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Mbox with ProTools LE for casual amateur recording or something else?

Originally posted by sedarby
The 6|2 has all RCA inputs and outputs. Be careful though because it has serious limitations. All will be revealed when you visit http://www.emagic.de/products/hw/emi62/index.php?lang=EN. Read carefully so you know exactly what you are getting. Personally, I would keep looking and probably look into the new firewire devices.
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am i missing something? i read everything there and it never really mentioned specifically the input types or how many simultaneous tracks that can be recorded. it only goes as far as saying that it is possible to track more than one input at a time.

i would love to go the firewire route but i'll be getting an external firewire hd soon, taking up my only fw port - unless i buy the new fw800 lacie drives.... does the 6|2 sound appropriate for what i want to do? i'm pretty much set on using logiic so it would be nice to have something specifually built for it. basically i'm looking for portable, yet functional. i tried the mbox but the 2 inputs were a little too limiting for my tastes (but just barely). the motu 828 is too big and is probbably overkill, and i hate the idea of using a big rack unit. any ideas??

thanks again
 
Originally posted by Peter Kim
am i missing something? i read everything there and it never really mentioned specifically the input types or how many simultaneous tracks that can be recorded. it only goes as far as saying that it is possible to track more than one input at a time.

i would love to go the firewire route but i'll be getting an external firewire hd soon, taking up my only fw port - unless i buy the new fw800 lacie drives.... does the 6|2 sound appropriate for what i want to do? i'm pretty much set on using logiic so it would be nice to have something specifually built for it. basically i'm looking for portable, yet functional. i tried the mbox but the 2 inputs were a little too limiting for my tastes (but just barely). the motu 828 is too big and is probbably overkill, and i hate the idea of using a big rack unit. any ideas??

thanks again
Click to expand...



Why don't you just get an adapter to put on your FW800 port? That should give you the firewire option you want for your i/o.:)
 
Originally posted by junior
Why don't you just get an adapter to put on your FW800 port? That should give you the firewire option you want for your i/o.:)
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i agree and also
check out the forums at www.osxaudio.com they are a pro logic site.
if you even mention cubase or dp or vst or bias or metro, rtas, or mas there be prepared to get flamed, but protools is safe. i am very careful there not to mention i use logic in os9 and cubase sl in osx, or i will be ridiculed to death, they should rename it logicaudio,com anyway they have a lot of logic users there that have tried almost every interface. it seems like the maudio firewire 410 at $299 i believe seems to fit your bill perfectly, but check users comments
 
really cheap

if you are on a really tite budget pick up the transit usb audio sound card 24/96 for under $100, along with some cable adapters and buy your own software program. if you are doing no midi you can use the demo of deck 3.5 for free or buy the 12 track $99 dollar version to get your feet wet. both emagic and steinberg have low cost bundles avail with instruments and daw for around $300 also
http://www.steinberg.net/en/ps/products/bundles/studio_case/index.php/

http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/transit/

logic big box
www.bias-inc.com
 
Originally posted by junior

Top studios won't connect the output from their SSL or Neve to anything else (in terms of software/hardware) because nothing else still can beat the quality on offer.
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We have a Neve and and SSL running into PT, but they get used more for the Fairlite system. I don't see the point of using such and old system, but they still sell well and get the job done. To suggest that only PT is competent is blind hero-worship.

There was a question about inputs on the 6|2, and I'd like to verify that they are RCA. I am surprised Emagic (it's not eMagic!) hasn't knocked out a new interface to make up for that. Sound quality is good, but even I have to agree that you'll be better off with a FW option.

Dan

edit - btw, the latency is not an issue - i'm usually surprised to hear even slight doubling when i record - that seems to be related to the audio engine in x, and is solved by resetting my drivers if my mac has been running for more than a couple days
 
This is a timely thread for me because I too am looking to get into a home solution with about the same budget. I have been researching this issue for some time and have talked with some fairly heavy hitters when it comes to pro audio. I have used Protools Free for about a year and have outgrown the 8 audio track limitation, so the natural question was whether to stick with Protools, or switch to something else. After talking to a friend who has used most major titles, his opinion echoed what I came up with on my own. We like Protools. He uses everything under the sun at work and uses a Digi001 at home.

