Mouse support

[sparksd]

Someone over on Reddit posted this link to a video on the AMAneo BTi - Assistive Mouse Adapter for iPad and iPhone -

Pricey at $497, but great for someone with special needs -

https://www.specialneedscomputers.ca/index.php?l=product_detail&p=5746

It would be interesting to know more about the iOS interfaces it uses.

 

[subjonas]

Someone over on Reddit posted this link to a video on the AMAneo BTi - Assistive Mouse Adapter for iPad and iPhone -

Pricey at $497, but great for someone with special needs -

https://www.specialneedscomputers.ca/index.php?l=product_detail&p=5746

It would be interesting to know more about the iOS interfaces it uses.

Very interesting, I didn’t know a third party could make something like this for iOS. I’m curious as to how it works.
Glad it exists for those who need it, but I think seeing it in action gives me a better sense of why Apple might not want to offer native mouse support. It makes the iPad seem more distant like a laptop. It loses the intimacy that I think Apple wants to be a core characteristic of the iPad.
Granted they gave the iPad a physical keyboard which partially takes away intimacy. I think that was a compromise they chose to make because it was a glaring necessity (bigger than mouse support). Unfortunately that created the mouse support problem. But a mouse would take that compromise even further, which I don’t think they’re willing to do. But who knows.

 

[richpjr]

Granted they gave the iPad a physical keyboard which partially takes away intimacy. I think that was a compromise they chose to make because it was a glaring necessity (bigger than mouse support). Unfortunately that created the mouse support problem. But a mouse would take that compromise even further, which I don’t think they’re willing to do. But who knows.

Not partially, it destroys it completely. it turns a device that is easy to use when handheld into an ergonomic nightmare when using the keyboard by requiring the user to constantly reach up to tap the screen for the many things that can't be done with keyboard shortcuts. There seems to be zero indication, sadly, of any mention of mouse support in any of the upcoming feature leaks and rumors in iOS 13 so I guess we'll continue to be stuck with a device that is less than it could be. I've brought up the point before on this topic that if Apple was so anti mouse/cursor then why do they tease us with a cursor when using the virtual keyboard and finger swipes and not give us the equivalent when using a physical keyboard?

 

[subjonas]

Not partially, it destroys it completely. it turns a device that is easy to use when handheld into an ergonomic nightmare when using the keyboard by requiring the user to constantly reach up to tap the screen for the many things that can't be done with keyboard shortcuts. There seems to be zero indication, sadly, of any mention of mouse support in any of the upcoming feature leaks and rumors in iOS 13 so I guess we'll continue to be stuck with a device that is less than it could be. I've brought up the point before on this topic that if Apple was so anti mouse/cursor then why do they tease us with a cursor when using the virtual keyboard and finger swipes and not give us the equivalent when using a physical keyboard?

The keyboard (and lack of mouse) may completely destroy ergonomics, but I only say it partially compromises intimacy because you still have/get to touch the screen. Mouse support would take the hands completely off the iPad, which would then completely destroy what’s left of intimacy.
Adding some sort of text cursor control to the physical keyboard is one thing I think Apple might still do. I was half expecting it on the latest keyboard folio. Maybe the next iteration.

 

[sparksd]

Very interesting, I didn’t know a third party could make something like this for iOS. I’m curious as to how it works.
Glad it exists for those who need it, but I think seeing it in action gives me a better sense of why Apple might not want to offer native mouse support. It makes the iPad seem more distant like a laptop. It loses the intimacy that I think Apple wants to be a core characteristic of the iPad.
Granted they gave the iPad a physical keyboard which partially takes away intimacy. I think that was a compromise they chose to make because it was a glaring necessity (bigger than mouse support). Unfortunately that created the mouse support problem. But a mouse would take that compromise even further, which I don’t think they’re willing to do. But who knows.

It may be an objection for some people to use a mouse on an iPad but there would be no requirement for them to use one. As with Android, if you don't use a mouse you don't even know that the support for it is there.

 

[subjonas]

It may be an objection for some people to use a mouse on an iPad but there would be no requirement for them to use one. As with Android, if you don't use a mouse you don't even know that the support for it is there.

