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Microsoft's faststartup doesn't require anything in the Bios. Window 8 and up support it .. so any PC sold in a store, have a Windows with Fast startup enabled.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/jj835779(v=vs.85).aspx

I have to be more specific.

If you don't have the fast boot option set in BIOS, Windows will give you these shut down options:

Sign Out
Sleep
Shut down
Restart

I have fast boot disabled in BIOS, on one the most modern Skylake motherboards available. See attached image.

These are normal options that won't create or use a hibernation system file to speed up the booting process. Extra options appear if you enable fast boot or hibernation.

I could enable fast booting but I don't see the point. Relying on the hibernation file can create errors over time. It only takes about 10 seconds to load Windows anyway.
 

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I think that lately the mood is pretty dark here in the Mac Pro forum. Perhaps the light and dark sides have been reversed!

The dark side will have new force: bash shell is coming to new Windows 10 update soon.
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Windows 10 boots very fast because it doesn't really shutdown when you tell it to. It's a feature you can toggle on/off, it you set it to off, you will have Windows 7 like speed. I don't really see a reason to turn it off, I enjoy the speed.

Isn't OS X using similar thing? Since Mavericks, OS X boot in just around 15 seconds with SSD in my MacPro after startup chime.
 
The dark side will have new force: bash shell is coming to new Windows 10 update soon.
[doublepost=1466865894][/doublepost]

Isn't OS X using similar thing? Since Mavericks, OS X boot in just around 15 seconds with SSD in my MacPro after startup chime.

OSX doesn't use hibernation files. There are tricks to activate it. The system boots faster in recent years because of the move to SSDs and the removal of a lot of 32 bit and legacy junk.
 
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They'll have a new tube this year for sure; there are numerous leaks indicating TB3, Broadwell-EP, AMD Polaris, etc.

I want to believe the "Mac Pro Rising" rumor, but it's contrary to online leaks and what I've been hearing in meatspace.
 
The dark side will have new force: bash shell is coming to new Windows 10 update soon.
[doublepost=1466865894][/doublepost]

Isn't OS X using similar thing? Since Mavericks, OS X boot in just around 15 seconds with SSD in my MacPro after startup chime.

it's a possibility but I didn't found official documentation on the Mac side. Some people turn it off in Windows but I don't mind the updates related restriction
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I have to be more specific.

I have fast boot disabled in BIOS, on one the most modern Skylake motherboards available. See attached image.

These are normal options that won't create or use a hibernation system file to speed up the booting process. Extra options appear if you enable fast boot or hibernation.

I could enable fast booting but I don't see the point. Relying on the hibernation file can create errors over time. It only takes about 10 seconds to load Windows anyway.

even with FAST BOOT disabled, Windows still uses FAST STARTUP. that is still why it boots fast. I tested over and over, FASTBOOT doesn't change a thing. FAST STARTUP is still active, try do disable it and take real measure, you should see a difference.
 
They'll have a new tube this year for sure; there are numerous leaks indicating TB3, Broadwell-EP, AMD Polaris, etc.

I want to believe the "Mac Pro Rising" rumor, but it's contrary to online leaks and what I've been hearing in meatspace.
If it's a new tube, then expect it to suffer from exactly the same problems as the present model.
Namely overheating.

Secondly, Polaris 10 is just way, way too low end for the kind of machine the Mac Pro aims to be. It'd probably be ok for the iMac, but seriously...

I too kind of want to believe the "Mac Pro Rising" rumor, but it sounds too good to be true, even if it only comes in a single CPU config, the fact that it seems to only have 2*6pin connectors, sounds like a deal breaker. Where's that GPU power that was so much touted when the 6.1 got announced back in 2013?
 
even with FAST BOOT disabled, Windows still uses FAST STARTUP. that is still why it boots fast. I tested over and over, FASTBOOT doesn't change a thing. FAST STARTUP is still active, try do disable it and take real measure, you should see a difference.

Ah I've always learned that for fast start to be enabled then hibernate has to be enabled too.

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-fast-startup-turn-off-windows-10-a.html

'Fast startup requires that hibernate be enabled. If you only want to use fast startup and don't plan on using hibernate, then you can specify the hiberfile type as reduced to significantly reduce the size of the hiberfile (C:\hiberfil.sys) to about half of its full size. If you disable hibernate, then it will also disable fast startup.'


So now I've enabled hibernate. Then tested..

