Mid 2015 Macbook Pro Question Mark Folder & Target Disk Mode Question

[MacGekko]

My Mid 2015 Macbook Pro froze up while using Firefox, question mark folder when I tried to power off and on, I am able to boot into Disk Recovery, it shows my drive, although sometimes it will be greyed out, but if I use the (time machine) backup utility, it will show the drive, I enter the admin password for my drive, then it shows no local snapshots, but when I go back into disk utility the hard drive is no longer greyed out and I can see the correct amount of data used and available.

So anyway here is the deal, I have my time machine backup from the end of August, was able to load that up on a 2024 Macbook Air, but there is a few weeks of a specific document that I would like to pull off the original 2015 hard drive, the 2015 will enter Target disk mode, I get the lightning icon, I have the mid 2015 Macbook Pro running High Sierra connected to a 2024 M3 Macbook Air running Sonoma, I am using a Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C adapter and a Thunderbolt 2 cable, nothing is showing up on the 2024 Macbook Air.

The Thunderbolt 2 cable was an open box item as these things are difficult to find, going to run back to the store over the weekend and see if I can buy another cable but let's say the cable and adapter are fine, are there any tricks you are aware of that would allow me to succesfully enable Target Disk Mode?

Update: Just checked the system profiler on the 2024 Macbook Air, it is showing the Thunderbolt port as connected to the mid 2015 Macbook Pro in target disk mode, but still not showing a hard drive in the Finder section or anywhere on the computer.

 

[Bigwaff]

Just checked the system profiler on the 2024 Macbook Air, it is showing the Thunderbolt port as connected to the mid 2015 Macbook Pro in target disk mode, but still not showing a hard drive in the Finder section or anywhere on the computer.

Does the drive appear in Disk Utility on the MBA? Make sure to select menu View > Show All Devices.

 

[MacGekko]

Does the drive appear in Disk Utility on the MBA? Make sure to select menu View > Show All Devices.

It does not, unless I am misreading all of the drives present but I don't think I am, also when the cable is not connected, the same drives are present in Disk Utility.

Today I am going to experiment with different Recovery modes, if you hit different key combinations, like Command-R and Option-Command-R, you get different OS recovery modes, maybe that is the stumbling block, during Recovery mode, sometimes when I click Startup Disk it will show the hard drive, but I click restart and it hangs and does nothing, when I click restart and open in Target Disk Mode, it does successfully restart in that mode.

Early on I did use First Aid in the Recovery Mode, it did report that it fixed some errors, but some advice on the internet reports that you should run First Aid again and then click Repair Permissions, maybe I should try that again and run First Aid multiple times.

All that aside, if I could just successfully connect the 2015 to the 2024 computer and pull one file, I could then try to resurrect the 2015 with my Time Machine backup or Install a new OS, Apple wrote that when you click the Install new OS, it does not erase your original data but if I want this file, that would have to be the last resort because I'm not certain it would not erase all of my data.

 

[Bigwaff]

I am using a Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C adapter and a Thunderbolt 2 cable, nothing is showing up on the 2024 Macbook Air.

Make sure your "USB-C adapter" is a Thunderbolt 3 > Thunderbolt 2 adapter. A USB-C > mini-DisplayPort adapter may look the part, and all cables attach, but is very, very different.

About the Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter - Apple Support

Connect a Mac that has a Thunderbolt 3 port to a device that uses a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 cable.

support.apple.com

 

[MacGekko]

Make sure your "USB-C adapter" is a Thunderbolt 3 > Thunderbolt 2 adapter. A USB-C > mini-DisplayPort adapter may look the part, and all cables attach, but is very, very different.

About the Apple Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter - Apple Support

Connect a Mac that has a Thunderbolt 3 port to a device that uses a Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt 2 cable.

support.apple.com

It definitely is the correct adapter but I don't understand this sentence at that Apple link: This adapter is not compatible with USB-C ports that don't support Thunderbolt 3, such as USB-C hubs or the USB-C port on MacBook models from 2015 or later.

I thought USB-C only arrived after 2015 so how is this adapter compatible with any Macbook?

Unless that is only referring to the Macbook line and not Macbook Air/Pros?

 

[Bigwaff]

Unless that is only referring to the Macbook line and not Macbook Air/Pros?

That is right. MacBook (not MacBook Air or Pro) models only have USB-C type ports and only support USB 3, not Thunderbolt. USB-C is a physical port.

 

[MacGekko]

That is right. MacBook (not MacBook Air or Pro) models only have USB-C type ports and only support USB 3, not Thunderbolt. USB-C is a physical port.

OK, I might be out of options, I might have to take the chance and choose the Reinstall MacOS option and hope it keeps all of my data from when the machine went down.