For anyone looking to get out of their Digi001 setup, let me know.
 
Originally posted by alset
I am surprised Emagic (it's not eMagic!)
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sorry :rolleyes:

I was the one who used "eMagic," just figured sooner or later Jobs would gang up with Ives on emagic and say, "well, wouldn't it just look better with a lowercase 'e' and a capital 'M'"... at which point the Germans would get huffy and leave the room

Anyway, isn't it actually "emagic" (all lowercase) and not "Emagic" :D :D

(ok, I'm just getting nit picky... at least I'm not the guy who wrote "Euphonics" instead of "Euphonix" and then claimed that they produce only amps [I'm sorry, what's that they sell, oh yeah, consoles and recorders-- not amps :eek:] "EuPhonics" happens to be an audio software company out of Colorado who was bought by 3Com :confused: )

On a sidenote, I went to Digigram's website and saw that they're actively advertising cards compatible with the G5 (PCI X)... very interesting (said in my best German accent), though I didn't price them out
 
legion, that was one of the most entertaining posts I have seen in this thread. You will note that I didn't address "Legion." :)

Dan
 
Well, I just figured, if the shoe fits...

(I'm also one of those abhorred Mac users who refer to the operating system as Mac OS "Ex" not Mac OS "Ten." Everyone around me hates me for doing so, but you know what, I can't believe Apple will ever leave the "X" when it's time to move to Mac OS "Eleven." (At which point, Jobs will say it referred to the UNIX underpinnings all along...) Possibly the next will be Mac OS "Y"-- no, I guess that would just be bait for Mac critics to use in headlines.)

So what's the decision on the audio enthusiasts choice? Looking at the yamaha 01X, I really want to check it out. I've been using the DM2000 for some time and it sounds great (though there are some quirks) Both the Tascam and the Yamaha mentioned are missing items, but at least the Yamaha is easily upgradable to make up for deficiencies. When the Yamaha comes out, I'll be checking it out for the "tactile" senses-- it could make a great sub-$2K rig. I looked over the Metric Halo, but I'm not impressed for the price.

As for DigiDesign, I'll leave the sleeping giant alone while the smaller, more adventurous companies innovate and collaborate.
 
Originally posted by alset
We have a Neve and and SSL running into PT, but they get used more for the Fairlite system. I don't see the point of using such and old system, but they still sell well and get the job done. To suggest that only PT is competent is blind hero-worship.

There was a question about inputs on the 6|2, and I'd like to verify that they are RCA. I am surprised Emagic (it's not eMagic!) hasn't knocked out a new interface to make up for that. Sound quality is good, but even I have to agree that you'll be better off with a FW option.

Dan

edit - btw, the latency is not an issue - i'm usually surprised to hear even slight doubling when i record - that seems to be related to the audio engine in x, and is solved by resetting my drivers if my mac has been running for more than a couple days
Click to expand...



A fairlite system? Is this studio for MA and certain visual syncing purposes or or a pure audio recording studio? If it is only used for audio, what makes fairlight better than PT HD? I'm not nocking fairlite, because tons of MA studios I go to use it. Just very curious about its advantages that you guys might be getting from it. Would be very interesting to know.
By the way, what I said was not blind hero-worship. I was merely stating a fact that at least 95% of top studios use or have Pro Tools systems, and not just because of its compatibility. It sounds like the Microsoft figure :) but I dor one don't consider Pro Tools to be a Windows of this word. The software is simply great for audio. Midi is complete and utter cr*p.
 
Originally posted by legion
sorry :rolleyes:

I was the one who used "eMagic," just figured sooner or later Jobs would gang up with Ives on emagic and say, "well, wouldn't it just look better with a lowercase 'e' and a capital 'M'"... at which point the Germans would get huffy and leave the room

Anyway, isn't it actually "emagic" (all lowercase) and not "Emagic" :D :D

(ok, I'm just getting nit picky... at least I'm not the guy who wrote "Euphonics" instead of "Euphonix" and then claimed that they produce only amps [I'm sorry, what's that they sell, oh yeah, consoles and recorders-- not amps :eek:] "EuPhonics" happens to be an audio software company out of Colorado who was bought by 3Com :confused: )

On a sidenote, I went to Digigram's website and saw that they're actively advertising cards compatible with the G5 (PCI X)... very interesting (said in my best German accent), though I didn't price them out
Click to expand...


