monster cable surge protector

[Wotan31]

Try plugging the TV directly into the socket?

I always thought those Monster Surge protectors were a ripoff and a scam when you can buy a no name brand one with surge protection for under $20. I wonder if yours just paid off?!?

No name surge protectors, brand name surge protectors, they're all MOV based and aside from wearing out every couple of years without warning, (the MOV's wear out) they don't work very well at absorbing surges. Also, they typically provide ZERO protect against surges that come from the ground wire, a common occurrence during a lightning strike. (FWIW, like others in this thread, I think monster products are garbage. I've owned a few over the years and they were all junk).

If you just want an outlet strip that makes you feel good even though it provides little to no surge protection, go down to your local Big Box store and pick any of the ones they have for sale. Doesn't matter if it's the $5.99 no name or the $129 "high end" brand.

If you want REAL protection from surges, you want a Brick Wall type of surge protector.

UPS devices typically provide very very low surge protection capabilities, if any. You really need an in-line surge protector connected in series with the UPS. UPS's are designed primarily for no-power situations. Not for excessive surge power situations.

And no I have no affiliation with the Brick Wall product I linked to, just a very happy customer who also happens to have an electrical engineering degree.

 

[westom]

No name surge protectors, brand name surge protectors, they're all MOV based and aside from wearing out every couple of years without warning, (the MOV's wear out) they don't work very well at absorbing surges.

Wotan31 has just summarized sales propaganda from Surgex, Brickwall, and Zerosurge rather than read the science or learn what has been standard for over 100 years. He forgot to mention is that MOVs don't wear out even in ten years (if a protector is properly sized and properly earthed). MOVs normally wear out by degrading. Voltage changes by 10%. Any MOV that fails catastrophically (see those scary pictures) violates every manufacturer's parameters at the top of every MOV datasheet. MOVs are a problem only when the protector is maximized for profit; not for protection.

Undersizing MOV protectors permits (encourages) damage so that the naive will hype a myth, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Then Surgex, et al blame MOVs for catastrophic (unacceptable) damage. That damage is directly traceable to a deceived consumer. A consumer who assumes it is called a "surge protector"; therefore it must be "surge protection".

Surgex, Brickwall, Panamax, Belkin, Monster Cable, and grocery store protectors all meet the definition of ineffective. NIST bluntly defined these devices:
> ... surge protector will work by diverting the surges to ground. The best
> surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done
> properly.

Obviously: each has no dedicated earthing; provides no effective protection. That was reason one.

Second, somehow that Surgex will stop what three miles of sky could not. Somehow it will absorb a direct lightning strike. OK. Then mankind is routinely absorbing lightning to obtain energy. Surgex claims, “Series Mode technology is adaptive filter technology, which stores surge energy and slowly releases it” Why is lightning energy not stored and used? Because nothing can store and then slowly release a destructive surge as Surgex (and Wotan31) imply - subjectively. Nothing stops that surge as Belkin, Panamax, Monster Cable, et al claim. Series mode protectors are for surges that are not typically hardware destructive - tiny surges mostly made irrelevant by protection already inside appliances.

Third, where are Surgex spec numbers that claim what that sales propaganda says? Not provided? Wotan31 has done what an overwhelming majority do. Read something subjective. Not demand numbers. Blindly believe retail sales propaganda. No numbers is the first indication of a lie or myth. Same technique that also proved Saddam's WMDs. Subjective claims work when some only believe what is first told. The informed know that energy must be dissipated harmlessly in earth – 100 years of well proven science.

Fourth, what happens when a Surgex tries to stop (absorb) a surge? Another fact that Surgex forgot to mention. That current uses the Surgex safety ground wire to completely bypass protection; to find earth destructively via the nearby appliance. Why did they forgot to discuss that wire? Why be honest? Subjective claims – junk science – are how to sell to those who *know* without first learning. Lies and deceit are part of retail sales when marketing to the most naïve.

Fifth, how much for the Surgex to only protect one appliance? $150 per appliance? Effective protection is about $1 per appliance. Protection for everything including appliances essential to human safety – furnace and smoke detectors.

Five reasons why the Surgex is so expensive and not very effective. Either a surge is harmlessly absorbed in earth. Or a surge, permitted inside the building, will hunt for earth (without or without the Surgex) destructively via household appliances. Nothing stops a surge. Not personal attacks. Not hopes, assumptions, or myths. Not three miles of sky. Not even half truths in that Surgex sales brochure. An informed homeowner spends tens or one hundred times less money per appliance earthing one 'whole house' protector. In some cases, the ‘whole house’ protector may even be necessary to protect a Surgex or Brickwall.

