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My iPad is Collecting Dust, Thinking Surface Pro 3
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Thread started life in the iPad forum.
This is a problem with the way thread movement is handled on this site. IMO, a thread that has been moved should have a marker identifying where it was moved from and when within the thread it was moved.
On the first to Surface tablets, there were instructions on how to install OSX on them. It can be done on the SP3 now as well.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/29u359/osx_109_running_on_surface_pro3/
Not sure how functional it is. I didn't read all the comments.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/29u359/osx_109_running_on_surface_pro3/
Not sure how functional it is. I didn't read all the comments.
Ah, thank you. I did not know that, thanks for letting me know. It does seem kind of like bait posted there. I retract my comment from those that commented there,
I disagree, I find my iPads (currently have 3, iPad 3, iPad mini, iPad Air) extremely useful with or without the first party Smart Covers, and so I find this argument to be a very strange one. In fact with my iPad mini, I often set the cover aside for reading in bed or even watching a movie. I can easily hold it or lean it up against something without any concern for blocking the fan vents, because there aren't any.
It's all about the apps. I've got apps that give me a great interface to many routine tasks that are optimized for the iPad. For example, Google Inbox for iOS has been great. It's a terrific interface for a mobile device or tablet.
Anyhow, here's one place where I have found the SP3's embedded kickstand to be problematic for me given my needs and workflow. I use my iPads to read a lot of PDF documents. These are all formatted in portrait, and this is the best way to view them. If I want to use the kickstand, it forces me back to landscape like a notebook.
Thinking about it, I think this is one of the main issues I have with the DVP8. I find it much less useful in portrait than it is in landscape. Using the SP3 as a slate in landscape it might feel less heavy than in portrait due to the lever arm, but then it wouldn't fit my needs.
So for my use case, as a slate, the kickstand becomes a non-feature that adds weight to the device and as any moving part has the potential to break. However I could easily go get a case that would let me stand up the iPad in portrait, if I thought it needed one.
The bolded bit is what Apple is exactly how Apple is targeting the product. They want you to know that you're compromising something on "best" or "most simple" when you choose something else.
The iPhone 6 and 6+ and other phablets are definitely overlapping the iPad's area of use more than in the past. I find I can get away with doing things on my 6 that I wouldn't have even tried on my 5. Yet I'm still more productive on my iPad mini (non retina) than on my 6.
FWIW my company is actively looking at making the SP3 our new default notebook for new hires. We're still trying to figure out if the i5 model might be good enough or if we really want/need the i7 for our engineers. (We do a fair amount of heavy computation on our notebooks, so the extra power would be useful, but the heat/noise might not be welcome).
The Lenovo T431s boxes we use today have been decent MBA alternatives, and have the best touchpads I've had on a PC, but most of our users carry a mouse or trackball because we also find it annoying for long term usage. (Not something I have found with any of my Macs).
B
Did you actually bother to read the quote I was responding to, or was it post first, comprehend later?
Allow me to assist:
Don't even try and offer some insane argument that the built in stand on the SP 3 isn't useful and is somehow a "bad" thing. And further, that the iPad without a stand is just fine and useful for watching movies or anything really, etc. All of which are things implicit and explicit in your post.
First, the SP 3 kickstand. It's one of the most innovative hardware features of anything in the tech world today. The hinge on the Lenovo Yoga Pro 3 is equally impressive. With the SP 3, the million degrees of freedom enables tons of flexibility in how you use the device, whether you're using the keyboard with it in "laptop mode", or using the stylus for things like art... The stand laudable. No, it doesn't do portrait mode. But the device is more geared landscape and it functions excellently in laptop mode, for watching movies, and surfing the web and reading. Further, most iPad stands don't do portrait either. And the ones that do, many of them don't do it well.
Second, the iPad without a stand is simply not as good as an iPad with a stand. Holding a device like the iPad while watching a movie is absurd. Nobody would want to do this, for the most part. There are times when the simplicity, etc. of the iPad really shines, like when laying on the couch surfing the Web. But without a stand it's lacking in usability and very limited.
