MBA Sandy Bridge CPUs

[iRun26.2]

Not everyone is an expert...

Second that, I don't understand why people will say 320M is a discrete GPU

I can understand how people get it mixed up...I misunderstood it at first. I didn't understand that it referred to shared memory. I thought that since it was a discrete chip (as in separate, not integrated into the CPU) that it was, in fact, 'discrete'.

Now I understand that a discrete GPU uses its own memory.

(At least I think I now have it right...)

 

[pnyx]

Second that, I don't understand why people will say 320M is a discrete GPU

Not all chipsets are made equal.

 

[Peacemaker]

Not all chipsets are made equal.

True

 

[Scottsdale]

Well, Apple had no problems using the Intel HD 3000 in 13" MacBook Pro so it should be a no-brainer for MBA.

Maybe you should see the Foxconn factories where MBAs are made before you start saying what is ethical and what isn't. Business is business and only profit matters. No matter how unethical Intel's choices are, it doesn't give us any extra options. A perfect chip won't suddenly fall out of the sky.

Apple also used a low resolution display in the 13" MB "PRO!"

I would prefer Apple use a low voltage AMD discrete GPU or an AMD combo CPU GPU or even next generation APU models it's working on.

To those discussing the 320m, if it was a discrete GPU Apple could use it with the Sandy Bridge CPUs. Since it's integrated and also I the chipset Apple cannot use it with SB.

The thing is when considering voltage AMD has some great low voltage GPUs that use less power than the 320m that Apple can pair with SB. If Apple can find space for a Thunderbolt chip it can use a discrete low voltage GPU. I believe most of us would be much better off with discrete GPU than Thunderbolt port.

Apple has used Intel's SB in the 13" MBP because it has to and it hopes the CPU benchmarks help people forget the IGP lack of performance. In addition, you and many others keep forgetting how the IGP works and the great difference in it between the different voltage and clock speeds even though it's still labeled the same HD3000.

I just hope I cannot prove anyone wrong about the nightmare waiting with Intel's IGP in the MBA because that will mean Apple did it. I really don't believe Apple can use it in the MBA BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE SAME SPEED AND PERFORMANCE AS THE IGP IN THE 13" MBP. You really need to check the logic in your argument because you're assuming the IGP will perform the same in the low and ultra low voltage Sandy Bridge chips as it does in the 35W CPU used in the 13" MBP.

In addition, Apple hasn't upgraded the MBA frequently nor followed a set schedule in the past. Given that and the fact that Ivy Bridge brings closer performance to Nvidia's GPUs I think skipping SB is right for the MBA. I hope Apple doesn't stick us with the SB IGP and I don't believe Apple has or will give up on alternatives to SB for the MBA.

 

[Peacemaker]

Apple also used a low resolution display in the 13" MB "PRO!"

I would prefer Apple use a low voltage AMD discrete GPU or an AMD combo CPU GPU or even next generation APU models it's working on.

To those discussing the 320m, if it was a discrete GPU Apple could use it with the Sandy Bridge CPUs. Since it's integrated and also I the chipset Apple cannot use it with SB.

The thing is when considering voltage AMD has some great low voltage GPUs that use less power than the 320m that Apple can pair with SB. If Apple can find space for a Thunderbolt chip it can use a discrete low voltage GPU. I believe most of us would be much better off with discrete GPU than Thunderbolt port.

Apple has used Intel's SB in the 13" MBP because it has to and it hopes the CPU benchmarks help people forget the IGP lack of performance. In addition, you and many others keep forgetting how the IGP works and the great difference in it between the different voltage and clock speeds even though it's still labeled the same HD3000.

I just hope I cannot prove anyone wrong about the nightmare waiting with Intel's IGP in the MBA because that will mean Apple did it. I really don't believe Apple can use it in the MBA BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE SAME SPEED AND PERFORMANCE AS THE IGP IN THE 13" MBP. You really need to check the logic in your argument because you're assuming the IGP will perform the same in the low and ultra low voltage Sandy Bridge chips as it does in the 35W CPU used in the 13" MBP.