Yeah, you got me! I checked up on it later to embarassingly find out the mistake I made. My appologies on that particular point, though I still stand by my other points. Haha. Damn.:eek:
And sorry for the double post guys.
 
So what's the decision on the audio enthusiasts choice? Looking at the yamaha 01X, I really want to check it out. I've been using the DM2000 for some time and it sounds great (though there are some quirks) Both the Tascam and the Yamaha mentioned are missing items, but at least the Yamaha is easily upgradable to make up for deficiencies. When the Yamaha comes out, I'll be checking it out for the "tactile" senses-- it could make a great sub-$2K rig. I looked over the Metric Halo, but I'm not impressed for the price.

i thought the tascam was the most complete and upgadable between the yamaha 01X, tascam fw1884, and digi 002
the tascam has adat and 4 i/o midi and is the only one with add on fader modules, it lacks built in fx and lcd display, and software fx plugs, the digi 002 also gives you protools le
with the tascams low price you 4i/o midi you can get logic6.2/ bigbox/gold/plat,cubase se/sl/sx, dp4, and still come out cheaper. i am intersted in one of these all in ones so please let me know what the tascam is lacking cause it seems like the clear winner
 
avoid mbox

for those who are at least semi-serious, it looks like the mbox doesn't quite cut it. i was talking to someone who's used one and he pointed out something i hadn't thought of. because it's bus-powered, the pre-amps aren't able to draw enough juice to do their job.

the digi002, otoh, has a decent-size power supply. though digidesign doesn't officially say it, i believe it's well understood that they're using some decent focusrite preamps.

i'm still looking at the 002 rack, w/ a future expansion, via the digital i/o, of different preamps and converters fed through the digi.

e.g.
focusrite octopre
presonus digimax

edit: spelling on octopre
 
Originally posted by alset
edit - btw, the latency is not an issue - i'm usually surprised to hear even slight doubling when i record - that seems to be related to the audio engine in x, and is solved by resetting my drivers if my mac has been running for more than a couple days
Click to expand...

Are you talking about the 6|2, or a different hardware? I'm aware that PCI-based solutions usually don't have latency issues on OS X, but I'm just worried about USB hardware.
 
Originally posted by daveg5
seems like the maudio firewire 410 at $299 i believe seems to fit your bill perfectly
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip! A quick look at osxaudio.com definitely put it in the running. I'll continue digging and see what else I can find out about it. Looks like hardware + software which is definitely appealing to me, but I haven't heard anyone on this thread mention Maximum Audio Tools. Any thoughts?


Originally posted by crenz
Are you talking about the 6|2, or a different hardware? I'm aware that PCI-based solutions usually don't have latency issues on OS X, but I'm just worried about USB hardware.
Click to expand...

Yes, more info would be welcome. I saw on the emagic (didn't want to get that one wrong!) website they have a "software" solution built into Logic to attend to latency. But maybe it's not necessary?
 
Most higher-end software has "software" solutions for latency. emagic's implementation doesn't break any new ground, it's just that software compensation is no match for hardware (ie, or complete lack of latency from the get go.)

(In otherwords, minimize latency at all costs and don't rely on software otherwise you'll be disappointed)

Never used Maximum Audio Tools, so can't comment, but it appears to be shovelware compared to most audio software packages.

M-Audio also owns Propellerheads (Reason, reBirth, reCycle) and Ableton (Live). Both of these groups provide interesting beginner apps to work with (and later integrate into a solution that is less amateur.) I believe all of these products run ReWire interface. (I've only used Reason and Ableton Live and both are very easy to use and master)
 
a bit more

I'm not sure if I'm too late to come in on this and I'm sorry if I'm repeating what others have said (there were just two many posts to read them all) but I thought I'd add a couple of things.

The question you should ask yourself is what do you want to get out of this? I've used all the major audio software packages and at the end of the day I've discovered you get what you pay for. If what you really want is a glorified tape machine then I'd go with Logic (or cubase but I wouldn't recomend it) especiacally if you're hoping to use midi (although a the logic midi guys defected to digidesign when apple bought emagic). You can use whatever hardware you like it sounds good, plugins are great and cheap and editing is not bad . The main downside to logic is that it does not hold phase on playback ie records 8 drum mics and when they play back they will be played a few samples randomly out. Not much, but enough for me not to be able to use it.