The cool thing about the SP 3 is that you can rip off the keyboard in a nanosecond and have a "naked" tablet. I laugh when I see people fumble with these ugly aftermarket cases that look obtuse and are awkward.
While true the SP3 is big and heavy as just a tablet. Using it as a tablet, in the way one would use an iPad Air 2, would not be as pleasant.
I ran across this thread and it struck a cord. I like to have at least one Windows laptop in the house and we also have an iPad3. Our Thinkpad t510 is getting a little old so I have been really researching the Surface 3 vs another Thinkpad.
The iPad is really for content consumption. It excels in that arena. The other is security and stability. I don't have to worry about the kids or my wife downloading malware. I can lock it down and restrict user ability to access internet, settings, and otherwise mess things up. There are apps for many of the subscription cable channels so, no one has to go to a website log in and worry about all that to watch content. It's nice as an e-reader with iBooks, Kindle and for PDF's. Again without users having to deal with file structures, naming conventions, and finding content on the internet downloading going to to reader program and so on. Finally, no moving parts to fail.
However, it would be fantastic if there was pressure sensitive stylus for applications which supported it. Also maybe a usb 3.0 or thunderbolt port option.
As far as content creation, it depends on the content you are creating as to the tool required. If I am coding, creating big spreadsheets, writing a book, paper or large presentation I really want a good keyboard and full access to Internet, large hard drive, scanner and having multiple windows open at once. For me the smallest screen I could use would be a MacBook Air 11". But I believe the Surface would work well in laptop mode. I would not feel comfortable using any tablet for those things. For reading or consuming content, my MacBook Air 13" is perfect and I can create content on that as well. So I really do not use an iPad.
From your post, it sounds as if you are using the Surface to consume content in a manner your iPad fulfilled in a tablet format. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think however, it is a negative for the iPad. I would imagine the Surface replaced your old laptop or desktop as well. That doesn't mean your old laptop or desktop was a failure, you simply found a better tool for your needs.
I may purchase a Surface Pro 3, but it will be as a laptop replacement that has tablet features, not as a tablet that has laptop features.
Microsoft has done a great job with Window 8.1 and the Surface.
The iPad is really for content consumption. It excels in that arena. The other is security and stability. I don't have to worry about the kids or my wife downloading malware. I can lock it down and restrict user ability to access internet, settings, and otherwise mess things up. There are apps for many of the subscription cable channels so, no one has to go to a website log in and worry about all that to watch content. It's nice as an e-reader with iBooks, Kindle and for PDF's. Again without users having to deal with file structures, naming conventions, and finding content on the internet downloading going to to reader program and so on. Finally, no moving parts to fail.
However, it would be fantastic if there was pressure sensitive stylus for applications which supported it. Also maybe a usb 3.0 or thunderbolt port option.
As far as content creation, it depends on the content you are creating as to the tool required. If I am coding, creating big spreadsheets, writing a book, paper or large presentation I really want a good keyboard and full access to Internet, large hard drive, scanner and having multiple windows open at once. For me the smallest screen I could use would be a MacBook Air 11". But I believe the Surface would work well in laptop mode. I would not feel comfortable using any tablet for those things. For reading or consuming content, my MacBook Air 13" is perfect and I can create content on that as well. So I really do not use an iPad.
From your post, it sounds as if you are using the Surface to consume content in a manner your iPad fulfilled in a tablet format. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think however, it is a negative for the iPad. I would imagine the Surface replaced your old laptop or desktop as well. That doesn't mean your old laptop or desktop was a failure, you simply found a better tool for your needs.
I may purchase a Surface Pro 3, but it will be as a laptop replacement that has tablet features, not as a tablet that has laptop features.
Microsoft has done a great job with Window 8.1 and the Surface.
