Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

vingochr

macrumors member
Original poster
Feb 21, 2011
30
0
Sounds like you should go for the Pro then.

The SL9600, which the most powerful C2D being used in the 2010 MBAir, draws 17 W - while most of the i5 SB notebook processors draw 35 W (except for the 1.4 GHz one with only 17 W). If you need a SB i5 CPU to take care of your computing needs, you should go for the MBPro and not wait for the next Air.

Mate, other than for cost, I don't know why anyone would favour an i5 over an i7. If you can wait for the MBA refresh, it should definitely be worth it. The i3/i5/i7 differences on mobile SB CPUs are:-
•i3s & i5s are all 3MB Level 3 cache
•i7s have 4-8MB Level 3 cache
•all are at least dual core
•all are dual threads per core
•only i7s are quad core
•i5/i7s have turbo, i3s don't
•for ULV SB CPUs, i5s have lower turbo
•i7 brand has CPUs in every TDP category and is the only of i3/i5/i7 in 25W, 45W and 55W categories
•i7 is always fastest CPU in category
 

torbjoern

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,204
6
The Black Lodge
Mate, other than for cost, I don't know why anyone would favour an i5 over an i7. If you can wait for the MBA refresh, it should definitely be worth it. The i3/i5/i7 differences on mobile SB CPUs are:-
•i3s & i5s are all 3MB Level 3 cache
•i7s have 4-8MB Level 3 cache
•all are at least dual core
•all are dual threads per core
•only i7s are quad core
•i5/i7s have turbo, i3s don't
•for ULV SB CPUs, i5s have lower turbo
•i7 brand has CPUs in every TDP category and is the only of i3/i5/i7 in 25W, 45W and 55W categories
•i7 is always fastest CPU in category

I'm not sure if I would care for such a power-hungry CPU when a major bottle-neck has already been removed (HDD out, SSD in). But of course - as long as the Air would keep the same or better battery capacity, I would certainly not mind an i5 (or i7) in it. I just don't find that very realistic at the current point.
 

hleewell

macrumors 6502a
Oct 22, 2009
544
62
Seriously, the mba is not a gaming rig lol.

I'm looking for the better power consumption and less heat out of 1 chip.

Prepare to be surprised :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFXwJQE-xqE
11 inch MacBook Air Gaming: Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare (2010)
on 1.4 Ghz model

Are you impressed yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3jXkWDS4q0&feature=related
Crysis Running on a MacBook Air (Windows 7 Gaming) on 11.6 MBA 1.6Ghz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAR-M02AjZw&feature=related
Gaming on MAB 11.6

Etc etc...

I am sure Apple did not intend MBA to be a gaming laptop but then again
look at what it could do. It's a tiny miracle
 

FluJunkie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2007
618
1
great...the extra power will open up a business app in a zillionth of a second...we need that in a 11" portable.

I know ur coding and film editing on an 11 inch screen on the go all day.and you need the juice.

Why is it that everyone assumes that it's film editing and other visual tasks people are wanting more processor power for?
 

stevensr123

macrumors 6502
Apr 22, 2010
354
0
I was actually thinking about getting MacBook air , but after seeing the huge performance boost of the MacBook pro's via sandy bridge. Plus the huge potential of thunderbolt, I'm guessing it worth waiting for months until the air gets an "upgrade".

I'm after a computer that can run autocad via windows, the current air is probably good enough but meh gonna have to wait
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
I would certainly not mind an i5 (or i7) in it. I just don't find that very realistic at the current point.

There are no LV or ULV i3s. There is only one i5 ULV (i5-2537M), the rest are i7s.

If I had to make a prediction, it would be i5-2537M for 11.6" and i7-2657M as BTO, and i7-2629M in 13" with BTO for i7-2649M.
 

Hallivand

macrumors regular
Aug 26, 2010
195
20
Sydney, Australia
For everyone saying the new Core CPU's would boost battery life and such, lets look at how their doing in the latest refresh.

Last time I checked, the 13" Macbook Pro WITHOUT any extra graphics chip, as everything is integrated into the CPU lost 3 hours of battery....back to 2009 levels. Same story with its larger siblings, with the new AMD GPU's. All significantly lower battery scores.

I was really hoping for 11/12 hours, and I'd upgrade my own 2009 Macbook Pro 13" once they are at 16 hours :D which looked pretty plausible at the rate they were going.

