MKBHD's M2 MBP review is out.

[sam_dean]

I don't know exactly what you do with your computer but for most people even if they do the same thing it's not the same thing. For example browsing the internet isn't the same in 2023 as it was in 2013. Editing videos back then were probably 1080P but now most at 4k. If you update your apps or games they are likely use more resources based on the developer's expectation of people using newer hardware. I honestly do the same thing today as I did with my PC back in 1998 but that computer couldn't do any tasks for me today.

I tell people base your upgrade on if you're happy how it's working. If browsing the web is painfully slow and you have to go for coffee after you open a Word doc then it's probably time for a new computer or at least check to see what's going on. If it seems normal and everything is working fine then maybe not.

Speed is sometimes based on what you're used to though so I don't recommend trying a newer computer because you might feel like your current one is too slow. When I switch between my MacBook Air and my gaming PC for tasks like watching YouTube or opening a document I can tell the difference. Even though it's less than two years old (Intel i7-11700K) it's slightly slower. It's not enough to bother me but I notice it. If I was coming from a 5+ year old PC switching back and forth, it would bother me.

Apple Mail from 2019 macOS Catalina still receives/sends email as before.

2012 Core i7 22nm with macOS Catalina can still run the latest copy of Firefox or even Chrome. You just need to max out RAM at 32GB for Chrome to allow an extra tab.

macOS Catalina's Safari still functions with Prime Video and Netflix.

Other than my iPhone I do not have any camera that records 4K video.

My last Canon EOS body was the 2015 5Ds R 51 megapixel. It ran fine with a 2012 Core i7 and I expect to be ably handled by even a 3nm A17 Bionic chip from a future iPhone.

For games... isn't that the domain of Xbox, PS & Nintendo? macOS is the last platform any gamer would play games on as the library for Apple silicon native titles are a dozen at most? I still play 1991 games on DOS Box and I expect even my AirPods can run it without a sweat.

Your PC in 1998 can handle any browser in the past half decade? Would it read current websites and render them properly with the timeframe of a yawn? That's why I posted previously that I put schedule on replacement cycle after the final macOS/Windows Security Update as at 10yo it's time to move to that year's release for the purpose of data privacy and preventive maintenance.

Based on my use case 10 years is fine but for people that do multiple streams of 8K HDR video editing and demand to run Mathematica at the same time then get a Mac Studio M1 Ultra with all the trimmings.

Per Apple they expect macOS devices to be replaced every 4 years

Per Intel they expect Windows devices to be replaced every 5-6 years

Per my use case I do so after final Security Update as my use case has not changed since 2015.

If I were to buy a 2022 FujiFilm GFX 100s 100 megapixel medium format camera body then I'd pair it with a Mac with a M2 chip or better.

It's use case. ;-) Life is not just about the Apple ecosystem.

 

[NdTonks]

Underwhelming for me. Good buy if you are upgrading from a pre-2021 model I guess.

 

[russell_314]

Underwhelming for me. Good buy if you are upgrading from a pre-2021 model I guess.

It’s mainly for people who are upgrading from an Intel MacBook and haven’t yet. Even I wouldn’t upgrade from M1.

 

[sam_dean]

It’s mainly for people who are upgrading from an Intel MacBook and haven’t yet. Even I wouldn’t upgrade from M1.

Per Apple odds are Nov 2020 M1 users will upgrade to a few months before or after Nov 2024 model.

Either a late 2024 Mac or early 2025 Mac.

 

[sunny5]

Expected outcome based on M2's performance. But I have to say GPU uses is still limited as Mac never known for 3D related software. It would be nice if Apple start adding more NPU and/or ray tracing cores to attract 3D software developers like Maya to compete with Nvidia which dominate the entire external GPU market by 90%.

 

[WoodTableFromIkea]

If someone who owns an M1 wants to buy the M2, they certainly can and are free to spend their money as they see fit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I did not say they couldn't. I "echoed" MKBHD words and used my own logic.

If you have a fully maxed out M1 from last year, then by all means go ahead and drop 2k+ on a laptop that is slightly better

 

[t0m3k]

I'm on MBP mid-2015, should I go with the M1 or M2 at this point?