Target Disk Mode is just not showing a drive in the 2024 Air.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"OK, I might be out of options, I might have to take the chance and choose the Reinstall MacOS option and hope it keeps all of my data from when the machine went down."

I recommend that you use INTERNET recovery for this job.

Step-by-step:
Power down, ALL THE WAY OFF.

Press and hold down these keys:
Command-OPTION-R
... and KEEP HOLDING THEM DOWN as you press and release the power-on button.
KEEP HOLDING THOSE KEYS DOWN !

When you are asked for your wifi password, you can "let go" and enter it.

Now you should see the spinning globe as the internet utilities load.
It takes a while, so be patient.

When you get to the internet utilities screen, open the OS installer.
ACCEPT WHATEVER VERSION OF THE OS YOU ARE OFFERED.
A Mac that boots... is better than one that will not.

Click through the installer.
The Mac will reboot numerous times, and the screen will go dark for a minute or more with no other indication of activity. Be patient.

When done, you will see either your old login screen, or you may need to click through some additional steps to get there.

Good luck.

 

[MacGekko]

OP wrote:
"OK, I might be out of options, I might have to take the chance and choose the Reinstall MacOS option and hope it keeps all of my data from when the machine went down."

I recommend that you use INTERNET recovery for this job.

Step-by-step:
Power down, ALL THE WAY OFF.

Press and hold down these keys:
Command-OPTION-R
... and KEEP HOLDING THEM DOWN as you press and release the power-on button.
KEEP HOLDING THOSE KEYS DOWN !

When you are asked for your wifi password, you can "let go" and enter it.

Now you should see the spinning globe as the internet utilities load.
It takes a while, so be patient.

When you get to the internet utilities screen, open the OS installer.
ACCEPT WHATEVER VERSION OF THE OS YOU ARE OFFERED.
A Mac that boots... is better than one that will not.

Click through the installer.
The Mac will reboot numerous times, and the screen will go dark for a minute or more with no other indication of activity. Be patient.

When done, you will see either your old login screen, or you may need to click through some additional steps to get there.

Good luck.

Thanks, I have seen your advice posts on other threads, appreciate the help, this mid 2015 Macbook Pro is still on High Sierra, 10.13.6, I was going to update it soon to Monterey, the last OS possible, the question is, if I boot up with just Command-R, it will offer the High Sierra 10.13 OS version, if I boot up with Option-Command-R, it offers Monterey.

To be safe, should I go with the High Sierra version since that is what the computer is on currently?

Only other strange factor is that when I boot into recovery mode with High Sierra recovery mode version, that disk utility shows my hard drive, but it is not mounted, and it does not show anything but the available complete drive, it does not show my used current gb space.

However when I boot into the Monterey recovery mode, disk utility does show the hard drive with all of the current stats, and it is mounted, that might not mean anything, just an oddity.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Gonna say it again:
TRY what help I'm offering in reply 8 above.

I sense that it will "get you to where you need to be".

 

[diego.caraballo]

My Mid 2015 Macbook Pro froze up while using Firefox, question mark folder when I tried to power off and on, I am able to boot into Disk Recovery, it shows my drive, although sometimes it will be greyed out, but if I use the (time machine) backup utility, it will show the drive, I enter the admin password for my drive, then it shows no local snapshots, but when I go back into disk utility the hard drive is no longer greyed out and I can see the correct amount of data used and available.

So anyway here is the deal, I have my time machine backup from the end of August, was able to load that up on a 2024 Macbook Air, but there is a few weeks of a specific document that I would like to pull off the original 2015 hard drive, the 2015 will enter Target disk mode, I get the lightning icon, I have the mid 2015 Macbook Pro running High Sierra connected to a 2024 M3 Macbook Air running Sonoma, I am using a Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C adapter and a Thunderbolt 2 cable, nothing is showing up on the 2024 Macbook Air.

The Thunderbolt 2 cable was an open box item as these things are difficult to find, going to run back to the store over the weekend and see if I can buy another cable but let's say the cable and adapter are fine, are there any tricks you are aware of that would allow me to succesfully enable Target Disk Mode?

Update: Just checked the system profiler on the 2024 Macbook Air, it is showing the Thunderbolt port as connected to the mid 2015 Macbook Pro in target disk mode, but still not showing a hard drive in the Finder section or anywhere on the computer.

Run Apple Diagnostics first:

Use Apple Diagnostics to test your Mac - Apple Support

Apple Diagnostics, formerly known as Apple Hardware Test, can check your Mac for hardware issues.

support.apple.com

 

[MacGekko]

OP:

Gonna say it again:
TRY what help I'm offering in reply 8 above.

