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I currently use a 5K iMac with an external camera mounted on it. Mac webcams are garbage. All of them.



But the M1 still beats practically every Intel chip on performance, even with Intel apps running on Rosetta 2. This gap is only going to get wider. Hope you enjoy fan noise!



I will be extremely surprised if Intel support survives beyond macOS 13.
What year is your 5k iMac? The webcam on my 2020 works great.

The M1 does not beat the 10 core i9 in my iMac on multicore workloads. Yes there can be fan noise under load but my iMac is quieter than my Synology NAS and much quieter than my old 15" MBP.

You should prepare to be extremely surprised about MacOS Support. When Mac OS 14 launches, there will still be Intel Macs with active Apple Care. Hardware support for Macs typically lasts 7 years and OS upgrades even longer. My 2009 iMac had High Sierra installed.
 
What year is your 5k iMac? The webcam on my 2020 works great.

It’s a 2017, looks like yours is significantly better:


I didn’t know that, glad to see Apple doing something. (I assumed since the M1 Macs use the same ****** hardware that they simply weren’t interested in cameras on Macs.)


The M1 does not beat the 10 core i9 in my iMac on multicore workloads. Yes there can be fan noise under load but my iMac is quieter than my Synology NAS and much quieter than my old 15" MBP.

A lot of asterisks on that statement, and I’m guessing they’ll all have aged badly by the end of the year.

You should prepare to be extremely surprised about MacOS Support. When Mac OS 14 launches, there will still be Intel Macs with active Apple Care. Hardware support for Macs typically lasts 7 years and OS upgrades even longer. My 2009 iMac had High Sierra installed.
The Power Mac G5 Quad started shipping in November 2005. The last version of macOS it could run shipped in October 2007, less than two years later.

In more recent years, the iPhone 5C shipped in September 2013. The last version of iOS to support it was released in September 2016, just three years later.

These both had notoriously short periods of support due to platform shifts. The Mac is currently in a platform shift.

I‘ll set an alert to meet back here in three years.
 
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It’s a 2017, looks like yours is significantly better:


I didn’t know that, glad to see Apple doing something. (I assumed since the M1 Macs use the same ****** hardware that they simply weren’t interested in cameras on Macs.)
I went from a 2014 iMac to a 2020 iMac and the webcam has improved from garbage "potato cam" to acceptable. Likewise the mics and speakers.
Not good enough webcam and mics for professional videos (such as good quality youtube videos), but perfectly fine for online meetings.
One negative is that one has zero control on the webcam settings. It is 100% automatic, with no options.
 
One negative is that one has zero control on the webcam settings. It is 100% automatic, with no options.
Yeah, I suspect I wouldn’t be happy with it either, even if it would work in more situations than the 2017 does.

I bought a Logitech 920C, which had received decent reviews. It was surprisingly bad (although still much better than the iMac) so now I am using my Canon 5D instead. It is bulky and not very practical, but the results are so much better.

it shouldn’t be this hard. Just put the damn iPhone camera in the iMac!
 
A lot of the issues with Intel that M1 solves are mostly of benefit to laptops - low power consumption and good integrated graphics are not things that are all that problematic on the desktop where you don't have the same power and size constraints.

An Intel iMac will be a decent machine and will remain good for many years to come - plus there is no M1 equivalent right now, so if you want that form factor, it's the only game in town.

Personally I would go for a Mac Mini for the flexibility of monitor choice and possible re-purposing later on as a server or HTPC. My 2012 Mini still runs very nicely for HTPC and light server use.
 
My 2020 iMac has been one of the better Apple products I've owned. I got it last Summer on launch day. The M1 stuff is fun, but my workflow is keeping me on intel for now. I think my first apple silicon product will be a MacBook Pro to replace my 2017 mbp, and probably not until it's OLED or MiniLed, and a new form factor. While I'm sure this impending apple silicon iMac will be a powerhouse, but my 2020 iMac is already a powerhouse, and it was available when I needed it (last year).
 
Well it arrived a couple of days ago. Busy work days so only been installing software and configuring. Have not got around to ordering a RAM upgrade yet. Very happy with the purchase. Have not heard the fan yet. Sure I am looking forward to an M1 based new laptop in a year or 2. At the risk of famous last words I just don't buy this only 2 years OS support FUD mindset.

My only frustration at the moment is do I don't I fork out the eye watering amount for the 2 apple cables to use the 2011 iMac in Target display mode. It would be great to have 2 beautiful 27inch screens side by side. Trouble is I can get no comfort it will for certain work.
 
