Microsoft is assuring that the Xbox will die a quick death

[dantec]

Ok, here in Europe, the Xbox isn't selling for ****. Every time I go to a store, I still see a pile of around 17 Xboxes compared to the 20 I saw 3 weeks ago...

But in reality I think the Gamecube is doomed far beyond the Xbox. Microsoft really has the income and the weight of pushing developers for the Xbox. You can see this with the annoucement of Metal Gear Solid 3 for Xbox. So large game developers are following suit and developing a version for PS2 and a couple months later porting it to Xbox. However the gamecube, made by nintendo, is a great product in nature, but Nintendo can't push its weight around as much, and therefore I think is left behind.

Especially here in Europe the gamecube is refered to as the 'youngsters console'. The PS2 is by far the most popular with the more 'gory' games and the Xbox isn't far behind.

Disagree with me that is OK... just giving the European perspective over here...

Maybe I'm just bashing the gamecube cause it has an ATI chip... who knows...

 

[{1984}]

i was never too fond of console games... im glad they are gonna kill xbox

 

[chrisfx811]

nintendo's long term plans look alot like sega's recent course of action. soon they may be a game software company since that's where they excel. microsoft is already planning to expand the xbox's capabilities (homestation anyone?) they may not catch up to ps2 very soon, but developers have pretty much maxed out the ps2, while the xbox is just getting started. since ps3 is about 3-4 years away i wouldn't expect too much ground-breaking gameplay from the sony side , but they can always push the sequels to their great games like gta3 and gran turismo

 

[dantec]

Originally posted by chrisfx811
nintendo's long term plans look alot like sega's recent course of action. soon they may be a game software company since that's where they excel. microsoft is already planning to expand the xbox's capabilities (homestation anyone?) they may not catch up to ps2 very soon, but developers have pretty much maxed out the ps2, while the xbox is just getting started. since ps3 is about 3-4 years away i wouldn't expect too much ground-breaking gameplay from the sony side , but they can always push the sequels to their great games like gta3 and gran turismo

I couldn't agree more.

 

[hacurio]

Originally posted by elohim01
From MacBandit:

"Also I've been waiting for Sony to get pissed and just buy Microsoft. Microsoft does not have a lot of money in the big scheme of things they just have a lot of money for a software only company."

Geez, you would think a mac user would have more sense to do some decent research and discover that Microsoft has a net worth of over triple that of Sony.

People these days...

Actually Microsoft is not as big as everybody thinks, it ranks 201 worldwide. Sony is ranks 30 and Matsu****a ranks 26.

http://www.areport.com/

This links will show you annual reports and revenues.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hacurio


Actually Microsoft is not as big as everybody thinks, it ranks 201 worldwide. Sony is ranks 30 and Matsu****a ranks 26.

http://www.areport.com/

This links will show you annual reports and revenues.

I knew this I just didn't know where to look for it.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hacurio


Actually Microsoft is not as big as everybody thinks, it ranks 201 worldwide. Sony is ranks 30 and Matsu****a ranks 26.

http://www.areport.com/

This links will show you annual reports and revenues.

Here is something interesting. Motorola ranks higher then intel. I wouldn't have guessed that. Though if you think about it Motorola has there hands in more cookie jars.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by chrisfx811
nintendo's long term plans look alot like sega's recent course of action. soon they may be a game software company since that's where they excel. microsoft is already planning to expand the xbox's capabilities (homestation anyone?) they may not catch up to ps2 very soon, but developers have pretty much maxed out the ps2, while the xbox is just getting started. since ps3 is about 3-4 years away i wouldn't expect too much ground-breaking gameplay from the sony side , but they can always push the sequels to their great games like gta3 and gran turismo

Hey read this.

http://www.panasonic.com/MECA/press_releases/nintendo_99.05.12.html

Nintendo has big bucks help. I don't think they will be sinking any time soon. If they do start going down I think they will be combined with Panasonic. Panasonic already has a Game Qube of there own.