Ya, sure. It's screen is significantly bigger than a full-size iPad, it's running i5s and i7s, and it weighs literally the exact same weight as an iPad 1.
If you don't think it will be an issue, go and buy it.
The way I like using tablets, something that size and weight would be fatiguing and a bit annoying.
And I didn't own an iPad one, so the reference has no relevance. My last iPad was a Mini Retina because size and weight with my iPad 4 was fatiguing and a bit annoying at times
Oh I know weight matters in a tablet. I'm just saying... it's the same weight as the iPad 1 with the power of a MacBook Pro. I'll use it as a tablet in bed or laying on a couch or sitting in a chair.
Go buy it already! I've had mine for two weeks now and it's the best decision I've made in a long time.
When I was trying to decide what to buy, I knew the iPad was out because it's too limiting plus I have a 128GB Retina Mini already. I was looking at the Galaxy Note Pro 12" screen and again, it's Android so it's too limiting.
Finally I saw the Surface Pro 3 and knew this was the one I wanted.
If you buy it, get the keyboard. It is well worth the price and the trackpad is nearly perfect. Also, the keyboard is backlit.
You can also return it if you decide it's not for you. I bet that won't happen.
It's nice to be able to listen to a song or video in the background when using other apps without having to worry about the OS stopping it when you open something else.
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I love the sp3 but if you dont plan on using the pen or need a larger screen for reading or presentation--skip it. It not really a mac air replacement--its in its own catagory.
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I find it a better tablet. I like the bigger screen for reading taxtbooks and technical pdfs. The extra weight--it weighs about the same as an ipad 1--is not and issue as i sits in my lap or stands on a table top.
I stopped reading here. Are you serious? I went back to my rMBP iPad Air 2, and what pushed me back was the trackpad. It's simply unusable, for me anyway. That also made the "laptop" experience a lot worse. Had to carry a mouse wherever I go.
It's a nice machine and all, but still far behind a MacBook.
Of course I was serious. It is a nice keyboard and trackpad. Most other users of the SP3 agree.
When I first got mine, I was using a wired mouse but now I prefer the trackpad. How old of a MacBook are you comparing too? Last MacBook was in 2010.
lol you give him a hard time then continue to let us all know how happy you are with your iPad as if you need some sort of justification.
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How would it change your life if they did?? Wouldn't it just be easier not to buy it instead of praying to your God that they don't release one?
Do you understand that other people like different things?
Luck for that person, Apple won't make those changes because they like keeping the iPad crippled so that if you want a real computer, you have to buy something like a Mac Mini or MBP or Air.
Functional for you who clearly only sees value in a device if it fits your existing definition of what a 'computer' should be. For you the Surface might be great. Most people end up finding its too big a compromise for both of the devices it tries to replace. Outside of a narrow niche, it's still a pretty awful tablet. As a laptop replacement, it's ok, but it's still got nothing on a great 13-14" laptop. Hundreds of millions of people have realized however that a device that accompanies a traditional computer, rather than trying to replicate it in a different form factor, can be fantastically useful. It's your kind of viewpoint that nearly saddled us with that steaming pile known as Windows Mobile forever.
That the iPad doesn't include accessories is actually a boon in many ways to users because it allows people to choose for themselves how to outfit it - from simply a Smart Cover for people like me who want it as close to a paper replacement as possible, to full on ruggedized cases for people who are leveraging the wide app ecosystem in all sorts of ways. The limited stand functionality that simple cover provides is more than enough for me. It allows for movie watching and video calling and that's all I need.
For me, putting Windows on a device like the iPad would completely miss the point of the device. I know. I've owned several to make sure.
Because if they change the iPad into something like the Surface it would cease to be an iPad, a device I happen to think is the best general computing device on the market. In my view, it would ruin it.
Let Microsoft poke around in that niche.
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Or that, instead, the iPad as it is is a completely different kind of computing device than a traditional laptop. IMO, that's a good thing.
