I had asked an Apple Store genius this a while back and he had no idea what I was talking about.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
NAB 2012 and the Mac Pro
- Thread starter 24Frames
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I had asked an Apple Store genius this a while back and he had no idea what I was talking about.
Ehhh. It's one of those programs that you can tell people have used for years and know like the back of their hands.
If you're a new comer used to other software like Premiere and FCP7/FCPX, it's a frustrating experience for not a tremendous amount of gain.
I work in a multi editor environment (10-15 editors, 3 Assistants, 10 Producers) Avid is the only way to go in this environment.
FCP7 is a pain in the ass to share projects with, constantly copying each others projects etc
Not sure about premiere but nobody uses it in TV, After effects and Photoshop get used often though
I personally like the way FCPx is shaping up, but i highly doubt we'll use it for the work we do.
Commercials and Music Video clips i can see the benefits down the track
hurry up new MacPros
FCP7 is a pain in the ass to share projects with, constantly copying each others projects etc
Not sure about premiere but nobody uses it in TV, After effects and Photoshop get used often though
I personally like the way FCPx is shaping up, but i highly doubt we'll use it for the work we do.
Commercials and Music Video clips i can see the benefits down the track
hurry up new MacPros
I am afraid that most of these guys are there to answer simple questions and take your money. They are not experts and by simply taking an hour to check out the apple store online you'll know just as much as they do about the current Mac line-up. You're not going to get "geniuses" working on the sales floor.
Future? Sorry but nVidia and even AMD are here and now and have been supported for a while now (just not on Apple's platforms), same with PCI-e 3.0.
GPUs of the future will just reinforce the current direction, but that direction started a few years ago - this isn't "New".
Kepler ... what about it? Apple have ignored many technology developments over the past 2 years ... including Xeon updates and significant motherboard updates.
You've got to be kidding? You must work for Apple because that sounds exactly like party lines. I typically don't operate with "the vast majority of the Windows PC workstation vendors" (assuming you mean Dell, HP, others) and build custom workstations and upgrade them as important technology becomes available. Dell, HP, others, typically don't put in the time and effort to run CPUs 25-33% above their rated specifications. At a workstation level that 25-33% adds up quickly by reducing deliverable time and/or increasing quality. Apple can't do this (probably why they aren't doing MacPros any more) while tied to Intel motherboards not to mention don't want to put in the effort R&D to obtain stability and reliability (and no the workstation doesn't have to sound like it's ready for takeoff either). The quality and stability of an ASUS motherboards (and others like Gigabyte, etc.) is much better than Intel. Intel's motherboards consistently rate low in performance and stability and missing features -- the same motherboards Apple are tied to.
For the dual processor (12 core), the Xeon X5670 2.93Ghz (Westmere-EP) was released March 10th, 2010 ... sooooo ... that's OVER 2 years. Take a look here and you can see a LONG list of Xeon's released between March 10th and now.
This is so silly I just don't know where to start ... slowing down?? The industry has NEVER and will NEVER slow down. It's only slowing down at Apple, not the rest of the world. Anyway, like I said earlier, the slower your workstation computational power, the slower your deliverable and/or lower quality (take your pick). Waiting for Apple to deem "worthy" updates isn't going to help anyone get work done now. That's the bottom line, and that's why Apple's sales numbers for MacPro are dismal (at best).
I don't blame Apple for not wanting to put much effort into the MacPro ... they frankly just can't compete in terms of performance and price. It's probably a smart decision for them to EOL the MacPro ... the industry the MacPro aims at, just can't afford to play the "Waiting game". And I don't need to speed anything up, it's already done, just not with Apple.
Rob
In all fairness, the updates haven't been very consequential to the Mac Pro. For the processors that could go in the mac pro most of them have been very expensive, and could only replace the X5670 or W3690, for a price. And on the other spectrum many of them are low power. The other updates are the E7s and E3s. E3s aren't really any better than an i7 accept they support ECC memory, and the E7 are very expensive and are more for 4-8 CPU systems.
You seem unreasonably angry about this.
Tuesdays and Thursdays are usually Apple's update days.
Given that NAB just started, and it's neither Tuesday or Thursday, I don't think we've at all reached "decreasing likelihood" yet.
You guys/gals still waiting for the vapor hardware called a MacPro ... Good luck with that.Funny, I've heard Jan 2012 we'll see new MacPro, then it was end of March, then it was NAB 2012, now it's late April ... you guys are cracking me up!
Apple has no booth at NAB, but they are there walking around?? I can only imagine they are there just to confirm "there is no big money to be made in this market".
