My iPad is Collecting Dust, Thinking Surface Pro 3

[spinedoc77]

For me, if I'm going to be using a device as a laptop, I want a solid keyboard. When we tried the SP3, I found that carrying it felt like carrying a laptop rather than a tablet. The iPad fits in my sling bag and other lighter bags I have. For the SP3, I had to get out my laptop bag. So the Surface gives me a compromised keyboard, without giving me increased portability. So unless the SP4 gets significantly lighter, I'll be sticking with the MBA.

Personally I don't find the MBA keyboard much better than the SP3 keyboard, I'd say it's marginally better. I do agree that carrying it is quite similar to carrying the MBA, although you could carry the SP3 around without the keyboard making it significantly lighter, not much heavier than the ipad air for example, and way lighter than the MBA.

I'm not disparaging your choice though, sounds like a MBA works better for you.

 

[booksbooks]

You mean the thing that gizmodo wrote this about on Monday:





http://gizmodo.com/lenovo-yoga-3-pro-review-a-futuristic-laptop-that-lags-1668217125

Overall, I think the SP3 remains the least bad compromise in this market area.

B

You can't take one review and generalize. There are mixed reviews of the device. However, I don't really care too much for the device: I would get a SP3, not a Yoga Pro 3. I brought it up because of the chip it uses and related that discussion to what MS may do with the SP4. The M chip is purposed for thin, light devices.

On benchmarks, the M chip does fairly well. While the MacBook Air got a higher Geekbench score (5300 vs. 4500), some benchmark tests the Yoga Pro 3 did better. In some tests it spanked the MacBook Air 13". Like the 3DMark test: killed the Air. The Air did better on FPS for gaming at NATIVE RESOLUTION, but of course this isn't fair as the Yoga Pro 3 is pushing way more pixels (3200x1800 vs 1440 by 900).

Frankly, it's impressive that the M chip is able to offer enough performance that it can push so many pixels, be enclosed in such a thin, light body, have battery life on par with a MacBook Pro Retina, and run full desktop.

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/lenovo-yoga-3-pro-hybrid

Anyway, I agree with others that the lightness and detachable keyboard are key with the SP3. Nobody's been able to do this like MS. They have the best thing going. I think now that they did $1 billion in revenue on Surface last quarter, pretty much the best ever quarter for Surface, we should see more of Surface. I'm going to pick up the SP3. When the 4 comes out, I'll just sell it and get that one. Right now, the Surface Pro 3 is fairly refined.

 

[zhenya]

Can anyone speak to the state of the current browser and email clients on the Surface Pro/Windows? One of the biggest challenges I had when I last used my SP 1 regularly was that it wasn't just the App Store that was lacking, the touch based Internet Explorer and Mail clients were just laughably bad. Don't tell me you don't need apps when you have a browser if the browser is as bad as that version of IE was, sandboxed and completely isolated not just from the desktop version, but from every other browser you might use.

So, is there a browser for the touch side of Windows that syncs with my other browsers painlessly, and is fully modern with things like extensions and customizable gestures for navigation?

Is there a real Gmail app yet? Has the mail app been updated and made a decent Outlook replacement?

I can wait and pull my SP1 out of my desk at work tomorrow, but it'd have to be updated and I'd prefer to hear from people using these daily.

 

[spinedoc77]

Can anyone speak to the state of the current browser and email clients on the Surface Pro/Windows? One of the biggest challenges I had when I last used my SP 1 regularly was that it wasn't just the App Store that was lacking, the touch based Internet Explorer and Mail clients were just laughably bad. Don't tell me you don't need apps when you have a browser if the browser is as bad as that version of IE was, sandboxed and completely isolated not just from the desktop version, but from every other browser you might use.

So, is there a browser for the touch side of Windows that syncs with my other browsers painlessly, and is fully modern with things like extensions and customizable gestures for navigation?

Is there a real Gmail app yet? Has the mail app been updated and made a decent Outlook replacement?

I can wait and pull my SP1 out of my desk at work tomorrow, but it'd have to be updated and I'd prefer to hear from people using these daily.

Touch internet explorer is phenomenal IMO, it blows away any other tablet browser. Fast, smooth, nice features, etc. Cool thing is that you can always opt to use the desktop version, but I personally love the modern version. Email is very nice, but I use an outlook email address so maybe that's why. Gmail you can just use the desktop app, or you can just put a gmail account into the outlook modern app, but I think Google totally hates MS as there aren't any google windows apps.