My only frustration at the moment is do I don't I fork out the eye watering amount for the 2 apple cables to use the 2011 iMac in Target display mode. It would be great to have 2 beautiful 27inch screens side by side. Trouble is I can get no comfort it will for certain work.

Considering it would only be 2560x1440 I would spend the money on a decent display instead. I guess it really depends on what you would use it for?
 
The Power Mac G5 Quad started shipping in November 2005. The last version of macOS it could run shipped in October 2007, less than two years later.

In more recent years, the iPhone 5C shipped in September 2013. The last version of iOS to support it was released in September 2016, just three years later.

These both had notoriously short periods of support due to platform shifts. The Mac is currently in a platform shift.

I‘ll set an alert to meet back here in three years.

It's very early in its platform shift. Right now they only have one mobile focused CPU, nothing desktop grade.
 
Arctic Moose wrote:
"I am using my Canon 5D instead. It is bulky and not very practical, but the results are so much better."

Could you tell us what additional software you're using with the Canon?
 
Arctic Moose wrote:
"I am using my Canon 5D instead. It is bulky and not very practical, but the results are so much better."

Could you tell us what additional software you're using with the Canon?
Just Canon EOS Webcam Utility. The camera shows up like any other camera in the source selector for FaceTime, Skype or whatever.


The 5D is not officially supported, but works fine.
 
Apple will support Intel based Macs for at least another 4-5 years. They wouldn’t unveil a really strong 2020 iMac, only to not support those buyers 2 years later.
There will be buyers for used Intel machines for years to come, but just not as strong as Silicon machines. As long as you understand that, then there is nothing wrong with buying one.
 
Apple will support Intel based Macs for at least another 4-5 years. They wouldn’t unveil a really strong 2020 iMac, only to not support those buyers 2 years later.
There will be buyers for used Intel machines for years to come, but just not as strong as Silicon machines. As long as you understand that, then there is nothing wrong with buying one.
Support is a subjective term. My 2010 Mac Pro is still "supported" even though it's been EOL'd for years. That support is limited to OS security updates and yes, you can still take it in for repair... but the reality is, it's stuck in time.

Some people see support as being able to run the newest OS et al... if you have no qualms with say, running Mojave for all perpetuity and stick with software that also supports that OS for all perpetuity... then yes, buying an INTEL anything doesn't matter. But if you are one of those types that like new toys... want the latest software... buying into architecture that is clearly not going to be the platform going forward is a bad idea.

Lest we forget, the iMac Pro was released with zero intention of actually running the line for any real length of time. It was purely a stop gap system to span a few months or years until their real system was ready. At this juncture, any INTEL system still being sold by Apple is purely being done so as a stop gap. Their direction is clear. It's ARM going forward. And just as they left PPC behind when the INTELs were introduced, so shall it be with the ARM transition.

Make no mistakes, INTEL anything (Mac) is essentially EOL hardware.
 
Support is a subjective term. My 2010 Mac Pro is still "supported" even though it's been EOL'd for years. That support is limited to OS security updates and yes, you can still take it in for repair... but the reality is, it's stuck in time.

Some people see support as being able to run the newest OS et al... if you have no qualms with say, running Mojave for all perpetuity and stick with software that also supports that OS for all perpetuity... then yes, buying an INTEL anything doesn't matter. But if you are one of those types that like new toys... want the latest software... buying into architecture that is clearly not going to be the platform going forward is a bad idea.

Lest we forget, the iMac Pro was released with zero intention of actually running the line for any real length of time. It was purely a stop gap system to span a few months or years until their real system was ready. At this juncture, any INTEL system still being sold by Apple is purely being done so as a stop gap. Their direction is clear. It's ARM going forward. And just as they left PPC behind when the INTELs were introduced, so shall it be with the ARM transition.

Make no mistakes, INTEL anything (Mac) is essentially EOL hardware.
You’re totally right! When I say supported, I mean the latest OS should function on Intel chips for multiple years to come.

Another thought about that though, will MacOS be that much better when Apple does stop supporting Intel?
 
I see your point but Intel in 2011 is not as intel today. Core 2 duos/early i's were great processors and they can be used still today (writing this from my almost 13-yo iMac... )

But recent intel processors just s***. I got an i5 2019 Air last year from my work, and it's by far the worst Apple machine that i never had. It's terribly slow, don't try to have a zoom call while opening your IDE, for example. Dual screen is also a pain, takes more than 1 minute to just come back from sleep and be responsive. Moreover, I still use my iMac to mix/produce music and sometimes that the machine is dying, I switch to the Air and simply it dies as well, even with a processor 12 years ahead and more RAM...

It's a shame that Apple had to release that and I really understand why they move away from them.
 