1. Selected Hibernate from the menu.
2. Windows saved memory contents to disk.
3. When I booted it took longer to boot than usual because obviously the system also reloaded the apps and documents that were still in memory when it saved the hibernation file.
4. So I closed all apps. Did a full shut down and rebooted.
5. Windows still loaded in the standard 12 seconds.
6. I set it to hibernate again, without opening any apps this time.
7. Booted from the hibernation file. Windows still loaded in 12 seconds.
8. Did a full shut down, went into the BIOS, enabled Fast Boot (see image)
9. System boot up in 7 seconds

So you see, you really really must enable it in BIOS otherwise the boot time doesn't really change and it won't access the settings Windows saved on the drive to speed up loading.

For fun, I then proceeded to test the Ultra Fast boot option in my BIOS. Still about 7 seconds, so that's about as fast as it is going to load with the OS support, BIOS support and Samsung Evo 850.

I'll keep it on regular Fast Boot just in case the Ultra could be unreliable.
 

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First, I want to thank all of you who shared your experiences. It was very helpful!

Ah I've always learned that for fast start to be enabled then hibernate has to be enabled too.
Where the hell do you learn all this stuff? I bookmarked your links but it still sounds a bit confusing especially when laptops have hibernation files but desktops don't? Desktops also have InstantGo? You also said in a previous post that hibernation files can lead to errors over time. Would they be related to issues when booting because they are snapshots of the state the computer was in at shutdown?

This is the kind of thing that rattles me a bit since Apple takes care of all this for the user. There must be similarities since both systems use the same hardware but Apple really hides it well.
 
First, I want to thank all of you who shared your experiences. It was very helpful!


Where the hell do you learn all this stuff? I bookmarked your links but it still sounds a bit confusing especially when laptops have hibernation files but desktops don't? Desktops also have InstantGo? You also said in a previous post that hibernation files can lead to errors over time. Would they be related to issues when booting because they are snapshots of the state the computer was in at shutdown?

This is the kind of thing that rattles me a bit since Apple takes care of all this for the user. There must be similarities since both systems use the same hardware but Apple really hides it well.
What is to follow is the single, most important piece of advice I can provide to any computer user (including Apple): Don't mess with it. Leave it alone. Unless you know what you're doing do not try to optimize it. Do not try to "clean" it up. Just turn it on, use it, then turn it off (whatever "off" means). I swear people are their own worst enemy as they try to improve Windows. The best thing you can do is leave it alone.
 
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First, I want to thank all of you who shared your experiences. It was very helpful!


Where the hell do you learn all this stuff?

After 40 plus years of using technology fanatically one tries to constantly stay up to date and find out how new things work.

Re: Windows recognises when it is installed on a laptop, and hardware manufacturers make sure the pre-loaded OS is configured for mobile use. So things like fast booting, hibernation, etc are already enabled.

If you build your own PC you have to go through the power management settings to configure things to your needs. By default I didn't have hibernation enabled in Windows, and in the BIOS fast boot was set to normal by default.

Yes Apple does a good job at hiding some of these options but for Windows users who have more varied uses than Mac users this wouldn't be good. They need to configure different power options for different working environments and configurations.

Apple does some fast boot optimising in their system management controller. This can be seen quite clearly in the different boot times of a cMP and nMP using the same SSD. The nMP will start to load from the SSD quicker and the boot process is also faster. Macs have always been good at saving user settings to NVRAM and may also be using some other info to help the nMP boot quickly.
 
What is to follow is the single, most important piece of advice I can provide to any computer user (including Apple): Don't mess with it. Leave it alone. Unless you know what you're doing do not try to optimize it. Do not try to "clean" it up. Just turn it on, use it, then turn it off (whatever "off" means). I swear people are their own worst enemy as they try to improve Windows. The best thing you can do is leave it alone.
Thanks for the advice. I'm not the type who wants to fiddle with things but become curious when I see fiddling mentioned as often as I do. Even HP and Dell market utilities that will modify settings on the fly to optimize the computer for the application that is running. They both seem to make a selling point out of these utilities. Makes me wonder if you optimize for one application and then open another, will the computer be worse off than leaving it at it's default settings?
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm not the type who wants to fiddle with things but become curious when I see fiddling mentioned as often as I do. Even HP and Dell market utilities that will modify settings on the fly to optimize the computer for the application that is running. They both seem to make a selling point out of these utilities. Makes me wonder if you optimize for one application and then open another, will the computer be worse off than leaving it at it's default settings?
Can you elaborate on which utilities you're referring to? Personally my recommendation is to dispense with all utilities which attempt to optimize Windows. Windows doesn't need optimized. If Windows could be optimized further doesn't it make sense Microsoft would implement such optimizations? What could HP or Dell possibly know about Windows optimization that Microsoft does not?
 
