Maybe if iOS and tablets came out 20 years ago when people weren't so attached to the idea of using a mouse, it would make sense to not support a mouse. Its too late, people are attached to the keyboard/mouse interface. They'll complain for the next 20 years if there continues to be no mouse support.
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iPad Mouse Support - The Missing Elephant
- Thread starter neteng101
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iOS is designed in a way that it literally does not need this. Both the hardware and the software were intentionally designed to be touched. The addition of the keyboard is an add-on for extended typing, but everything about iPads--from ground up--is for touch.
You may prefer it for your use case, but that isn't what you said.
Your arguments are exactly why a touch iMac or touch laptop don't make much sense.
While I wouldn’t care to have touchscreen capability on a 27-inch iMac, the thought of setting my iPad Pro on a table with its smart keyboard and being able to use a mouse to assist in word processing is certainly a noteworthy feature to have in iOS.
I can only speak for myself; I do not desire wholesale changes in UI to get mouse support, all I want is to have an alternative input method that makes certain interactions with the device easier and more accurate.
First of all, have you used the Keyboard Folio with the iPad? Using it this way is not at all touch-friendly. iOS DOES need a cursor when the iPad is docked on the Keyboard Folio. You can’t at all be productive if you’re constantly having to extend your arms to format your essay or multitask between apps or drag-and-drop files.
The on-screen keyboard is touch, yet Apple pushes real hard to use the iPad Pro with the Keyboard Folio. As you said, it’s an ‘add-on’, so is using a mouse/trackpad. Touch will always be the primary input for iPad, I think you missed my point or didn’t bother to read my post, because using a Keyboard Folio isn’t intuitive or practical without a cursor. Sounds arbitrary that you think a keyboard is an okay ‘add-on’, but a mouse is not. A mouse/trackpad and keyboard work in unison with one another, hands are placed comfortably on these tools, just like when you use both hands on the touch screen of an iPad, reaching out to the display is not at all practical.
Don’t BS that the Keyboard Folio is just for ‘extended typing’, when you got keyboard shortcuts to navigate in apps, between apps, or even control apps.
Also macOS runs iOS apps, iOS apps are designed for touch, yet they work just fine with a cursor, even better than on an iPad with a Keyblard Folio. So I find your whole post ridiculous. Using the Home and News app is much more practical on the Mac than it is on iPad with a Keyboard Folio.
When the display is nearly vertical, it becomes less touch-friendly. This is completely different than a touch screen Mac scenario. Let’s not be narrow minded here, and explore options. A cursor is needed to be used efficiently with the Keyboard Folio.
Apple’s current method is why the iPad with a Keyboard Folio just doesn’t work unless it has cursor support. At least not efficiently.
Funny how you're underlining all arguments that Phill Schiller is always giving why there will never be a touchscreen mac. It just doesnt work properly.
The thing with iOS how it is right now is just it would look extremely silly to have a cursor in there. Everything would need to be redesigned, and I dont see it happening in the foreseeable future, nor do I really miss a mouse to be honest.
You are right that iOS in its core is a touch OS. That's true. I disagree that it's enough though. I cannot type with iOS. The keyboard is not nice add-on for me, it's a necessity because otherwise I would not be able to be productive while typing. I cannot select properly text, I cannot edit properly either. I cannot format it properly (like supporting multi quotes in posts which require selecting of few lines of text). Again on iPhone I don't care about this, on iPad I do. And that's what I usually would do while browsing in internet, writing emails or typing documents. This is not just something that happens rarely for me, this is daily life. So using an iPad without keyboard is pointless for me.
I work 11 hours a day. If I have to use only iPad (no computer or laptop) for the typing I do relying on touchscreen and not mouse it would be a nightmare and I will end up with physical issues. Of course I have solved my case easy - iPads are used 1 and half hour a day, laptop 11 hours a day. However if someone wants to use the iPad like that they need a mouse. Hence the threads here.