I see your point but Intel in 2011 is not as intel today. Core 2 duos/early i's were great processors and they can be used still today (writing this from my almost 13-yo iMac... )

But recent intel processors just s***. I got an i5 2019 Air last year from my work, and it's by far the worst Apple machine that i never had. It's terribly slow, don't try to have a zoom call while opening your IDE, for example. Dual screen is also a pain, takes more than 1 minute to just come back from sleep and be responsive. Moreover, I still use my iMac to mix/produce music and sometimes that the machine is dying, I switch to the Air and simply it dies as well, even with a processor 12 years ahead and more RAM...

It's a shame that Apple had to release that and I really understand why they move away from them.
Your timing was unfortunate, because the 2018/2019 Macbook Air used an extremely low power processor (7W) to eke out battery life at the expense of performance, actually a downgrade from previous years. Anyone who wanted any actual performance from a macbook in those years had to get a Macbook Pro, which was way better.
 
Not everyone wants or needs Ferrari performance. Granted if you are young then having the latest and fastest tends to be a thing. However, some of us are quite content with slower reliable and stable. Apple are still going to support Intel Mac's for years to come, of that I have no doubt. Staying with Intel is not a negative.
 
Not everyone wants or needs Ferrari performance. Granted if you are young then having the latest and fastest tends to be a thing. However, some of us are quite content with slower reliable and stable. Apple are still going to support Intel Mac's for years to come, of that I have no doubt. Staying with Intel is not a negative.
Some of us are slower reliable and stable...

The OP is a man who knows his mind, and at the moment I see no reason my Intel iMac should not be on my desk for the foreseeable future.
 
I'm the same and sticking with my Intel Mac. I don't see a reason to sell your intel Mac and lose a bunch of money over upgrading to the 1st gen M1 Mac. Which is considered entry level, which also has a lot of issues with software/hardware compatibilities, and to save you 1 to 2 minutes in certain tasks. Go make a cup of coffee or go outside get some fresh air while waiting those couple minutes. I also didn't want to lose the beautiful 5k display and I still shoot with older Canon cameras (easier codecs to edit). Until I upgrade my cameras then I'll look into the M1X. IMO high spec'd intel mac's are still no slouch and you don't always need to upgrade to the latest and greatest...Don't get too caught up into the Gear and just make the best of what you have today.
 
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I have been doing a lot of reading the last few days on this decision. My early 2011 27inch iMac is indestructible. It has a small RAM upgrade (done more years ago than I can remember) to 12GB and for the last few years I have been running the OS off an SSD plugged into a USB port. Last week I had two problems - neither to do with the resilience of the beast. I could not install Office 365 on High Sierra. Second work have switched some meetings from Skype to Zoom, and I get no video with Zoom (maybe a driver issue but not one I could easily fix).

I have been working from home for a year, will do so for a few months more, and when we go back likely to be allowed to still wfh 2 days a week. The iMac format: large 27inch screen, reliable web cam and mic (that is at head level - I am dislike the lap top low camera pointing up thing) is top as far as I am concerned for wfh set up. Performance wise this old iMac (with an SSD and more RAM) was fine for this use case.

I spent a long time looking at the M1s. I am sure they are "the future" but none of them worked for me. The mini does not have the web cam. The Macbook Pro is not good value compared to the Air. The Air is the best of the bunch - but for now I still have some use to squeeze out of my early 2015 Air. It makes far more sense to replace the Air in a year or two with a 2nd or 3rd generation M1.

My iMac is one of my most loved computers, and after 10 years of daily use I really don't want to not be in-front of an iMac for a big chuck of my screen time.

Yesterday Amazon dropped the price of the base 2020 27inch to £1400 from £1799 that is a 22% saving (today it is back up to £1648). That was too good an offer to miss. My list of reasons for sticking to Intel:

1) The iMac as in Intel build has been tuned for years.
2) The only upgrade I want on a Mac is the put more RAM in. This is the only Mac I can do this on. BTW I hear the arguments that the RAM dynamic will change with the M1s - so this upgradability is maybe not a concern for the future.
3) My windows box is my main 3D PC, but I like to be able to use the iMac when the PC is stuck doing some rendering or simulation. The apps I use are mostly going to be emulated on M1 for sometime to come (Houdini, Modo, Blender, Syntheyes, Nuke, Maya, Substance for example)
4) I think the chance of only 1 or 2 years support for intel Macs to be very small - there are just too many of them out there. Yes they will stop selling them. I don't think the PowerPC comparisons are helpful - that was a long time ago and I am sure there were orders of magnitude less PowerPCs in the world than Intel (speculation). I don't expect hardware to be supported for ever. The 5 - 7 year window people refer to for Mac support I think is fine, and I have a high degree of confidence that is what Intel Macs will get. Plus the apps I use need to run on PCs so the likelyhood that I can only run an old version of an App in a few years time on a still supported Intel Macs is very unlikely. Indeed it is more likely some will be forever emulated.