Can you elaborate on which utilities you're referring to? Personally my recommendation is to dispense with all utilities which attempt to optimize Windows. Windows doesn't need optimized. If Windows could be optimized further doesn't it make sense Microsoft would implement such optimizations? What could HP or Dell possibly know about Windows optimization that Microsoft does not?
Here's a link to HP's version:
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/performance-advisor.html
They have independent software vendors like Adobe who recommend what settings work with their apps and HP puts those settings into the utility which allows you to change them on the fly.
 
Ah I've always learned that for fast start to be enabled then hibernate has to be enabled too.

I doublechecked, the confusing part is that Windows doesn't show 'faststart' as disabled, even when the prerequisite is not there. I did run some numbers and on my build having both fastboot (ultra quick) and faststart = on resulted in the worst performance +4 sec.

Turning faststart off and leaving fastboot on, I got the same results as having both settings off.

thanks for the precision! I will check my machine at work (DELL XPS) to see if it comes with the fastboot enabled in the Bios!

thanks
 
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I doublechecked, the confusing part is that Windows doesn't show 'faststart' as disabled, even when the prerequisite is not there. I did run some numbers and on my build having both fastboot (ultra quick) and faststart = on resulted in the worst performance +4 sec.

Turning faststart off and leaving fastboot on, I got the same results as having both settings off.

thanks for the precision! I will check my machine at work (DELL XPS) to see if it comes with the fastboot enabled in the Bios!

thanks

That damn Ultra Fast mode I enabled was a pain in the ass because it disables the USB drivers until the OS loads, which means you can't get back into the BIOS if you have a USB keyboard. I had to download Gigabyte's apps to reset everything from Windows.

I also noticed that Ultra Fast mode initialised the SSD slower, so it isn't ultra anything.
 
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If it's a new tube, then expect it to suffer from exactly the same problems as the present model.
Namely overheating.

Secondly, Polaris 10 is just way, way too low end for the kind of machine the Mac Pro aims to be. It'd probably be ok for the iMac, but seriously...


True, and True. But my thinking is that the low TDP Polaris may be Apple's solution to the Tube's overheating issues. And if the external GPU rumor is true, then Apple can gimp the Tube's GPUs and sell Tube buyers a powerful Apple-branded eGPU. It's a win/win for Apple.
 
And if the external GPU rumor is true, then Apple can gimp the Tube's GPUs and sell Tube buyers a powerful Apple-branded eGPU. It's a win/win for Apple.
So at that point, the tube would just contain the CPU, memory and a PSU to power them?
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The best use of this utility to improve the PCs performance is to uninstall it.
Thanks. That's one less selling point:)

If I go to PC, maybe I would be better looking at a custom builder instead of the big names.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'm not the type who wants to fiddle with things but become curious when I see fiddling mentioned as often as I do. Even HP and Dell market utilities that will modify settings on the fly to optimize the computer for the application that is running. They both seem to make a selling point out of these utilities. Makes me wonder if you optimize for one application and then open another, will the computer be worse off than leaving it at it's default settings?
I've been using Windows on a daily basis since 3.1, mostly in work environments since the early '90s. I don't do IT professionally, but I've always been the "computer guy" wherever I've worked, and for my family and friends. I've worked with many "typical" users both Windows and Macs.

Regarding the Windows system updates specifically - that has historically been a major issue - pre W10, it was quite common to have updates fail to install, and it could turn into a major headache of trying to figure out the dependencies. I'm only administering about a dozen W10 installs at the moment, but they've been relatively problem free in that regard, so I'm hopeful those days are behind us.

Windows 10 is fast, very stable, and secure. It's UX is a bit messy, stuck somewhere between desktop Windows 7 and touch-frinedly W8, but at least it's not the mess W8 was, and vast majority of the time, users are just on the basic desktop/applications they use every day anyway, and those are pretty much the same whether you're using a Mac or Windows. Personally, I think UX has gone way downhill on all platforms over the last few years, but with the exception of W8 itself, that's been mostly an issue of the apps/web more than the OS.