Note that this has nothing to do with 'crippling' it or whatever the derogatory term of the day is. It's a different type of computer, just as the first PC's were different than the mainframes that preceded them. The fact that they didn't meet some peoples narrow definition of what a computer should be was exactly the point. Fortunately most of the world figured out all the interesting and creative things that could be done with a PC that were not practical with mainframe. The same has held true with tablets since the iPad.
That's opinion. IMO the SP3 is VERY easy to use as a tablet. But then again I work out every once in a while.
Just to add I kind of never understood this argument well. Do some honestly hold their ipad with both arms held out for hours at a time or something? What is it exactly that you guys do that your arms get tired holding an extra .75lbs of weight?
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Yep, this is what apple fans fail (or maybe refuse) to understand. Apples business model is built on their consumers buying a laptop AND a tablet, they would never combine the 2 and put OSx on a tablet.
The ipad is a great consumption device, but pound for pound the SP3 is just as good of a consumption device, but at the same time it has the incredible added value of a full windows system and its ecosystem, digitizer and pen input, the incredible keyboard, larger screen, and the incredibly innovative kickstand. Just my opinion, but seems like the SP3 is money MUCH better spent.
I'm typing this on my new Surface Pro 3 and Type Cover. Have had it a few days and still trying to get used to it.
My reason for buying it was that I wanted to do more work from home or be able to access my work PC when I'm on holiday. It was a toss up between a Macbook Air and the Surface. The Surface is still relatively new and exciting whereas the Air is a bit long in the tooth - although still the best looking laptop you can buy and as everything else in my life has an Apple logo on the back, I thought I should try out a Windows 8 device.
There is one thing the purchase has made me realise - it is far better to have a device that does a few things simply but does them well than to have a computer that tries to do everything but not very well.
First off, good things.
It looks and feels great. The screen looks fantastic and given that it is a decent powered PC it is incredibly thin and light.
The pen is incredibly accurate,feels great and the palm rejection works well too.
The not so good...
The type cover is quite poor. There's plenty of flex and i seem to generate more typos than on a regular keyboard or even the iPad. Touchpad a little erratic.
The pen loop for the type cover is a complete afterthought and will probably fall off within the week.
I hadn't appreciated quite how jarring the Windows 8.1 would be switching from "Desktop" to "Modern UI". In some cases there are duplicate apps installed that cover the same function - two internet explorers. Why not just make one good one that works well with touch and desktop? There's a music app and a videos app but there's also Windows Media Player or you can BUY Windows Media Center separately. It's similar to my frustration with Google having a search app AND Chrome. Microsoft has Mix Radio AND Xbox Music.
Same goes for app icons. Some are flat in the blocky monochrome metro style and others are all XP. Looks dreadful. Do one or the other, have the balls and stick to it.
I'm really keen to see how Win 10 changes things.
I think there's plenty of potential in the surface line and if the hardware is always so well made it could challenge Apple's products but right now it still feels like a beta but that's mostly down to Windows rather than the device hardware.
I know that a lot ofpeoplewouldargue (I'm going to leave that one in to show you how frustrating the space key is) that Windows PCs are better for enterprise and power users etc etc but please, microsoft, hide all the program files and command prompt icons and the like somewhere where peaoplecan't see/touch them unlessneeded. Pretty much everyone uses a computerand most peopleuse (really given up with the correcting now) Windows but MOST PEOPLE DON'T SPEAK DOS. If they just uncluttered all the menus it wouldlook so much better.
I'm going to go and spend the rest of the evening playing with it and hope to come back having changed my opinion completely but given the choice again, I would have gone with a Macbook Air/iPad Air combo.
The iPad may not do much but what it does do, it does very well.
My reason for buying it was that I wanted to do more work from home or be able to access my work PC when I'm on holiday. It was a toss up between a Macbook Air and the Surface. The Surface is still relatively new and exciting whereas the Air is a bit long in the tooth - although still the best looking laptop you can buy and as everything else in my life has an Apple logo on the back, I thought I should try out a Windows 8 device.
