just like any car, anywhere these days. Are the robots in Mexico less adept at assembling your car than the ones in Germany?

I read this argument far too often on VW boards. "Blah blah your car was made in Mexico, it must be a POS".

 

[AMessy]

The iMac above should have the BT keyboard and mouse. That will probably be my next setup.

Your TDI was assembled in Mexico mostly by robots. Just like any car, anywhere these days. Are the robots in Mexico less adept at assembling your car than the ones in Germany?

I read this argument far too often on VW boards. "Blah blah your car was made in Mexico, it must be a POS".

Sorry if you though I was complaining with my made in Mexico comment, I wasn't. I guess I didn't know that people complained about the Mexico built VW's, I just made the comment because most people I know just assume they are all built in Germany. The only reason I wouldn't trade my current one in on a new one next year will be if Audi puts the TDI in the A4, I have to have a diesel.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

The iMac above should have the BT keyboard and mouse.

Wouldn't be a fair comparison to the Dell unless they come standard.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Are the robots in Mexico less adept at assembling your car than the ones in Germany?

Unfortunately, it all comes down to quality control at the factory, and that includes robots. So yes it makes a difference with some manufacturers.

 

[Shotglass]

Thanks for the replies.

Nothing too convincing for me so far .. I'm a meat & potatoes user, just two programs so the features mentioned so far will probably be lost on me. As for the OS I find XP to be stable and fast and from what I understand will run Lightroom & Photoshop as good as OS-X.

I do like the way it looks but can't really consider that a buying reason.

The display may be worth the extra bucks .. are the 24's PVA?

Read about Mail, Address Book, iCal, iLife, iWork (Pages is the shizzle), Adium, iChat, Anxiety, Quicksilver, Onyx, all those Mac-only apps on the intarwebs. Trust me, using a Mac will change the way you look at computers. And that's worth a whole lot more than 450$.

 

[savager]

I really don't understand how people are comparing AIO with desktop computer. It's totally two different machines, doesn't matter what specs are. If you are going to compare Imac, you should compare it with Dell One or Gateway One or Sony AIO thing, forgot the name. Which btw, Imac will out performed them all and much less price.

If you are going to buy something cheaper and doesn't matter how it looks, buying AIO computer is stupid. But if you like to make it simple and it looks good with everything else you have in your house, IMac is amazing and great price.

I think the original poster is a troll. You should never compare IMac to ugly black box! If you do, it's like you are comparing Porsche 911 to Modified Mitsubishi Evo. Yes, you can make Evo much faster and more horsepower than Porsche 911 with much less money, but Porsche looks thousand times better!

(BTW, I love Mitsu Evo, I think it's great car. And I do have ugly black box computer at home and it does serve me really well but it's hiding under the desk forever.)

 

[AMessy]

Wouldn't be a fair comparison to the Dell unless they come standard.

But this is a Mac forum, does it have to be a fair comparison?

 

[GradientMac]

"Macs are more expensive? You're comparing an iMac to a tower. Completely different. How about you compare prices to other Windows based all in ones? I'd like to also mention how UGLY most of them are.

Mhm...
http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/gateway...prod.txt.1

"If Apple's iMac is the best all-around, all-in-one PC (if not one of the best all-around desktops), and Sony's VAIO LT19U succeeds in a very specific, high-end niche, where does that leave the new Gateway One? It's certainly attractive, but our fully loaded, $1,799 review unit has slower performance and a smaller screen than the less expensive, equally pretty iMac."

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/sony-va...prod.txt.9

"As we said, the VAIO LT19U can't compete with the iMac as a basic computer. The 20-inch, 2.4GHz iMac we reviewed costs $1,649 (counting the extra memory), making it much less expensive than the $3,000 VAIO LT19U. But even the 24-inch, 2.8GHz Core 2 Extreme-equipped iMac starts at only $2,299, giving you more monitor and more processor for $700 less than this new Sony and its 22-inch wide-screen display and its slower, 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo T7500 chip. Given the iMac's better core specs, it's hard to argue that Sony's Blu-ray drive makes up the difference."