So I am discounting all the don't buy an Intel Mac noise, and am very much looking forward to going from a 2011 to a 2020 iMac.
Well, - I just scored myself an “as-new” iMac Pro with full AppleCare+ equipped with a Vega64 for about half the original sales price one year ago, for 3K. I still have my sweet tower in my sig. I am fully aware that new ASoC are around the corner, but made the desition to stay with intel, and I will tell you why it makes sense.
1. I always have bootcamp and I love to have macs that are capable to that. In my spare time do some gaming on Steam, they run great on Windows 10. On top of that, I run CAD programs to run my 3D printer, because I am a Maker. Fo me, it is a complete No-Go to purchase a new Mac that can’t run Win10.
Sorry- Apple.
2. Over the years, I have added great accessories that have been expensive such as two Apple Cinema Displays that are still outstanding and are valuable to me. They have the same design language and they will not work on the new stuff But they will be outstanding on the iMac Pro. Imagine a nice All-Apple 3 screen setup with an iMac Pro in the middle.
Sorry again Apple, your new still will not fly with me.
3. I love Mac OS as an enthusiast. I don’t earn money with my setup, it’s hobby only. I absolutely don’t need the newest OSX and I am usually very happy to run an older OSX with two or three generations older.
Sorry again Apple, your incremental OSX changes are too small to justify a constant hardware upgrade.
4. I value low noise computers and hardware that is designed to run for decades or longer. Reliability is very important to me. As a professional product manager, I am aware of the value of last editions. Folks, let’s be honest here, the iMac has been refined for a full decade now. The current iMac as well as the iMac Pro is the result of a decade long refinement and ironing out flaws. This is what I want. Compared to that, with the Apple silicone you get First Gen tech (!) It will take Apple years and years to iron out flaws. Sorry again Apple, I am not your Beta tester.
5. Speed. Ok the new stuff will be faster. You might render up to 30% faster. But how does this translate into everydays reality. Do you really think, I will loose a customer, because my render speed has been 2 minute and 23 second longer in theoretical benchmarks? On which planet do you live?
6. Don’t buy into the hype train and don’t get psychological manipulated. In fact, in my world of products, new products such as cars and airplanes often are worse than older models that have been designed for longevity and durability.
There is a hazardous trend in many industries that OEMs design their products with controlled product obsolescenc. The OEM want a shorter product live cycle. That’s also the reason why legally “The right to repair” is heavily under fire.


This will not fly with me. So for everybody that is out for the new stuff, beware!
You have to know how the game is played. With new stuff, you will enter a super tight and controlled walled garden with no escape. You will be at the mercy of Apple.
 
I have added great accessories that have been expensive such as two Apple Cinema Displays that are still outstanding and are valuable to me. They have the same design language and they will not work on the new stuff But they will be outstanding on the iMac Pro.

Why do you say that? I've seen several examples of people successfully running dual-link DVI-D displays on Apple Silicon.

Imagine a nice All-Apple 3 screen setup with an iMac Pro in the middle.

I can imagine it.

One very nice 27" 5120x2880 display in the middle, flanked by two cruddy headache-inducing 30" 2560x1600 displays, that also do not have the same design language.

Ugh.

5. Speed. Ok the new stuff will be faster.

And quieter. With batteries that last much longer.

So for everybody that is out for the new stuff, beware!
You have to know how the game is played. With new stuff, you will enter a super tight and controlled walled garden with no escape. You will be at the mercy of Apple.

Looks to me like you're the one dealing in FUD here.
 
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I just pulled the trigger on the 10-core, 5700XT BECAUSE I’m afraid it will be the last Intel based iMac.

As a home/hobby user I’ve enjoyed the convenience of high-end Windows gaming on my iMacs since the dawn of boot camp. And programming in both Windows and macOS environments. I also love tinkering with other OSs in VMs (which is better on a Mac IMO...from 8-thread i7 to 20-thread i9! *drool*).

The Mac side is my daily driver, I prefer using macOS, and I feel better keeping my personal and financial data on a Mac than Windows. All that on the same computer is fun for me.

I know one day I’ll convert to the new architecture, but not for a while yet. My interests are pretty dependent on the intel chips for now. Probably if they start releasing AAA games on the Apple silicon, I’ll be more comfortable moving over to it sooner.
 
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