 

[WoodTableFromIkea]

I'm on MBP mid-2015, should I go with the M1 or M2 at this point?

If you have the money, M2 hands down.

 

[ZacksWorld]

For people who think 10-20% increase in speed is "not a lot" or "not worth the money lol", here's a point of view to consider:

I do creative work for a living and I spend hours and hours in Adobe Illustrator, and some time in After Effects, Photoshop, etc.

Almost all of benchmarks we see are things like export times, rendering times, how long to perform one very complex task, how can it handle multiple streams of Resolution X in Codec Y...

But something that people who don't do this kind of work don't experience and don't see in the benchmarks is how a "10-20% increase" can meaningfully impact the nuts and bolts of the 'creative' part of this kind of work.

If you're in a large Illustrator file with a f-load of objects and paths and masks and effects, these "relatively small" increases in speed can actually make a noticeable difference in how responsive Illustrator is when you're dragging an object, selecting multiple objects, modifying multiple points, turning on and off layer visibility, even just drawing a line...

The more instantaneous these things happen, the more free you are to work "at the speed of your mind and hands" and not get bottlenecked by the computer computing something –even if it's a fraction of a second– a hundred times in five minutes.

When you account for this in addition to the minutes here and there that you save on other "computer stuff" that an M2 MBP will do faster than an M1 MBP, it's very clear that you can get way more than $3000 in value. 💹

(Plus, of course, the resale value on these machines is so good, so if you sell your old machine you're effectively only paying a fraction of the sticker price.)

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Nice. The more of these speed & power bumps on the road to M3, the faster it means it’ll be when it comes out.

 

[anshuvorty]

Replacement cycles per...

- Apple: Every 4 years
- Intel: Every 5-6 years
- Me: Every 10 years after final macOS/Windows Security Update

But it generally about your use case. Like if I have a project that paid well enough to buy the latest and greatest then go for it.

I'm on the 5 years track myself. These were my recent purchases:

• 16-inch MacBook Pro with Intel Core i9 and 16 GB RAM (I needed the extra horsepower for VMs I used then).
• Then, when the M1 MacBook Air was announced, I immediately bought one with 16 GB RAM because I didn't need to use VMs anymore, and the Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro was sucking up battery life and producing heat, all while the fan was running at full tilt, and it just wasn't worth it. Also, that butterfly keyboard and the TouchBar were plain awful.
• Then, when the M1 Pro/M1 Max 14-inch and 16-inch Macbook Pros were announced, I immediately upgraded again because those ports, along with similar, if not better, performance than the Intel Core i9 on the 16-inch MacBook Pro and not producing any heat, made it another worthwhile upgrade. As others have stated, the 14-inch Macbook Pro is just a dream machine: perfect keyboard + perfect combination ports (could use just 1 USB-A port, however) + wonderful display + amazing battery life + cool to the touch during heavy use - basically the perfect laptop.

I will surely keep this 14-inch M1 Pro MacBook Pro for the next 5 years.

I will see you guys when the M5 Pro or the M7 Pro is announced.

Thanks for listening to me rant.

 

[BlueGhost]

I've been running iStatistica Pro on a late 2013 13" mbp dual core i5 8gb 256gb (integrated graphics in the two physical cores/four logical cores). Most of the additional load the last several years seems to come from three main sources. Higher level and complexity of ads on web sites. Applications that were ported by Apple from iOS to macOS (primarily News and Stocks in my case). Higher resolution videos. Planning a move to a base configuration of 2023 14" mbp M2Pro 16gb 512gb (10c cpu, 16c gpu). Doubt that I will stress the base configuration model, but passing over Air models due to more limited ports, absence of active (fan-based) cooling, and more limited support for external displays. More than a few external disk manufactures recommend directly connecting their disk (or SSD) devices to a port, not to a dock or hub. Have also observed some displays may not play nice with docks. Lower speed devices generally have no issues with docks or even hubs. Expect to stay with this configuration for 4-6 years, or maybe close to end of security updates for last supported macOS release.

Still using a 2008-ish iPod Classic 80gb hard disk (battery and disk replaced by third party firm). May have battery replaced on a 2013-ish iPod Classic 160gb disk - need to check with third party firm to see if that is still possible.