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/dell-xp...prod.txt.1

"You know your performance is in trouble when your gaming scores are slower than a Mac's. But on every test, from music encoding to photo editing to multitasking, the XPS One falls behind the iMac that costs $750 less."

It's a load of crap."

I love how everyone just completely ignored my post.

I just proved the OP wrong.

 

[1dterbeest]

i didn't ignore your post, i addressed you specifically.

You are right. there are no PC all-in-ones that are as
good as the iMac and as inexpensive. Apple has been
at the top of the all-in-one game for ages. Fine, if you
need me to butter you up, Apple wins the game of
the tiny market segment of all-in-one computers.

they do not, however, have anything between the
mac-mini and the macpro to compete with the
vast majority of PC towers that you seen in the
stores and in most people's houses.

For instance, the Dell I just got has performance
in between a mac mini and a mac pro, but at a
price that's WAY less than a comparable mac mini
setup, and it has room for expansion. There is no
mac to compare to it because that segment of
the market isn't something Apple is selling to.

 

[czachorski]

Apple keeps charging those high prices, and people keep paying it. Why would that be?

 

[savager]

i didn't ignore your post, i addressed you specifically.

You are right. there are no PC all-in-ones that are as
good as the iMac and as inexpensive. Apple has been
at the top of the all-in-one game for ages. Fine, if you
need me to butter you up, Apple wins the game of
the tiny market segment of all-in-one computers.

they do not, however, have anything between the
mac-mini and the macpro to compete with the
vast majority of PC towers that you seen in the
stores and in most people's houses.

For instance, the Dell I just got has performance
in between a mac mini and a mac pro, but at a
price that's WAY less than a comparable mac mini
setup, and it has room for expansion. There is no
mac to compare to it because that segment of
the market isn't something Apple is selling to.

Like you said, obviously Apple isn't targeting those people who is shopping for inbetween of Mac Mini and IMac. However, this poster is asking why IMac is more expensive than other dell pc. That's not right comparison. Yes, we can debate all day about how Apple OS is better than MS Windows, but that's not not too important here. Every company target certain time of market.

I am keep going back to the car comparison, but like Honda or Toyota or GM, they are targeting all different types of buyers. However, if you are going to specific brand like Porsche or Mercede Benz, they have specific audience. What you are saying is like, you walked into the Mercede Benz dealer and ask them why C class is $40k at the sametime fully equiped Honda Accord is less than $30k. And you are trying telling that it's a bad business for MB to just ignore those target audience where they are shopping for $30k or less family car.

Again, comparing IMac with some other ugly black box, isn't right comparison. Like other said, apple and orange!

 

[czachorski]

Like you said, obviously Apple isn't targeting those people who is shopping for inbetween of Mac Mini and IMac. However, this poster is asking why IMac is more expensive than other dell pc. That's not right comparison. Yes, we can debate all day about how Apple OS is better than MS Windows, but that's not not too important here. Every company target certain time of market.

I am keep going back to the car comparison, but like Honda or Toyota or GM, they are targeting all different types of buyers. However, if you are going to specific brand like Porsche or Mercede Benz, they have specific audience. What you are saying is like, you walked into the Mercede Benz dealer and ask them why C class is $40k at the sametime fully equiped Honda Accord is less than $30k. And you are trying telling that it's a bad business for MB to just ignore those target audience where they are shopping for $30k or less family car.

Again, comparing IMac with some other ugly black box, isn't right comparison. Like other said, apple and orange!

Exactly. And if the family car shopper walked into the Mercedes dealer with questions about price and features compared to Honda, they would probably politely suggest that he just go buy a honda, which is exactly what we should say to the OP.

 

[Apogee]

For $800, I could get a mac mini 2.0ghz with integrated
graphics, only 1gb Ram, 120gb hard drive, and no
mouse or keyboard. not to mention if I'm comparing
apples to apples, I'd have to find a 24" display too.

I don't think that is a very fair comparison for the Mini. You should instead compare the Mini with other small form factor PCs like the "Shuttle", and the iMac with other similar all-in-one offerings from Dell and HP. In that regard you will find Apples very competitively priced.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

Macs have FORM and functions. Function only, and poor at that with Windows. IDK about you, but which would you rather have?