See it at the bottom of this page.

http://www.zeldaguide.com/gamecube/backroun

 

[pretentious]

Nintendo has big bucks help. I don't think they will be sinking any time soon. If they do start going down I think they will be combined with Panasonic. Panasonic already has a Game Qube of there own.

If they would of sold that dvd version here for a decent price, they could a chance. Frankly I new a lot of people who got the PS2 just because it came w/ a DVD player (before Xbox was out). that looks so much more palitable than the US version.

 

[mstur]

Re: No death in sight

Originally posted by allpar
What you fail to take into account is the fact that Microsoft rarely admits defeat, and there is no reason why they should. They have infinite money at their disposal. MSN has been stumbling along for years and I have NO doubt that it will eventually replace AOL as the #1 ISP in the nation...and the world...and that the rest of 'em will eventually fail except for the cable companies and a few locals (MAYBE).

Wonder whatever happened to that antitrust suit? Seems to have disappeared from the public eye.

Everyone - and also every company - will perish sooner or later, and there is NO infinite amount of money.

Errors cumulate, and - just think of Enron !

Question yourself: Is life possible without using a MS product ? Definitely yes, and even very easily ;-)

 

[chrisfx811]

sorry, i wasn't implying that nintendo was going under, i was just refering to an article i read where someone from nintendo was indicating the possibility that the big "n" would eventually make cross-platform games. actually their system probably has the quickest roi of the 3 systems available, it's just that they are not pursuing any of the new technologies in gaming. look at their take on the online gaming market... everything from them is tba. by no means will they go under, much like sega did not go under, in actuality they are flourishing more by focusing on their strength.. game making. hopefully there will continue to be choices in the console gaming community, cuz as mac fans we all know choice is good. when ps1 was virtually the only game in town (no offense to n64) look at how many crappy games you had to sift through to get to the good ones. microsoft is doing a decent job of separating their name from the xbox in advertising and such, because they obviously know that is the best way to go. so i hope the xbox flourishes in the future, because as of now it has the power to run the games of tomorrow. if it weren't for xbox and gc, console gamers would all be in a sony world with memory stick slots in the back of their head for uploading game preferences to their ps3.

 

[Stillman]

Firstly Nintendo is nothing like Sega. As a business, Nintendo has always outperformed Sega even in the 16-bits days, even when Sega outsold them they made more profit. For three years now, Nintendo has topped Nikkei as the best performing company. Sega had two consecutive failures - Saturn and Dreamcast, they are forced to exit the hardware market. Nintendo, on the otherhand, makes more profit from games than even Sony, Microsoft and EA. I do not see any reason that would push Nintendo to change their current business model.

Nintendo has always been a conservative company without the aggression of Sony or Microsoft. They are not betting on online games, but only time will tell if that is a mistake or not. It is my opinion that Microsoft may be over estimating on the attraction of online gaming.

Microsoft doesn't really have much 'weight' in the console market. They cannot push developers around. Xbox has a slight edge over Gamecube in the US, but it is lagging in Europe and is almost dead in Japan. Developers will not put games on a console with the narrowest audience. Ports that it is getting like 'Dead to Rights' will not shift units. Sony is just invincible with the PS2 brand. Nintendo's first-party titles are the best in the industry and Nintendo have got developers like Capcom (with Resident Evil series), Namco, Sega and even Square supporting them now.

Ok, there's Halo, but Halo 2 is not coming until the end of next year. I'm not sure whether buying Rare for $400 million (of which about 49% goes to Nintendo) is the best decision. Rare is not a very strong brand and it does not have very strong franchises. A lot of talent from the Goldeneye days have left Rare and it is not a sure-fire bet for MS. Whatever the outcome of the Rare deal, MS just can't buy a developer every time they need an exclusive. Someone in Redmond is bound to notice that money spent on Xbox can be better spent elsewhere if this trend continues.