In addition, Apple hasn't upgraded the MBA frequently nor followed a set schedule in the past. Given that and the fact that Ivy Bridge brings closer performance to Nvidia's GPUs I think skipping SB is right for the MBA. I hope Apple doesn't stick us with the SB IGP and I don't believe Apple has or will give up on alternatives to SB for the MBA.

Although your concerns are legitmate, i think it is real hard for apple to skip SB because core 2 duo has discontinued. Unless apple has huge supplies of core 2 duo chips, I doubt they can last till ivy bridge.

 

[Hellhammer]

I would prefer Apple use a low voltage AMD discrete GPU or an AMD combo CPU GPU or even next generation APU models it's working on.

Will there be APUs that are suitable for both MBAs? And when will they be released? The issue I have with people who talk about AMD is that they are basing their speculation on their own guessing. I haven't seen a single piece of news providing info about the TDPs and other specs. You are just assuming there will be chips suitable for MBAs.

Also, going AMD for just one Mac doesn't make much sense since Apple would have to write drivers for whole new chipsets.

Llano would be great if it's suitable but I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.

Apple has used Intel's SB in the 13" MBP because it has to and it hopes the CPU benchmarks help people forget the IGP lack of performance.

Apple can do the same with MBA.

I just hope I cannot prove anyone wrong about the nightmare waiting with Intel's IGP in the MBA because that will mean Apple did it. I really don't believe Apple can use it in the MBA BECAUSE IT'S NOT THE SAME SPEED AND PERFORMANCE AS THE IGP IN THE 13" MBP. You really need to check the logic in your argument because you're assuming the IGP will perform the same in the low and ultra low voltage Sandy Bridge chips as it does in the 35W CPU used in the 13" MBP.

Now was 9400M, it was underclocked. I'm pretty sure the 320M is as well, at least in the 11".

 

[thunng8]

Now was 9400M, it was underclocked. I'm pretty sure the 320M is as well, at least in the 11".

Nope, 11" 320M is not underclocked at all. Shows 450/950Mhz clock speeds .. exactly same as the 2010 13" macbook Pro

 

[Hellhammer]

Nope, 11" 320M is not underclocked at all. Shows 450/950Mhz clock speeds .. exactly same as the 2010 13" macbook Pro

Source? I haven't seen any GPU-Z screenshots of it

 

[Scottsdale]

Source? I haven't seen any GPU-Z screenshots of it

You normally are right on mark, but I really think you're missing it with the problems of SB IGP. I think you and many others are hopeful and optimistic but not realistic when it comes down To Intel, SB, and the differences between the IGP even when labeled the same. I hope Apple does the right thing for all of us and believe they can use the MBA to forge the future of Macs rather than just have it follow the 13" MBP. I also think it's wrong to expect updates in the MBA in less than eight months when even the MBPs are nearly on year long cycles. I have been an MBA fan since the beginning, and it's not easy to be a fan with unreliable update cycles.

 

[thunng8]

Source? I haven't seen any GPU-Z screenshots of it

I checked it myself when I had an 11" air (don't have it anymore).

Anand's review of the 11" air also mentions the 450/950Mhz number as well:

http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index...ug=apples-2010-macbook-air-11-13inch-reviewed

You can see the 11" air is slower the 13" macbook pro, most likely held back by the memory bandwidth (800mhz vs 1066mhz) and bottlenecked by the low CPU speed.

Barefeats also mentions they run at same clock speed:
http://barefeats.com/mbpp30.html

 

[White Apple]

My only concern is the heat and noise issue on SB MBA. Anyone can answer me on that?

 

[Hellhammer]

You normally are right on mark, but I really think you're missing it with the problems of SB IGP. I think you and many others are hopeful and optimistic but not realistic when it comes down To Intel, SB, and the differences between the IGP even when labeled the same. I hope Apple does the right thing for all of us and believe they can use the MBA to forge the future of Macs rather than just have it follow the 13" MBP. I also think it's wrong to expect updates in the MBA in less than eight months when even the MBPs are nearly on year long cycles. I have been an MBA fan since the beginning, and it's not easy to be a fan with unreliable update cycles.