 

[JackieInCo]

Touch internet explorer is phenomenal IMO, it blows away any other tablet browser. Fast, smooth, nice features, etc. Cool thing is that you can always opt to use the desktop version, but I personally love the modern version. Email is very nice, but I use an outlook email address so maybe that's why. Gmail you can just use the desktop app, or you can just put a gmail account into the outlook modern app, but I think Google totally hates MS as there aren't any google windows apps.

I don't like the modern IE because I can't figure out how to install an adblocker on it like I have installed in trhe desktop version. Adblock plus wants to install it on the desktop version which it's already installed even though I am visiting the adblock site with the metro version.

 

[Truefan31]

I think the sp3 is a pretty cool concept. I'm lookin forward to a supposed iPad pro. Honestly if be happy with a retina mba.

 

[zhenya]

Touch internet explorer is phenomenal IMO, it blows away any other tablet browser. Fast, smooth, nice features, etc. Cool thing is that you can always opt to use the desktop version, but I personally love the modern version. Email is very nice, but I use an outlook email address so maybe that's why. Gmail you can just use the desktop app, or you can just put a gmail account into the outlook modern app, but I think Google totally hates MS as there aren't any google windows apps.

It may be a great browser, but users should have a choice. Even on the iPad I have a large number of browser choices, many of them very good - supporting extensions - including as above, adblockers, customizeable gestures, sync with all of my other browsers, etc.

As far as I can see, touch IE does none of this, existing in a vacuum unless you go all in with Microsoft for everything across all of your devices. Using the desktop browsers are a poor substitute for touch.

 

[spinedoc77]

I don't like the modern IE because I can't figure out how to install an adblocker on it like I have installed in trhe desktop version. Adblock plus wants to install it on the desktop version which it's already installed even though I am visiting the adblock site with the metro version.

When you install it on the desktop version it's also installed on the modern version.

----------

It may be a great browser, but users should have a choice. Even on the iPad I have a large number of browser choices, many of them very good - supporting extensions - including as above, adblockers, customizeable gestures, sync with all of my other browsers, etc.

As far as I can see, touch IE does none of this, existing in a vacuum unless you go all in with Microsoft for everything across all of your devices. Using the desktop browsers are a poor substitute for touch.

You can add a lot to the desktop version and they translate to the modern app. As for browser choices, yeah I hear ya, but you should complain to the browser companies. Chrome for modern windows is pitiful, and Mozilla stopped working on their modern version of Firefox, which was beyond pitiful anyhow. Like I said, I love modern IE, but that's just my personal opinion and I can understand how the lack of choice sucks for you.

 

[JackieInCo]

When you install it on the desktop version it's also installed on the modern version.

----------

No. I did some searching and found that Microsoft has built the Modern IE so that it can not run with any add ons.

In my searching, I found the way to get around ads on Modern IE is to edit the hosts file with the list found on the website that I found. Was very easy to do and I now get no ads.

http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-7/windows-7-hosts-file/

 

[spinedoc77]

No. I did some searching and found that Microsoft has built the Modern IE so that it can not run with any add ons.

In my searching, I found the way to get around ads on Modern IE is to edit the hosts file with the list found on the website that I found. Was very easy to do and I now get no ads.

http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-7/windows-7-hosts-file/

All my ads are blocked in Modern IE. Can't remember the last time I saw one.

This is the one I use: http://simple-adblock.com/downloadpage/

You can also do tracking protection lists which blocks most ads as well. I believe Easylist tracking protection has most of the same sites as Adblock Plus does. Here is a good article on adblocking in modern IE: http://www.windowscentral.com/here-how-block-ads-ie-11-windows-81

 

[zhenya]

All my ads are blocked in Modern IE. Can't remember the last time I saw one.

This is the one I use: http://simple-adblock.com/downloadpage/

You can also do tracking protection lists which blocks most ads as well. I believe Easylist tracking protection has most of the same sites as Adblock Plus does. Here is a good article on adblocking in modern IE: http://www.windowscentral.com/here-how-block-ads-ie-11-windows-81

I installed the adblocker extension but it honestly didn't seem to do much. When I added the tracking protection list, that seemed to block most ads for me.

 

[JackieInCo]

I installed the adblocker extension but it honestly didn't seem to do much. When I added the tracking protection list, that seemed to block most ads for me.

Editing the hosts file seems to be blocking ads in apps as well.

