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Macworld2009: tv Predictions
- Thread starter ipedro
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Not necessarily...
They could have 2 configurations...much like the Xbox 360...A HDless, very cheap model...that can stream all content from either another computer, or the internet. They could then (finally) activate the usb port for a HD. So if someone wanted it, they could buy that 1TB USB drive to attach to the ATV.
Put the HD costs in the hands of the consumer, not the manufacturer.
However I'm sure apple makes a killer markup on the small drives they have in the ATV already, that they probably don't want to change that...
I've said for awhile that the most useful thing Apple TV can do is not PVR or Blu Ray capabilities, but the development into a casual gaming console with downloadable games a la the iPhone/iPod Touch App Store.
Reading this thread, I may be putting two and two together...
Okay, so we know that Apple has a patent filling for a Wii-like remote for Apple TV.
We also know that some industrious developers noted the capability to control an Apple TV with the iPhone's accelerometer via TV-out.
We further know that Apple has been pushing the iPhone/iPod Touch line heavily as a gaming platform lately.
Now, what if we get "Apple TV 3.0" and it becomes the casual gaming platform I hope it will, complete with App Store, and it gets the ability to have iPhones/iPod Touches be the controllers (accelerometer and all)?
I think Apple isn't going to give up on iTunes video anytime soon; everyone will be downloading content eventually, and Apple wants to own that market like they do music. You figure, however, that Apple needs a good hook to help languishing Apple TV sales, and the above approach would do two things.
1. It would give consumers a whole new reason to buy an Apple TV.
2. It would cross sell products both ways (Apple TV owners would be more likely to buy an iPod as a controller, and iPod/iPhone owners would be intrigued by the ability to control an Apple TV gaming console).
I actually don't think the idea is all that far-fetched!
Reading this thread, I may be putting two and two together...
Okay, so we know that Apple has a patent filling for a Wii-like remote for Apple TV.
We also know that some industrious developers noted the capability to control an Apple TV with the iPhone's accelerometer via TV-out.
We further know that Apple has been pushing the iPhone/iPod Touch line heavily as a gaming platform lately.
Now, what if we get "Apple TV 3.0" and it becomes the casual gaming platform I hope it will, complete with App Store, and it gets the ability to have iPhones/iPod Touches be the controllers (accelerometer and all)?
I think Apple isn't going to give up on iTunes video anytime soon; everyone will be downloading content eventually, and Apple wants to own that market like they do music. You figure, however, that Apple needs a good hook to help languishing Apple TV sales, and the above approach would do two things.
1. It would give consumers a whole new reason to buy an Apple TV.
2. It would cross sell products both ways (Apple TV owners would be more likely to buy an iPod as a controller, and iPod/iPhone owners would be intrigued by the ability to control an Apple TV gaming console).
I actually don't think the idea is all that far-fetched!
^ I think you hit it on the nail. I should have included that in the poll.
At some point – perhaps at MWSF 2009 – tv could become a gaming platform. As you say, it wouldn't be a far jump in the road that Apple is taking the iPod Touch to.
tv is poised to become the central iTunes server in the home if it catches on. Because it is always on and always connected, it could serve media to an iPhone – remotely.
The tech already exists on the iPhone. Simplify allows you to stream music from your computer to your iPhone. Apple could offer a native app using tv.
You can be out and about, open the Remote app on your iPhone and using MobileMe, you can browse your tv's library and play the content on your phone.
At some point – perhaps at MWSF 2009 – tv could become a gaming platform. As you say, it wouldn't be a far jump in the road that Apple is taking the iPod Touch to.
tv is poised to become the central iTunes server in the home if it catches on. Because it is always on and always connected, it could serve media to an iPhone – remotely.
The tech already exists on the iPhone. Simplify allows you to stream music from your computer to your iPhone. Apple could offer a native app using tv.
You can be out and about, open the Remote app on your iPhone and using MobileMe, you can browse your tv's library and play the content on your phone.
I think everybody agrees that the sucker needs some major upgrades to become a popular item.
I know Apple loves their items to be small and stuff, but I think they could cut costs by making a slightly bigger device that uses 3.5" drives. I mean how big is the 1TB Time Capsule and how much extra guts are in it?
Another major annoyance is the crappy UI. It feels more like a fancy iPod than it does a TV addition. I think they need to make it look more like iTunes so we can get easier access to playlists. I also don't like how the top items on the menu are for the store. People play their own stuff on ATV way more than buy stuff. Same goes for iTunes, so hide all of that behind an "iTunes Store" selection.