I would consider myself as a realistic. I have seen the benchmarks and I am well aware of the fact that it is indeed slower than the 320M. Still, that didn't stop Apple from using it in the 13" MBP and it won't stop them from using it in the MBA, even though the LV and ULV versions are even slower. I'm not saying the IGP is good or something that I would love to have but seriously, I can't see much other options. Whining about Intel's unethical business models won't suddenly bring us a NVidia IGP.

In the end, MBA's user base does not consist of heavy users so the Intel IGP will be fine, just like the current C2D is. Apple sold over one million MBAs in Q4, even though some people and reviewers complained about using the ancient CPUs. Performance is not the point of MBA. I agree with you that it is plausible that Apple will just wait for Ivy Bridge, as long as they have enough C2Ds to keep the supplies steady.

AMD is feasible but I don't want to overfeed myself with hoping. Even if Llano was as good as it looks like it will be, there are other issues as well. AMD's development has been much slower and unbalanced compared to Intel. Plus, it looks like Apple will add Thunderbolt to every Mac and that requires an Intel chipset. It's possible and actually, I wish Apple offered Macs with AMD but I can't see this happening.

I just think you are hoping too much and see MBA as a more important product for Apple than it really is. I saw your hopes for iX + discrete GPU combo before the last update and it didn't happen. Why would it happen this year? Even if it is possible in terms of space and thermals, it doesn't mean that it will happen. Apple followed the 13" MBP in the previous update and my guess is that they will do it again this year.

If the update is better than what I expect it to be, then great. However, I'm not going to feed myself with over-hoping. It's better to be positively surprised than disappointed.

I checked it myself when I had an 11" air (don't have it anymore).

Anand's review of the 11" air also mentions the 450/950Mhz number as well:

http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index...ug=apples-2010-macbook-air-11-13inch-reviewed

You can see the 11" air is slower the 13" macbook pro, most likely held back by the memory bandwidth (800mhz vs 1066mhz) and bottlenecked by the low CPU speed.

Barefeats also mentions they run at same clock speed:
http://barefeats.com/mbpp30.html

Hmmm, that's odd. I was certain that it would be underclocked. Nice to see that it isn't though.

 

[alexandero]

My only concern is the heat and noise issue on SB MBA. Anyone can answer me on that?

The first post in this thread should answer your question, as it lists all the expected TDPs.

 

[Hellhammer]

The first post in this thread should answer your question, as it lists all the expected TDPs.

TDP is not the only thing that matters. More important is the power usage at low CPU usage. You rarely achieve the TDP so that isn't much of an issue but if it runs hot all the time, that can be annoying.

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

SB was meant for the Air. I'm so bummed they aren't released yet!

 

[leftyMac]

SB was meant for the Air. I'm so bummed they aren't released yet!

June, man, June.

 

[Scottsdale]

June, man, June.

Us MBA fans have been there before and are often disappointed for quarters at a time.

I think we will see MacBook, iMac, Mac mini, Mac Pro updates all BEFORE the MBA gets updated again. I just don't think The June mark is well thought out by those predicting it. iPhone, all the other Macs, and knowing how slow and inconsistent Apple is with the MBA... I think October if SB but more likely January with Ivy Bridge.

 

[Peacemaker]

Us MBA fans have been there before and are often disappointed for quarters at a time.

I think we will see MacBook, iMac, Mac mini, Mac Pro updates all BEFORE the MBA gets updated again. I just don't think The June mark is well thought out by those predicting it. iPhone, all the other Macs, and knowing how slow and inconsistent Apple is with the MBA... I think October if SB but more likely January with Ivy Bridge.

I think the June date sounds logical because core 2 duo has been discontinued for a while. It maybe hard to make enough macbook airs to last till january in 2012.

Peacemaker

 

[joejoejoe]

Us MBA fans have been there before and are often disappointed for quarters at a time.

I think we will see MacBook, iMac, Mac mini, Mac Pro updates all BEFORE the MBA gets updated again. I just don't think The June mark is well thought out by those predicting it. iPhone, all the other Macs, and knowing how slow and inconsistent Apple is with the MBA... I think October if SB but more likely January with Ivy Bridge.