 

[chrisfx811]

yeah your probably right, ms is just buying companies without doing any research into the purchase. they're probably just thumbing through the yellow pages saying "hmmmm rare, i don't think we've bought anybody out that start's with the letter "r" yet... send them a check asap!" again i was not saying nintendo is going under i was just restating what i read in an interview with a nintendo exec.
if i'm correct, i do believe sega is and was an awesome game maker and that didn't help dreamcast and saturn much did it? as for the ps2, game developers constantly bitched that the architecture was too difficult and it would cost way too much to make good games for it, but they had no choice cuz it was basically the only console in town at the time. well now xbox comes along with more power and developer friendly architecture, so there will be more choices. i've said it a few times already, but sony has no problem dumping money on companies to lock up exclusive titles and nobody says a thing, but when ms does it... some people just cry for no apparent reason! gta3 is a great game, but seriously, it would look better and play smoother on xbox. devil may cry wouldn't look so jaggie. right now ps2 has a huge installed base and that's tough to overcome, but we have seen the limits of what the ps2 can do, and if you are satisfied with the next 3 or 4 years of games looking the way they do now, then you are not a true game fan, you just want to see ms fall on their face. with xbox and to some extend gamecube we can have games that are graphically on par with pc's, and even though it is 2 different markets it is still nice to have georgeous games if your a console fan and don't like playing games with a ridiculous keyboard and mouse. and as for halo and halo2 being the only games on xbox... what r u talking about? it has the best selection of sports games period, one of the best fighters doa3.. with more to come, brute force, splinter cell, doom 3, the best version of spider man, max payne, splashdown, wreckless, segagt 2002, panzer dragoon, etc. the only games you can bitch about are the cross-platform games that don't take advantage of xbox hardware... and who do you blame for that... the developers or in ea's case, i'm sure sony's deep pockets have something to do with it

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by pretentious


If they would of sold that dvd version here for a decent price, they could a chance. Frankly I new a lot of people who got the PS2 just because it came w/ a DVD player (before Xbox was out). that looks so much more palitable than the US version.

Did you read the my post and the links? Nintendo does not have a DVD version Panasonic does. So this is not a US/Japan issue it's a Nintendo/Panasonic issue. Panasonic has chosen not to import there Qube. The bucks I'm talking about for Nintendo would be coming from Panasonic/Matsu****a one of the biggest companies in the world.

Just clarifying.

 

[hvfsl]

In history it is always the most powerful console that fails or does least well. For example, the NES vs Sega Master System, SNES vs Mega Drive/Genesis and the PSX vs N64. So I am expecting the xBox to do the least well as it is. Around 5 million more people have the GameCube over the xBox worldwide.

Also about the apple games console the Pipin, it was actually more powerful then the PSX and actualy had a few games made for it in Japan.

 

[Stillman]

chris, i agree with what you said but I think you misunderstood some of the things I said. 1) Sega was a great games company, but it never learnt how to make money. Nintendo does. Look at Gamecube, it's a console that can stand alongside Xbox in terms of power, but it can have a price tag of £129 (in UK) without nintendo losing any money while Xbox sells for £159 and Microsoft still has to lose something like £200 per console. A lot of people have IMO mistook Nintendo's direct Iwata-san's words when he said that their focus is on software and that the hardware competition is maxed out. What I think he means is that graphics on consoles have reached a point that the simply improved graphics PS3 or Xbox2 may not be able to convince consumers to take in new hardware, Nintendo thinks that the videogames industry in general needs to rethink its direction of development or the public would lose interest in the medium otherwise.

When I said Xbox has only got Halo, I meant that Halo is the only game that can actually convince people to buy an Xbox. Even with Halo, it is not immediately attractive to people outside the US. The other games you mentioned are good, but with the exception of Panzer dragoon, none of them are special enough to sell the console. Games like Splinter Cell and Doom III are coming out on other platforms. Of course, I think Xbox is technically the best console (not the best controller though) and it have the best versions of multiplatform games, but that isn't enough. People who love games will love Xbox (even if only for Halo), but the majority of gamers don't really care if Xbox is really slightly better than PS2.
Xbox may become the hardcore gamer's holy grail, but by being that it is only taking the place of Dreamcast, another consoles with good games overlooked by the public.