Along with the above goes the $#@t remote. It's almost like they took a stock of iPod Minis and handed them out as $19 remotes. There needs to be a decent remote with such crazy things as audio selections, subtitles, play functions (pause, play, repeat title, repeat chapter, etc.).
I also can't stress enough the importance of easier playlists. They need to be sortable just like they are in iTunes. I don't organize my TV shows by name, I do it by episode!!! Alphabetize "Lost" episodes and see how much sense that makes.
I like the idea of ATV being a gaming platform, but I don't think it has enough penetration to compete with the Wii. You're not gonna get some major games on there as big developers are already trying to make stuff for about 10 platforms. You would likely end up with stuff like the App Store, but all of that "find my car" and "where can I eat?" stuff is useless in a stationary device.
I would like to see a DVD drive added, but I think Jobs has a Jones for ditching optical media. I think he's 100 percent nuts (or at least a good 10 years early) on this. Blu-ray Disc players are sinking below ATV's price, DVDs are often cheaper than iTunes Store downloads (quite unlike the CD vs. AAC battle), and HD movies aren't going to be any different.
I know Apple loves their items to be small and stuff, but I think they could cut costs by making a slightly bigger device that uses 3.5" drives. I mean how big is the 1TB Time Capsule and how much extra guts are in it?
Another major annoyance is the crappy UI. It feels more like a fancy iPod than it does a TV addition. I think they need to make it look more like iTunes so we can get easier access to playlists. I also don't like how the top items on the menu are for the store. People play their own stuff on ATV way more than buy stuff. Same goes for iTunes, so hide all of that behind an "iTunes Store" selection.
Along with the above goes the $#@t remote. It's almost like they took a stock of iPod Minis and handed them out as $19 remotes. There needs to be a decent remote with such crazy things as audio selections, subtitles, play functions (pause, play, repeat title, repeat chapter, etc.).
I also can't stress enough the importance of easier playlists. They need to be sortable just like they are in iTunes. I don't organize my TV shows by name, I do it by episode!!! Alphabetize "Lost" episodes and see how much sense that makes.
I like the idea of ATV being a gaming platform, but I don't think it has enough penetration to compete with the Wii. You're not gonna get some major games on there as big developers are already trying to make stuff for about 10 platforms. You would likely end up with stuff like the App Store, but all of that "find my car" and "where can I eat?" stuff is useless in a stationary device.
I would like to see a DVD drive added, but I think Jobs has a Jones for ditching optical media. I think he's 100 percent nuts (or at least a good 10 years early) on this. Blu-ray Disc players are sinking below ATV's price, DVDs are often cheaper than iTunes Store downloads (quite unlike the CD vs. AAC battle), and HD movies aren't going to be any different.
A simple HUGE improvement would be much bigger hardrives. That way you dont need to stream from your comp. Take2 was supposed to separate the TV and Comp, if you ask me its brought them closer together because there is more on offer but with low amount of storage space so if you have even a half decent sized library you need to stream because it wont fit on the ATV.
Is this a wish list or a prediction list?!?
Wish:
Better graphics - true 1080
bigger hard drive
enable usb connector
bluetooth for keyboard and mouse
'back to my mac' software
tv show rentals (really don't want a collection)
itunes server built in
Prediction:
2.whatever-the-next-number-is software
two new hard drive sizes
promise of apps in the future with ipod touch and iphones as controllers
Wish:
Better graphics - true 1080
bigger hard drive
enable usb connector
bluetooth for keyboard and mouse
'back to my mac' software
tv show rentals (really don't want a collection)
itunes server built in
Prediction:
2.whatever-the-next-number-is software
two new hard drive sizes
promise of apps in the future with ipod touch and iphones as controllers
^ It was meant to be a predictions thread based on Apple's trends and apparent road map. We already have countless wish lists.
So far, the realistic predictions in this thread for an announcement @ MWSF09 are:
Hardware:
- Upgrade to 2 new HDD sizes
- Better use of iPhone/iPod Touch as remotes or an entirely new remote with accelerometer and pointing support
Software:
- 3.0 announced
- Apps/widgets
- New video game focus
- Improved iPhone remote app: allows for remote media serving (like the Simplify app)
- iTunes server built in for real self contained system (no computer required)
- tv to tv streaming (for home networks with multiple units)
So far, the realistic predictions in this thread for an announcement @ MWSF09 are:
Hardware:
- Upgrade to 2 new HDD sizes
- Better use of iPhone/iPod Touch as remotes or an entirely new remote with accelerometer and pointing support
Software:
- 3.0 announced
- Apps/widgets
- New video game focus
- Improved iPhone remote app: allows for remote media serving (like the Simplify app)
- iTunes server built in for real self contained system (no computer required)
- tv to tv streaming (for home networks with multiple units)
When I saw the hidden TV Out features in the iPhone SDK, I immediately thought they were merging the unpublished ATV SDK with the iPhone SDK. This would allow developers to do an App Store for ATV.