MOVs are only problematic when the protector is optimized for profits; not for protection. Surgex identifies another problem with plug-in protectors. A problem not found with properly earthed ‘whole house’ protectors. Amazing how many will ignore posted numbers and the science to believe subjective half truths from a sales brochure. Subjective claims and no spec numbers from Surgex, et al identify consumers most easily deceived. No way around well proven science. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

 

[westom]

The HDMI cables at Monoprice, they don't say if they are THX certified so I was hoping that you can tell me what they mean by CL2 certified?

CL2 is a rating for wire insulation. More specifically, a human safety requirement if that wire burns. CL2 says nothing about a cable's electrical performance.

 

[Wotan31]

Surgex, Brickwall, Panamax, Belkin, Monster Cable, and grocery store protectors all meet the definition of ineffective. NIST bluntly defined these devices:
> ... surge protector will work by diverting the surges to ground. The best
> surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done
> properly.

Westom, how do you respond to the brickwall claims that their product has no sacrificial components, does not divert the surge to ground (to avoid damaging data processing equipment), and still protects attached equipment even after 1000 surges of 6000v, 3000A?

http://brickwall.com/nofail.htm

Also how do you respond to their "how it works" page which provides a schematic and some operational numbers?

http://brickwall.com/howwork.htm

Just curious why you think the information on these pages is somehow false.

Also, aside from whole house protectors, which plug-in "power strip" style protectors would you recommend? And why?

 

[westom]

Westom, how do you respond to the brickwall claims that their product has no sacrificial components, does not divert the surge to ground (to avoid damaging data processing equipment), and still protects attached equipment even after 1000 surges of 6000v, 3000A?

Do the numbers. A protector circuit designed for a classic surge (ANSI/IEEE C62.41) of 6000 v and 3000 A means it is rated for something much less than 500 joules. Destructive surges are typically hundreds of thousands of joules. That Brickwall is grossly undersized.

Yes. It does not have sacrificial components to be catastrophically destroyed - sacrificed - by absorbing too much energy. No surge protector is designed to be sacrificial. Sacrificial damage means operation well beyond what spec numbers define or what a manufacturer intended.

Why does nobody absorb and slowly release (use) energy from lightning? Even the Brickwall is only rated for less than 500 joules. Cannot absorb and slowly release surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules.

BTW, what is the amperage of an average lightning strike? 20,000 amps. What is the minimally acceptable 'whole house' protected rated to conduct? 50,000 amps. See those numbers for a protector that costs how many times less money than the Brickwall? The 'whole house' protector is designed for surge protection. Your Brickwall numbers are grossly undersized.

Brickwall, et al numeric specs do not claim what you are hoping or have assumed. Why did Brickwall, et al forgot to discuss a wire that bypasses its protection. Why would they hope you do not read what the NIST says:
> The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is
> not done properly.

For over 100 years, the effective solution has always been earthing. Numerous other options were provided including a cooperative landlord, a kludge solution, or the electric utility installation behind an electric meter. Also important is inspection of the primary protection system.

All appliances contain significant protection. So that a rare surge (ie once every seven years) does not overwhelm appliance internal protection, one 'whole house' protector is installed. Energy must be dissipated someplace. Surges are not blocked or stopped. Surges are diverted / bonded / connected / shunted / conducted to earth. This does not change no matter how many sales brochures spin it. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

See those numbers? The NIST says:
> You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
Brickwall numbers also confirm it will not stop, block, suppress, arrest, or absorb a surge.

The effective protector, proven by over 100 years of experience, has a short and dedicated connection to single point earth ground. Only then might a Brickwall, Surgex, or Zerosurge series mode protector supplement that protection.

 

[mvisocky]

Holy S***

I know this thread is extremely old, but here goes.

Westom, you make no sense.

First, your entire claim states that plug-in surge protectors don't seek true ground, correct? However, that is exactly where the third prong on an outlet goes, or should.

Second, would a whole house protector make sense? I would say yes if you were worried about protecting your light bulbs only. What about all the spikes every day appliances create? Just a thought since they account for more than 75% of electrical surges. This is not even mentioning coax cables... You do realize that whole house protectors come in many sizes and work the same way as plug-ins...? They either have MOV's or series conductors, the latter being the best and not rated in joules. Since we are on this subject, let's look at the "better" non sacrificial protector which uses capacitors. They actually start by sending energy to the neutral and eventually the ground while MOV types send directly to ground. Wait a second... If all MOV protectors, by definition, work by diverting electricity to ground, how do they not send electricity to ground?!?!

Third, your $50 whole house protectors actually have a lower joule rating than many $20 plug-ins, which you say must handle hundreds of thousands of joules that 3 miles of sky can't stop, which also makes no sense because without atmosphere lightning can't exist. Although i am sure you can disprove this by touting the ever present "Space lightning"...

Fourth, I kind of lost my train of thought... Oh yeah! You keep mentioning this 100 year proof thing and saying nobody offers data... where is yours'? Since things were a certain way 100 years ago they must stay that way, this is what you claim. Ok, so the Earth is still flat, the moon is made from cheese, cars will never fly.