And just so we are clear - yes I prefer it for my case because unlike others for me iOS is not OS that just works. It's OS that throws me hoops and makes me go to numerous workarounds to make it work.
Can't talk about iMac but I have laptop with touch screen and it works perfectly fine. Granted my laptop is Windows. Trackpad does not cover all cases and I do not want to carry around mouse with me all the time in work meetings. So I use the touch screen I have. Also in bed touch screen is far more useful than mouse or trackpad. It's just easier and faster. However when I use touch I don't use the keyboard. When I use the keyboard I don't use the touchscreen.
Isn’t that the case now? Consumers are looking to alternatives to the iPad Pro. The major problem with Chrome OS tablets is that the app ecosystem isn’t on par with iPad.
I think the major selling point with the iPad Pro is the app ecosystem and the whole Apple ecosystem that surrounds it. Of course, there are different perspectives in terms of why consumers choose the iPad Pro over the competitor.
But I don’t think mouse support will be a deciding factor in persuading the ones that look for alternatives to the iPad Pro. I think the issue holding back the iPad is a legitimate file system support (Files app is nice edition, but it needs more features) and unlocking USB-C to support storage peripherals.
I think consumers care more about that instead of mouse support. We live in this day in age where touch interaction trumps everything.
All this laptop talk? Remember Steve Jobs?? That guy? Yea he said iPads were supposed to fit in the space between smartphones and laptops NOT become a laptop. You guys, should get a Surface and call it a day. These threads of wildly cantankerous complaints are becoming boring.
It needs mouse support, it already has keyboard support...then it needs external hard drive support, it needs eGPU support, it needs root access with real file explorer...add all of that...and you have a...uhm...Mac?
You are right. iPads are not laptops. And we have seen more than one thread like that
.IMO the problem here is Apple advertises them as a laptop replacement. As a consumer I find this completely misleading and even arrogant. Come on Apple. It's not laptop and stop claiming that it's a laptop replacement and we won't have discussions like that.
I blame solely Apple marketing on this. When they say that iPads are laptop replacements, people expect iPads to be laptop replacements. And because they are not people start complaining and wanting features to be added.
Boring... and yet you take the time to read this thread and respond.
If you think that a Microsoft Surface is a proper replacement for an iPad Pro with keyboard and mouse support then it doesn't appear that you're understanding what us pro-mice-on-the-iPad use our iPads for and why we want mouse support.Mentioning Steve Jobs in any discussion is a sign of a weak argument. (funny how you didn't make reference to his disdain for a stylus) On day-1 of the 1st gen iPad, Apple released a keyboard dock. Apple provided support in iOS for bluetooth keyboards (that wasn't an accident). Apple now produces keyboard covers and promotes the iPad as a laptop replacement. Apple always understood and promoted the idea of an iPad being more than just a touch surface.
And yet Apple gives us that extremely silly cursor right now when using two fingers on the virtual keyboard, and no apps had to be redesigned to use it...
Why do you have the need to bring up irrelevant things such as Macs with touch screen? Like I said already, that’s a completely different scenario than implementing basic cursor support to iOS. And this has nothing to do with my thread.
Oh, but yes!! A Mac with a touch screen would be awful, right??? Not only is the UI small and not well-suited for touch, but the touch screen display would be vertical standing - awkwardly angled for touch, distant too, not as accessible, and not near our hands or keyboard! Not at all intuitive!! This method just won’t work! Oh, wait, iPads with a Keyboard Folio have this issue as well. You’re so right, this just doesn’t work!! I guess there is one same scenario after all!
Trying to do work on macOS with touch screen? As awful as using touch on iPad that’s docked on the Keyboard Folio!
Phil: “Can you imagine a 27-inch iMac where you have to reach over the air to try to touch and do things? That becomes absurd.”
Yeah, at least the Mac’s primary input is a cursor! An iPad’s primary input is touch!!