I'm not sure why they didn't do this before (other than too busy on iPhone), or maybe a bargaining chip with the Movie Studios to not allow the device to play divx and all the other "Pirate" codecs.
I guess a lot of the predictions where done on other threads. I thought the iPod touch or iPhone could be a controller for ATV games in the App store.
The other possibility is all those Wii like controllers that Apple patented last year finally coming to fruition.
Chip upgrade? Not likely, at least not to an Atom. I would think a speed bump, maybe they would finally enable h.264 hardware decoding and perhaps 1080P decoding. Hopefully increase or get rid of the streaming limitations (4GB & ??? bit rate).
I think a no brainer would be the move to Sata controller / disks as none of the disk vendors seem to be building disks using the older ATA-6.
I would love to see an external eSata port or USB 3.0 (too early) so you can expand like you would a cable box. This would get them out of having to provide large capacity internal disks.
Love to speculate! LOL
I'm not sure why they didn't do this before (other than too busy on iPhone), or maybe a bargaining chip with the Movie Studios to not allow the device to play divx and all the other "Pirate" codecs.
I guess a lot of the predictions where done on other threads. I thought the iPod touch or iPhone could be a controller for ATV games in the App store.
The other possibility is all those Wii like controllers that Apple patented last year finally coming to fruition.
Chip upgrade? Not likely, at least not to an Atom. I would think a speed bump, maybe they would finally enable h.264 hardware decoding and perhaps 1080P decoding. Hopefully increase or get rid of the streaming limitations (4GB & ??? bit rate).
I think a no brainer would be the move to Sata controller / disks as none of the disk vendors seem to be building disks using the older ATA-6.
I would love to see an external eSata port or USB 3.0 (too early) so you can expand like you would a cable box. This would get them out of having to provide large capacity internal disks.
Love to speculate! LOL
I think that the processor in the ATV is pretty anemic for games. And the video driver. And the memory. It isn't going to be able to compete with the Wii, PS3, or xBox360. Maybe the iPhone/iPod Touch? It would probably have trouble with 1080p as it stands. That might be where a processor upgrade comes in, but I don't see games or an open platform in the near-term.
A larger enclosure, like the Time Capsule, could allow them to use larger 3.5 inch drives and go SATA. That would help with some economies of scale. I like the idea of the ATV becoming the media hub for the house. I think that is a missing piece in the Apple equation. Right now, it can't be because the hard drive is way too small. I think Apple (rightly so) probably would also see it as confusing to consumers who might want a Time Capsule. Merging the ATV and Time Capsule might make more sense than merging the ATV and Mac Mini. With the "enterprise class" drive, that would make the media hub more reliable, but backup is still an issue. It would be an interesting direction for Apple to take.
I doubt we will see a user-upgradable hard drive option in the ATV. Other than the Mac Pro line, Apple has not product lines that currently allow the end user to service the storage - iMac, Mac Book, Mac Mini, iPod, iPhone, Time Capsule, etc. It just doesn't fit with their simplicity model.
I think that they are going to have to go SATA at some point, but that could be a stealth upgrade. If they are shooting for 1080p, they might need to upgrade their processor. I foresee incremental upgrades in the software as well. Unless they have a great new idea we won't see anything more dramatic that additional codecs and small applications like YouTube.
A larger enclosure, like the Time Capsule, could allow them to use larger 3.5 inch drives and go SATA. That would help with some economies of scale. I like the idea of the ATV becoming the media hub for the house. I think that is a missing piece in the Apple equation. Right now, it can't be because the hard drive is way too small. I think Apple (rightly so) probably would also see it as confusing to consumers who might want a Time Capsule. Merging the ATV and Time Capsule might make more sense than merging the ATV and Mac Mini. With the "enterprise class" drive, that would make the media hub more reliable, but backup is still an issue. It would be an interesting direction for Apple to take.
I doubt we will see a user-upgradable hard drive option in the ATV. Other than the Mac Pro line, Apple has not product lines that currently allow the end user to service the storage - iMac, Mac Book, Mac Mini, iPod, iPhone, Time Capsule, etc. It just doesn't fit with their simplicity model.
