My one issue with Ipad,well Apple in general.

[DaveGee]

I hope you are kidding with this ipad would be &1,200 nonsense.

Say what you want but the US is not (and hasn't been) and 'industrial based' society for a VERY long time. For better or worse we've made the transition from industrial/manufacturing based economy to a services based economy.

Is this some how saying that NO manufacturing takes place in the US... No, of course not thats silly. Under certain circumstances manufacturing in the US still makes sense but it is far from the norm. Some very expensive 'boutique electronics' ARE built in the US because even if the manufacturing cost is 2x what they would be abroad their products sell with such insane markups that it doesn't really matter and the ability to directly oversee the production process (locally) is worth more to them.

But the fact is even those who were known as 'U.S. Based Manufacturers' are outsourcing much of the device production to China and simply performing the final assembly here in the US.

I'm about a 'Pro-US' as one can get but even I understand the way the world works and manufacturing in the US is dead and it's been dead for a very long time.

 

[tkettle]

I hope you are kidding with this ipad would be &1,200 nonsense. more people would have jobs, and more people would have higher wages. A much more fluid economy. Apple is making HUGE mark ups on their products now, they cold afford to take A $150 hit per machine, and still be making billions. I guess our tight regulations to protect the environment are just stupid! Silly lawmakers trying to save our planet, and reverse the horrors we have done to it. Who elected them!?!?! But i guess your right, manufacturing here would be very difficult and very expensive. Thats why dell prices are so much higher than apples. Oh wait... they come in cheaper. Welp, there goes that argument. If apple cares about the environment and working conditions like they claim, they would be here. But they are playing everyone on it, and i dont see how people see past it. Its pretty ridiculous nobody is willing to stand up for any human rights anymore, just because you dont see it happen doesnt mean they arent fellow HUMANS being exploited at sickening rates. Wake up, people.

The reason you are paying a higher price with Apple is for the Software not the Hardware. Dell doesn't make their own software, so they don't have the costs that are associated with developing and updating software.

Apple is also considered a luxury computer, they have an image to keep, if they were to lower their prices then no one would look that them the same. They would just view them as a cheap manufacture and ultimately bring down Apple's brand image and then their sales.

Also many people buy an Apple computer to standout; if everyone had them, then their current image would be gone.

 

[wharzhee]

im not sure about how accurate the sources are, but i read somewhere that china holds a huge percentage of the precious metal required to manufacture all electronic devices.and there is a limited quantity of these precious metals.(i wonder how long it can last).. thus they have a huge bargaining power. and one of their requirement is that these company who wants a share of these precious metals must have a foot hold in china. thats why many of these companies are relocated there.

 

[nj-mac-user]

Sucks, but that's life. Don't like it? Complain to congress to reduce business taxes and quit trying to suck cash from companies (which just ends up getting passed along in higher priced goods to the consumer) and instead start learning to live within the budget and stop wasting public money on porkbarrel projects!

Reduce business taxes? So the rich executives can just get even higher bonuses? How about imposing a tax on outsourcing.

In the end, they can't simply just pass everything along to consumers and expect to sell their product at ridiculously high prices because consumers won't pay if they believe it's overpriced. Look at the PS3 for instance. $600 = Nobody can "afford"... $300 = Everyone is buying one, but Sony eating costs (but making $ from software/accessories). Point is, business taxes are not the problem.

 

[Crackbone]

im not sure about how accurate the sources are, but i read somewhere that china holds a huge percentage of the precious metal required to manufacture all electronic devices.and there is a limited quantity of these precious metals.(i wonder how long it can last).. thus they have a huge bargaining power. and one of their requirement is that these company who wants a share of these precious metals must have a foot hold in china. thats why many of these companies are relocated there.

You've sort of got it right.

China currently mines roughly 95-96% of all rare earth metals that are used in batteries, capacitors, superconductors and alike.

The reason for this is, not that China has access to these materials exclusively, but that they really don't have any mining regulations like we do here in the west. We have access, but won't mine due to environmental concerns and restrictions, etc.

 

[2002cbr600f4i]

Reduce business taxes? So the rich executives can just get even higher bonuses? How about imposing a tax on outsourcing.