Yeah but you know Apple—choice/freedom is not one of their core values...

 

[sracer]

Yeah but you know Apple—choice/freedom is not one of their core values...

Apple has had support for a hardware keyboard from day-1 of gen-1 of the iPad. Do they not give the user the choice/freedom to use a hardware keyboard.

Apple supports an active stylus. Users have the choice/freedom to use it or not use it.

Why do you think that support for mice/trackpads would be different?

 

[subjonas]

Apple has had support for a hardware keyboard from day-1 of gen-1 of the iPad. Do they not give the user the choice/freedom to use a hardware keyboard.

Apple supports an active stylus. Users have the choice/freedom to use it or not use it.

Why do you think that support for mice/trackpads would be different?

Yeah again I think it comes down to apple’s focus on the ipad’s intimacy (touching the device) and the level of compromise that Apple felt was necessary. Again, with the physical keyboard, Apple was probably willing to compromise because it’s really hard for most people to get by without it, and the keyboard only took away half the touching (intimacy). With mouse support, they probably felt it was less crucial and that it would take the hands off the iPad entirely, and then completely lose its identity (intimate) and take on the identity more of a laptop.

The pencil was probably tolerable because it’s a lesser compromise since it still keeps the iPad pretty intimate, while adding the ability to write and draw.

Just my theories, but who actually knows what’s going on in their heads.

 

[sracer]

Yeah again I think it comes down to apple’s focus on the ipad’s intimacy (touching the device) and the level of compromise that Apple felt was necessary. Again, with the physical keyboard, Apple was probably willing to compromise because it’s really hard for most people to get by without it, and the keyboard only took away half the touching (intimacy). With mouse support, they probably felt it was less crucial and that it would take the hands off the iPad entirely, and then completely lose its identity (intimate) and take on the identity more of a laptop.

The pencil was probably tolerable because it’s a lesser compromise since it still keeps the iPad pretty intimate, while adding the ability to write and draw.

Just my theories, but who actually knows what’s going on in their heads.

I can respect that. I'm just stating that the theory is actually based on Apple's historical track record.

But I'm still curious as to why you think that if Apple were to implement support for mice/trackpads that they would make the use of them mandatory? Or did you mean something else when you said, "Yeah but you know Apple—choice/freedom is not one of their core values..."

 

[subjonas]

I can respect that. I'm just stating that the theory is actually based on Apple's historical track record.

But I'm still curious as to why you think that if Apple were to implement support for mice/trackpads that they would make the use of them mandatory? Or did you mean something else when you said, "Yeah but you know Apple—choice/freedom is not one of their core values..."

Oh yeah I just meant Apple isn’t quick to allow options outside of those they deem “worthy”. So they don’t want to even allow the option of a mouse because of their controlling nature. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[RevTEG]

It seems Apple could add mouse support and have an option to turn it on or off in settings. If you want it then awesome. If you don’t no big deal. Options are good to have.

I haven’t owned a mouse since I sold my Compaq desktop 19 years ago. Haven’t even owned a desktop since. All laptops and then iPads. I personally use the trackpad On my MacBook and my finger on my iPad. I can’t even imagine what I’d need a mouse for. However, I’m not the only person in the world. Just seems supporting a mouse would be a good thing for those that want it.

 

[subjonas]

It seems Apple could add mouse support and have an option to turn it on or off in settings. If you want it then awesome. If you don’t no big deal. Options are good to have.

I haven’t owned a mouse since I sold my Compaq desktop 19 years ago. Haven’t even owned a desktop since. All laptops and then iPads. I personally use the trackpad On my MacBook and my finger on my iPad. I can’t even imagine what I’d need a mouse for. However, I’m not the only person in the world. Just seems supporting a mouse would be a good thing for those that want it.

I think in this context, when people say mouse support they usually mean both mouse and trackpad support. At least I do.