I've moved on to Windows 7 and all the hardware that works with it, Adobe CS6, Cinema4D, etc. etc. Going forward in the future, GPU support is the key (not more CPUs) ... see here CS6 CUDA
I need a fast workstation. Render farms are pretty much only needed on final composition ... the faster the workstation the less likely I need to do a full high quality render (especially in apps like Cinema4D with it's preview sectional).
I need to see here and now, not two days later after a render farm is done -- "oh wait I missed something, let me fix it and wait another 2 days" -- that workflow just doesn't work and will put ya out of business quickly.
Apple's 2+ year release strategy isn't something anyone in the industry would want ... who would want that?? Workstations need to be UP TO DATE or be left behind ... it's that simple. It's been hugely convenient to just quickly slap some output on a USB 3.0 stick and take to another location/client. Is it as fast as Thunderbolt, no, but it's here and now of my workstation and used almost daily.
I'm boggled as to why some are still clinging to the "hope" Apple will eventually deliver on hardware and software -- even if the do, who the heck wants to live with those feature handicapped products and hardware release schedules?? Move on, nobody serious wants FCPX nor ridiculous MacPro update schedules. But I suppose in the crowded world of video/composition, I should suggest you keep hanging on to Apple - more projects for me to digest
Apple isn't "loyal to you" so there is no reason to be "loyal to Apple" -- I believe this sentiment was express by an ex-Shake software engineer after Apple bought them.
best post i have read in a long time! amen.
You'll excuse my pessimism, but as moving goal posts go, i've heard so many on an updated MP launch date , that even the plausible ones seem ridiculous to wish for lol!
You'll excuse my pessimism, but as moving goal posts go, i've heard so many on an updated MP launch date , that even the plausible ones seem ridiculous to wish for lol!
Isn't that the truth!
Maybe you got an Apple Store dunce!
The BBC bought 900 seats of Pr last year!
One interesting thing though is that if you look at the performance on real world applications Moore's law (approximating to a doubling in performance every 18 months) no longer holds. In the last 2 years processing power has increased by around 50%. So we go from 6-Cores to 8-Cores with about 25% more performance at the same clock speeds (although those have dropped a bit). So these machines would be expected to last a while.
It's more than just CPU ... motherboards improve rather dramatically, especially some of the more recent EFI based motherboards. And not just with features like USB 3.0 or PCI-e 3.0 but quad channel RAM support and more ... it's the combination that helps the CPU utilize it's potential.
Not sure why you think I'm angry? Not in agreement doesn't = anger. The folks that "might" have some anger towards Apple's decision process are the ones that stay loyal to Apple and only Apple ... but again, don't know if that's anger or more likely just disappointment from the loyal Apple customers.
I suppose you could say I'm somewhat disappointed in Apple's lack luster interest in this market segment, but when you have iGadgets making them tons of money I can see why they're in no rush to help a rather small "loyal" set of customers.
But again, who knows, maybe Apple will eventually release another MacPro. For me, it really doesn't matter ... it's not that they will release a MacPro that's important, it's the lack of regular updates that "was" the problem. When I'm presented with a problem, I look for alternate solutions and move on (as I have done).
It is a little funny to see folks still hanging on ... just curious why would Apple wait to the end of NAB 2012 to reveal their plans for a "new" MacPro? That would make NO sense to me at any level.
And again, because I'm pointing out some of Apple's bad decisions, doesn't imply I have anger ... I just deal in problems and solutions. I still have my iMac and Mac minis (just dumped the MacPros) as well as my custom Win7 workstations ... staying diverse is a good place to be.
Rob
"Flexible system expansion"
The more I keep reading from NAB, the more I believe Apple is going in a different direction than Mac Pro. Maybe it is something completely new. Maybe they are moving into a modular type pro desktop. Maybe a PRO type iMac, with 4 Thunderbolt's? who knows, but just look at the NAB release, they all point to Thunderbolt devices with demos with Mac book pros. None demo on a Mac Pro.
http://www.videoguys.com/blog/PL/0xd842138d56cd671288de2b263b4482bb.aspx
http://www.mlogic.com/mlink
"daisy-chain multiple devices for flexible system expansion"
http://tonacitran.com/mlogic-mlink-r-red-rocket-thunderbolt/
They demo this on a Mac Air
http://www.cdrlabs.com/News/g-technology-ships-8tb-g-raid-with-thunderbolt-technology.html
Demo on Mac BookPro
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/to...-bring-lto-archival-to-thunderbolt-2012-04-16
With the increased performance and storage capacities provided by today's Apple Mac laptops, iMacs, and Mac Mini systems, users have been replacing larger Mac Pro desktop systems for day-to-day editing and field operations.
