MP 7,1 Most won’t be able to afford a new Mac Pro

[now i see it]

It's almost a certainty that the types of businesses/people the new MacPro is targeted towards don't have the time to play around on MacRumors. I now have time but no longer need a machine like that. But when I did need it, I sure as heck didn't have time to play around on rumors forums.

I think it's pretty safe to say that this new expensive monster computer wasn't intended for most of us. In 's eyes, were iMac & Mac mini fodder.

 

[AidenShaw]

I don't GAF if it's fast or not, it's just a bad user experience. You take an amazing server and put a trash OS on it and ruin the whole experience.

I understand now. I was unsure if you had an objective rationale or were making a purely emotional comment. Now I know.

 

[AustinIllini]

It's almost a certainty that the types of businesses/people the new MacPro is targeted towards don't have the time to play around on MacRumors. I now have time but no longer need a machine like that. But when I did need it, I sure as heck didn't have time to play around on rumors forums.

I think it's pretty safe to say that this new expensive monster computer wasn't intended for most of us. In 's eyes, were iMac & Mac mini fodder.

Good thing the iMac Pro is available and pretty amazing

 

[CWallace]

A Z8 is a dual-socket workstation. Dual-socket CPUs (even one of them) are much more expensive than single-socket Xeon-W CPUs. Chipset/motherboard costs are also higher.

My point is that features the Mac Pro offers - like a 1400 watt power supply and 1.5TB of RAM - are only available on the highest model from the Tier One PC OEMs and their base configuration prices are comparatively higher than the lower-tier models that do not offer those options.

Sure, the Mac Pro is expensive because it's a Mac and Apple charges a heavy premium. But it also has expensive components in it to support the high-end configurations it does.

 

[Quu]

On the bright side even if you cannot afford or justify the cost of a brand new Mac Pro today, it's an incredibly expandable system which will be hitting the used market for years to come.

Give it 5 years and these will be going on ebay for $1,000 and you'll be able to put a more modern graphics card in it at that time.

Look at the people on this forum still rocking the 2006-2012 era Mac Pro. Lots of them with modern NVIDIA and AMD graphics cards, PCIe based SSD's and so forth. We now have a new "skeleton" with a much more modern CPU architecture with which to grow on, we just have to wait for it to be iterated on a few times so the people who buy this one want to unload them in the used market.

The Trash Can 2013 model held its used value quite well because Apple never upgraded it. The D300, D500 and D700 graphics were all it ever got. But I don't think the same will happen with the new Mac Pro because it uses standardised parts (while also supporting the new MPX custom standard) and has enormous thermal capability enabling Apple to release newer parts more readily where as with the old Mac Pro they said it was thermally constrained.

As a product today, not very good value for prosumers or people who just want the best just to have it. It's clearly priced for working professionals who actually will use the machine for their livelihoods, not their hobbies. But in the used market we can all benefit from it existing.

I'll probably pick one up in 3-5 years myself out of the used market. I'm expecting that new 6K screen to remain pricey even in the used market as I don't see it being eclipsed by anything soon where as I expect Apple to continually upgrade this Mac Pro yearly or semi-yearly.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Apple is never going to build an xMac (as it has been called). The writing was on the wall the moment Steve Jobs unveiled the

How is this for professionals when even for them the price is ridiculous? 6 grand starting price? Can you imagine what the 28 core option will cost? Intel sells that processor for $3,000.

If anyone needs this much horsepower, just build a PC with an AMD 32 core 2990WX Threadripper for HALF the price.

Nope, the CPU that Apple will end up using is the Xeon W-3275M and it costs - $7453.00 from Intel - https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...n-w-3275m-processor-38-5m-cache-2-50-ghz.html - I expect the CPU upgrade for this to $15,000 alone.

The 3175X you speak of is an action only CPU and only supports 512GB of DRAM. Not enough for Apple, I guess.

 

[AdobeWanKenobi]

As excited we are with any announcement at WWDC, realistically, the majority of Mac enthusiasts likely won’t be able to afford a Mac Pro.

Prices will likely start around $5K, so unless you’re a professional, or a company that needs the horsepower, you might be better off with an iMac.

I doubt we’ll ever see a $1500-$2500 breakout tower. It’s not like the old days where a hobbyist can afford to tinker with an expansion slot based G4 Power Mac or Cheese Grater Mac.

As usual it will cost at least double what a PC will, and that PC will have at least triple the power and workflow throughput of the Mac "Pro". (Hey, Apple... "pro" doesn't just mean "the most expensive option"!)

 

[ssgbryan]

Good thing the iMac Pro is available and pretty amazing

As long as you don't mind it constantly throttling when you actually try to push the system.

 

[TJHanson]

As excited we are with any announcement at WWDC, realistically, the majority of Mac enthusiasts likely won’t be able to afford a Mac Pro.