That absolutely can be absurd on the iPad using the Keyboard Folio, since TOUCH is the primary and ONLY input method. Yep. I enjoy having one arm up in the air as I format my entire essay, and then having to raise both arms to drag-and-drop images into said essay. Now this is absurd.
iOS wouldn’t look at all silly with a cursor, but it’s pretty dumb to judge it for how it ‘looks’. Okay lol. The idea of using a cursor should be OPTIONAL.
The cursor can disappear like on macOS, so even you don’t have to be offended that it’s always appearing there, but since it’s optional you won’t even SEE IT or USE IT at all, so go about your day as if cursors never existed for iPads.
You make it sound like Apple can’t rework things to make things more intuitive or practical.
Do you really believe they’re too incompetent to do it? Don’t have the skills to rework anything? It’s not like they had to redesign things in the past in order for it to work. I guess they’re lazy. I guess they hit a brick wall here. If they can’t even add cursor support, because they would have to ‘redesign everything’, than I guess they should stop trying to innovate. I hope you can sense my sarcasm.
Whatever, good for you that you don’t miss a mouse, not everyone is you. And my entire point is to have the feature optional like the Keyboard Folio and the Apple Pencil. No one can defend using touch on iPad when it’s docked on the Keyboard Folio as intuitive or practical.
Since when does a laptop solely identifies itself with a mouse/trackpad and a cursor? It’s literally just another input method.
Laptops can have cursors, laptops can have touch. Laptops and tablets can be whatever the hell they choose to be. They aren’t strictly tied to anything. They’re both portable computers.
Obviously the differentiating line between Mac and iPad is that the Mac is in a whole other league of its own because of its OS. And they differ with primary inputs. The iPad is just an extension of the iPhone with a bigger canvas and enhanced features. They’re different operating systems. One is mainly uses a cursor, the other is touch.
And why the hell would anyone who’s invested in the ecosystem/platform just switch to an entirely different OS and brand for cursor support. Everyone here is getting the wrong idea.
It’s literally just a cursor to complement the Keyboard Folio. An OPTIONAL way to interact with your iPad this way. Ya’ll are making it a bigger deal than it really is.
Okay, this guy has a point. I guess let’s keep the iPads as dumbed-downed worthless tools just for the sake of differentiating itself from the Mac / not being more intuitive and useful as a Mac.
This mindset is absurd.
We might would get mouse support from apple, but nearly everyone on this forum does not want mouse support, or integrated cursor support on a iPad.
I would love to see mouse support. But we will not get it.. because not enough people want it.
Apple would rather you buy a Surfacebook I guess.
Its like having a corvette with just rims, and no tires. A lot of power, but you can’t really use the power.
I would love to see mouse support. But we will not get it.. because not enough people want it.
Apple would rather you buy a Surfacebook I guess.
Its like having a corvette with just rims, and no tires. A lot of power, but you can’t really use the power.
These complaints about mouse support will continue until one of three things happen:
1. Apple gives in and introduces some form of cursor support.
2. Apple figures out a tablet-optimized text input method that’s comparable to the speed, accuracy, and practicality of a keyboard (preferably with a low learning curve).
3. Apple admits they were wrong to advertise the iPad as a “laptop replacement for many”.
The second would be by far the most ideal, but probably the most difficult, therefore the least likely. The third would never happen either. The first might. Or none of the above, and Apple will continue to ignore complaints.
People might continue to complain regardless if #3 happened, but I put it in because the only reason I personally believe that the criticism over the lack of cursor support is founded is because of how Apple advertised the iPad as “a laptop replacement for many”. If that’s true, then the iPad needs to have great text entry, because a core function of laptops “for many” is text entry (which Apple also believes because they put a keyboard in all the “laptop replacement” commercials with the iPP). And if it has to have great text entry, then it needs a keyboard because no other text input method compares (which Apple also believes because they made a keyboard for the iPP). And if you have a keyboard, then you have to stand your screen vertically (which Apple believes because that’s how they designed the keyboard). And if you have a keyboard and a vertical screen, then ergonomically touch is bad so you need a pointing device and cursor—here’s where Apple agreed VERBALLY yet completely stopped short. They have wedged themselves deep into a corner.
