That is very different from my experiences. But of course this is all anecdotal. I now block flash and enjoy the internet much more than before.
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[Merged] No Flash?
- Thread starter wolfpackfan
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That is very different from my experiences. But of course this is all anecdotal. I now block flash and enjoy the internet much more than before.
2006 Macbook here with zero problems when using flash. Monitor is broken, but it makes a hell of a media center
Nine pages in and it's mostly just arguing back and forth about why Flash does or doesn't suck...
But the bottom line, for me, is that an iPad would have been an incredibly useful tool for work and I was excited to pre-order it... until I heard that it wasn't going to include Flash.
Several of the sites that I have to access for my job use some Flash elements. Without a Flash-capable browser, I cannot login and perform tasks on said websites.
At the beginning of Jobs' speech, he said: "So all of us use laptops and smartphones... the question has arisen; is there room for something in the middle? We've wondered for years as well -- in order to create that category, they have to be far better at doing some key tasks... better than the laptop, better than the smartphone."
IMO, it's no better at browsing the web than a smartphone without Flash. Whether or not the program sucks is basically irrelevant -- some of us need it in order to access websites for work, school, etc. Getting angry and dropping the webmaster an e-mail demanding that they get with the program and start using HTML5 is a joke, and we all know it. It's not going to make them drop what they're doing and re-code everything.
So I won't be buying an iPad, unfortunately. I could overlook the lack of multitasking and camera, but if I cannot access what I need on the web, it's best to stick with my notebook, even though the tablet would have been so much more convenient to carry around.
But the bottom line, for me, is that an iPad would have been an incredibly useful tool for work and I was excited to pre-order it... until I heard that it wasn't going to include Flash.
Several of the sites that I have to access for my job use some Flash elements. Without a Flash-capable browser, I cannot login and perform tasks on said websites.
At the beginning of Jobs' speech, he said: "So all of us use laptops and smartphones... the question has arisen; is there room for something in the middle? We've wondered for years as well -- in order to create that category, they have to be far better at doing some key tasks... better than the laptop, better than the smartphone."
IMO, it's no better at browsing the web than a smartphone without Flash. Whether or not the program sucks is basically irrelevant -- some of us need it in order to access websites for work, school, etc. Getting angry and dropping the webmaster an e-mail demanding that they get with the program and start using HTML5 is a joke, and we all know it. It's not going to make them drop what they're doing and re-code everything.
So I won't be buying an iPad, unfortunately. I could overlook the lack of multitasking and camera, but if I cannot access what I need on the web, it's best to stick with my notebook, even though the tablet would have been so much more convenient to carry around.
I don't think you need to get angry, but letting them know that their site isn't standards-compliant is a reasonable course of action. Honestly, people should be embarrassed if they produce sites that aren't universally accessible without a proprietary 3rd party plugin. Not to mention that flash doesn't support accessibility tools for people with visual impairments. It's shameful for businesses to not provide handicap spaces, wheelchair ramps, braille etc, as it should be for not providing standard/universal access to their content.
I'm not saying they can't have flash, by all means if that's what floats their boats, but they should first provide access to everyone using the universally agreed upon international standards and then add on any extras using flash or any other closed-source proprietary standards.
I agree totally with Gorillapaws..
I have nothing against flash, but as long as it's not working as it should (crash on most sites that use Flash Video, and send my fans into hyperspace), I'm glad it stays off my machines.
I think the comment by Adobe is arrogant (as maybe is also Apple's stance). They have a position akin to a monopoly regarding flash and refuse to tackle the problem that it is incredibly unstable and inefficient on the Mac. They simply don't give a ****.
I have nothing against flash, but as long as it's not working as it should (crash on most sites that use Flash Video, and send my fans into hyperspace), I'm glad it stays off my machines.
I think the comment by Adobe is arrogant (as maybe is also Apple's stance). They have a position akin to a monopoly regarding flash and refuse to tackle the problem that it is incredibly unstable and inefficient on the Mac. They simply don't give a ****.
Link To Site Claiming Adobe Called Out Apple
http://mashable.com/2010/01/28/flash-ipad/http://mashable.com/2010/01/28/flash-ipad/
http://mashable.com/2010/01/28/flash-ipad/http://mashable.com/2010/01/28/flash-ipad/
Oracle's entire support site now uses Flash - and that was completely redesigned to use Flash just a few months ago. Anyone who thinks Flash is going away anytime soon is deluding themselves.
I don't like it much, and avoid it where possible, but my reasons for disliking it are about poor implementation on some platforms and the proprietary aspect of it. But those reasons mean nothing to the average person who we are told is the main target market for the iPad. They expect when they are told it's a better browsing experience, that means 'it just works'. Well, clearly it doesn't, and they are not going to be impressed by the technical or evangelical arguments about it if their favourite websites don't work.
Screw Flash we don't need it. If you need it that bad don't buy it.
I hate Flash and Java lol
Mine crashed a lot when I am playing Cafe World LMAO. Right when I am about to serve my dishes up... I throw things due to this.