Prices will likely start around $5K, so unless you’re a professional, or a company that needs the horsepower, you might be better off with an iMac.

I doubt we’ll ever see a $1500-$2500 breakout tower. It’s not like the old days where a hobbyist can afford to tinker with an expansion slot based G4 Power Mac or Cheese Grater Mac.

[doublepost=1559688197][/doublepost]Now that Congressional Republicans have the poor and middle class paying taxes for the rich; I cannot afford the new Apple technology. I'm hoping my MacBook Pro will last until we can get things reversed.

 

[jasnw]

Or are we artificially restricting our arguments only to Macs without displays?

Intentionally, not "artificially". This is a discussion strictly to the point of Apple's lack of viable non-AIO and non-laptop hardware between the Mac Mini and Pro. I would really like to have something from Apple the size of a mini-tower (not shaped like a trashcan!) that fits specs-wise between the Mini and Pro that has the same DIY access as a Pro system. I's have this discussion in a different thread in a different MR forum, but as with Apple MR gives no love to desktop systems outside the Mini, iMac, and Pro categories.

 

[gugy]

The MP and display are not expensive if you are bringing Thousands of $ daily. It is not costly if your line of work demands super high-end machines that need to deliver high-end work fast. It is not expensive for studios that deal with editing, high-end 3d renders, video/audio production, etc. On these places, they recoup the cost of such equipment pretty fast.

My grip is that as being a freelance designer, I wish Apple had an entry level MP with lower specs and 5K display at half of the cost of the announced base model equipment. Around $6/7k. That would give the purchasing power to lots of Pros and Prosumer folks that can't recoup that investment as fast as the places I mentioned above.

I think either Apple don't want to open this market in fear of eating sales of the MacMini/iMac/iMacPro or want to cater the very high-end not caring about the rest of the pro market.

I am just happy they finally have serious equipment out there. I am in love with the display. I guess I might end up financing it for 24 months or so. Either way if my current MP 2011/30" ACD can withhold all these years of hard work, in the long run, this equipment pays for itself over and over.

 

[JHankwitz]

As excited we are with any announcement at WWDC, realistically, the majority of Mac enthusiasts likely won’t be able to afford a Mac Pro.

Prices will likely start around $5K, so unless you’re a professional, or a company that needs the horsepower, you might be better off with an iMac.

I doubt we’ll ever see a $1500-$2500 breakout tower. It’s not like the old days where a hobbyist can afford to tinker with an expansion slot based G4 Power Mac or Cheese Grater Mac.

Most car owners can’t afford a Lamborghini. Guess what. Lamborghini’s are not made for most car owners just as this Mac Pro is not made for most computer owners. It’s about time Apple comes out with a computer designed for high-end use like they did when they released the Mac II FX. I paid over $12,000 for one of those way back then.

 

[foliovision]

Most car owners can’t afford a Lamborghini. Guess what. Lamborghini’s are not made for most car owners just as this Mac Pro is not made for most computer owners. It’s about time Apple comes out with a computer designed for high-end use like they did when they released the Mac II FX. I paid over $12,000 for one of those way back then.

What a specious argument. Lamborghini's are not practical cars or mass market. As far as I know Apple is still a mass market manufacturer just with a puffed up reputation given how crap the Windows alternative is. Apple is signed up to the same Prism programs (the year after Steve Jobs died, how convenient).

A better analogy in the car area would be Mercedes, though car to computer analogies are a bit weak (one is a massive items with huge manufacturing costs, the other is relatively inexpensive to manufacture).

Apple is trying to turn IT and computers into Swiss watches with the help of dunderheads like you. I for one am not boarding this train.

Quu above is talking the most sense of anyone on this thread:

On the bright side even if you cannot afford or justify the cost of a brand new Mac Pro today, it's an incredibly expandable system which will be hitting the used market for years to come. Give it 5 years and these will be going on ebay for $1,000 and you'll be able to put a more modern graphics card in it at that time....​

​

I'll probably pick one up in 3-5 years myself out of the used market. I'm expecting that new 6K screen to remain pricey even in the used market as I don't see it being eclipsed by anything soon where as I expect Apple to continually upgrade this Mac Pro yearly or semi-yearly.​

I own three Mac Pro Silver Tower 5,1 personally and another three in my company. All upgraded with SSD, USB 3, modern video cards, 4K monitors, some with AHCI flash drive. As with the Silver Towers, I'll wait on these. Not sure I'll take one though as if Apple locks down the OS any more and adds any more blatant spyware (there's about twenty channels on which Apple is constantly checking if you are awake or asleep, if you've been naughty or nice, cutting them all off is hard work and even then, when the app store is enabled to get a FCPX update, Apple can do whatever the heck they want with your computer).