There is one thing the purchase has made me realise - it is far better to have a device that does a few things simply but does them well than to have a computer that tries to do everything but not very well.
First off, good things.
It looks and feels great. The screen looks fantastic and given that it is a decent powered PC it is incredibly thin and light.
The pen is incredibly accurate,feels great and the palm rejection works well too.
The not so good...
The type cover is quite poor. There's plenty of flex and i seem to generate more typos than on a regular keyboard or even the iPad. Touchpad a little erratic.
The pen loop for the type cover is a complete afterthought and will probably fall off within the week.
I hadn't appreciated quite how jarring the Windows 8.1 would be switching from "Desktop" to "Modern UI". In some cases there are duplicate apps installed that cover the same function - two internet explorers. Why not just make one good one that works well with touch and desktop? There's a music app and a videos app but there's also Windows Media Player or you can BUY Windows Media Center separately. It's similar to my frustration with Google having a search app AND Chrome. Microsoft has Mix Radio AND Xbox Music.
Same goes for app icons. Some are flat in the blocky monochrome metro style and others are all XP. Looks dreadful. Do one or the other, have the balls and stick to it.
I'm really keen to see how Win 10 changes things.
I think there's plenty of potential in the surface line and if the hardware is always so well made it could challenge Apple's products but right now it still feels like a beta but that's mostly down to Windows rather than the device hardware.
I know that a lot ofpeoplewouldargue (I'm going to leave that one in to show you how frustrating the space key is) that Windows PCs are better for enterprise and power users etc etc but please, microsoft, hide all the program files and command prompt icons and the like somewhere where peaoplecan't see/touch them unlessneeded. Pretty much everyone uses a computerand most peopleuse (really given up with the correcting now) Windows but MOST PEOPLE DON'T SPEAK DOS. If they just uncluttered all the menus it wouldlook so much better.
I'm going to go and spend the rest of the evening playing with it and hope to come back having changed my opinion completely but given the choice again, I would have gone with a Macbook Air/iPad Air combo.
The iPad may not do much but what it does do, it does very well.
This is a pointless discussion.
The iPad isn't even marketed as a laptop replacement device. It's a tablet. The Surface Pro 3 is marketed as a laptop (and tablet).
Even Microsoft's official commercials target the Macbook AIR vs Surface Pro 3.
If you want a fair comparison. Target the Surface (with Windows RT)/Surface 2 vs. iPad.
It's so a joke. Microsoft has just about aborted the Surface 2(RT) version. I don't even think they bothered to release a 2014 edition. The end game for Surface RT is near. I know Nokia (owned by Microsoft now) recently released its own tablet. But Windows 8.1 (tablet edition/RT) cannot compete on same level as iPad.
The Surface Pro 3 is a whole different park. It runs on a real intel core i processor and runs real windows programs. It ain't cheap either. We all know the 64GB version of the Surface pro doesn't have much usable storage space to install more software. You really need at least a 128GB surface pro 3 and that starts at like $999. That's why Microsoft compares Surface Pro 3 vs. Macbook Air.
The iPad comparison isn't valid. iPad is it's own class (true tablets).
I have a 2013 Macbook Air 256GB SSD with 8GB of RAM I purchased for around $1250 (after discounts) MSRP was like $1400. I am perfectly happy with the MBA 2013 model.
But if I didn't own a MBA Air I would seriously consider the surface pro 3. The old saying is it usually takes Microsoft 3 attempts to get something right (those of use old enough know the fiasco Microsoft Outlook 1997 was when it was version 1, Outlook was so bad MSFT gave Outlook 1998 for free). And Outlook 2000 finally solved everything. A 128GB Surface Pro 3 plus a SureType Keyboard will add the cost to around $1100 for the Surface Pro 3, right where MBA usually sell (disregarding discounts)
Anyways the Surface Pro 3 is a very good alternative to the MBA. The iPad shouldn't even be in the equation.