I hate Flash and Java lol
Mine crashed a lot when I am playing Cafe World LMAO. Right when I am about to serve my dishes up... I throw things due to this.
http://www.billybussey.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=26
Can HTML5, or anything else for that matter do anything close to these sites?
Can HTML5, or anything else for that matter do anything close to these sites?
I don't get why you guys think flash is a bad thing.
Will no flash hinder the web browsing experience currently? Yes. But Apple will not make these closed devices open anytime soon. That is the point they wan't you to rely on the iTunes store.
With the advancement of HTML5 means better web apps that can function as native apps. Just google all the features HTML5 has to offer and what it can do now. This would in turn mean more freedom on the device YOU paid for without having to turn to jailbreaking.
Want to be able to download a song or movie off the web outside of itunes and play it? That is possible.
Want to be able to get emulators for snes and sega? Possible and available.
You won't even need the web do use web apps since HTML5 offers offline storage. None of that would be possible with flash. Think outside the box here.
Will no flash hinder the web browsing experience currently? Yes. But Apple will not make these closed devices open anytime soon. That is the point they wan't you to rely on the iTunes store.
With the advancement of HTML5 means better web apps that can function as native apps. Just google all the features HTML5 has to offer and what it can do now. This would in turn mean more freedom on the device YOU paid for without having to turn to jailbreaking.
Want to be able to download a song or movie off the web outside of itunes and play it? That is possible.
Want to be able to get emulators for snes and sega? Possible and available.
You won't even need the web do use web apps since HTML5 offers offline storage. None of that would be possible with flash. Think outside the box here.
No one answered my question,
how can we make the web interactive without flash,
I am not talking about putting your mouse over a button to change color, but like animation and intro to websites.
Is there a program that will allow you to draw and code like Flash?
Think of all the Vegas hotels websites.
Let us not forget , Apple's share of the computer world is only 7% or so, I don't think the other 93% would change to fit the 7%, and the ipad is even smaller community because macs CAN run flash.
Yes, Flash is a hog, yes it might cause crashes and is not a secure option, but its not replaceable currently. You can live without it in theory, but a lot are using it currently.
Now that the iPad is out with no flash and no camera(wtf? this was going to be perfect for ichat) , I think other companies like HP will mimic all the good stuff in an iPad then release a tablet that is able to run flash, with a camera, and is cheaper.
and the ipad will fail.
just remember its a big iphone
The only way I see this working out is, that I noticed most developers and key people in main websites like youtube, google, digg, and others are mac users and mac fans. So they want to support themselves basically, that will push them to turn their website compatible with their own devices. Once they do that, other websites will just follow along on the trend thinking this is the next big thing.
If you are head of Youtube and your macbook/iphone/ipad does won't run the site, you will modify youtube to make it work with it. If you are a windows user, you will be thinking "its working, why change it?who uses macs any way"
how can we make the web interactive without flash,
I am not talking about putting your mouse over a button to change color, but like animation and intro to websites.
Is there a program that will allow you to draw and code like Flash?
Think of all the Vegas hotels websites.
Let us not forget , Apple's share of the computer world is only 7% or so, I don't think the other 93% would change to fit the 7%, and the ipad is even smaller community because macs CAN run flash.
Yes, Flash is a hog, yes it might cause crashes and is not a secure option, but its not replaceable currently. You can live without it in theory, but a lot are using it currently.
Now that the iPad is out with no flash and no camera(wtf? this was going to be perfect for ichat) , I think other companies like HP will mimic all the good stuff in an iPad then release a tablet that is able to run flash, with a camera, and is cheaper.
and the ipad will fail.
just remember its a big iphone
The only way I see this working out is, that I noticed most developers and key people in main websites like youtube, google, digg, and others are mac users and mac fans. So they want to support themselves basically, that will push them to turn their website compatible with their own devices. Once they do that, other websites will just follow along on the trend thinking this is the next big thing.
If you are head of Youtube and your macbook/iphone/ipad does won't run the site, you will modify youtube to make it work with it. If you are a windows user, you will be thinking "its working, why change it?who uses macs any way"
Javascript, scalable vector graphics, and HTML 5 markup as currently implemented in Safari and Firefox can replace most flash animations.
But is not this what the Apple experience is all about (deluding themselves)?
I'll be enjoying my Web experience (with Flash when needed). You keep waiting. You must be used to it. How many years did it take for Apple to add second button to the mouse?
What am I waiting for?
OS X has supported two button mice since it was released. I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that current web browsers support vector animations without a flash plugin.
You are waiting either for Apple to allow the use of Flash or for Web to stop using Flash.
OS did support it but Apple only offered one button mouse and many Apple zealots kept using those ridiculous mice arguing that that was all they needed (until Apple changed its tune)
For everyone clamoring about HTML5, do some reading about it first. HTML5 currently has no editors. So web developers cannot write HTML5 unless they know all the rules and hand code it all. HTML5 is not supposed to be an available standard until 2012 at the earliest. HTML5 if fraught with "exceptions" that make the use in WYSIWYG editors difficult to make.