In short, Linux is looking better and better. I'm just hanging out still thanks to the great third party developers who build marvellous applications like Acorn, DxO PhotoLab or Affinity Photo, or nvAlt or Peter Lewis with Keyboard Maestro, Typinator. Think hard gentlemen (and ladies if there are any present) before you give Apple any of your hard earned money. They haven't earned it since 2012.

 

[handheldgames]

Most car owners can’t afford a Lamborghini. Guess what. Lamborghini’s are not made for most car owners just as this Mac Pro is not made for most computer owners. It’s about time Apple comes out with a computer designed for high-end use like they did when they released the Mac II FX. I paid over $12,000 for one of those way back then.

When first introduced, the IIfx was offered in these configurations:

• Macintosh IIfx: 4 MB memory, 1.44 MB SuperDrive. $8,989 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/80: 4 MB memory, 80 MB HDD. $9,869 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/160: 4 MB memory, 160 MB HDD. $10,969 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/80 with Parity Support: 4 MB of parity error-checking RAM, 80 MB HDD.

Introduced May 15, 1990:

• Macintosh IIfx 4/80 with A/UX: 4 MB memory, 160 MB HDD, A/UX 2.0 preinstalled. $10,469 USD. Shipments began in June.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Bus transitions take years. PCIe 3.0 will be virtually the only option for the next year or two. You might find a few mobos that support 4.0 in the mid-term, but you won't find PCIe 4.0 cards in any reasonable quantities. Even if you have a system with PCIe 4.0 slots - you'll be filling the slots with PCIe 3.0 cards.

Perhaps there will be a stronger argument if the Mac Pro 2020 doesn't have PCIe 4.0 - but right now it should be a non-issue.

LOL. Ridiculous. The problem is Apple only upgrades the Mac Pro once a half decade at at most. So yes, it DOES matter. Given the timing and the way Apple USED to be run, they should have been there FIRST with PCIe 4.0, not LAST. But then Apple doesn't do anything FIRST anymore now does it?

 

[startergo]

When first introduced, the IIfx was offered in these configurations:

• Macintosh IIfx: 4 MB memory, 1.44 MB SuperDrive. $8,989 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/80: 4 MB memory, 80 MB HDD. $9,869 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/160: 4 MB memory, 160 MB HDD. $10,969 USD.
• Macintosh IIfx 4/80 with Parity Support: 4 MB of parity error-checking RAM, 80 MB HDD.

Introduced May 15, 1990:

• Macintosh IIfx 4/80 with A/UX: 4 MB memory, 160 MB HDD, A/UX 2.0 preinstalled. $10,469 USD. Shipments began in June.

Back in 1990 10,469$ was probably equivalent in price to $20,469.26 now
http://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1990?amount=10469

 

[AidenShaw]

they should have been there FIRST with PCIe 4.0

The MP7,1 is already five years late. PCIe 4.0 basically doesn't exist yet.

Should the MP7,1 have been delayed a couple of more years until PCIe 4.0 becomes established?

 

[TheRealAlex]

It's almost a certainty that the types of businesses/people the new MacPro is targeted towards don't have the time to play around on MacRumors. I now have time but no longer need a machine like that. But when I did need it, I sure as heck didn't have time to play around on rumors forums.

I think it's pretty safe to say that this new expensive monster computer wasn't intended for most of us. In 's eyes, were iMac & Mac mini fodder.

Keep in Mind What Apple is selling as a MacPro is not targeted at the $80,000 Workstation Class machines purchased by MutiBillion dollar organization, like SHELL, or BP AMOCO, or GE, or WETA Lights and Effects. These companies could care less. Because each HP Quadro GP100 Costs $9,000 and most machines have 2 and another 512GB of RAM

These companies don’t even waste effort marketing to mom and dad this level of complexity and hardware is strictly B2B
You won’t find this class of machinery at BestBuy or at an Apple store.

When they are looking for oil under the ocean and doing complex simulations of water pressure and terrain and more.

Apple’s MacPro is what a Rich Dentist buys because his daughter wants to be a clout chaser Youtuber. Or a weekend dad photographer thinks he needs a. MacPro to edit 4K wedding video

Just because you can go buy an AR-15 buy a scope and silencer, doesn’t make you a Navy SEAL, you have no training and can’t utilize those tool to their full potential.

This is all Apple marketing. The Same amateur ProSoomer who can afford to a buy a $6,000 6K MacPro Display is probably buying a $10,000 to $30,000 MacPro.


When legitimate Professional equipment would not only Not be offered to Joe off the street. The Prices are more like

$30,000 For a Sony Reference class 4K OLED. Used in every Hollywood Studio

Or an $80,000 HP Workstation, with Dual $9,000 NVIDIA GP100 graphics cards.

This gear most people Would break it, and won’t know how to use it properly.