If they hadn’t advertised the iPad that way, I would say, “The iPad is what it is, not designed for serious text entry. We still have our laptops. No one has taken functionality away from us, Apple has only added to it. We simply need to choose our preferred weapon(s).” That’s still true of course, but now Apple deserves criticism on top of that.
1. Apple gives in and introduces some form of cursor support.
2. Apple figures out a tablet-optimized text input method that’s comparable to the speed, accuracy, and practicality of a keyboard (preferably with a low learning curve).
3. Apple admits they were wrong to advertise the iPad as a “laptop replacement for many”.
The second would be by far the most ideal, but probably the most difficult, therefore the least likely. The third would never happen either. The first might. Or none of the above, and Apple will continue to ignore complaints.
People might continue to complain regardless if #3 happened, but I put it in because the only reason I personally believe that the criticism over the lack of cursor support is founded is because of how Apple advertised the iPad as “a laptop replacement for many”. If that’s true, then the iPad needs to have great text entry, because a core function of laptops “for many” is text entry (which Apple also believes because they put a keyboard in all the “laptop replacement” commercials with the iPP). And if it has to have great text entry, then it needs a keyboard because no other text input method compares (which Apple also believes because they made a keyboard for the iPP). And if you have a keyboard, then you have to stand your screen vertically (which Apple believes because that’s how they designed the keyboard). And if you have a keyboard and a vertical screen, then ergonomically touch is bad so you need a pointing device and cursor—here’s where Apple agreed VERBALLY yet completely stopped short. They have wedged themselves deep into a corner.
If they hadn’t advertised the iPad that way, I would say, “The iPad is what it is, not designed for serious text entry. We still have our laptops. No one has taken functionality away from us, Apple has only added to it. We simply need to choose our preferred weapon(s).” That’s still true of course, but now Apple deserves criticism on top of that.
You put my thoughts into words so effectively and eloquently! This is exactly what I meant with my previous post when I said that for me the culprit of those threads is Apple's own marketing for the iPad Pros as laptop replacements.
What kind of work can you do better with a mouse? Try this: take a word, say "mousse" where you have insert the cursor after one of the s's and hit reverse in order to fix the typo. Maybe you can always insert the cursor at the proper place on the first try. I sure as hell can't.
If we were talking just the regular iPads, I would probably agree it's not going to happen, and would be of questionable utility anyway. But we're talking about the iPad pros, the machines Apple are really trying to push as 'laptop replacement' devices. So no, they are unlikely to basically get macOS stuck on them with a half hearted effort to make it touch friendly, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Apple at the very least open up the possibility of mouse support within apps - so the developers can bring apps across from Mac more easily and design apps that work across both. This is clearly the direction of travel. Ultimately, I wouldn't even be surprised to see an 'iOS Pro' fork that brings a lot more Mac functionality over to the iPad pros (floating window and multiple instances of apps; a more powerful files app, or even a full fledged finder implementation; mouse support etc) so they can really start competing in the surface dominated 2 in 1 market, while the regular iPads keep offering a more traditional iPad tablet-first experience.
Wow all those years I did spreadsheets on a 11" Macbook Air I should have been viewing only. Have you used an Apple TV remote? Its hardly what i would call a precise input method.
That's why they are called peripherals or accessories - they enhance the user experience for different tasks. A mouse or trackpad should be no different than a keyboard or pencil in this regard.
I agree when it is handheld or flat on the table, but if the iPad is propped up and being used with a keyboard it would be much easier to move the mouse to the cell.
If by "cell" you are referring to a spreadsheet, then absolutely.
You bring up a great point about using the iPad with a physical keyboard. I find that, at least for myself, when I'm using a physical keyboard I need a physical mouse. When I'm using the onscreen keyboard, I find less of a need. It seems like it should be a matched pair... physical keyboard and mouse, or onscreen keyboard and touch.