Will probably keep iPhone SE (2nd generation) until shortly before I can no longer get security updates. Hopefully, a few years from now. Use it primarily as a Wifi source in event cable modem connection goes down, and to call out in event of prolonged power outages. It is powered-off most of the time, and recharged at start of month, and before major storms are expected.

Still waiting to switch from a 30 year old dumb watch to a smart watch. Just paid about $20 to have battery and o-ring seal replaced. May switch after storage on these watches increases and they can be used for more of the functions that an iPhone can do (may require development of solid state lithium battery or something equivalent).

I also keep a fairly low-end Chromebook (usually Samsung or Lenovo) to use if a software update appears to hang on macOS, or in rare event of a hardware issue. I normally replace the Chromebook more often than the MacBook Pro.

I'm not a big spender. LOL

 

[sam_dean]

I'm on the 5 years track myself. These were my recent purchases:

• 16-inch MacBook Pro with Intel Core i9 and 16 GB RAM (I needed the extra horsepower for VMs I used then).
• Then, when the M1 MacBook Air was announced, I immediately bought one with 16 GB RAM because I didn't need to use VMs anymore, and the Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro was sucking up battery life and producing heat, all while the fan was running at full tilt, and it just wasn't worth it. Also, that butterfly keyboard and the TouchBar were plain awful.
• Then, when the M1 Pro/M1 Max 14-inch and 16-inch Macbook Pros were announced, I immediately upgraded again because those ports, along with similar, if not better, performance than the Intel Core i9 on the 16-inch MacBook Pro and not producing any heat, made it another worthwhile upgrade. As others have stated, the 14-inch Macbook Pro is just a dream machine: perfect keyboard + perfect combination ports (could use just 1 USB-A port, however) + wonderful display + amazing battery life + cool to the touch during heavy use - basically the perfect laptop.

I will surely keep this 14-inch M1 Pro MacBook Pro for the next 5 years.

I will see you guys when the M5 Pro or the M7 Pro is announced.

Thanks for listening to me rant.

I wish I never bought any new laptop from 2012-onward. Last Mac would be a 2011 MBP 13" 32nm 16GB

I'd have bought the 2021 MBP 16" M1 Pro 5nm 32GB if I did that. Next replacement would be a 2031 MBP sub-1nm.

 

[sam_dean]

I've been running iStatistica Pro on a late 2013 13" mbp dual core i5 8gb 256gb (integrated graphics in the two physical cores/four logical cores). Most of the additional load the last several years seems to come from three main sources. Higher level and complexity of ads on web sites. Applications that were ported by Apple from iOS to macOS (primarily News and Stocks in my case). Higher resolution videos. Planning a move to a base configuration of 2023 14" mbp M2Pro 16gb 512gb (10c cpu, 16c gpu). Doubt that I will stress the base configuration model, but passing over Air models due to more limited ports, absence of active (fan-based) cooling, and more limited support for external displays. More than a few external disk manufactures recommend directly connecting their disk (or SSD) devices to a port, not to a dock or hub. Have also observed some displays may not play nice with docks. Lower speed devices generally have no issues with docks or even hubs. Expect to stay with this configuration for 4-6 years, or maybe close to end of security updates for last supported macOS release.

Still using a 2008-ish iPod Classic 80gb hard disk (battery and disk replaced by third party firm). May have battery replaced on a 2013-ish iPod Classic 160gb disk - need to check with third party firm to see if that is still possible.

Will probably keep iPhone SE (2nd generation) until shortly before I can no longer get security updates. Hopefully, a few years from now. Use it primarily as a Wifi source in event cable modem connection goes down, and to call out in event of prolonged power outages. It is powered-off most of the time, and recharged at start of month, and before major storms are expected.

Still waiting to switch from a 30 year dumb watch to a smart watch. Just paid about $20 to have battery and o-ring seal replaced. May switch after storage on these watches increases and they can be used for more of the functions that an iPhone can do (may require development of solid state lithium battery or something equivalent).

I also keep a fairly low-end Chromebook (usually Samsung or Lenovo) to use if a software update appears to hang on macOS, or in rare event of a hardware issue. I normally replace the Chromebook more often than the MacBook Pro.