<photo of iMac vs. Dell tower>

Hmm, nice clean iMac "All-In-One" installation ...BUT:

- where's the printer?

- where's the TimeMachine backup drive?

- where's the drive for my music/photos/video ?

- where's the USB/firewire "sound card"?

- where's the Elgato video input box?

My iMac has NINE connectors on the back of the cabinet, and the
cables for every one of those connections MUST be routed across
the desktop. I can hide a tower under the desk -- with only one
power cable, one video cable and (maybe) one USB cable visible.
The other stuff is either hidden inside the tower, or wired directly
to the tower, without crossing my desk.

...in the RealWorld™, "All-In-One" is pure fantasy,

LK

 

[czachorski]

I don't think that is a very fair comparison for the Mini. You should instead compare the Mini with other small form factor PCs like the "Shuttle", and the iMac with other similar all-in-one offerings from Dell and HP. In that regard you will find Apples very competitively priced.

All these "fair" comparisons are fine for talk, but it is hard to convince someone against their own judgement. The OP's is heavily weighted towards price/value/features/benefits. This is clearly not the Apple target.

My own judgement was been built up by 100's of tech products in the over 25 years I have been buying them. I have noticed a strong, strong correlation between higher price, and better products.

 

[vansouza]

I have been using PCs, buying or building them since the early 80's. I built them so I could have the exact machine I wanted at that moment and a few months later it was out of date. I kept up with the fastest processors and moved from Intel to AMD when that move made sense.

I am the last person you would think would be happy with anything from Apple as except for the Mac Pro none of of the Macs are easily upgradeable. But I got tired not of the hardware but of the OS. I stuck my toe in the water with a Mac mini and went nuts with the ease of use and everything else that makes Macs a joy to own. Now I could not care less about the hardware upgrade issues because the OS and the programs are for me, 100% spot on.

Finally when you factor in resale value: I can resell my used Macs and had to give away my used PCs.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Hmm, nice clean iMac "All-In-One" installation ...BUT:

- where's the printer?

- where's the TimeMachine backup drive?

- where's the drive for my music/photos/video ?

- where's the USB/firewire "sound card"?

- where's the Elgato video input box?

To be fair, the photo shows how much clutter the Dell has even without all these. The printer and the TimeMachine backup drive can be done wirelessly. The iMac already has speakers, doesn't it? All others are externals that must be plugged in regardless.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

And if the family car shopper walked into the Mercedes dealer with questions about price and features compared to Honda, they would probably politely suggest that he just go buy a honda ...

That analogy would kinda break down if all Hondas and Mercedes used
exactly the same Intel engines and Seagate transmissions, wouldn't it?

Honda and Mercedes both make sports cars, family sedans, and SUVs.
The prices, performance, and quality may be different -- but the basic
functionality of each respective product type is essentially the same.

Apple's refusal to sell a mid-range tower is like Honda refusing to sell
a family sedan with an automatic transmission -- because their CEO
"knows what's best" for you.

LK

 

[dollystereo]

The 24¨ imac has a H-IPS display that are better than S-IPS.

 

[savager]

That analogy would kinda break down if all Hondas and Mercedes used
exactly the same Intel engines and Seagate transmissions, wouldn't it?

Honda and Mercedes both make sports cars, family sedans, and SUVs.
The prices, performance, and quality may be different -- but the basic
functionality of each respective product type is essentially the same.

Apple's refusal to sell a mid-range tower is like Honda refusing to sell
a family sedan with an automatic transmission.

LK

Oh well, since you put it that way. Camry and Lexus ES share same engine yet Lexus charge you more than $5k+, again they are targeting different audience.

Infiniti G35 and Nissan 350Z share same engine, but there's big price difference.

There's few other cars out there that share same engine and transmission, yet they are targeting for different audiences and prices are according to that.

This post is comparing Lexus ES to Honda Accord. Price difference is about $5k to $10k. But you should compare Honda Accord vs. Toyota Camry. If you want to compare Lexus ES, you should compare them with BMW 3 series, which btw ES is much cheaper.

IMac vs. Dell One. IMac cheaper and better performance! Here, this should be the good comparison.

Yes, Apple doesn't make ugly box computer. If you want that way, go shop else where and stop bother and arguing in Mac Forum because no one cares if you are going to buy Dell instead Mac.