In the end, they can't simply just pass everything along to consumers and expect to sell their product at ridiculously high prices because consumers won't pay if they believe it's overpriced. Look at the PS3 for instance. $600 = Nobody can "afford"... $300 = Everyone is buying one, but Sony eating costs (but making $ from software/accessories). Point is, business taxes are not the problem.

You're confusing CORPORATE taxes with INCOME taxes on the execs.

Look at the current situation - GE just did their corporate tax returns (all 2000+ of them) to various governments around the world. You know what they paid to the US Federal Gov? $0. Yes. $0. Between moving or claiming profits through non-US entities and losses in the US market, they have ZERO tax liability in the USA.

While that might be the case, the Execs made their income here in the USA and have to pay personal income taxes on that.

The fact is that corporations, even when they DO get stuck with a tax burden typically just pass those increased costs along to the consumers in the form of higher prices.

And then let's look at all the municipalities that offer corporations huge tax benefits (no taxes for 10 years) etc, in order to lure those corporations to putting plants or facilities in their towns... Why? Because they know that they'll recoup the money lost to the corporate taxes through individual income taxes for those employed by the company there, and through increase sales taxes when those people have money to go out and spend in the town.

And the PS3 (or any console for that matter) is a HORRIBLE example. Sony/MS/Nintendo sell the console at a loss (less than the cost of components + R&D) in order to get the installed base of machines high, and then they make it back up in the sale of accessories (all those memory cards add up!) and game licenses. The more machines there are out there, the bigger the potential market for any game, the more sony can charge for the license to sell to their console.

Again, go read fairtax.org

 

[2002cbr600f4i]

You've sort of got it right.

China currently mines roughly 95-96% of all rare earth metals that are used in batteries, capacitors, superconductors and alike.

The reason for this is, not that China has access to these materials exclusively, but that they really don't have any mining regulations like we do here in the west. We have access, but won't mine due to environmental concerns and restrictions, etc.

Correct... China has a huge supply and is willing to mine them. We actually have a huge amount of them here in the USA as well, but the costs to mine them due to the environmental restrictions is currently cost prohibitive. If China shuts off access, then the price of those materials on the open market will shoot up and then you might start seeing US mining operations start to extract them here. But until that happens, we won't touch it.

Just like why we don't drill all the available oil in the USA - its cheaper to buy it elsewhere than to drill here.

 

[chriszzz]

First off let me clarify I am an Apple supporter,owning the majority of Apple technologies(Ipad 3G on order as well).

My issue is why Apple chooses to manufacture in China? Apple could manufacture in the U.S., still be profitable and provide thousands of jobs that are much needed in this country.

I feel Apples image is tarnished by a business model that takes such welcome technologies that are developed here and chooses to manufacture China.

I want Apple to continue to grow and be the industry leader they are, I just wish they would consider moving their manufacturing to the U.S., and give something back to the economy that has been so supportive of them.

How about you quit your job and make iPads for 25 cents a day, then they'll bring manufacturing to the US.

 

[wharzhee]

interesting. now that i did not know.. (abt the exclusivity)

 

[nj-mac-user]

You're confusing CORPORATE taxes with INCOME taxes on the execs.

Look at the current situation - GE just did their corporate tax returns (all 2000+ of them) to various governments around the world. You know what they paid to the US Federal Gov? $0. Yes. $0. Between moving or claiming profits through non-US entities and losses in the US market, they have ZERO tax liability in the USA.

While that might be the case, the Execs made their income here in the USA and have to pay personal income taxes on that.

The fact is that corporations, even when they DO get stuck with a tax burden typically just pass those increased costs along to the consumers in the form of higher prices.

And then let's look at all the municipalities that offer corporations huge tax benefits (no taxes for 10 years) etc, in order to lure those corporations to putting plants or facilities in their towns... Why? Because they know that they'll recoup the money lost to the corporate taxes through individual income taxes for those employed by the company there, and through increase sales taxes when those people have money to go out and spend in the town.

And the PS3 (or any console for that matter) is a HORRIBLE example. Sony/MS/Nintendo sell the console at a loss (less than the cost of components + R&D) in order to get the installed base of machines high, and then they make it back up in the sale of accessories (all those memory cards add up!) and game licenses. The more machines there are out there, the bigger the potential market for any game, the more sony can charge for the license to sell to their console.