I guess microsoft is aan easy target for bitching because it is the newbie in the console world. Sony and Nintendo buy exclusives, but they are not bitched about because they have solid first-party titles themselves, something Microsoft did not have. Sony make innovative games like ICO. And Nintendo...i don't think i'll need to go further. MS is seen as buying their way in without any substance themselves. And there is always the fear that if MS succeeds in dominating the console market, our living rooms, then it'll decend into what we see in the PC world.

 

[iShater]

Re: Re: No death in sight

Originally posted by MacBandit


I really doubt there is anyway that MSN can ever compete agains AOL/Time Warner in money. Also I've been waiting for Sony to get pissed and just buy Microsoft. Microsoft does not have a lot of money in the big scheme of things they just have a lot of money for a software only company.

Here is a link to Fortune 500's most profitable companies, MS is way ahead of AOL.

http://www.fortune.com/lists/F500/topperf_co_mostproft_mill.html

 

[vniow]

Hmmmm, started interesting thread I did, no? Hmmmmm..............

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Re: Re: No death in sight

Originally posted by iShater


Here is a link to Fortune 500's most profitable companies, MS is way ahead of AOL.

http://www.fortune.com/lists/F500/topperf_co_mostproft_mill.html

Hmm? I don't know what you saw but I just checked it and AOL/Time Warner is number 37 with revenues of 38.234Billion. Microsoft is number 72 with 25.296Billion. That's a big difference and not ahead as you said. This is the top 500 revenues list which would give you an idea of the size of the company not it's profitability. They are a much bigger company with much more cash to throw around.

 

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Stillman
chris, i agree with what you said but I think you misunderstood some of the things I said. 1) Sega was a great games company, but it never learnt how to make money. Nintendo does. Look at Gamecube, it's a console that can stand alongside Xbox in terms of power, but it can have a price tag of £129 (in UK) without nintendo losing any money while Xbox sells for £159 and Microsoft still has to lose something like £200 per console. A lot of people have IMO mistook Nintendo's direct Iwata-san's words when he said that their focus is on software and that the hardware competition is maxed out. What I think he means is that graphics on consoles have reached a point that the simply improved graphics PS3 or Xbox2 may not be able to convince consumers to take in new hardware, Nintendo thinks that the videogames industry in general needs to rethink its direction of development or the public would lose interest in the medium otherwise.

When I said Xbox has only got Halo, I meant that Halo is the only game that can actually convince people to buy an Xbox. Even with Halo, it is not immediately attractive to people outside the US. The other games you mentioned are good, but with the exception of Panzer dragoon, none of them are special enough to sell the console. Games like Splinter Cell and Doom III are coming out on other platforms. Of course, I think Xbox is technically the best console (not the best controller though) and it have the best versions of multiplatform games, but that isn't enough. People who love games will love Xbox (even if only for Halo), but the majority of gamers don't really care if Xbox is really slightly better than PS2.
Xbox may become the hardcore gamer's holy grail, but by being that it is only taking the place of Dreamcast, another consoles with good games overlooked by the public.

I guess microsoft is aan easy target for bitching because it is the newbie in the console world. Sony and Nintendo buy exclusives, but they are not bitched about because they have solid first-party titles themselves, something Microsoft did not have. Sony make innovative games like ICO. And Nintendo...i don't think i'll need to go further. MS is seen as buying their way in without any substance themselves. And there is always the fear that if MS succeeds in dominating the console market, our living rooms, then it'll decend into what we see in the PC world.

i agree with it all 100% aside from the isse about xbox's controlller...dde i love that thing! when i use my ps2 for more than 15 min. my hands become extremely cramped and i ineed to periodically stop and stretch out my fingers. When using my Xbox (for halo) i can rip it up for over an hour with no aches or pains, i think they were going for that "ergonomic" feel, which unfortunately requires spacing your hands somewhat apart (moreso than the ps2 allows) and having the controller fit into the form of your and, rather than mold it to the form of the controller (ie M$'s ergonomic mouse, which now all mice are shaped like)

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Stillman
A lot of people have IMO mistook Nintendo's direct Iwata-san's words when he said that their focus is on software and that the hardware competition is maxed out. What I think he means is that graphics on consoles have reached a point that the simply improved graphics PS3 or Xbox2 may not be able to convince consumers to take in new hardware, Nintendo thinks that the videogames industry in general needs to rethink its direction of development or the public would lose interest in the medium otherwise.