The most recent MBA's are a totally new generation of computers that Apple has marketed heavily and has benefited from heavily. The MBA's before were too expensive, lacked SSD's (as a standard), and weren't all that attractive for the consumer. The only reason anyone had to buy one was the thinness, and that's not something Apple had to release multiple updates to maintain.

The new MBA's, however, are fast, and way more affordable. If they are on track to replace normal Macbooks, which Apple basically stated when these were released in October, Apple's going to start treating them like Macbooks and update them more frequently. It's no longer just about the thinness and portability but also about the speed, and that's something Apple is going to have to update in order to keep up with the rest of the market.

We won't have long MBA cycles anymore, at least not until they make their way towards being viable enough to replace the Macbook altogether.

 

[Scottsdale]

The most recent MBA's are a totally new generation of computers that Apple has marketed heavily and has benefited from heavily. The MBA's before were too expensive, lacked SSD's (as a standard), and weren't all that attractive for the consumer. The only reason anyone had to buy one was the thinness, and that's not something Apple had to release multiple updates to maintain.

The new MBA's, however, are fast, and way more affordable. If they are on track to replace normal Macbooks, which Apple basically stated when these were released in October, Apple's going to start treating them like Macbooks and update them more frequently. It's no longer just about the thinness and portability but also about the speed, and that's something Apple is going to have to update in order to keep up with the rest of the market.

We won't have long MBA cycles anymore, at least not until they make their way towards being viable enough to replace the Macbook altogether.

Sounds like people are thinking with their hearts instead of brains. I have been there before. In addition, Intel is making C2D until October and hasn't discontinued it as some say.

I think a lot of people will be disappointed if they really think the MBA is getting updated in June. Apple used to update Mac models like MBP but even those are on one year cycles. In addition, Apple marketed the original MBA and loved it too.

Finally, the Intel chipsets are going to bring similar poor performance in low voltage models which Apple has to be concerned about. I predict a lot of disappointment in June even if it's updated with a downgraded graphics system.

 

[Peacemaker]

Sounds like people are thinking with their hearts instead of brains. I have been there before. In addition, Intel is making C2D until October and hasn't discontinued it as some say.

I think a lot of people will be disappointed if they really think the MBA is getting updated in June. Apple used to update Mac models like MBP but even those are on one year cycles. In addition, Apple marketed the original MBA and loved it too.

Finally, the Intel chipsets are going to bring similar poor performance in low voltage models which Apple has to be concerned about. I predict a lot of disappointment in June even if it's updated with a downgraded graphics system.

I see. I thought intel discountinued core 2 duo in october 2010 instead of october 2011. My apology for inaccurate information

 

[Blues003]

This is very interesting reading. My tendency is to think Apple will go i3 on the 11'', with the option of upgrading to i5, while going i5 on the 13'' with the option of upgrading to i7. But then again, I am a pessimist when it comes to Apple products.

I wonder if the Intel IGPs will start getting better.

 

[Hellhammer]

In addition, Intel is making C2D until October and hasn't discontinued it as some say.

Production was stopped on December 7th, 2010. The last order date is April 29th and all orders will be shipped until October 14th, 2011 though.

 

[Tibu]

First post:

The only thing that is keeping me from buying a MacBook Air is that it doesn't have a backlit keyboard and doesn't have any next gen I/O. I try to make my computer purchases as efficient as possible so that I at least get 3 years of good efficient use out of them. No USB 3.0 or thunderbolt is a real downer on the current MBA. Other than that, the current MBA has everything I need for an ultraportable.

I know the backlit keyboard feature may be quite a stretch, but if by the end of June/start of August there is no MBA refresh with at least USB 3.0 and/or Thunderbolt, I will probably be buying a Samsung 9 series to use for the duration of my law school studies which start in mid august.

 

[mutsaers-vr.nl]

So probably aug/sept will be the refresh of the MBA because they do not want to start to late to prevent not to be able to deliver MBA's anymore.

Production was stopped on December 7th, 2010. The last order date is April 29th and all orders will be shipped until October 14th, 2011 though.