I'm not a big spender. LOL

Does installing Adblock Plus in your browser help with reducing load?

 

[BlueGhost]

Does installing Adblock Plus in your browser help with reducing load?

Thanks for the question/recommendation.

I'm using an ad blocker (Ka-Block), but have to disable it for certain websites. Some sites complain about having an ad blocker, recommending that if I want to keep using the site free to disable the ad blocker. They give the option to pay a subscription fee. (Sometimes they stop doing this after a certain length of time, maybe because it costs them cpu cycles.)

There is also content blocking and anti-ransomware within security software. I'm retired from a firm that does aviation manufacturing for several governments and aircraft manufacturers, so I'm keen to keep all shields activated against the "forces of evil". And I won't believe this is not necessary, even if Steve Jobs returns from the grave in a dream like A Christmas Carol (1951 version). The security software appears to be of lower impact than the ad blocker itself.

Have been sending a fair number of incoming obnoxious emails to abuse@icloud.com lately, especially ones with .RU (Russian) email addresses. Also a ton of other emails that imply I need to send money for a prize that has been won from a store that I've never visited, or have not visited in 10 or more years (a huge increase starting in mid-December). Suspect my email may have been harvested in an as-yet unreported security hack. Oddly, these look a lot like the ones my former employer sent out to test employee reaction, and then schedule remedial on-line security courses for anyone who responded to the emails.

 

[Gudi]

What I got from all these reviews is the M1 Pro & Max to M2 Pro & Max improvements are greater than the baseline M1 to M2 improvements. Seems like a great generational leap in performance without improving the node size (4nm or 3nm).

M1 Max 57 billion transistors (5nm)
M2 Max 67 billion transistors (5nm 2nd Gen.)

Of course it's a smaller node size. Where else do you thing those extra 10 billion transistors fit?

 

[dtm84]

hello i am on a mac book pro 2008 1.83ghz core duo. Should i upgrade to the M2 or wait for the M3?

 

[leman]

M1 Max 57 billion transistors (5nm)
M2 Max 67 billion transistors (5nm 2nd Gen.)

Of course it's a smaller node size. Where else do you thing those extra 10 billion transistors fit?

It’s the same node size. The new chips are larger.

 

[Gudi]

It’s the same node size. The new chips are larger.

By how much?

 

[120FPS]

hello i am on a mac book pro 2008 1.83ghz core duo. Should i upgrade to the M2 or wait for the M3?

They may announce a 15” MBA with an M3 so maybe wait for that one if you can. Although considering you are on such an old device an M2 would be a big update for you.

 

[leman]

By how much?

M2 is estimated to be almost 30% larger than M1, at roughly 155mm2. I suppose similar will be the case for Pro/Max. These are very expensive chips.

 

[anshuvorty]

hello i am on a mac book pro 2008 1.83ghz core duo. Should i upgrade to the M2 or wait for the M3?

The battery on that thing is most certainly dead and doesn't hold any charge, I'm sure. You gotta upgrade! An M2 MacBook Air would be the ideal laptop for you.

 

[Gudi]

M2 is estimated to be almost 30% larger than M1, at roughly 155mm2. I suppose similar will be the case for Pro/Max. These are very expensive chips.

Some say 145 mm² or 20% larger. M2 is also N5P versus M1 on N5. So I suppose Pro/Max will be N5P too?

 

[Xiao_Xi]

Some say 145 mm² or 20% larger. M2 is also N5P versus M1 on N5.

Apple M2 Die Shot and Architecture Analysis – Big Cost Increase And A15 Based IP

Apple announced their new 20 billion transistor M2 SoC at WWDC. Unfortunately, it’s quite a minor uplift in performance in some areas such as CPU. Apple’s gains mostly came from the GPU and video editing side of things.

www.semianalysis.com

 

[MayaUser]

That sort of permissiveness gets men to create 2nd batches of kids even when they cannot afford to finance the 1st batch. 😂

Since you make such a comparisons you dont know what are you talking about..when M2 Mba got released i bought and trade M1 just because it had hardware en/decode for proRes and that big for me when im on the go with the Mba, time is money here