So betting for better battery in the next rev Macbook Air's? Unlikely. Maintaining the same runtime? Possible.
Reduction of mobile life at the expense of everyones demands? Of course.

Its a 11/13" laptop people, anyone disregarding battery life on something so mobile shouldn't be buying one.
 

FluJunkie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2007
618
1
Because processing power in the i7 magnitude is over-rated for most other tasks.

And yet rather than say, asking what might need that kind of processing power, any excitement for it gets squashed by "You can't do visual stuff on a screen that small".

Very, very tired of people treating "Pro" or "Performance" as a shorthand for "I do video editing".

a SB MBA would be...very interesting to me. Work doesn't involve huge files, but does involve processor-intensive tasks. For the amount I travel, the smallish screen would be offset by its light weight and small form-factor. It could be a great supplement to the workstation. But its tiresome to see everything assumed to be either "I run Office and Mail" or "I need Final Cut Pro", with nothing in between, or no other possible tasks.
 

torbjoern

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,204
6
The Black Lodge
There are no LV or ULV i3s. There is only one i5 ULV (i5-2537M), the rest are i7s.

If I had to make a prediction, it would be i5-2537M for 11.6" and i7-2657M as BTO, and i7-2629M in 13" with BTO for i7-2649M.
Those i7 processors draw 25 W, and would easily reduce the battery life of the MBAir 13" down to less than 5 hours. Is it really worth it?
 

torbjoern

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,204
6
The Black Lodge
And yet rather than say, asking what might need that kind of processing power, any excitement for it gets squashed by "You can't do visual stuff on a screen that small".

Very, very tired of people treating "Pro" or "Performance" as a shorthand for "I do video editing".

a SB MBA would be...very interesting to me. Work doesn't involve huge files, but does involve processor-intensive tasks. For the amount I travel, the smallish screen would be offset by its light weight and small form-factor. It could be a great supplement to the workstation. But its tiresome to see everything assumed to be either "I run Office and Mail" or "I need Final Cut Pro", with nothing in between, or no other possible tasks.

You can certainly do visual stuff on a 1440x900 display even if it's only 13 inches. So what kind of tasks are you planning to use the power of the i5/i7-SB-MBAir for if it's not Logic, Final Cut Pro or [insert-your-favourite-game-here] ?
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
Those i7 processors draw 25 W, and would easily reduce the battery life of the MBAir 13" down to less than 5 hours. Is it really worth it?

The 25W includes the IGP. Add another ~4W for the PCH and you got everything. Current LV C2D + 320M combo draws about the same [17W for CPU + 10-20W for 320M (the TDP has not been released. Wikipedia says 20W but that sounds high compared to 9400M's 12W)]. Besides, that 25W is the maximum power draw in normal circumstances. The idle power draw is much, much less. 45W quads are more efficient when idling than 25W C2Ds according to Anand's tests.
 

torbjoern

macrumors 65816
Jun 9, 2009
1,204
6
The Black Lodge
The 25W includes the IGP. Add another ~4W for the PCH and you got everything. Current LV C2D + 320M combo draws about the same [17W for CPU + 10-20W for 320M (the TDP has not been released. Wikipedia says 20W but that sounds high compared to 9400M's 12W)]. Besides, that 25W is the maximum power draw in normal circumstances. The idle power draw is much, much less. 45W quads are more efficient when idling than 25W C2Ds according to Anand's tests.

So can you explain to me why the recent 13" MBPros have 30 % less battery capacity than the 2010 model if it's not the processor? Is it the Intel IGP that draws the extra juice from the battery? If so, I don't see why this makes any difference. If the next MBAir comes with SB, what kind of IGP do you expect it to come with?
 

Hellhammer

Moderator emeritus
Dec 10, 2008
22,164
582
Finland
So can you explain to me why the recent 13" MBPros have 30 % less battery capacity than the 2010 model if it's not the processor? Is it the Intel IGP that draws the extra juice from the battery? If so, I don't see why this makes any difference. If the next MBAir comes with SB, what kind of IGP do you expect it to come with?