Flash is the current web standard for websites that are more than simple pages. It may be a memory hog, it may be a vehicle for malicious code, and it may cause infrequent crashes. But an extremely large number of web pages use flash. Flash use is not limited to videos. Since Mobile Safari is such a small market, there is no reason why web developers should re-design their pages.
Adobe has made a Flash for mobile devices and every mobile internet device is capable of running flash - except Apple. This is a decision made by Apple - not Adobe. I don't presume to know why Apple is doing this. Maybe it's Flash licensing fees. Maybe it's simply a pissing contest between Apple and Adobe. Maybe Apple is trying to push for their HTML5 (which Apple developed along with Google).
Whatever the case, it prevents Apple mobile customers from experiencing the "full" Internet experience. I can accept this with my iPhone. It's not an Internet surfing device anyway. It's mostly just for those immediate look-up when away from my Macbook Pro. But for the iPad to be a true Internet device, it needs to be able to view all Internet pages. If it doesn't play Flash sites, then it can't do this. A netbook running Windows would be a far superior Internet device.
I would by an iPad in a heartbeat if it was a true Internet surfing device. But without Flash support, this is merely a larger iPhone without the telephone. It doesn't adequately fill any gap.
Flash is the current web standard for websites that are more than simple pages. It may be a memory hog, it may be a vehicle for malicious code, and it may cause infrequent crashes. But an extremely large number of web pages use flash. Flash use is not limited to videos. Since Mobile Safari is such a small market, there is no reason why web developers should re-design their pages.
Adobe has made a Flash for mobile devices and every mobile internet device is capable of running flash - except Apple. This is a decision made by Apple - not Adobe. I don't presume to know why Apple is doing this. Maybe it's Flash licensing fees. Maybe it's simply a pissing contest between Apple and Adobe. Maybe Apple is trying to push for their HTML5 (which Apple developed along with Google).
Whatever the case, it prevents Apple mobile customers from experiencing the "full" Internet experience. I can accept this with my iPhone. It's not an Internet surfing device anyway. It's mostly just for those immediate look-up when away from my Macbook Pro. But for the iPad to be a true Internet device, it needs to be able to view all Internet pages. If it doesn't play Flash sites, then it can't do this. A netbook running Windows would be a far superior Internet device.
I would by an iPad in a heartbeat if it was a true Internet surfing device. But without Flash support, this is merely a larger iPhone without the telephone. It doesn't adequately fill any gap.
No, I'm not.
Again, what does this have to do with the fact that current web browsers support vector animations without a flash plugin?
75 million and climbing rapidly is not such a small market. And most major companies have redesigned their pages.
I notice this trick a lot in these forums. When did adding "true" to a phrase start to mean "whatever definition that fits my argument and not the actual, real definition." True internet. True HD. True multitasking.
Like I said before that it will take years for it to become standard. I doubt 2012 from what I read 2020. My point is with a popular platform like this it will push HTML5 development so we won't have to wait that long.
With people saying oh flash is not going anywhere HTML5 is never going to be anything,etc that just hurts progress in technology.
I for one am glad the iphone,ipod touch and ipad does not have Flash because that just pushes people to make more advanced web apps. As a web developer I would rather make web apps then trying to learn xcode and crap. As a user I find Flash to be an annoyance with all of it's issues, cpu and battery hogging.
Most major companies have not redesigned their pages to eliminate Flash. In fact, we know this device will not play Flash because Steve Jobs went to the New York Times in his demonstration and it showed the little icon most iPhone users have come to know and hate. Steve Jobs in his keynote presentation couldn't stay away from a Flash webpage from a major company.
While there are 75 million iPhones, web developers will look at stats from places like Google that track the browsers that frequent pages. This gives a true measure of usage. If your mobile Safari does not allow navigation on a page, you're not going to access that page. It will make the stats show low viewership from those devices. Web developers will have no need to change. Most people will simply wait until they can get to their laptop or desktop. Fine for the iPhone. But not for the iPad.
Actually it's still only 0.64% browser share - a small market by most people's definition. Even Linux manages 2.14%. Mobile Safari is undoubtedly important in the mobile space, but still a drop in the ocean overall.
Enthusiasts and web developers will harness HTML 5 much sooner than 2012. Flash is clunky, vulnerable, and will kill battery life.
This is great...The Flash people are already shooting themselves in the foot... (source)
Quick...which one doesn't belong ? ... Suddenly I get why people are so outraged about the lack of Flash on the iPad...
Anyway, the Google screenshot is wrong as well, since Goggle Finance is able to fall back to a static display that doesn't require Flash.
EDIT: the screenshot that I was talking about has been removed, so my allusions don't make sense anymore.
EDIT2: Responses from the web [1], [2]
Quick...which one doesn't belong ? ... Suddenly I get why people are so outraged about the lack of Flash on the iPad...
Anyway, the Google screenshot is wrong as well, since Goggle Finance is able to fall back to a static display that doesn't require Flash.
EDIT: the screenshot that I was talking about has been removed, so my allusions don't make sense anymore.
EDIT2: Responses from the web [1], [2]