The more I keep reading from NAB, the more I believe Apple is going in a different direction than Mac Pro. Maybe it is something completely new. Maybe they are moving into a modular type pro desktop. Maybe a PRO type iMac, with 4 Thunderbolt's? who knows, but just look at the NAB release, they all point to Thunderbolt devices with demos with Mac book pros. None demo on a Mac Pro.
http://www.videoguys.com/blog/PL/0xd842138d56cd671288de2b263b4482bb.aspx
http://www.mlogic.com/mlink
"daisy-chain multiple devices for flexible system expansion"
http://tonacitran.com/mlogic-mlink-r-red-rocket-thunderbolt/
They demo this on a Mac Air
http://www.cdrlabs.com/News/g-technology-ships-8tb-g-raid-with-thunderbolt-technology.html
Demo on Mac BookPro
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/to...-bring-lto-archival-to-thunderbolt-2012-04-16
With the increased performance and storage capacities provided by today's Apple Mac laptops, iMacs, and Mac Mini systems, users have been replacing larger Mac Pro desktop systems for day-to-day editing and field operations.
Last edited:
Finally, someone making sense here
iMac and/or even Laptops connected via Thunderbolt to distribute processing load.
MacPro (12 core) for video editing + 3 monitors is at least $12K.
i7 on iMac with 6 cores (more RAM and SSD) for around $3000 -- you get 3 monitor workstation of iMacs with equivalent of 12-18 cores all connected via Thunderbolt for $3K less than a 12 core MacPro. Who knows, maybe Apple will call it the "new" MacPro or will simply just call it the iMacPro ... either way, it'll certainly fall in line with Apple's current philosophy of "cost less", "does a little less", but "sells more" (ala FCPX).
Finally, someone making sense here
either way, it'll certainly fall in line with Apple's current philosophy of "cost less", "does a little less", but "sells more" (ala FCPX).
"does a little less" I agree, but I would say, "allow more integration of third party developers". Let Black Magic, Aja, Sonnet, Mlogic do more heavy lifting.
Exactly, certainly more options. But with Thunderbolt and chained iMacs and/or laptops and configured to work in "Performance mode" (similar to a RAID 0 setup) or "redundancy mode" (similar to a RAID 1 setup) ... but rather than redundant hard drives we've got redundant CPU/RAM/video as well.
1. Redundant - if you have a failure in one of your chained iMac or Laptops you aren't down and out and your project remains fully functional (just working a little slower until you have time to replace the failed component)
2. Flexible - can keep expanding but in "partial" increments (less costly) to meet whatever the demands are.
Apple pretty much have all this already ... It's more than just a server farm, it's a workstation that can expand or shrink to meet demands ... the only downside is that Apple will need to make QMaster a HELL of a lot better than it currently is (QMaster is a configuration nightmare and flakey at best case).
It should be implemented in such a way that applications just see it as more RAM, more Video, and more CPUs (most current applications are already multi-CPU aware - except FCP7) they don't need to add specific support to use this "Chained workstation" setup. Should be as simple as plug the Thunderbolt cable into another iMac or Laptop and viola, your prompted if you want to use the computer as a "Combined" resource and perhaps given options on how you want it used as (redundant, performance, etc.).
Now that would be Apple thinking ahead, but sadly, I honestly don't think Apple would do this at the OS level ... if it does happen, most likely would be 3rd party.
I think people here have unrealistic expectations of what Thunderbolt can do. It's fast for file transfers, but slow for anything processing related. Too slow for a GPU, and way way way too slow for putting more CPUs at the other end.
If the Mac Pro does go, you're not at all going to see some sort of multicore extender box appear at this point in time. It's just simply technically not at all possible.
Hard to tell if all this Thunderbolt stuff is a vote of no confidence in the Mac Pro. I'm still seeing a lot of PCI-E new products too.
If the Mac Pro does go, you're not at all going to see some sort of multicore extender box appear at this point in time. It's just simply technically not at all possible.
Hard to tell if all this Thunderbolt stuff is a vote of no confidence in the Mac Pro. I'm still seeing a lot of PCI-E new products too.
I've actually never seen it run, i've either used a separate macro with storage attached and everything running off high speed ethernet or we've run Avid Isis systems, which work well with FCP7.
Final Cut Server no longer exists. Certainly was never updated for FCPX.
These guys seem to think there is a market for video editing peripherals based on PCIe.
http://www.fusionio.com/platforms/iofx/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/04/12/fusion_io_iofx/