I sense that it will "get you to where you need to be".

Got it but why do you prefer Command-Option-R over Command-R, you don't think there is a risk with installing Monterey over my current High Sierra version?

(Update: It seems that others who have tried the High Sierra version have run into it not working as Apple's servers don't provide it anymore, so I think Fishrrman is correct and I am going to stick with Option-Command-R, perhaps that is why my specific hard drive with all of the stats does not show up with just Command-R.)

And nobody here thinks there is a chance that a USB-A to USB-C cable will work?

All of the Apple guidelines say only a thunderbolt cable will work with the previously mentioned Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 adapter.

I am currently on the screen right now install MacOS Monterey but wondering if I should run to Best Buy tomorrow to try to see if possibly a USB-A to USB-C cable could work before I try to reinstall the OS, again, not the end of the world if I can't recover this one document file, but I really would like to save it if possible.

 

[Stella_Fudge]

And nobody here thinks there is a chance that a USB-A to USB-C cable will work?

Any mac that does not have USB-C cannot be used in Target Disk mode with USB cable. Only 2016+ Macbook Pros, 2018+ Macbook Airs, all the 12" ones, 2018+ Mac Mini, and 2017+ iMac support USB-C TDM, everything prior is either Firewire, or Thunderbolt1/2, depending on what they have.

If you're comfy with terminal you can also use basic terminal commands in recovery mode to navigate to wherever your data might be (usually user folder), and copy it to an external drive thats plugged in. I've done that at work in a pinch a few times whenever all our little Thunderbolt adapters were in use elsewhere. pretty much just need to know how to navigate directories (cd command + its syntax), where drives/volumes are mounted (/Volumes usually), and copying command syntax (cp command)

Option C is to pull drive altogether from unit and use specialty enclosures to turn drive into external drive. Problem is that the enclosures are stupidly expensive so whether its worth is debatable, but option is there.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

If you want to try High Sierra first, I will offer you another path to walk.
(just be aware that HS is getting long in the tooth, and that Monterey is considerably "more recent" and more compatible with things today)

You will need a relatively RECENT Mac to do this. I believe you said you have access to one above.

First, go here and download the free utility called "Mist":

Release 0.20 · ninxsoft/Mist

Added preliminary support for macOS Sequoia 15 Fixed a bug that prevented retrieving Apple Developer Signing identities from the keychain correctly Fixed a bug that prevented CSV output being expor...

github.com

(you want the "Mist.0.20.dmg" file)

Mist is a VERY nifty and useful utility that enables you to download all versions of the OS, and even create bootable installers.

Once you have Mist, if you scroll down towards the bottom of the list of OS versions it offers, you'll see one for High Sierra.

Download HS.
(you may get a msg that you have to install the privileged helper tool. Go ahead and install it).

NOTE: Mist can't create a bootable installer for High Sierra,
BUT it will download (hopefully) a "good copy".

Now, you need to create the installer.
Get a USB flashdrive 16gb or larger.

Now, download BOTH of the following:
Install disk creator:

Make a Bootable USB macOS Installer Download the update for Big Sur compatibility -

What’s needed for a clean install on a Mac A backup of the disk before it’s erased. Two options are to use Duplicate (a free utility which can copy and paste an entire bootable volume), or Mac Backup Guru (a paid, fully featured backup utility with unique incremental backups capability) for...

macdaddy.io

AND
Diskmaker X:

http://diskmakerx.com/downloads/DiskMaker_X_701.dmg

Both are FREE tools that will create bootable installer drives.
WHY download both?
Because if one doesn't work for you -- TRY THE OTHER ONE.
Both are EASY to use -- they should create a bootable flashdrive with a few clicks of the mouse.

I suggest trying Install Disk Creator first.
Then, if that fails, try Diskmaker.

Once you have the install flashdrive ready:
Power down
Insert flashdrive
Hold down OPTION key (don't let go)
Press and release power on button.
Let go of option when you see startup manager
Choose flashdrive and see if you get a good boot to the installer.

If you get that far, try installing a fresh copy of the OS WITHOUT erasing the drive.

Good luck.

 

[Grumpus]

NOTE: Mist can't create a bootable installer for High Sierra,
BUT it will download (hopefully) a "good copy".

Not true, Mist can create a bootable High Sierra installation USB.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Not true, Mist can create a bootable High Sierra installation USB"

Nope.
I'm composing this reply on a 2018 Mac Mini running Mojave (which is "later than" High Sierra).
When I try to launch Mist, I get this:

It requires OS 12 or later to run.