 

[mmahoney]

Anyways I think I'll get one .. once you consider in the quality of the display in the mac the price is actually pretty reasonable. And the form factor is pretty good, even for a cranky meat & potatoes user like me.

I'll have to replace some software ($700 for PS ) but that's life.

Again thanks for all the help, even those who tried to get me to think of a hot-dog vs. steak or Volkswagen vs. BMW .. it's all good.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

The 24¨ imac has a H-IPS display that are better than S-IPS.

The 24" iMacs use LG.Philips LM240WU2 displays -- with exactly the
same technology (and often, exactly the same part numbers) as NEC,
Dell, and other monitor manufacturers. Makes no difference whether
you call them "H-IPS" or "S-IPS" -- they're the same freakin' parts.

BTW, most ultra-premium Eizo monitors use Samsung S-PVA panels;
so don't put too much faith in the "conventional wisdom" about which
panel technology is "best." It's mostly marketing hype.

Yes, Apple doesn't make ugly box computer.

...nope, no boxes -- except their top-of-the line flagship model,

LK

 

[czachorski]

Hmm, nice clean iMac "All-In-One" installation ...BUT:

- where's the printer?

- where's the TimeMachine backup drive?

- where's the drive for my music/photos/video ?

- where's the USB/firewire "sound card"?

- where's the Elgato video input box?

My iMac has NINE connectors on the back of the cabinet, and the
cables for every one of those connections MUST be routed across
the desktop. I can hide a tower under the desk -- with only one
power cable, one video cable and (maybe) one USB cable visible.
The other stuff is either hidden inside the tower, or wired directly
to the tower, without crossing my desk.

...in the RealWorld™, "All-In-One" is pure fantasy,

LK

Man, you are so dramatic! Who runs cords across the desk? I also have 9 cords connected. All 9 run down behind the desk to peripherals hidden under or behind the desk. For me, not one runs across the desktop. And you claim to have all 9 running across the desk? Funny. I'd like to see that.

That analogy would kinda break down if all Hondas and Mercedes used
exactly the same Intel engines and Seagate transmissions, wouldn't it?

Honda and Mercedes both make sports cars, family sedans, and SUVs.
The prices, performance, and quality may be different -- but the basic
functionality of each respective product type is essentially the same.

Apple's refusal to sell a mid-range tower is like Honda refusing to sell
a family sedan with an automatic transmission -- because their CEO
"knows what's best" for you.

LK

Ahh - we smoked you out. What you really resent is that you feel that Steve knows what's best for you. It cracks me up every time someone posts such sentiment - it only shows that you don't really understand Apples strategy and model line-up philosophy. Here is an idea: if you really don't like the options Apple offers, don't buy one. Interesting that you actually own an iMac.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

What you really resent is that you feel that Steve knows what's best for you ...

... if you really don't like the options Apple offers, don't buy one.
Interesting that you actually own an iMac.

Apple land: wonderfully open OpSys -- closed, paternalistic, "we know best" hardware.

PC land: wonderfully open hardware -- closed, paternalistic, "we know best" OpSys.

...choose your poison,

LK

 

[inkswamp]

Why does a mercedes cost more than my volkswagon, when they're both made in germany?

Sadly, I think Apple's claim to be making the Mercedes of the computer world is not really accurate anymore. Their quality is slipping and their design decisions are placing them firmly in the standard PC box territory.

Go to the refurb section and choose an white imac with a better display. 17", 20" and 24" flavors. Less money. That should solve your problem, unless your real reason for being here is to troll.

So to get decent quality, you're suggesting that I go back a buy older equipment, therefore you are implicitly agreeing that the quality is slipping. So, what's with the Mercedes/Volkswagen comment.

And as far as me being a troll, please look over my posting history. I've been using Macs since 1992, and have been on this site for years as an Apple fan. That doesn't mean I'm going to sit idly by and let their recent missteps with the iMac and the ridiculously long wait for updates and the overpricing go by without comment. Apple's quality is dropping and their prices are unjustifiable. If pointing that out makes me a "troll" perhaps you should ask yourself why you're so sensitive to criticism of Apple.