 

[zhenya]

Editing the hosts file seems to be blocking ads in apps as well.

I presume that method requires manual updating? using one of the centrally maintained lists is automatic.

 

[JackieInCo]

I presume that method requires manual updating? using one of the centrally maintained lists is automatic.

I still have adblock plus installed on IE and Firefox So I should be good there. I just wanted to block ads in Modern IE because when an app goes split screen, most of the time, the content that opens up on the right pane is opened in modern IE and the ads were killing that.

 

[zhenya]

You can add a lot to the desktop version and they translate to the modern app. As for browser choices, yeah I hear ya, but you should complain to the browser companies. Chrome for modern windows is pitiful, and Mozilla stopped working on their modern version of Firefox, which was beyond pitiful anyhow. Like I said, I love modern IE, but that's just my personal opinion and I can understand how the lack of choice sucks for you.

Thinking about this a bit more, and I have to say that in some respects, I disagree. Yes, Google could wholly on their own decide to make a better Chrome browser for Windows, however, that is not the strategy that they are pursuing (only Microsoft themselves have just recently decided to pursue all platforms nearly equally). What Microsoft needs to do, and I've been saying this since the release of Windows 8 and the very first Surface Pro, is to take their App store seriously themselves. They need to light a fire under developers using any means they can to fully build out their store so that it is not hovering in limbo the way it has been for years now. That will have a snowballing effect, where if the app store is growing, and developers see it as a serious platform, they will decide that they can't afford to ignore it. This is exactly what happened on iOS and why every major company has serious apps in that store. Microsoft is doing a lot of great stuff right now. The next step is to take their own app store seriously.

 

[diamond.g]

No. I did some searching and found that Microsoft has built the Modern IE so that it can not run with any add ons.

In my searching, I found the way to get around ads on Modern IE is to edit the hosts file with the list found on the website that I found. Was very easy to do and I now get no ads.

http://helpdeskgeek.com/windows-7/windows-7-hosts-file/

Which is why in Win10 Modern IE is going away (well hidden).

 

[CEmajr]

I get that the OP is comparing the Surface Pro and the iPad but from what I see of the pricing of the SP3 it looks like one could just buy a Macbook Air at such steep prices. Making the whole tablet vs. tablet thing a moot point. If I'm paying $1000 then I might as well get the full laptop anyway rather than the hybrid that's decent at both but a master at neither.

On another note has anyone tried the Yoga 3 10" tablet? I played around one at BestBuy and for the price it seems like it would be good if it can offer a full OS experience. It just seemed to stutter somewhat and kind of laggy so it made me hesitant to try it out.

 

[zhenya]

I get that the OP is comparing the Surface Pro and the iPad but from what I see of the pricing of the SP3 it looks like one could just buy a Macbook Air at such steep prices. Making the whole tablet vs. tablet thing a moot point. If I'm paying $1000 then I might as well get the full laptop anyway rather than the hybrid that's decent at both but a master at neither.

On another note has anyone tried the Yoga 3 10" tablet? I played around one at BestBuy and for the price it seems like it would be good if it can offer a full OS experience. It just seemed to stutter somewhat and kind of laggy so it made me hesitant to try it out.

The point of the Surface Pro is that it is supposed to replace not just your laptop, but also your tablet, so while the price is high compared to a basic iPad, it is cheap compared to an iPad plus a Macbook which is what many people use.

 

[JackieInCo]

I get that the OP is comparing the Surface Pro and the iPad but from what I see of the pricing of the SP3 it looks like one could just buy a Macbook Air at such steep prices. Making the whole tablet vs. tablet thing a moot point. If I'm paying $1000 then I might as well get the full laptop anyway rather than the hybrid that's decent at both but a master at neither.

On another note has anyone tried the Yoga 3 10" tablet? I played around one at BestBuy and for the price it seems like it would be good if it can offer a full OS experience. It just seemed to stutter somewhat and kind of laggy so it made me hesitant to try it out.

And that is why I bought the SP3. I played with the Yoga a bit and just wasn't impressed. I thought the hinge was pretty ugly and liked the fact the SP3 can be used without a keyboard and has a full OS.

 

[Night Spring]

The point of the Surface Pro is that it is supposed to replace not just your laptop, but also your tablet, so while the price is high compared to a basic iPad, it is cheap compared to an iPad plus a Macbook which is what many people use.