Again, go read fairtax.org

What I meant by that was who's to say that with reduced business taxes that the extra money the company saves simply won't go to execs themselves? Believe me I'm not against you in that we are overtaxed whether business or not in a nation as a whole I believe we certainly are.

The PS3 example was just an example that consumers won't pay a premium if the product's price is too high (regardless of whether the company makes or loses money from it).

 

[emaja]

The PS3 example was just an example that consumers won't pay a premium if the product's price is too high (regardless of whether the company makes or loses money from it).

That's a good example of a company setting the price higher than what the market is willing to pay for. Apple does a much better job of getting that balance right. Not perfect, but better.

 

[TurdFerguson]

China doesn't seem to care about their environment

It's everyone's environment.

 

[IntelliUser]

...and leave all those poor kids without a job?! How are they gonna get the rice for their family?!

 

[mcdj]

Americans are too obsessed with lunch breaks to be an efficient producer of electronics on a large scale.

I would finish this post, but it's time for my lunch break.

 

[Lotus Esprit V8]

You just said the words economic freedom and china in the same sentence. hahaha. Its cheaper there do to oppression, and your precious apple is all kinds of for it. How about accepting these taxes that pay for your roads, new libraries, parks, soon healthcare, law enforcement, the list just goes on and on. Thats how america is, and if companies dont like it and are outsourcing their labor, they should not get the same tax cuts other companies get.

The businesses in China are not burdened with the amount of regulations and taxes that their US counterparts are.

They had to amend the constitution to allow the first income taxes in 1913, why? Because the founding fathers didn't want an income tax and it was unconstitutional. Even then the majority of people didn't pay it up until WWII and then it was supposed to be temporary which it wasn't.

The US is heading towards socialism. The government is almost twice the size that it was 10 years ago, why?

The government has to shrink and stop spending us into oblivion as there is a major currency crisis lurking on the horizon.

China in the current decade is doing what America did in the 50's - Save and Produce, that is why they are successful and will be the economic super power of the world within the next 5 years.

I, however, am not ready to start a movement replacing our democracy for communism just to save a couple of bucks on our technology production.

What we have now is leading there. Social Democracy and Communism end in the same place, the only difference is with social democracy the people are convinced over time and agree to it and with Communism it is done by force.

What do you call it when the government ignores contract law and says it is for the good of the country like they did with the secured credit holders in the Chrysler Bankruptcy?

They have already shreded the constition and November is the only chance for us to try to change things. I advise you to click on the link in my signature and listen.

You guys are just too far out of touch to explain this too. And dell doesn't do all manufacturing in the US, but its by far a bulk of it. I like to know alot about a company before i buy from them, and right now i have no apple products because i can agree with their corporate philosophy. They sent a quality testing crew to the china factory before it was exposed and said everything was fine. They are a horrible company, and try to act like they are all kinds of responsible.

Actually Dell assembles everything here but the components are all bought from other companies and mostly made in China as well.

 

[ZombiePete]

I'm not paying $1,200 for an iPad just so a U.S. worker can make it.

And that is why they don't manufacture in the U.S.

QFT

You can thank greedy and corrupt unions (that have their place, don't get me wrong) for ruining manufacturing in the US.

 

[hamlinspahn]

You Might Want to Read the Constitution

They had to amend the constitution to allow the first income taxes in 1913, why? Because the founding fathers didn't want an income tax and it was unconstitutional. Even then the majority of people didn't pay it up until WWII and then it was supposed to be temporary which it wasn't.

Taxation by the Federal Government was and always has been part of the original constitution, The amendment was for clarification.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

But hey lack of knowledge of the constitution is common and quoting it is common however seldom accurate.

 

[patp]

The OP has no idea of business and payroll, taxes, workmans comp etc. It is not easy to run any business in the USA.

 

[/dev/toaster]

You do realize that most of your electronics are made in China, right ? Cheap labor is not going to change that, sorry.

Regarding American cars. I hate to say it, but they are totally trash. The last 3 cars I bought were American and they all fell apart within 2 years. Then, I bought a Honda. The damn thing is a tank, you can't kill em.