Apple changed their battery tests. Take a look at the MacBook, it used to have 10-hour battery before Thursday but Apple changed it to 7 hours, and there were no hardware changes. Most people never achieved that 10-hour battery life even with normal light usage. The new reported battery life is just more realistic due to the improved tests.
 

eddieaus

macrumors regular
Feb 19, 2009
134
119
i can't stand my 1st gen air anymore, it always gets hot, loud and slow. hopefully the new air can come sooner than June, and with backlit keyboard;)
 

Hallivand

macrumors regular
Aug 26, 2010
195
20
Sydney, Australia
Apple changed their battery tests. Take a look at the MacBook, it used to have 10-hour battery before Thursday but Apple changed it to 7 hours, and there were no hardware changes. Most people never achieved that 10-hour battery life even with normal light usage. The new reported battery life is just more realistic due to the improved tests.

Thats what they said back in the 2009 refreshes, its just to cover up for the poorer power system. I still get around 7 hours of battery out of my '09 macbook pro 13", with many users reporting up to 10 hours or more with last years revision.

I call BS on Apple's claim.
 

vingochr

macrumors member
Original poster
Feb 21, 2011
30
0
There are no LV or ULV i3s. There is only one i5 ULV (i5-2537M), the rest are i7s.

If I had to make a prediction, it would be i5-2537M for 11.6" and i7-2657M as BTO, and i7-2629M in 13" with BTO for i7-2649M.

Thanks for seconding what I said initially for three of your predictions, I went with Apple going for the i7s in all MBAs for similar costs. If they went for those CPUs for the 11", it could reduce the price of the 11" MBA.

Current 1k unit price for the C2D processors are $262, $289 ($27 diff) for the 11" and $284, $316 ($32 diff) for the 13". If Apple simply replaced the CPU & iGP, they would have slightly more money for the SB CPU as it is combined. The CPUs I predicted for the MBAs were i7-2617M 1.5GHz ($289) and i7-2657M 1.6GHz ($317) at 17W for the 11" MBAs ($28 diff). For the 13" MBAs, I went with the i7-2629M 2.1 GHz ($311) and the i7-2649M 2.3GHz ($346) at 25W ($35 diff). This is about $30 increase in CPU price, so if the 310M iGP costs a lot more to Apple, it could mean lower MacBook Air prices all round, or larger standard SSDs (more likely)

Additionally, Apple have been offering better value CPU upgrades for the SB platform. If anyone actually bought the 2.8GHz i7 (640M) 15"/17" MacBook Pro released 20th Oct 2010, they paid $200 for something which was only worth $14 more ($346 compared to $332) and was barely faster than the 2.66GHz i7 (620M), $186 for Apple to install it (93% of the cost)! This time the 2.2GHz quad core i7 (2720QM) to the 2.3GHz quad core i7 (2820QM) is a $250 upgrade with the actual price difference at $190 ($568 compared to $378), a small upgrade again, but with $60 for Apple to install it (24% of total cost), it's a much better value-for-component-price upgrade if nothing else.

Finally, Apple has really helped Intel to save face and launch itself back into the forefront of performance with its SB mobile processors as well as showcase its new I/O technology. I'm sure if Intel were going to give reduced component prices to anyone, it'd definitely be Apple. That can only mean one thing to me, "SB all round please"

Those i7 processors draw 25 W, and would easily reduce the battery life of the MBAir 13" down to less than 5 hours. Is it really worth it?

Sorry mate, only the XXX9M SB mobile CPUs have TDP of 25W, all XXX7M SB mobile CPUs have a TDP of 17W, both the i5 and the i7s. Let's clarify what Hellhammer said earlier, TDP is Thermal Design Power and is the maximum power of the combined CPU/iGP. In light-use, SB processors are much more efficient than their C2D cousins, so we expect to see better power usage then too.

Taking into account the saving of 4-5W of maximum TDP, the reduction of fan usage (not as hot so less power needed for fans) and the light-use efficiency of the SB chips, expect to see much better battery-life if these SB CPUs are adopted in the new MBAs.

Because processing power in the i7 magnitude is over-rated for most other tasks.

Mostly true, ULV i7s; i7-2617M 1.5GHz and i7-2657M 1.6GHz at 17W, are only better than the 35W i5 processors in efficiency, as the i5 35W CPUs are more powerful and have higher clocked HD 3000 iGPs. i7 doesn't always mean faster, it's only always faster compared to other i3/i5s in same TDP category. The 35W i3-2310M 2.1GHz on the other hand has no turbo, so will be beat by almost all ULV (17W) and LV (25W) i5/i7s

Thats what they said back in the 2009 refreshes, its just to cover up for the poorer power system. I still get around 7 hours of battery out of my '09 macbook pro 13", with many users reporting up to 10 hours or more with last years revision.