The iPad isn't even marketed as a laptop replacement device. It's a tablet. The Surface Pro 3 is marketed as a laptop (and tablet).
Even Microsoft's official commercials target the Macbook AIR vs Surface Pro 3.
If you want a fair comparison. Target the Surface (with Windows RT)/Surface 2 vs. iPad.
It's so a joke. Microsoft has just about aborted the Surface 2(RT) version. I don't even think they bothered to release a 2014 edition. The end game for Surface RT is near. I know Nokia (owned by Microsoft now) recently released its own tablet. But Windows 8.1 (tablet edition/RT) cannot compete on same level as iPad.
The Surface Pro 3 is a whole different park. It runs on a real intel core i processor and runs real windows programs. It ain't cheap either. We all know the 64GB version of the Surface pro doesn't have much usable storage space to install more software. You really need at least a 128GB surface pro 3 and that starts at like $999. That's why Microsoft compares Surface Pro 3 vs. Macbook Air.
The iPad comparison isn't valid. iPad is it's own class (true tablets).
I have a 2013 Macbook Air 256GB SSD with 8GB of RAM I purchased for around $1250 (after discounts) MSRP was like $1400. I am perfectly happy with the MBA 2013 model.
But if I didn't own a MBA Air I would seriously consider the surface pro 3. The old saying is it usually takes Microsoft 3 attempts to get something right (those of use old enough know the fiasco Microsoft Outlook 1997 was when it was version 1, Outlook was so bad MSFT gave Outlook 1998 for free). And Outlook 2000 finally solved everything. A 128GB Surface Pro 3 plus a SureType Keyboard will add the cost to around $1100 for the Surface Pro 3, right where MBA usually sell (disregarding discounts)
Anyways the Surface Pro 3 is a very good alternative to the MBA. The iPad shouldn't even be in the equation.
I would disagree, non apple fans fail (or maybe refuse) to understand, is that users would rather have options. A all in one phone, tablet, laptop, desktop or otherwise, limits choices. I have a motorcycle and a car. Trying to put them together as a 4 wheeler wouldn't be the best choice.
Its marketed as a laptop replacement, but in real world most keep comparing it to the ipad.
Until Microsoft can understand the concept of keep it simple stupid, the surface will continue to not have mass appeal...IMO. The fact that they keep thinking the tablet is meant to replace something (computer or laptop) when it's supposed to be it's own entity....... is their main downfall.
What they need to do is stop trying to replace the desktop or the laptop. They instead need to build a tablet, that is based on superior touch, innovative software that no one's ever seen before, that appeals to advance users..... but it is as simple as a child to use and a grandmother could enjoy. This is how you get mass appeal for your product. They need to do this better than the iPad does and it will succeed.
You can only please some of the people...............some of the time.
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Nice! Linux on Microsoft hardware. I like it.
What distro are you using? How well does it work with the touch screen and active pen?I do agree, the hardware is lovely.
As a SP3 owner I have all the same choices and then some. I can augment my SP3 with a laptop, a desktop, a phone, etc. Personally I don't see why the tablet should be its own entity, why the heck would I force myself to carry a tablet AND a laptop?
IMO either the ipad came out at a time when it was impossible to put desktop spec components into something that thin with long battery life or Apple truly banked on consumers purchasing both a laptop and a tablet. I think it is probably a combination of both those things. Technology however. Has caught up and you can have desktop components in something thinner with better battery life than the first ipad, and pretty close to the latest ipad air. Why Apple wouldn't give consumers the "choice" to have OSx on their tablet is beyond me, other than the dual device business strategy, seems like less choice to me. Certainly it isn't more choice than the windows ecosystem.
Another factor is Apple was first to market, their hardware is impeccable, and Microsoft MAJORLY fubared the surface with Windows 8, incredibly poor marketing, releasing the atrocity that is RT, and just terrible marketing.
It all boils down to user preference though, and we can bandy around opinions all day long.