If you want to get serios you've really got no option than pro tools. Yes it is expensive but the speed and ease of audio editing absolutely blows any competition out of the water. I recently recorded an album on a TDM system through an SSL G+. To save the band money I edited the drums at home on my Ibook and MBOX. This was a punk band with most songs at 140 BMP with a drummer that rushed all his fills (oh, and the tracks weren't played to click so they sped up and slowed down every 4 bars!). I cut every single drum beat out by hand (no beat detective) put them all in time and stuck it all back together without one flam or glitch......12 songs in 5 days. Try doing that in logic and you'd still be slogging away after a month.

I would disagree with anyone who argues for any of these products on the basis of sound quality. All similarly priced products will sound about the same unless you've got a stack the most expensive tube condensers a 44.1 24bit recording will give a proffesional quality recording of a SM58, especially in a home situation. I'm afraid to say that people who sell stuff on the basis it has bigger numbers written on it are usually salesmen of bull****ters!

All I can say is go out and try some of this stuff, you'll be able to download most of it off the net anyway (www.limewire.com) so you can try it FOA before you buy!

Good luck
 
Thanks bennyj; what you added does confirm what several other folks had already said. You're definitely not too late, I probably won't make a move until late winter anyway so any suggestions are helpful. Based on what you added it seems that when it comes to Logic vs. ProTools the right choice for me right now is Logic.
 
2 cents

From what I understand of your original post, it seems that you are interested in recording live music. If this is the case, I would like to recommend a simple solution. Buy a simple mixing unit that will allow you to mix your signals (mic, instruments, etc.). This could be as little as $50 depending on your needs. Then send your stereo output to your iBooks line in. This is done with simple adapters. Then, buy a program such as AudioX ($20, available on Apple's downloand site). This program will record your file as a quicktime recording. The benefit is that you can convert the file to .wav, .aiff, or .mp3 which makes it usable in iTunes. That way you can make a nice recording very cheaply and burn it to a cd. Of course, this solution is only valid if you are looking to record "live" exclusively. Realistically, if you aren't sure how much recording you will do, it doesn't make sense to buy a bunch or recording equipment that will just end up on eBay in a few months. Go with the easiest and cheapest solution and then invest money as your abilities and interests grow.
 
Nuendo

You may want to look into Nuendo. I've just been introduced to it, and I can happily report that it has all the ease of audio editing that PT does, without having to invite DigiDesign into your home. It also has better MIDI than PT, so you're getting quite a deal. More learning curve, but a fine app. I'll throw more info up when I've had a chance to evaluate it, but perhaps someone else has some info? Anyone?

Dan


edit:
Originally posted by crenz
Are you talking about the 6|2, or a different hardware? I'm aware that PCI-based solutions usually don't have latency issues on OS X, but I'm just worried about USB hardware.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about the 2|6. Two inputs, six out.
 
Re: 2 cents

Originally posted by amiteswamp
Buy a simple mixing unit that will allow you to mix your signals (mic, instruments, etc.). [...] Then send your stereo output to your iBooks line in.
Click to expand...

this eliminates all possibilities for post-production. even when recording live events, it's useful to be able to adjust relative volumes (not to mention fx, pans, EQ, etc.) later.
 
Post-production is only going to be an issue if you are looking to "produce" music, not capture it. The original post mentions record and produce, but given the users level of experience, it's my opinion that he'd be better off learning how to capture a live performance first with simple equipment. This is the heart of any music production involving live musicians. Then, once he outgrows this level, it would be wise to invest further in better software etc. My suggestion is cost effective and in no way limits the user's ability to add to his setup as his abilities grow.
 
Originally posted by amiteswamp
Post-production is only going to be an issue if you are looking to "produce" music, not capture it.
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?????

if one records sound and does anything other than leave the recorded tracks untouched, then one is producing -- even if simply making an mp3 of it.

in your scenario, the user is making mix decisions at record time. that's production. and it's a bad time to make such production decisions -- post is a better choice.

sure, your recommendation is low-cost, both to get into and out of. but please don't pretend that production isn't a part of a live recording.
 
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