I call BS on Apple's claim.

Mate, not so sure about that one. New 13" MBPs are ~2W lighter on max TDP and SB CPUs are much better at reducing power in light-use. I'd expect to see similar battery-life for performance use but better battery for normal use. We'll see when they get tested...

It's (almost) impossible to compare your battery-life with anyone else's unless you do exactly the same thing
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DarwinOSX

macrumors 68000
Nov 3, 2009
1,659
193
No. The SB procs produce less heat than previous versions. Also newsflash, there are two gpu's in the MBP.

Well, me too. Unfortunately Apple decided to take the "more power, more heat" in the latest MBP series, so they might do the same in the MBA (I hope not).

While many applaud the quad core chips in the new MBPs, I'm staying away from the MBPs for exactly that reason, as I really don't want a 45W CPU plus discrete GPU burning my lap. It might be a nice desktop replacement, but the 15/17" MBP is not a laptop anymore.

Let's hope the MBA refresh is decent and available soon.
 

KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,311
8,326
Thats what they said back in the 2009 refreshes, its just to cover up for the poorer power system. I still get around 7 hours of battery out of my '09 macbook pro 13", with many users reporting up to 10 hours or more with last years revision.

I call BS on Apple's claim.

This tester is getting better battery results with the 2011 MBP than the 2010 version.

http://www.techyalert.com/

Apple changed their tests when they introduced the latest MacBook Air. I'm surprised they didn't recalibrate the results for their whole notebook line at the time, but instead they waited until this release.
 

wisty

macrumors regular
Feb 18, 2009
219
0
Thats what they said back in the 2009 refreshes, its just to cover up for the poorer power system. I still get around 7 hours of battery out of my '09 macbook pro 13", with many users reporting up to 10 hours or more with last years revision.

I call BS on Apple's claim.

No. The old "10 hour" claims were BS. Apple loaded up Safari (to a blank page) and Word (to a black page), dimmed the screen, then let it sit doing nothing for 10 hours. Or some BS test like that.

The new 7 hour claims are solid. People actually get up to 10 hours by dimming the screens a bit, which is better than the old models.
 

FluJunkie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 17, 2007
618
1
You can certainly do visual stuff on a 1440x900 display even if it's only 13 inches. So what kind of tasks are you planning to use the power of the i5/i7-SB-MBAir for if it's not Logic, Final Cut Pro or [insert-your-favourite-game-here] ?

Custom coded numerical integration of large systems of differential equations.
Processor intensive simulations and data crunching/manipulation.

Things where "How fast does my processor do math" directly relates to "How fast will I be done?"
 

ntrigue

macrumors 68040
Jul 30, 2007
3,805
4
I think SandyBridge MBA will come right after Back to School ends with Thunderbolt and 320M equivalent.
 

vingochr

macrumors member
Original poster
Feb 21, 2011
30
0
There are no LV or ULV i3s. There is only one i5 ULV (i5-2537M), the rest are i7s.

If I had to make a prediction, it would be i5-2537M for 11.6" and i7-2657M as BTO, and i7-2629M in 13" with BTO for i7-2649M.

Looking over what I've said before, I take back all I said about all the MBAs being i7 dual-core. It makes more sense for the entry-level MBA to be an i5, just how the entry-level MBP is. Also, Apple don't seem to really reflect too precisely the CPU price in the overall price of the computers, but prefer 'nice' numbers. In the UK, we had a recent sales tax increase of 2.5% (20% now, daylight robbery!), and so the prices on the Apple Store were slightly more. With the MBP refresh, the entry-level MBP is back at £999.

Also, the average consumer doesn't really know or care much about the difference in i5 and i7 CPUs or even the amount of level 3 cache. They are aware of the slightly superficial clock speeds so a 200MHz increase for both the 11" and 13" MBP would make a lot more sense.

(All CPUs 2C/4T with HD 3000 IGP)
11" MBP:
entry CPU i5-2537M 1.4GHz 3M L3 17W
(upgrade CPU i7-2617M 1.5GHz 4M L3 17W)
ultimate CPU i7-2657M 1.6GHz 4M L3 17W

13" MBP:
entry CPU i7-2629M 2.1GHz 4M L3 25W
ultimate CPU i7-2649M 2.3GHz 4M L3 25W
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.