There seem to be a few different questions people are posing/answering here.
If the question is- why doesn’t Apple add a mouse option? Then I’d say it’s because they believe that the mouse doesn’t belong on the iPad, and they don’t want to add an option for something that they don’t believe in.
If the question is- should Apple add a mouse option? Then I’d say first it depends on if the iPad is to be considered a main productivity device for most people. If not, then there is no goal to reach, so mouse/no mouse doesn’t matter. If so, then it’s my personal opinion that the real problem is deeper than whether or not there is mouse support -but- mouse support is the only realistic immediate fix, so yes, for now there should be a mouse option.
If the question is- will Apple add a mouse option? (OP’s question) Then I’d say only Apple really knows, but it doesn’t look like it. They’re pretty stubborn about their philosophies, although they do change their stance from time to time.

Question to the knowledgeable: how possible/impossible is it for third party developers to build some kind of mouse support into their apps? Aren’t there third party apps that communicate with different kinds of third party accessories—whether over Bluetooth, lightning, or headphone port (eg. card reader)? Why can’t that accessory be a mouse? Why does the Citrix mouse work? Why does sparksd’s example work (even system wide)? I assume Microsoft would have already developed this into their iOS office suite and sold a compatible mouse if it were possible. Or is it only because Apple doesn’t allow apps with mouse support into their App Store?

 

[geekonthepc]

I entirely get the point that many people have made that having a mouse goes against much of what Apple stood for when they introduced the iPad with a touchscreen - but my argument is that the same point is contradicted with the Apple Pencil. Steve Jobs once said point blank we each have around 10 of the best styluses known to man - our fingers.

For me, I have the Smart Keyboard with the new iPad Air and would love the ability to have a mouse too. With a mouse, I really could use this as a laptop replacement.

If iOS 13 is going to have more desktop capable features, mouse support for those who want it seems sensible to me. The Surface Pro has it, most android tablets have it - while I’m never expecting and tablet to be fully optimised for a mouse - OS support would be much appreciated.

 

[RevTEG]

I think in this context, when people say mouse support they usually mean both mouse and trackpad support. At least I do.

There seem to be a few different questions people are posing/answering here.
If the question is- why doesn’t Apple add a mouse option? Then I’d say it’s because they believe that the mouse doesn’t belong on the iPad, and they don’t want to add an option for something that they don’t believe in.
If the question is- should Apple add a mouse option? Then I’d say first it depends on if the iPad is to be considered a main productivity device for most people. If not, then there is no goal to reach, so mouse/no mouse doesn’t matter. If so, then it’s my personal opinion that the real problem is deeper than whether or not there is mouse support -but- mouse support is the only realistic immediate fix, so yes, for now there should be a mouse option.
If the question is- will Apple add a mouse option? (OP’s question) Then I’d say only Apple really knows, but it doesn’t look like it. They’re pretty stubborn about their philosophies, although they do change their stance from time to time.

Question to the knowledgeable: how possible/impossible is it for third party developers to build some kind of mouse support into their apps? Aren’t there third party apps that communicate with different kinds of third party accessories—whether over Bluetooth, lightning, or headphone port (eg. card reader)? Why can’t that accessory be a mouse? Why does the Citrix mouse work? Why does sparksd’s example work (even system wide)? I assume Microsoft would have already developed this into their iOS office suite and sold a compatible mouse if it were possible. Or is it only because Apple doesn’t allow apps with mouse support into their App Store?

Agree. I wonder if Apple bases some of their ideas about mouse support on their number of mouse sales?
Two of my 3 kids are in school. They use iPads and MacBooks. They don’t own a mouse and it isn’t in the recommendations from their school. My wife went back to college, used her iPad and MacBook. No mouse. I have a MacBook and iPad, use them for work. I don’t own a mouse. The trackpad on my MacBook Pro really only helps my since there’s no touchscreen. I guess my family is now more accustomed to touchscreen than mouse support. We haven’t owned a desktop style computer in many years.

However, I’m probably not the norm? Although I think the younger generation and future generations are/will become more touch based than mouse. Still options are good to have.

 

[eneisch]

if you use Splashtop software to remote connect to a Mac/PC you can use the Swiftpoint GT mouse (but it costs $149).