While I agree that is the theory, in practice, I find the SP3 to be too heavy to really replace a tablet. Of course, if someone uses their tablet, mostly at home, they might find the SP3 to be a decent tablet, but for me, a big aspect of having a tablet is to have a decent sized computing device with me while on the go. The SP3 is so hefty I feel reluctant to pull it out while on a bus or subway, whereas the iPad is light and easy to snap out of my bag, and shove it back in when I get off.

 

[zhenya]

While I agree that is the theory, in practice, I find the SP3 to be too heavy to really replace a tablet. Of course, if someone uses their tablet, mostly at home, they might find the SP3 to be a decent tablet, but for me, a big aspect of having a tablet is to have a decent sized computing device with me while on the go. The SP3 is so hefty I feel reluctant to pull it out while on a bus or subway, whereas the iPad is light and easy to snap out of my bag, and shove it back in when I get off.

Oh, I agree completely. I think the SP3 is an engineering marvel, but it's still far too big to take the place of my iPad, let alone an iPad mini for portable use. I was just pointing out where the value proposition in the SP3 comes from.

It's this realization that certainly led Microsoft to start marketing it against the Macbook Air as opposed to the iPad.

 

[CEmajr]

The point of the Surface Pro is that it is supposed to replace not just your laptop, but also your tablet, so while the price is high compared to a basic iPad, it is cheap compared to an iPad plus a Macbook which is what many people use.

Yeah it just seems too large and impractical to replace a much lighter and more portable tablet like the iPad. That's probably why Microsoft is having a hard time selling these. It's priced like a Macbook Air but isn't as good a computer and is priced higher than the iPad, but is too heavy to be a real alternative. It seems they're stuck in a hard place right now. The Macbook Air 11 is already extremely light but is a full computer and similar in price. Were it in the $500-750 range, I think it would be far more valuable.

It's a good concept though and it might become lighter and more practical in the future I believe.

 

[JackieInCo]

Yeah it just seems too large and impractical to replace a much lighter and more portable tablet like the iPad. That's probably why Microsoft is having a hard time selling these. It's priced like a Macbook Air but isn't as good a computer and is priced higher than the iPad, but is too heavy to be a real alternative. It seems they're stuck in a hard place right now. The Macbook Air 11 is already extremely light but is a full computer and similar in price. Were it in the $500-750 range, I think it would be far more valuable.

It's a good concept though and it might become lighter and more practical in the future I believe.

The fact is, is that they are selling very well and most people who own one would disagree with you. i think it is much better than any MacBook due to the fact that i can use it without a attached keyboard and it is easy to carry around.

 

[booksbooks]

I get that the OP is comparing the Surface Pro and the iPad but from what I see of the pricing of the SP3 it looks like one could just buy a Macbook Air at such steep prices. Making the whole tablet vs. tablet thing a moot point. If I'm paying $1000 then I might as well get the full laptop anyway rather than the hybrid that's decent at both but a master at neither.

On another note has anyone tried the Yoga 3 10" tablet? I played around one at BestBuy and for the price it seems like it would be good if it can offer a full OS experience. It just seemed to stutter somewhat and kind of laggy so it made me hesitant to try it out.

Enough with the price already. I paid $1000 for my iPhone 6 Plus. It looks like one could just buy a full laptop for that at such steep prices why buy it then? Because of a need. However, the iPhone, in my view, is way too expensive.

The SP3 is one hell of a computer for $1000. i5, 128 GB storage, 4 GB RAM... To get the 128 GB storage model of an iPad it's $770. Not that far off $1000 is it? And it's a dinky processor in a device that's quite limited.

No, the SP3 is not too expensive at all. So let's get past this.

 

[JackieInCo]

Enough with the price already. I paid $1000 for my iPhone 6 Plus. It looks like one could just buy a full laptop for that at such steep prices why buy it then? Because of a need. However, the iPhone, in my view, is way too expensive.

The SP3 is one hell of a computer for $1000. i5, 128 GB storage, 4 GB RAM... To get the 128 GB storage model of an iPad it's $770. Not that far off $1000 is it? And it's a dinky processor in a device that's quite limited.

No, the SP3 is not too expensive at all. So let's get past this.

Exactly!

A year ago this month, I bought my 128GB Retina Mini and after taxes, I paid $900 for it. My SP3 was $899 at BestBuy. Had the SP3 been available last year, I very well may have bought it instead because I think it is a much better device. The ipad as you have said and any Android device as well, are too limited in functions and apps.