Well, ok.
I break out my 2021 MacBook Pro, which is running OS 14 Sonoma.
Open Mist.
It will first "update", and then display a long list of both firmware and downloadable OS's.
IF it can also download and create a bootable installer in one operation, it will ALSO display that, as well.

Here's "the upper part" of the list:

You can see that Mist can create bootable flashdrives from these [later] versions of the OS.

Now, if we scroll down to older copies of the OS, we see this:

Note how there is an option to download the installer, but NO option with which to also create a bootable flashdrive.

So my advice to the OP about using Mist to download the OS and also Install Disk Creator (or DiskMaker X) to create the flashdrive stands.

If you have "postable evidence" to the contrary, please post it.

 

[Grumpus]

If you have "postable evidence" to the contrary, please post it.

I used Mist 0.20 to create a bootable High Sierra USB installer earlier today. Maybe you should check for updates.

 

[Grumpus]

The confusion appears to be due to Mist behaving differently depending on whether you run it on an Intel or AS machine. On an M3 MBP running Sonoma, Mist 0.20 doesn't offer to create a HS USB, whereas on an Intel MBP running Monterey it does. I'm guessing the difference is the hardware rather than the host OS, but verification would require that I update the Intel machine, and... no.

 

[Fishrrman]

OK, thanks for the correction.

But if the OP only has access to an Apple Silicon Mac, looks like he'll need to use a "non-Mist" utility by which to create the flashdrive.

At this point in time, it would probably better for the OP to use Internet Recovery and upgrade to Monterey (the final supported OS for a 2015 MBP)...

 

[MacGekko]

OK, thanks for the correction.

But if the OP only has access to an Apple Silicon Mac, looks like he'll need to use a "non-Mist" utility by which to create the flashdrive.

At this point in time, it would probably better for the OP to use Internet Recovery and upgrade to Monterey (the final supported OS for a 2015 MBP)...

OK, so just now I tried to reinstall macOS Monterey, and it asked me to select which disk, the only option was my normal Macintosh HD with 250 gb total and 130 gb available, after I clicked it gave me, "the operation couldn't be completed. Permission denied"

Anyone have a work around to this?

Update: In case someone encounters this, you have to follow Fishrrman's advice exactly, my mistake was unlocking my hard drive through the "reboot through time machine backup" section first, I did this because that was the only way I could see my specific hard drive stats on disk utility, so I thought I had to unlock before trying to "reinstall the macOS Monterey", I shut down, rebooted it in recovery mode, and went straight to the "reinstall" section, and then it asked me to unlock my drive with my password, and now I am in the installation process with the progress bar running, 2 hours and 19 minutes remaining, hopefully it continues.

Update II: "An error occurred while preparing the installation. Try running this application again.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Adora]

OK, so just now I tried to reinstall macOS Monterey, and it asked me to select which disk, the only option was my normal Macintosh HD with 250 gb total and 130 gb available, after I clicked it gave me, "the operation couldn't be completed. Permission denied"

Anyone have a work around to this?

At first I would use Disk Utility in Internet Recovery and rund "First Aid" on everything you see there, after checking "Show all devices" in the View menu. If this doesn't help the internal drive is either physically damaged or corrupted and you need to format it with losing all data.

 

[MacGekko]

At first I would use Disk Utility in Internet Recovery and rund "First Aid" on everything you see there, after checking "Show all devices" in the View menu. If this doesn't help the internal drive is either physically damaged or corrupted and you need to format it with losing all data.

That was one of the early things I did, it found errors and successfully repaired it, I might try it again, someone suggested running it consecutive times in a row.

 

[MacGekko]

OK, thanks for the correction.

But if the OP only has access to an Apple Silicon Mac, looks like he'll need to use a "non-Mist" utility by which to create the flashdrive.

At this point in time, it would probably better for the OP to use Internet Recovery and upgrade to Monterey (the final supported OS for a 2015 MBP)...

I might have to try your method but for a Monterey bootable usb drive.

This is one of the error messages I get on the installer log: the connection to service named com.apple.softwareupdated was invalidated

 

[Grumpus]

That was one of the early things I did, it found errors and successfully repaired it, I might try it again, someone suggested running it consecutive times in a row.

In How to repair a Mac disk with Disk Utility, Apple recommends running First Aid multiple times, first on volumes, then on containers, and finally on disks. Be sure to choose View -> Show All Devices in the Disk Utility menu.

 

[MacGekko]

In How to repair a Mac disk with Disk Utility, Apple recommends running First Aid multiple times, first on volumes, then on containers, and finally on disks. Be sure to choose View -> Show All Devices in the Disk Utility menu.

First aid on the main hard drive worked well but next up for the container disk, it gave me a message, "disk can't unmount".