 

[Wokis]

I could live with the way that the RealVNC App handles having to control a mouse cursor on the ipad. Make that system-wide! But having to lug along an actual mouse with the ipad sounds a little counter intuitive against the concept of the tablet. Maybe they could include a trackpad on the keyboard cover first and foremost and keep the actual physical mouse as a very very optional accessory.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Apple are literally leaving money on the table. Keyboard cover with trackpad. Cover with trackpad only. Apple ipad branded bluetooth mouse.

 

[Rogifan]

Hmm...if Apple brings mouse support to iPad there will be all sorts of calls to merge macOS and iOS and make touch screen laptops.

Steve Troughton-Smith (@stroughtonsmith)
4/22/19, 5:02 PM
If you missed last week's ⁦‪@_connectedfm‬⁩, ⁦‪@viticci‬⁩ had a pretty interesting scoop that he'd been sitting on re mouse support coming to iPad as an accessibility feature. As far as I'm aware, that *is* indeed in the works. I feel like every pro user will turn that on, day one

 

[subjonas]

Hmm...if Apple brings mouse support to iPad there will be all sorts of calls to merge macOS and iOS and make touch screen laptops.

Whoa! If true, that’s huge! And very surprising!

 

[charlituna]

is there any plan to have mouse support in the future for the iPad Pro 3rd gen.?
Thank.

Apple has been very clear. a tablet is a touch device, you want a mouse/trackpad then get a computer

 

[pmmacd]

Apple has been very clear. a tablet is a touch device, you want a mouse/trackpad then get a computer

Yeah but, remember what Steve Jobs said about stylus/pencils. And here we are

 

[charlituna]

Yeah but, remember what Steve Jobs said about stylus/pencils. And here we are

doesn't matter one fig what Steve said. he's dead. he's dead and gone and Tim Cook is in charge so really it only matters what Tim thinks.

and it was Tim that said Apple isn't going to make touchscreen computers or tablets with mouse support or merge the OSes Surface style.

so I guess when Tim has retired or died we can see what Tim 2.0 decides. maybe that person will decide that dumping all MacBook and iPad models for an Apple Surface is the way to go

 

[Trajan81]

doesn't matter one fig what Steve said. he's dead. he's dead and gone and Tim Cook is in charge so really it only matters what Tim thinks.

and it was Tim that said Apple isn't going to make touchscreen computers or tablets with mouse support or merge the OSes Surface style.

so I guess when Tim has retired or died we can see what Tim 2.0 decides. maybe that person will decide that dumping all MacBook and iPad models for an Apple Surface is the way to go

I believe the point being made is Apple has a long history of saying certain ideas are bad ideas and make no sense until they come up with a way to do it that makes sense...then it is magical and revolutionary unlike anything we have ever seen.

Does that mean Apple will eventually bring mouse support to iOS? Not really. Given their history of contradicting their past “never” statements I don’t think one can say it will won’t happen either.

Personally speaking, mouse support on the iPad isn’t high on my wishlist. I can see the value and would use it if it existed, but I get by just fine without it.

 

[tps3443]

First of all I loved that video of that box that turned the iPad Pro 2018 in to a tablet with mouse support, and another thing. I’m with the idea that a iPad doesn’t really need a cursor, because it is just so easy to touch something, and it’s just faster. Now for things like external monitors, or typing on a keyboard you really need a mouse instead of tapping on the screen though. So a cursor makes a lot of sense sometimes.

Apple could update iOS 13, add in the few tweaks that would make touch input work better in conjunction with a cursor too. And then they could sell a iPad mouse as a additional accessory for around $150 bucks easily! It could pair directly to the iPad pro’s and we now have a mouse.

I just think it is silly to have external monitor features, but it is all useless because we can’t lay our tablet down to even enjoy the external monitor..

Apple should create there own branded mouse that only works with the iPad. And everyone and there brother would buy one.

 

[symphony]

A lot of people here who are against a mouse or cursor support just can’t seem to comprehend that this method of input does not—or will not replace ‘touch’, as ‘touch’ will always be the primary method. iOS was designed this way. However macOS wasn’t designed for ’touch’ either, yet iPad apps work just fine on macOS, they work great with a cursor too.