I disagree completely I'm ready to shell out for a new PS3 right now. I've been playing mine for nearly two years and I want more.

 

[dantec]

The X-BOX controller SUCKS ! The PS2 is just right, and the gamecube is nice, but sometimes I find the joystick and keypad should be interchanged.

The X-box controller, seems like a keybord that was painted black and wraped around a small logic board. The thing is huge, and those four colorfull buttons... You can only get to one, withtout straining your hand !

What I do know... is that here in Europe, we all of a sudden have PS2's frying themselves up. Just a couple days ago my friends PS2 died. Same with another friend who had is PS2 die 6 weeks ago... I'm just hoping mine will last out long enough...

The wierd thing, is it would be cheaper to buy a new one, rather than repair it...

 

[Stillman]

Interesting, PS2s dying? Hmm...Funny that as Capcoms Resident Evil's creator recently bashed the PS2 and also claimed that Sony intentionally makes PS2s break down so people have to buy new ones. I would believe him as the Japanese sales figures for PS2 is unbelievably high all the time, one would think everyone in Japan would have two or three PS2s by now.

PS I've just heard that Panasonic is bringing out a new version of Q that has a TiVO like TV recorder. I wonder how much it'll cost. I think Panasonic/ Matshu****a wants have a piece of the pie in the console world and not let Sony dominate the living room but they know their brand is not strong enough, which is why they're doing it through Nintendo.

 

[MacBandit]

I got my PS2 the day they were released here in the US about 2 years ago and I have used it nearly every day for DVD or game and it has never had a problem or failure.

 

[chrisfx811]

stillman i agree with alot what u said. as for the debate on the controller... i think the ps2 has become the standard because the ps1 dominated the console market for 4 or 5 years. i do agree that it has a great button layout and is more suited to fit into a wide variety of gamers hands. i think the first xbox controller was too focussed on their target market of young adults age 16-30, mostly males who tend to have bigger hands. i think they did a decent job of remedying the situation with the "s" version although i would have liked a more direct copy of the japanese version, cuz i still feel the start and select buttons are in a silly place now. as for the nintendo controller...if you like sports games don't even bother, the button pad is not symmetrical and lends itself better to action/rpg/vehicular games that forcus on a primary action button with other buttons being secondary. there controller seems to be to specific for the types of games they produce and focus on and not very friendly towards a variety of genres, not to mention the cheap plastic feel of it.
as for ps2's reliability, my brother has replaced his, but luckily he purchased a replacement guarantee from eb, so it was no charge. thus far (knock on wood) my xbox has not had any probs yet. and i really don't think making the gamecube an all in one type machine is that great of an idea. it was made small for a reason and if you stick too much add on technology into it i think it will affect performance. what sounds better an all-in-one stereo or a component system? microsoft would gain more respect by producing better first party games to gather a strong following, but that's not their forte right now, so i think they are doing the only other thing they know how to do... buy them! do you guys remeember sony's first party sports games from 989 studios?? those things suck more than my $750 vacuum cleaner! the reality of future game development is we will see many more cross-platform games and a select few exclusive blockbusters. nintendo makes their own, microsoft buys theirs, and sony leverages their huge market share and tosses ad $$$ to the developers. unfortunately for us, sony's technology in the ps2 is pretty tapped out, so if the other consoles gain market share, cross-platform games will not always be created equal. t.v. programming is always the same, but i still have an hdtv cuz it looks better in my living room , same goes for my choice of getting an xbox primarily. although, with the new gta3 i will probably be giving the ps2 some extra attention this year