Side note, I don't own a car anymore since I moved to a city ... thank god, I hate dealing with cars. If for some strange reason I needed to buy another one, it sure as hell wouldn't be an American.

 

[BeachChair]

Aside from the obvious neglection to mention that Apple would become completely uncompetetive and thus wouldn't have the money to develop stuff like iPad.
Aside from that, why shouldn't chinese people have these jobs, don't they deserve to have food on their table and a good life as much as americans?

Instead of thinking up ways to butcher Apple, be happy that an american hardware maker is doing well and consider the billions of dollars Apple revenue is putting into the american economy via salaries to engineers and income taxes.

 

[ukyo229]

The majority of the components are manufactured by Taiwanese (chinese) Korean and Japanese companies. You want the parts to be flown over to the US, so it can just be assembled? A factory built just to do that, and raising overheads that inflate the product cost?

 

[*LTD*]

First off let me clarify I am an Apple supporter,owning the majority of Apple technologies(Ipad 3G on order as well).

My issue is why Apple chooses to manufacture in China? Apple could manufacture in the U.S., still be profitable

That last point is a bit sticky.

Talk to the unions.

 

[Lotus Esprit V8]

Taxation by the Federal Government was and always has been part of the original constitution, The amendment was for clarification.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress

But hey lack of knowledge of the constitution is common and quoting it is common however seldom accurate.

I believe that the income tax distorts "Uniformity"

The purpose of taxing was only to faciliate the administration of the Federal Government.

The consitution granted the Federal Government the powers to defend the country and regulate interstate commerce.

Everything else was to be left up to the states. Have you ever read the Federalist papers?

The founding fathers did not want centralized government planning. They knew that if the constitution gave the federal government too much power that they states would never ratify it

The constitution does not need to be clarified. In its begining it was a very simple straight forward document. Over the years the government has perverted and distorted it.

If the colonists could have seen into the future and known what the country is like today they would have never revolted.

Up unitll roughly ten years ago British Hong Kong did not have any personal income tax. We would have been better off staying a British Colony.

The current US economic polocies are going to destroy the purchasing power of the US dollar.

 

[hamlinspahn]

Whatever

The purpose of taxing was only to faciliate the administration of the Federal Government.

The consitution granted the Federal Government the powers to defend the country and regulate interstate commerce.

Among other things

Everything else was to be left up to the states. Have you ever read the Federalist papers?

Wasn't talking about states rights at any level so stay on point. And yes I have read the Federalist Papers

The founding fathers did not want centralized government planning. They knew that if the constitution gave the federal government too much power that they states never ratify it

Opinion but I do generally agree on this point.

The constitution does not need to be clarified. In its begining it was a very simple straight forward document. Over the years the government has perverted and distorted it.

Opinion again and since there is a process to clarify the constitution included in the constitution it appears the founders felt it would need to be changed or clarified from time to time.

If the colonists could have seen into the future and known what the country is like today they would have never revolted.

Again opinion since you can't ask them how they would feel. But I do agree with your opinion.

Up unitll roughly ten years ago British Hong Kong did not have any personal income tax. We would have been better off staying a British Colony.

Interesting point but has nothing to do with taxation in the US

The current US economic polocies are going to destroy the purchasing power of the US dollar.

I agree and on this one there is more than opinion to back it up.

Now my statement was about taxation powers not state v fed rights, and the constitution allows federal taxation. The amendment referenced was an amendment to clarify. And to the perfection of the Constitution I agree it doesn't need to be amended, but it has and it did provide a process to do so and with that it is apparent that the founding fathers realized that it over time would need to be changed, if not they would not have included a process to do so.

I also think we agree on about 90% on this issue.

 

[Lotus Esprit V8]

Now my statement was about taxation powers not state v fed rights, and the constitution allows federal taxation. The amendment referenced was an amendment to clarify. And to the perfection of the Constitution I agree it doesn't need to be amended, but it has and it did provide a process to do so and with that it is apparent that the founding fathers realized that it over time would need to be changed, if not they would not have included a process to do so.

I also think we agree on about 90% on this issue.

I was refering to the income Tax being unconstitutional specifically.