People who can not comprehend that, can't also realize the efficiency and practically of it. Using ‘touch’ when the iPad is flat (or slightly angled) on a surface; resting the iPad on your stomach; resting the iPad above your arm; or any scenario where your hands are parallel with the touchscreen is the best scenario to use ‘touch’. You are never going to need to use a mouse/cursor in this position at all.

The only scenario where a mouse/cursor is needed is when the iPad is docked on the keyboard folio where touching the display is obscured with the angle. You can’t intuitively use ’touch’ this way. You’ll have trouble interacting with the lower half of the display because it can’t register the tip of your finger or your nail gets in the way. Precision isn’t so great either, formatting your essay wouldn’t be intuitive at all.

Anyway, the reason most of you don’t want to see Apple implement a mouse/cursor support is because you want to arbitrarily distinguish a tablet and a computer. Which is a ridiculous mindset in itself — for us to hit roadblocks and inconvenience ourselves just to set rules on what input a device can have... when the fact of the matter is, a Mac and iPad differs by operating system and their primary input (that was designed for it). That doesn’t mean it isn’t possible for these devices to have a secondary input. Actually, the iPad already has, if we exclude the keyboard, the Apple Pencil is another input. And just like the keyboard folio and Apple Pencil, these are OPTIONAL, none of these are meant to replace your software keyboard, finger, and touch. Having an OPTION wouldn’t affect you at all. If you wanna live inefficiently because you want to differ a computer and tablet, by all means, don’t use it. You don’t have to. Nobody is forcing you to.

For people who are against touchscreens on Macs because the UI is too small and using touch isn’t as practical as using a mouse, the same can be said with using an iPad with a keyboard. When the iPad is positioned like that, it is no different than a laptop. But this is where the iPad is gimped, using ‘touch’ while docked is no where near efficient and intuitive as a laptop with a trackpad. A (MacBook) laptop is the exact same setup as an iPad (tablet) when on a keyboard folio.

The reason the MacBook is superior than the ‘iPad on a keyboard folio’ is because our hands are already resting, they’re always resting somewhere, and they’re likely resting on the palm rest near the keyboard. So reaching over to the trackpad is a far more better experience since the trackpad and keyboard are right beside each other, which requires very little effort/movement.

Compare that to the ‘iPad on a keyboard folio’: You must raise your arm and reach out to the display while trying to avoid hitting the display with your nails to have touch be registered. Your arms will be extended for a long period of time too if you are browsing a feed, editing an essay, adjusting a layout, dragging-and-dropping, composing and editing an image/video, etc.

With a MacBook, you can accomplish all this with comfort by resting your hands on a surface. Keep in mind when your arm is lifted, you are less precise too, meanwhile on the Mac, your hands are stationary which gives you more precision than having your hands wander off while they’re raised.

Another superior way the MacBook exceeds an ‘iPad on a keyboard folio’ is the range of movement. The trackpad is small, yet the cursor can reach end-to-end of a 15” display just by accelerating your finger. Your hands hardly move at all, meanwhile your arms don’t move at all!

Now with an iPad with a keyboard folio, you’ll be doing a ridiculous amount of gestures. You have to raise your arm, reach your hand on the right-hand of the display then physically drag your hand in a wide-range motion to the other end of the display. A one-time task is no big deal, but when you’re trying to be productive or having to repeat the same task over and over again? NO, a cursor is superior, and is needed when the IPAD IS ON A KEYBOARD FOLIO, not when the device is used on its own, it’s not meant to replace touch either.

Phil Schiller was even quoted that using ‘touch’ on a big iMac display is crazy because your arms will always be up, that’s the same idea with the iPad, 13” is still crazy. Having your arms up regardless is never a good user experience. I don’t enjoy browsing Reddit when I have to scroll the feed by raising my arm, while my other arm is typing on the keyboard in Notes. Drag-and-drop on iPad while on the keyboard folio is awful, both arms need to be extended and used, then you need to move your arms to one end. That isn’t as efficient as a trackpad which requires little movement. You can also not interact with external monitors too.