 

[0388631]

PCIe 4 could come later. Technically, you don't need a new chipset to enable PCIe 4 support.
[doublepost=1559700071][/doublepost]

$30,000 For a Sony Reference class 4K OLED. Used in every Hollywood Studio

Not quoting this specifically, but I caught a post on a blog yesterday. Someone was curious how the new Apple display would perform against a standard reference monitor like the Sony or Eizos. I hadn't thought of that when that lady was doing the feature list of the new Apple display and explaining how they got around to fixing common issues.

 

[ssgbryan]

The MP and display are not expensive if you are bringing Thousands of $ daily. It is not costly if your line of work demands super high-end machines that need to deliver high-end work fast. It is not expensive for studios that deal with editing, high-end 3d renders, video/audio production, etc. On these places, they recoup the cost of such equipment pretty fast.

My grip is that as being a freelance designer, I wish Apple had an entry level MP with lower specs and 5K display at half of the cost of the announced base model equipment. Around $6/7k. That would give the purchasing power to lots of Pros and Prosumer folks that can't recoup that investment as fast as the places I mentioned above.

I think either Apple don't want to open this market in fear of eating sales of the MacMini/iMac/iMacPro or want to cater the very high-end not caring about the rest of the pro market.

I am just happy they finally have serious equipment out there. I am in love with the display. I guess I might end up financing it for 24 months or so. Either way if my current MP 2011/30" ACD can withhold all these years of hard work, in the long run, this equipment pays for itself over and over.

Worrying about eating Mini/iMac/iMacPro?

If they don't open this market, they will continue to bleed marketshare to PCs.

Those of us that need a new tower have looked at the Mini/iMac/iMacPro and have rejected them already.

 

[startergo]

PCIe 4 could come later. Technically, you don't need a new chipset to enable PCIe 4 support.
[doublepost=1559700071][/doublepost]
Not quoting this specifically, but I caught a post on a blog yesterday. Someone was curious how the new Apple display would perform against a standard reference monitor like the Sony or Eizos. I hadn't thought of that when that lady was doing the feature list of the new Apple display and explaining how they got around to fixing common issues.

Even PCIE5 is on the horizon...
http://pcisig.com/50-out-5-stars-pc...nnounce-support-pci-express®-50-specification

 

[0388631]

Even PCIE5 is on the horizon...
http://pcisig.com/50-out-5-stars-pc...nnounce-support-pci-express®-50-specification

Won't be commercially available for a few years, though. PCI SIG announced PCIe 4.0 back in 2011. After several delays and revisions it was re-announced in 2017. You're looking at 2024-2026 for PCIe 5.

 

[sgunes]

As a non-pro user I see them available for $4999 as a black-Friday special in 2020 (or maybe on the education store/refurbished with full warranty).
Memory, SSD's (m.2) and PCIe 3 graphics cards are all user upgradable.
That should give you a machine that works well for 5-7 years.

The comparison system at that point will probably be a 16-core Ryzen 3000 or 32-core Threadripper 2 with PCIe 4.
There are already Ryzen motherboards announced with Thunderbolt 3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/1445...st-flagship-motherboard-ever-with-thunderbolt

 

[gugy]

Worrying about eating Mini/iMac/iMacPro?

If they don't open this market, they will continue to bleed marketshare to PCs.

Those of us that need a new tower have looked at the Mini/iMac/iMacPro and have rejected them already.

Well, I agreed but I am trying to understand why Apple did not think of this yesterday launching it.
I don't get why they are alienating such a large portion of the Pro market with the base model prices.

 

[ssgbryan]

Correct. Most won't be able to afford one. The Mac Pro wasn't designed for most people.

Neither was any previous Mac Pro.

The original cheese grate was around $4000 and the Apple Cinema Display was another $3000.

People couldn't afford those almost 20 years ago either.

Your pricing is off and people most certainly could afford them.


In 2005, the PowerMac 11,2 started at $3,299
In 2006, the 1,1 started at $2,499

In 2007, the 2,1 started at $3,999 (8 cores - same as today, 12 years later - btw, none of the software could actually use those 8 cores - everything had gone back to single threaded poop during the PPC to Intel transition)

In 2008, the 3,1 started at $2,299
In 2009, the 4,1 started at $2,499
In 2010, the 5,1 started at $3,699 (By this point, most software could actually take advantage of all those cores)
In 2013, the 6,1 started at $3,999
In 2019, the 7,1 starts at $5,999 (8 cores, PCIe 3 which will EOL by release date, consumer grade gpu).

The $6K isn't the issue - the issue is how little you get for your $6K.
[doublepost=1559704338][/doublepost]

Well, I agreed but I am trying to understand why Apple did not think of this yesterday launching it.
I don't get why they are alienating such a large portion of the Pro market with the base model prices.

Because they are a luxury fashion brand that dabbles in computing.