The utility you linked to is mostly to make it easy to look up the specs/driver info your computer when dealing with support issues, and in some cases to select the appropriate GPU driver for your application suite and/or tune the driver settings for that application, similar to what's done with popular video games. For the applications you're going to be using, it won't be of much use. Honestly I haven't agreed with many posts in this forum from ITG2016, but I've given that same advice many times before - unless you really know what you're doing, just let the OS do it thing and don't mess with the settings, and stay away from the crapware.

In my experience, hands down, I have less support issues with Macs than with Windows, and issues with Macs are generally easier for "typical" users to figure out. Everything from updates to drivers to installing apps is easier and less problems than on Windows. There is generally more "fiddling" necessary on Windows than Macs, though a lot of that is based on personality - some people just like to fiddle with stuff. ;-)

Apple is far from perfect, and their reputation as "easier to use" is very nuanced in reality - it's really the little stuff, usually good, but sometimes bad. However, most typical users who have used both, I've found they prefer Macs by far.

This is the only computer forum I'm on and figured that I could communicate with people who know Windows as well as Mac so I could get an informed view. Again, I am sorry for any misunderstanding.

Just keep in mind that most of the users offering advice are not representative of "typical" users or don't really have the knowledge and perspective to offer good advice, and worse, they often fail to understand that (and that's not directed at anyone in this thread, just saying in general). A lot of users here tend to think that tracking down a driver issue and getting it fixed is just a matter of "these five steps" or whatever, and it wouldn't even be worth mentioning, when the reality is that 90% of users will be completely stuck and/or very frustrated that they have to spend time trying to figure that out. That seems to happen a lot less on Macs than on Windows.

Just my 2 cents.
 
If I go to PC, maybe I would be better looking at a custom builder instead of the big names.
A clean install on a big name wipes all those tools. I usually do that - although I do reinstall the vendor's tool to check for firmware and driver updates.

The big name will come to your home or office the next business day for three or four years to fix any problems.

The custom builder might not be around next week.
 
In my experience, hands down, I have less support issues with Macs than with Windows, and issues with Macs are generally easier for "typical" users to figure out. Everything from updates to drivers to installing apps is easier and less problems than on Windows. There is generally more "fiddling" necessary on Windows than Macs, though a lot of that is based on personality - some people just like to fiddle with stuff. ;-)
Like I said in another post, it comes down to a choice between hardware and OS. Apple has a nice OS but is a bit lacking on the hardware side and PCs have better hardware choices but a tad lacking on their OS. It's not an easy choice for a longtime Mac user by any means. I will say that during my research on the subject, that HP is specifically courting Mac defectors and the custom PC company I contracted said that they have had a number of Mac users contacting them. This makes me question if Windows is as intimidating to deal with as I thought.
 
Windows question: Is the frequent updating of Windows problematic? My friend who does IT says he has had issues with Them. "Updates that if they fail, you are hosed. I'm referring to basic security updates and minor OS updates. Once they occur, getting it sorted out is nearly impossible. Usually need to do an OS re-image". I presume he was referring to a full restore of data?
This is one of the main reasons I got a Mac. Updates are mandatory in Windows 10. There are ways around it, at least for now. An update in the future could prevent those ways. We just don't know. Of course new methods to prevent updates will then be found, until those are potentially stopped; cat and mouse game. I'm told that with the new procedures MSFT has put in place, there's less chance of a widespread 'bricking' update. I hope they're successful with it, but it's not for me.

Your friend is right about system images or clones, no matter the OS. To have the ability to painlessly revert to a known stable point, after a bad update or a malware incident, is priceless. Whichever OS you choose, learn about the softwares available to accomplish this. It's time well-spent.
 
This makes me question if Windows is as intimidating to deal with as I thought.

It's only intimidating because you aren't familiar with it. I have been using Windows befor it was Windows as MS Dos and a few years ago when I was looking for a new computer I decided to switch over to a Mac because I hated the looks of Windows 8 and I didn't need MS anymore for my engineering and design business because I retired.

Windows 10 is a very good operating system and I would recommend it. It's not as pretty nor simple as OS X only because Widows offers a lot of setting and customization. You really don't have to touch the OS setting except for customization to overall aesthetic appearance.

Any drivers needed should be downloaded from manufacturer's website as related to video cards or other components.

Learning new OS's can always be intimidating but there is always help through Google or forums. If Widows offers the hardware you want then go for it.
 
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