I think that they are going to have to go SATA at some point, but that could be a stealth upgrade. If they are shooting for 1080p, they might need to upgrade their processor. I foresee incremental upgrades in the software as well. Unless they have a great new idea we won't see anything more dramatic that additional codecs and small applications like YouTube.
I think if there is going to be any mention of the AppleTV next month, most of this week be happening. It seriously needs a capacity increase to keep up with the new HD trend, maybe just drop the 40gig and just have one at 160gig. As far as software, it will need to be something "Big" to warrant time during the presentation. My bet is on Apps and an SDK, and as others have suggested, much improved inactivity between the iPhone/iPod Touch. There is so much potential past just being a remote. It's similar to the potential of the DS/Wii and the PSP/PS3, with really the PSP/PS3 being pushed the most.
Apple are likely to update the hardware just to get the BOM down to a reasonable price. Now that they competing with that $99 netflix box i could envisage $199 AppleTV using an ARM variant rather than dothan.
They'll probably keep the 40Gig or make an incremental upgrade to 60GB.
Hopefully there will not be a stupid white remote in the box, rather the wii like pointer remote that's been talked about. Character entry would be either soft keyboard on screen or ipod touch, txt entry would be minimised via bookmark syncing.
On the software side there'll be safari with flash and the appletv variety of widgets in order to natively support hulu, iplayer and their ilk. What would be really cool is if these widgets can appear above another media stream, sorta like picture in picture so you can keep an eye on something.
Oh and if they know what's good fer em, it'll allow you to switch off the itunes store menu options or at least stick them at the bottom of each media list.
M.
They'll probably keep the 40Gig or make an incremental upgrade to 60GB.
Hopefully there will not be a stupid white remote in the box, rather the wii like pointer remote that's been talked about. Character entry would be either soft keyboard on screen or ipod touch, txt entry would be minimised via bookmark syncing.
On the software side there'll be safari with flash and the appletv variety of widgets in order to natively support hulu, iplayer and their ilk. What would be really cool is if these widgets can appear above another media stream, sorta like picture in picture so you can keep an eye on something.
Oh and if they know what's good fer em, it'll allow you to switch off the itunes store menu options or at least stick them at the bottom of each media list.
M.
Oh and can i just re-iterate my hatred for the white remote one last time.
This is the worst, thought out and implemented piece of cr*pola Apple produces. The number of mis***** and non-responses i've gotten out this little glob of dung have relegated it to the box 101 of gadgetry.
I now use a Logitech harmony one.
M.
This is the worst, thought out and implemented piece of cr*pola Apple produces. The number of mis***** and non-responses i've gotten out this little glob of dung have relegated it to the box 101 of gadgetry.
I now use a Logitech harmony one.
M.
Really, you can't think of anything? How about the iPhone becoming a controller for Apple TV games...
Maybe, pretty doubltful though.
TV still doesn't exist in isolation of iTunes library or iTunes Store.. so I just don't see Apple positioning aTV as a server to remote iPhones, at least not before they start supporting it from iTunes. There is also a question of quality user experience streaming Video over cell networks, particularly where 3G isn't available. Apple is not about to offer something that will jeopardise user experience.. Which is why I think Apple will continue relegating "remote iPhone streaming" functionality to obscure/3rd-party software for the foreseeable future.
A controller for Apple TV games that don't exist? No, I couldn't think of that one sorry
And even if they did spin off aTV as a gaming platform - I don't see iPhone being a good game controller.. Controlling games over WiFi would result in pretty poor gaming experience, due to WiFi high latency not suitable for "fast twitch" gaming.. Apple would be more likely to release a dedicated gaming controller, perhaps something similar to Wiimote.
While I'd love PVR functionality, 1080p capability, a larger HDD, Blu Ray, etc. in the Apple TV, what I'd really love to see are some changes to iTunes. Namely, make a version of iTunes that isn't a resource hog, that doesn't slow my entire system down, and that doesn't get bogged down when I scroll through my library. AND MAKE MY PODCAST SUBSCRIPTIONS SYNC BETWEEN MULTIPLE COMPUTERS!!!!! Seriously, it can't be that hard to do this.
A controller for Apple TV games that don't exist? No, I couldn't think of that one sorry
And even if they did spin off aTV as a gaming platform - I don't see iPhone being a good game controller.. Controlling games over WiFi would result in pretty poor gaming experience, due to WiFi high latency not suitable for "fast twitch" gaming.. Apple would be more likely to release a dedicated gaming controller, perhaps something similar to Wiimote.
No, I think that would be a good idea. Putting games on the TV would be cool. And they could use Bluetooth To connect the iPhone as a controller, and a 30 pin connector to use the iPod Touch. It could be pretty cool. An TV app store...
Yeah, except that aTV has no built-in Bluetooth hardware.. so you're talking about a lot of stuff that doesn't exist.
If Apple DID implement the system, I certainly would see it as a more "casual" gaming platform, sort of like the iPhone is to the PSP or Nintendo DS. True, the processor in the Apple TV isn't going to be able to handle graphics like the PS3 does, but I wouldn't say iPhones and iPods couldn't work as controllers over WiFi, especially with games similar to the Wii's "Cookin Mama" or the App Store's "Enigmo".
That said, have you ever used Apple's "Remote" application (from the app store) to control you Apple TV? There's no discernable delay between the time you issue a command and the time the Apple TV responds.
If Apple got really serious about the prospect, they could also come out with new hardware, but I don't see that as likely given the major undertaking that would be for a product Apple still calls "a hobby".
I just don't see the iPhone being a controller for a gaming platform. It just doesn't make sense - they might as well just sell another controller or two - they have the patents. Also, if the ATV became a gaming console, that would kinda defeat the purpose of it being the Apple "TV", wouldn't it? If Apple wants in on the gaming console market, they will have a whole new product. Maybe it will include what we now know as the ATV, but it won't be the ATV.
For the most part, Apple is all about "focus". ATV is like that. Just like most of the products in the product line. Don't look for them to pile on too much...
For the most part, Apple is all about "focus". ATV is like that. Just like most of the products in the product line. Don't look for them to pile on too much...
Hardware updates
Software updates
I think an app store is inevitable, but probably won't be available in January, although I could see an SDK released.
- bigger HDDs
- new remote similar to 4G nano (sans screen/drive)
Software updates
- Access to Picasa Web Albums
- HD movie purchases
- Customizable menu like current iPods
- Wish lists for Music (similar to movies)
- Captions in Photos
- Just for you recommendations in store
I think an app store is inevitable, but probably won't be available in January, although I could see an SDK released.
Yeah, I use Remote.app all the time, but there're completely different requirements between controlling media playback versus controlling gameplay.. WiFi latency (typically 1.5ms - 3ms) is perfectly acceptable for media remote control.. but it will make controlling fast-paced games a miserable experience. So you really need Bluetooth or IR for decent game control.
That aside, I don't understand why anyone would WANT to use iPhone as a game controller. Without hard buttons, I just don't see the big attraction in iPhone as a game joystick. I know I may be in minority here, but I find iPhone to be a lousy gaming platform to begin with.. and I am talking games designed for iPhone. So iPhone as a game controller just makes no sense, sorry.
Hardware updates
- bigger HDDs
- new remote similar to 4G nano (sans screen/drive)
Software updates
- Access to Picasa Web Albums
- HD movie purchases
- Customizable menu like current iPods
- Wish lists for Music (similar to movies)
- Captions in Photos
- Just for you recommendations in
I think an app store is inevitable, but probably won't be available in January, although I could see an SDK released.
I agree with all your predictions.
The click wheel could live on as a remote. Entering text is painful with the current method. They could build a simple WiFi remote with a click wheel. A screen could still be there to be able to control your tv from any room with access to the network.
Just for you recommendations are welcome. My girlfriend and I always have such a hard time finding good movies to watch on tv, not because there aren't good movies on iTunes but because the selections in the tv Movies store main screen aren't representative of what we like.
Tonight, we went on RottenTomatoes.com, searched for movies with over 90% rating and then went to the tv and found dozens of movies that we want to watch. I think we bookmarked over 20. If tv could learn what movies we like and recommend them to us in a dedicated screen, that would make the experience so much better.
The current menu is being outgrown. There are too many menu items to fit in the two sided box that appeared in Take 2. They should revert back to the old school iPod tiered menu. A click wheel remote would work perfectly for that setup.
This is why I don't think the iPhone/iPod Touch would be a good controller. They work well for games on their own screen because you are looking down at your fingers. When you are looking at the tv, you would have no clue where you need to press to hit the "button". I can only see something really crude like splitting the iPhone screen in two, one for each thumb and using the accelerometers to control the game on the tv screen; anything more complicated would require looking at the controller which is just bad.